I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
VERY experienced PC user.

In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window

The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
also doesn't work.

Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
instructions for using Task Manager.

Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.

Thanks.

"PRIVATE" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:o44ve594tg21dgi29gb4d28fom4d1rdriv@4ax.com...
>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
> VERY experienced PC user.
>
> In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
> running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
> the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>
> The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
> also doesn't work.
>
> Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
> Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
> instructions for using Task Manager.
>
> Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>
> Thanks.

Unexplained behaviour of Windows is in the vast majority of cases explained
by interference from malware or viruses. Time to give your system a full
check-up, e.g. via an on-line scan from here: www.antivirus.com. Look for
the "House Call" button.

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:13:20 -0800, PRIVATE <none@none.com> wrote:

>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>VERY experienced PC user.
>
>In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>
>The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>also doesn't work.
>
>Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>instructions for using Task Manager.
>
>Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>
>Thanks.

"In the last few days" - installed any new program(s) ?

Which application are you trying to close? Perhaps try looking up help for
that specific application if there is a specific application.
Do you have an anti-virus/anti-spyware program loaded and is it up to date?
Can you open and close other applications while that one is frozen/not
repsonsive?
Does your machine become unstable or slow?
Are there any processes running in your task manager which are using your
CPU totally?
What machine do you have?


"PRIVATE" wrote:

> I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
> VERY experienced PC user.
>
> In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
> running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
> the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>
> The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
> also doesn't work.
>
> Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
> Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
> instructions for using Task Manager.
>
> Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>
> Thanks.
> .
>

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:56:48 +0000, Jim <bojimbo261@aol.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:13:20 -0800, PRIVATE <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>>VERY experienced PC user.
>>
>>In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>>running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>>the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>>
>>The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>>also doesn't work.
>>
>>Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>>Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>>instructions for using Task Manager.
>>
>>Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>"In the last few days" - installed any new program(s) ?

No.

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:40:51 +0100, "Pegasus [MVP]"
<news@microsoft.com> wrote:

>
>"PRIVATE" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>news:o44ve594tg21dgi29gb4d28fom4d1rdriv@4ax.com.. .
>>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>> VERY experienced PC user.
>>
>> In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>> running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>> the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>>
>> The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>> also doesn't work.
>>
>> Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>> Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>> instructions for using Task Manager.
>>
>> Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>Unexplained behaviour of Windows is in the vast majority of cases explained
>by interference from malware or viruses. Time to give your system a full
>check-up, e.g. via an on-line scan from here: www.antivirus.com. Look for
>the "House Call" button.

I have Norton Internet Security 2009 installed, with definitions up to
date. I just did a full system scan. No issues.

Note that the problems only occur after the system has been sitting
idle for 3-4 hours. Are there memory leak issues? Is there any way
to determine that? I would have no problem installing and using a
sysinternals tool if you recommended that course of action.

x509

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:56:48 +0000, Jim <bojimbo261@aol.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:13:20 -0800, PRIVATE <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>>VERY experienced PC user.
>>
>>In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>>running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>>the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>>
>>The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>>also doesn't work.
>>
>>Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>>Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>>instructions for using Task Manager.
>>
>>Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>>
>>Thanks.
>
>"In the last few days" - installed any new program(s) ?

Nope!

x509

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:29:02 -0800, Kemptonian
<Kemptonian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Which application are you trying to close?

Explorer windows, either with or without folders.

Outlook 2003

Word 2003

News Agent 3 (mature, non-buggy newsgroup reader application).

FireFox 3.5

Quicken 2009

Task Manager

Windows XP itself. Moving the mouse over the START button results in
an hourglass. Moving the mouse away from the START button causes the
hourglass changing back to the normal cursor arrow.

Windows XP itself doesn't restart properly after hibernation. I fixed
that problem by disabling hibernation.

These apps normally shut down right away. It's only after the system
has been idle for 3-4 hours that these problems occur.

Normally, if I have a problem, e.g. with FireFox, I just use Task
Manager to kill the application and there is no issue. I know I have
a problem when an app won't end, and when I try to end that process
with Task Manager, I get "not responsive" messages.

> Perhaps try looking up help for
>that specific application if there is a specific application.
>Do you have an anti-virus/anti-spyware program loaded and is it up to date?

Yes. Norton Internet Security 2009. Plus Webroot Spy Sweeper.

>Can you open and close other applications while that one is frozen/not
>repsonsive?

Open, yes, but slowly. If one application can't close, then all
applications become non-responsive when I try to close them. They may
do some shutdown actions, but the "final action" of actually ending
the application. For example, News Agent will "purge folders," since
that is one of the actions selected for when the application ends, but
News Agent will remain open.


>Does your machine become unstable or slow?

Even when the various apps can't close, the only real "slowness" I've
observed is when I move the cursor over the START button, per above.

>Are there any processes running in your task manager which are using your
>CPU totally?

No, that was one of the first things I checked with Task Manager.

>What machine do you have?

