Apparently you've missed a whole lot of information regarding Tablet PCs,
Jonathan. One of my Tablets is the only computer (among 9 or 10) in our
home with a gig of RAM or more. Tablets certainly do support using an
external monitor and the normal extended desktop of Windows XP Pro for some
of the tasks you're talking about, and it can be accomplished by either
Slate or Convertible model Tablets. You're correct about using different
methods with manipulation of the external monitor screen, but that's because
the external monitors don't support digital recognizers of Tablets (yet!).

You might want to take a look at MaxiVista's software:
http://www.maxivista.com/ which doesn't require a physical connection to an
external monitor, but uses the monitor via your home LAN. Pretty slick,
actually. Tablet PCs are very, very capable of doing everything you can do
on a desktop, if you will take the time to educate yourself. I rarely use
any of my desktops any more, much preferring the comfortable and
capabilities of a Tablet PC.

The only thing I can't do on a Tablet PC is run really high-end games, but
the newer model Tablets are making great headway in that department, too.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Jonathan Sachs" <llm040903@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nskm21dp74a375v8iri334rbq2233raii3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 10:23:02 -0800, "me" <me@discussions.microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> As I consider the potential usefulness to me of a tablet PC, its
>>> greatest single limitation is the apparent lack of tools for
>>> integrating it into my desktop environment.
>>
>>Re integrating into desktop environment. Not sure if I fully understand
>>the
>>issue but is this of any use?
>>
>>http://www.orangeguava.com/
>>http://jkontherun.blogs.com/jkonther.../03/index.html
>
> I don't think so. I do all sorts of things on my desktop computer that
> would be either pointless or dispensable on a mobile tablet PC, such
> as photo editing, printing postage, working on one document while
> referring to several others, and debugging application software. A
> desktop computer offers numerous resources for such activities that
> the tablet does not, notably the ability to support multiple
> high-resolution displays. Unless I could integrate the tablet PC more
> or less seamlessly into the desktop environment, I could not use it
> effectively for desktop work.
>
> (The desktop computer offers several other capabilities that are
> important to me, such as large, fast hard disks, bus slots, and
> multiple USB connectors. I recognize that only a tiny set of power
> users will demand all of these features, but I believe that a large
> proportion of all users would value at least one of them. The 1024x768
> display has disappeared from desktop computers, and increasingly from
> laptops, for a good reason.)
>
> What I envision is a software product that makes the tablet PC look to
> the desktop computer like just another monitor in a multi-monitor
> system, except that the parts of the display that are on the tablet PC
> may be edited with the stylus.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong; I did not pursue either of those links to the
> point of finding all the technical details about the product, but it
> doesn't appear to me that either one is pushing the envelope in that
> direction.
>
> A plain old network connection between the tablet PC and the desktop
> is the closest approach to what I need that I have seen, but it's not
> very close. To take a very simple example, suppose I'm editing
> document A on the tablet while I study document B on another display,
> and I want to swap them. I need to be able to drag document A up, drag
> document B down, and continue working. If the two computers are
> networked, I must instead close each document on its respective
> computer (using different pointing devices and gestures), then reopen
> each one on the other computer and relocate the part I was working
> with. A sequence of two gestures is replaced by a series of operations
> that probably takes the better part of the minute. Furthermore, if
> either document was maintaining unsavable state information (such as
> the status of a software development system's debugging session), it
> is lost. In any case my train of thought is broken, and the whole
> process becomes disruptive rather than helpful.
>
> My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

I am a "handwriter" and it's actually because at 49 I going back to
school for another graduate degree and I want to be able to take both
lecture and research notes by hand. My keyboarding skills are marginal.
I don't consider myself particularly creative or geeky, except to the
extent you have to be kind of geeky - otherwise you never would have
heard of a Tablet PC.

