Why can't I copy WINNT\system32\config\system ?

I know or at least I think that system and system.alt are personal
files that change every day, (more than once a day?) (not for ME
personally but at least for my computer) and they won't be the same on
a friend's computer as they are on another computer, but since my copy
is missing or corrupt, I thought any old valid copy might get me
further along in the boot process.

I tried to use the win2000, windows explorer copy function, but it
said I couldn't copy it. It was reserved or allocated or not shared
-- I forget the term it used.

I had heard last week probably on the win98 newgroup that copying
wasn't as likely to be successful as backing up. So I found and
started NTBACKUP.exe and navigated to the file listed at the top and
in the subject line, and also to system. alt.

And the message said that the copy was successful. But even though
the source file was 4 megabytes, the copied file was about 26K bytes.
And the first screen that said the copy was done said that I had
copied about 934 bytes, and the Report that I then displayed said I
had copied no files at all.

A) What am I doing wrong?

B) Is there any point in trying to get another copy of the System
file?

C) Someday I'll want to copy or backup some other "system file", not
necessarily System. What is it I don't understand about
NTBackup.exe? I navigated to the source file I wanted, then checked
the box, which caused every subdirectory above it that contained it to
be checked. I clicked on Start Backup but nothing much really
happened.

Thanks again.

P.S. Once I figure out how, can I just copy the same file from my own
WinXP computer or will it be significantly different from in win2000?

Thanks again.

If the system hive is corrupt, and assuming you already tried LKG (F8 and
choose Last Known Good), It may be possible to rename the system hive found
in
%systemroot%\system32\config\system
to system.old
then rename
%systemroot%\system32\config\system.alt
to
%systemroot%\system32\config\system

You can also try using the most recent backup found in
%systemroot%\repair\regback

If that fails you haven't much choice but to copy/ use the
original-as-installed system hive from
%systemroot%\repair\system
to
%systemroot%\system32\config\system
You'll need to reinstall the device drivers for any hardware added since the
original OS install.

To start the Recovery Console, start the computer from the Windows 2000
Setup CD or the Windows 2000 Setup floppy disks. If you do not have Setup
floppy disks and your computer cannot start from the Windows 2000 Setup CD,
use another Windows 2000-based computer to create the Setup floppy disks. At
the "Welcome to Setup" screen. Press F10 or R to repair a Windows 2000
installation, and then press C to use the Recovery Console. The Recovery
Console then prompts you for the administrator password. If you do not have
the correct password, Recovery Console does not allow access to the
computer. If an incorrect password is entered three times, the Recovery
Console quits and restarts the computer. Note If the registry is corrupted
or missing or no valid installations are found, the Recovery Console starts
in the root of the startup volume without requiring a password. You cannot
access any folders, but you can carry out commands such as chkdsk, fixboot,
and fixmbr for limited disk repairs. Once the password has been validated,
you have full access to the Recovery Console, but limited access to the hard
disk. You can only access the following folders on your computer: drive
root, %systemroot% or %windir%


If you run Programs|Accessories|System Tools|Backup, then choose ERD, then
if you check the box for "Also backup....", then the reg will also be backed
up to
%systemroot%\repair\RegBack
leaving the
%systemroot%\repair\
directory files intact as original installation.


--

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect


"mm" wrote:
> Why can't I copy WINNT\system32\config\system ?
>
> I know or at least I think that system and system.alt are personal
> files that change every day, (more than once a day?) (not for ME
> personally but at least for my computer) and they won't be the same on
> a friend's computer as they are on another computer, but since my copy
> is missing or corrupt, I thought any old valid copy might get me
> further along in the boot process.
>
> I tried to use the win2000, windows explorer copy function, but it
> said I couldn't copy it. It was reserved or allocated or not shared
> -- I forget the term it used.
>
> I had heard last week probably on the win98 newgroup that copying
> wasn't as likely to be successful as backing up. So I found and
> started NTBACKUP.exe and navigated to the file listed at the top and
> in the subject line, and also to system. alt.
>
> And the message said that the copy was successful. But even though
> the source file was 4 megabytes, the copied file was about 26K bytes.
> And the first screen that said the copy was done said that I had
> copied about 934 bytes, and the Report that I then displayed said I
> had copied no files at all.
>
> A) What am I doing wrong?
>
> B) Is there any point in trying to get another copy of the System
> file?
>
> C) Someday I'll want to copy or backup some other "system file", not
> necessarily System. What is it I don't understand about
> NTBackup.exe? I navigated to the source file I wanted, then checked
> the box, which caused every subdirectory above it that contained it to
> be checked. I clicked on Start Backup but nothing much really
> happened.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> P.S. Once I figure out how, can I just copy the same file from my own
> WinXP computer or will it be significantly different from in win2000?
>
> Thanks again.