A self-built system based around dual AMD Athlon CPUs, 3 GB of memory,
with SATA drives controlled by Adaptec adapters. Slow by today's
standards, and I am planning to replace it some time in the next few
months with a system with a quadcore CPU and Windows 7 64
Professional or Ultimate.

x509


>
>
>"PRIVATE" wrote:
>
>> I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>> VERY experienced PC user.
>>
>> In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>> running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>> the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>>
>> The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>> also doesn't work.
>>
>> Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>> Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>> instructions for using Task Manager.
>>
>> Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> .
>>

"Andrew Hamilton" <Ahamilton90900******.com> wrote in message
news:7kq0f5hdqpi3cg8bnji2mhklmvit7fijt2@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 08:40:51 +0100, "Pegasus [MVP]"
> <news@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"PRIVATE" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>news:o44ve594tg21dgi29gb4d28fom4d1rdriv@4ax.com. ..
>>>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>>> VERY experienced PC user.
>>>
>>> In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>>> running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>>> the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>>>
>>> The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>>> also doesn't work.
>>>
>>> Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>>> Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>>> instructions for using Task Manager.
>>>
>>> Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>
>>Unexplained behaviour of Windows is in the vast majority of cases
>>explained
>>by interference from malware or viruses. Time to give your system a full
>>check-up, e.g. via an on-line scan from here: www.antivirus.com. Look for
>>the "House Call" button.
>
> I have Norton Internet Security 2009 installed, with definitions up to
> date. I just did a full system scan. No issues.
>
> Note that the problems only occur after the system has been sitting
> idle for 3-4 hours. Are there memory leak issues? Is there any way
> to determine that? I would have no problem installing and using a
> sysinternals tool if you recommended that course of action.
>
> x509

About virus scanning: I suggest you get a second opinion by doing a free
system scan via www.antivirus.com. Look for "House Call".

About memory leaks: The Task Manager will tell you. I had a similar issue
the other day where the Paging File Usage (visible under the Performance
tab) climbed from an initial 300 MBytes to 800 or 900 MBytes, causing a
dramatic drop in performance. In my case the problem was caused by
repeatedly putting Windows to sleep and waking it up again.

About killing a task: What happens when you use this command from the
Command Prompt: TaskKill /f /im NameOfApp.exe?

Also: Some virus scanners are very intrusive and both NAV and McAfee score a
frequent mention in this newsgroup. I would physically disconnect the
machine from the Internet, then use msconfig.exe to disable all virus
scanner-related tasks and services. Since your problem occurs after 3-4
hours of idle time, this is an easy test to perform. If you have other
third-party programs that are resident (e.g. certain background backup
programs) then you should disable them too.

"PRIVATE" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:poq0f55d2h6bf0ihi2fuce812bpq3l67ki@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:29:02 -0800, Kemptonian
> <Kemptonian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:


> Yes. Norton Internet Security 2009. Plus Webroot Spy Sweeper.

Private,

If they are both set to scan in real time, disable Spy Sweeper.

Also, Spy Sweeper is notorious for incompatibilities with NIS,
particularly after major updates.

Regards,

Len Agoado
agoado@msn.com

On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:33:51 -0800, Andrew Hamilton
<Ahamilton90900******.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:56:48 +0000, Jim <bojimbo261@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:13:20 -0800, PRIVATE <none@none.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I am running Windows XP SP3 + all MS patches via auto-update. I am a
>>>VERY experienced PC user.
>>>
>>>In the last few days, my system will not shut down once it has been
>>>running for a few hours. Nor can I end an application by "X"-ing on
>>>the window or selecting FILE | END in the application's main window
>>>
>>>The usual way of forcing an application to end via the Task Manager
>>>also doesn't work.
>>>
>>>Searching the web, there are lots of web pages devoted to Windows
>>>Shutdown, but none apparently to Windows End Application beyond basic
>>>instructions for using Task Manager.
>>>
>>>Can anyone help? I hate to have to do a Windows re-install.
>>>
>>>Thanks.
>>
>>"In the last few days" - installed any new program(s) ?
>
>No.

Replying to my own message, I need to clarify. * I * didn't install
any new programs. But, I have Windows Update set to Auto, and I know
that every few days, if not more frequently, Windows installs patches.

Now, back when I worked for an enterprise software vendor, I learned
that customers don't just install vendor patches automatically. Large,
sophisticated customers test each patch before deploying it
themselves, using in-house servers to distribute the patch across
thousands and thousands of desktops.

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 12:08:05 -0800, "Leonard Agoado" <len@mwswire.com>
wrote:

>
>"PRIVATE" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>news:poq0f55d2h6bf0ihi2fuce812bpq3l67ki@4ax.com.. .
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 07:29:02 -0800, Kemptonian
>> <Kemptonian@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Yes. Norton Internet Security 2009. Plus Webroot Spy Sweeper.
>
>Private,
>
> If they are both set to scan in real time, disable Spy Sweeper.
>
> Also, Spy Sweeper is notorious for incompatibilities with NIS,
>particularly after major updates.

This is news to me. I'll reconfig the apps to avoid scanning
conflicts.

Thanks.
>
>Regards,
>
>Len Agoado
>agoado@msn.com
>

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:03:02 +0100, "Pegasus [MVP]"
<news@microsoft.com> wrote:


>>
>> x509
>
>About virus scanning: I suggest you get a second opinion by doing a free
>system scan via www.antivirus.com. Look for "House Call".
>
>About memory leaks: The Task Manager will tell you. I had a similar issue
>the other day where the Paging File Usage (visible under the Performance
>tab) climbed from an initial 300 MBytes to 800 or 900 MBytes, causing a
>dramatic drop in performance. In my case the problem was caused by
>repeatedly putting Windows to sleep and waking it up again.
>
>About killing a task: What happens when you use this command from the
>Command Prompt: TaskKill /f /im NameOfApp.exe?

Didn't know that this command existed, but I'm printing out this
message for reference.


>
>Also: Some virus scanners are very intrusive and both NAV and McAfee score a
>frequent mention in this newsgroup. I would physically disconnect the
>machine from the Internet, then use msconfig.exe to disable all virus
>scanner-related tasks and services. Since your problem occurs after 3-4
>hours of idle time, this is an easy test to perform. If you have other
>third-party programs that are resident (e.g. certain background backup
>programs) then you should disable them too.

Funny thing is, the problem seems to have disappeared on its own. I
left the machine on all night and this morning, there were no
problems. I'm going to repeat this test.

Having said that, I will definitely take your suggestion for a second
opinion.