me wrote:
> "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>I agree that the mini-Tablet is a good thing and it will surely come.
>>I'd like to quickly dock a mini to a larger screen or key-station for
>>intense reading.
>>
>>For the present though, there is a vast audience of laptop/pc users who
>>could profit from direct/ink input on a larger screen device. These are
>>the professionals and creative types who only occasionally roam from
>>their office, not to mention the larger audience of surfers and readers
>>who want a home or office-based device. This includes the majority of
>>doctors and clinical staff who are not in hospitals doing rounds.
>
>
> I think most people are mobile to some extent, even if its attending
> company meetings or switching between the office and home working.
>
> I don't think its inking that is the best selling point for tablet, I think
> its inking plus not having to carry a full size keyboard around with you ie
> truely portable tablets
>
> If you look at the portable and tablet market as a whole I think its
> segmenting like this
> 1. "On the go" People who want access to email and calendar on the move -
> answer:Blackberry/Smartphone (my guess would be this would be the largest
> market say 30-50 Million people). The trends in this market confirm to me
> that size is important
> 2. "Handwriters" People who want to be able to handwrite at their desk - I
> think this is a tiny market of mainly geeks and creative types. I'd be
> interested if anyone was some statistics for the size of this market. This
> seems to be the market microsoft is targetting and its small in my view. (is
> this segment really more than say 2-3 Million people?)
> 3. "Mobile workers". People who need more power than a Blackberry and need
> windows applications on the move - sales forces, warehouse staff, doctors,
> management consultants, market research people (market research is huge
> untapped market for tablet I believe) and poeple who "hot desk".
>
> The third market I believe is untapped currently. Think of the number of
> people who had filofaxs, how bulky they where, and what we can do now to get
> something far more powerful into their jacket pockets and suitcases/bags

me wrote:
> "Mike Williams [MVP]" wrote:
>
>
>>I agree that the mini-Tablet is a good thing and it will surely come.
>>I'd like to quickly dock a mini to a larger screen or key-station for
>>intense reading.
>>
>>For the present though, there is a vast audience of laptop/pc users who
>>could profit from direct/ink input on a larger screen device. These are
>>the professionals and creative types who only occasionally roam from
>>their office, not to mention the larger audience of surfers and readers
>>who want a home or office-based device. This includes the majority of
>>doctors and clinical staff who are not in hospitals doing rounds.
>
>
> I think most people are mobile to some extent, even if its attending
> company meetings or switching between the office and home working.

Well yes, that's "occasional roaming".

> I don't think its inking that is the best selling point for tablet, I think
> its inking plus not having to carry a full size keyboard around with you ie
> truely portable tablets

I don't think carrying a laptop between home and office is a big deal
for most. However many only want to do it occasionally, and like the
smaller footprint of a laptop when in the office.

3. "Mobile workers". People who need more power than a Blackberry and
need
> windows applications on the move - sales forces, warehouse staff, doctors,
> management consultants, market research people (market research is huge
> untapped market for tablet I believe) and poeple who "hot desk".
>
> The third market I believe is untapped currently. Think of the number of
> people who had filofaxs, how bulky they where, and what we can do now to get
> something far more powerful into their jacket pockets and suitcases/bags

Many of them could be catered to quite well by laptop-sized Tablets ...
if only they knew they existed and how they could be used.

My sense is that one would prepare the spreadsheet or PowerPoint
presentation while docked to a full screen and keyboard and one would use
the documents while "on the go". Other types of software such as browsers,
e-mail and various decision support programs would also be used "on the go.

The attraction of the "on the go" approach will increase as large-area WiFi
becomes more common, making the advantage of having a computer with a full
browser and e-mail greater.

"Chris H." <winxpnews********.com> wrote in message
news:%23$OOpynIFHA.1528@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> How would you work creating a PowerPoint presentation, work on a
> spreadsheet or a Publisher brochure when you can't fully view everything?

Jonathan Sachs wrote:

> As I consider the potential usefulness to me of a tablet PC, its
> greatest single limitation is the apparent lack of tools for
> integrating it into my desktop environment.