mm wrote:
> Why can't I copy WINNT\system32\config\system ?
>
> I know or at least I think that system and system.alt are personal
> files that change every day, (more than once a day?) (not for ME
> personally but at least for my computer) and they won't be the same on
> a friend's computer as they are on another computer, but since my copy
> is missing or corrupt, I thought any old valid copy might get me
> further along in the boot process.
>
> I tried to use the win2000, windows explorer copy function, but it
> said I couldn't copy it. It was reserved or allocated or not shared
> -- I forget the term it used.
>
> I had heard last week probably on the win98 newgroup that copying
> wasn't as likely to be successful as backing up. So I found and
> started NTBACKUP.exe and navigated to the file listed at the top and
> in the subject line, and also to system. alt.
>
> And the message said that the copy was successful. But even though
> the source file was 4 megabytes, the copied file was about 26K bytes.
> And the first screen that said the copy was done said that I had
> copied about 934 bytes, and the Report that I then displayed said I
> had copied no files at all.
>
> A) What am I doing wrong?
>
> B) Is there any point in trying to get another copy of the System
> file?
>
> C) Someday I'll want to copy or backup some other "system file", not
> necessarily System. What is it I don't understand about
> NTBackup.exe? I navigated to the source file I wanted, then checked
> the box, which caused every subdirectory above it that contained it to
> be checked. I clicked on Start Backup but nothing much really
> happened.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> P.S. Once I figure out how, can I just copy the same file from my own
> WinXP computer or will it be significantly different from in win2000?
>
> Thanks again.

The "SYSTEM" file is one of the registry files. The registry keeps track
of a large number of settings, for the system and for application software.
When you use regedit, the stuff in there is stored in five files.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry

One way of dealing with corruption, say corruption which prevents the
system from starting, is

1) Copy some "vanilla" or unused registry files which are stored on
the computer. These registry files will not be suitable for long
term operation of the computer. Their only purpose, is to allow
the computer to boot. So this step is intended to get the computer
running again.

2) Once you're booted, use System Restore, to replace yet again,
the registry files with known good ones stored in a Restore Point.

For that method to work, System Restore would have to be monitoring
the C: drive, during a period where the registry was valid. And as
long as the restore points are not corrupted or anything, then
System Restore should be able to take the system back to a time
when the registry was good. The registry restored in that way,
will have all your settings, except for the stuff lost by way of
taking the system backwards a few days via System Restore.

This article, describes using these "vanilla" registry files to
get up and running again, followed by using System Restore, to
put some real files back in place.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307545

When the OS is running, the registry files are "busy", which
prevents normal operations with respect to those files.
The Recovery Console apparently makes it possible to manipulate
the files, which is why the Microsoft article is using it
during the first step of getting some vanilla files in place.

The key to the procedure in 307545, is whether you have a
working System Restore to fall back on.

Paul

On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 21:07:39 -0600, "Dave Patrick"
<DSPatrick@nospam.gmail.com> wrote:

>If the system hive is corrupt, and assuming you already tried LKG (F8 and
>choose Last Known Good), It may be possible to rename the system hive found

Yes, I tried LKG.

>in
>%systemroot%\system32\config\system
>to system.old
>then rename
>%systemroot%\system32\config\system.alt
>to
>%systemroot%\system32\config\system
>
>You can also try using the most recent backup found in
>%systemroot%\repair\regback
>
>If that fails you haven't much choice but to copy/ use the
>original-as-installed system hive from
>%systemroot%\repair\system
>to
>%systemroot%\system32\config\system
>You'll need to reinstall the device drivers for any hardware added since the
>original OS install.
>
>To start the Recovery Console, start the computer from the Windows 2000
>Setup CD or the Windows 2000 Setup floppy disks. If you do not have Setup
>floppy disks and your computer cannot start from the Windows 2000 Setup CD,
>use another Windows 2000-based computer to create the Setup floppy disks. At

My gosh. This is sort of funny. When I was over at the friend's,
NTBACKUP has Make These Disks as one of the three options at the
start. They had to leave in 15 minutes and I didn't give a passing
thought to the significance of that possibility. So I will go back
there again when they have more time and do what you say.

(They also had three problems with their WIN2000 system which I looked
at during my visit, but none looked simple. Your advice to me here
might help me help them, but I'll post separately if I have quesitons
about that. Next time I'm there I'll have time to write down their
error messages.)

>the "Welcome to Setup" screen. Press F10 or R to repair a Windows 2000
>installation, and then press C to use the Recovery Console. The Recovery
>Console then prompts you for the administrator password. If you do not have
>the correct password, Recovery Console does not allow access to the
>computer. If an incorrect password is entered three times, the Recovery
>Console quits and restarts the computer. Note If the registry is corrupted
>or missing or no valid installations are found, the Recovery Console starts
>in the root of the startup volume without requiring a password. You cannot
>access any folders, but you can carry out commands such as chkdsk, fixboot,
>and fixmbr for limited disk repairs.

Those would be helpful.

> Once the password has been validated,
>you have full access to the Recovery Console, but limited access to the hard
>disk. You can only access the following folders on your computer: drive
>root, %systemroot% or %windir%
>
>
>If you run Programs|Accessories|System Tools|Backup, then choose ERD, then
>if you check the box for "Also backup....", then the reg will also be backed
>up to
>%systemroot%\repair\RegBack
>leaving the
>%systemroot%\repair\
>directory files intact as original installation.

This is a lot of help. Thank you. It will take a while to do all
this stuff of course, if the first part isn't enough to get it
running. Well, I tend to get sluggish if the first effort doesn't
work.

On Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:36:13 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>> Why can't I copy WINNT\system32\config\system ?
>>
>> I know or at least I think that system and system.alt are personal
>> files that change every day, (more than once a day?) (not for ME
>> personally but at least for my computer) and they won't be the same on
>> a friend's computer as they are on another computer, but since my copy
>> is missing or corrupt, I thought any old valid copy might get me
>> further along in the boot process.
>>
>> I tried to use the win2000, windows explorer copy function, but it
>> said I couldn't copy it. It was reserved or allocated or not shared
>> -- I forget the term it used.
>>
>> I had heard last week probably on the win98 newgroup that copying
>> wasn't as likely to be successful as backing up. So I found and
>> started NTBACKUP.exe and navigated to the file listed at the top and
>> in the subject line, and also to system. alt.
>>
>> And the message said that the copy was successful. But even though
>> the source file was 4 megabytes, the copied file was about 26K bytes.
>> And the first screen that said the copy was done said that I had
>> copied about 934 bytes, and the Report that I then displayed said I
>> had copied no files at all.
>>
>> A) What am I doing wrong?
>>
>> B) Is there any point in trying to get another copy of the System
>> file?
>>
>> C) Someday I'll want to copy or backup some other "system file", not
>> necessarily System. What is it I don't understand about
>> NTBackup.exe? I navigated to the source file I wanted, then checked
>> the box, which caused every subdirectory above it that contained it to
>> be checked. I clicked on Start Backup but nothing much really
>> happened.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> P.S. Once I figure out how, can I just copy the same file from my own
>> WinXP computer or will it be significantly different from in win2000?
>>
>> Thanks again.
>
>The "SYSTEM" file is one of the registry files. The registry keeps track

LOL. When my 21 year old friend, who is only somewhat interested in
computers, just enough to get things done, saw what I was trying to do
at his house, he said something about the registry, but I said, No,
that's called system.dat. I'm still living in win98 land, even though
I have XP now. I'll tell him that he was right.

>of a large number of settings, for the system and for application software.
>When you use regedit, the stuff in there is stored in five files.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Registry
>
>One way of dealing with corruption, say corruption which prevents the
>system from starting, is
>
>1) Copy some "vanilla" or unused registry files which are stored on
> the computer. These registry files will not be suitable for long
> term operation of the computer. Their only purpose, is to allow
> the computer to boot. So this step is intended to get the computer
> running again.

So my plan to use their file wasn't stupid after all. That makes me
feel better.

>2) Once you're booted, use System Restore, to replace yet again,
> the registry files with known good ones stored in a Restore Point.
>
>For that method to work, System Restore would have to be monitoring
>the C: drive, during a period where the registry was valid. And as

I don't know if the owner used Restore or not, but I'll find out when
I get this far.

>long as the restore points are not corrupted or anything, then
>System Restore should be able to take the system back to a time
>when the registry was good. The registry restored in that way,
>will have all your settings, except for the stuff lost by way of
>taking the system backwards a few days via System Restore.
>
>This article, describes using these "vanilla" registry files to
>get up and running again, followed by using System Restore, to
>put some real files back in place.
>
>http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307545

Thanks.

>When the OS is running, the registry files are "busy", which
>prevents normal operations with respect to those files.

LOL. They must be really busy to not let me copy them or back them up

>The Recovery Console apparently makes it possible to manipulate
>the files, which is why the Microsoft article is using it
>during the first step of getting some vanilla files in place.
>
>The key to the procedure in 307545, is whether you have a
>working System Restore to fall back on.

I'll read it tomorrow or the next day, but it may be next weekend
before I can spend any real time on this stuff.

> Paul

Thanks a lot.

You're welcome.


--

Regards,

Dave Patrick ....Please no email replies - reply in newsgroup.
Microsoft Certified Professional
Microsoft MVP [Windows]
http://www.microsoft.com/protect


"mm" wrote:
> Yes, I tried LKG.
>
>>in
>>%systemroot%\system32\config\system
>>to system.old
>>then rename
>>%systemroot%\system32\config\system.alt
>>to
>>%systemroot%\system32\config\system
>>
>>You can also try using the most recent backup found in
>>%systemroot%\repair\regback
>>
>>If that fails you haven't much choice but to copy/ use the
>>original-as-installed system hive from
>>%systemroot%\repair\system
>>to
>>%systemroot%\system32\config\system
>>You'll need to reinstall the device drivers for any hardware added since
>>the
>>original OS install.
>>
>>To start the Recovery Console, start the computer from the Windows 2000
>>Setup CD or the Windows 2000 Setup floppy disks. If you do not have Setup
>>floppy disks and your computer cannot start from the Windows 2000 Setup
>>CD,
>>use another Windows 2000-based computer to create the Setup floppy disks.
>>At
>
> My gosh. This is sort of funny. When I was over at the friend's,
> NTBACKUP has Make These Disks as one of the three options at the
> start. They had to leave in 15 minutes and I didn't give a passing
> thought to the significance of that possibility. So I will go back
> there again when they have more time and do what you say.
>
> (They also had three problems with their WIN2000 system which I looked
> at during my visit, but none looked simple. Your advice to me here
> might help me help them, but I'll post separately if I have quesitons
> about that. Next time I'm there I'll have time to write down their
> error messages.)
>
>>the "Welcome to Setup" screen. Press F10 or R to repair a Windows 2000
>>installation, and then press C to use the Recovery Console. The Recovery
>>Console then prompts you for the administrator password. If you do not
>>have
>>the correct password, Recovery Console does not allow access to the
>>computer. If an incorrect password is entered three times, the Recovery
>>Console quits and restarts the computer. Note If the registry is corrupted
>>or missing or no valid installations are found, the Recovery Console
>>starts
>>in the root of the startup volume without requiring a password. You cannot
>>access any folders, but you can carry out commands such as chkdsk,
>>fixboot,
>>and fixmbr for limited disk repairs.
>
> Those would be helpful.
>
>> Once the password has been validated,
>>you have full access to the Recovery Console, but limited access to the
>>hard
>>disk. You can only access the following folders on your computer: drive
>>root, %systemroot% or %windir%
>>
>>
>>If you run Programs|Accessories|System Tools|Backup, then choose ERD, then
>>if you check the box for "Also backup....", then the reg will also be
>>backed
>>up to
>>%systemroot%\repair\RegBack
>>leaving the
>>%systemroot%\repair\
>>directory files intact as original installation.
>
> This is a lot of help. Thank you. It will take a while to do all
> this stuff of course, if the first part isn't enough to get it
> running. Well, I tend to get sluggish if the first effort doesn't
> work.