Yes, reading, reco, indexing and simple-editing should be available on
non Tablet peers. I would hope that this is available when Longhorn, or
its backported components hit the market.

Although not exclusively a Tablet issue, synchronization of Outlook data
without requiring a server or file-replication would be a great boon.

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:25:54 +1100, "Mike Williams [MVP]"
<mikew@Nospam.mvps.org> wrote:

>Yes, reading, reco, indexing and simple-editing should be available on
>non Tablet peers. I would hope that this is available when Longhorn, or
>its backported components hit the market.

That's good news! I gather I have only about a year to wait?


On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:59:01 -0800, "Chris H." <winxpnews********.com>
wrote:

>Apparently you've missed a whole lot of information regarding Tablet PCs,
>Jonathan....

First: we went over this early in February, and I searched the web at
that time for information about using an external display on a tablet
PC. What I found was not encouraging. Some of the manufacturers' web
sites said it would work, but weren't quite explicit enough to be
pinned down. Others seemed to claim it would work, but turned out to
mean that you could display the _same_ image on the tablet, the
external monitor, were both at once.

I found several unanswered appeals from users who tried to make an
external display work on a tablet PC, but couldn't, and couldn't
figure out why.

In short, I found plenty of warnings that even if multiple displays
work on tablet PCs in theory, they are trouble in a jumbo can. I'm not
going to make any plans that rely on this feature until the kinks are
worked out, if they ever are.

Second: even if the tablet PC will support an external monitor in the
manner I described, that does not address any of the other
shortcomings I mentioned.

For example, is a tablet PC really fast enough to support my software?
I'd will find out when I can afford to buy one for use as a mobile
machine, but I'm very skeptical.

Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes about 15 seconds to start on my desktop
computer, and nearly a minute to start on my laptop. Both machines are
about two years old, and they run at the same clock rate. The
difference is in the laptop's architecture, which is optimized from
top to bottom for portability and low power consumption rather than
speed.

A current tablet PC has the advantage of about two years of advances
in hardware, but must be designed to work under even tighter
constraints than a laptop. Even its clock rate is just over half what
I'm used to. Is it going to perform this function three times faster
than my two-year-old laptop, or even twice as fast? I would love to be
pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

It isn't "good news" until Microsoft posts information about it on their web
site. Until then, as Mike said, it is a "hope." There are many, many
issues with digital pen usage with remotes.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Jonathan Sachs" <llm040903@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8r0n211qdobvejdlkupdhsccc24augltck@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:25:54 +1100, "Mike Williams [MVP]"
> <mikew@Nospam.mvps.org> wrote:
>
>>Yes, reading, reco, indexing and simple-editing should be available on
>>non Tablet peers. I would hope that this is available when Longhorn, or
>>its backported components hit the market.
>
> That's good news! I gather I have only about a year to wait?
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:59:01 -0800, "Chris H." <winxpnews********.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Apparently you've missed a whole lot of information regarding Tablet PCs,
>>Jonathan....
>
> First: we went over this early in February, and I searched the web at
> that time for information about using an external display on a tablet
> PC. What I found was not encouraging. Some of the manufacturers' web
> sites said it would work, but weren't quite explicit enough to be
> pinned down. Others seemed to claim it would work, but turned out to
> mean that you could display the _same_ image on the tablet, the
> external monitor, were both at once.
>
> I found several unanswered appeals from users who tried to make an
> external display work on a tablet PC, but couldn't, and couldn't
> figure out why.
>
> In short, I found plenty of warnings that even if multiple displays
> work on tablet PCs in theory, they are trouble in a jumbo can. I'm not
> going to make any plans that rely on this feature until the kinks are
> worked out, if they ever are.
>
> Second: even if the tablet PC will support an external monitor in the
> manner I described, that does not address any of the other
> shortcomings I mentioned.
>
> For example, is a tablet PC really fast enough to support my software?
> I'd will find out when I can afford to buy one for use as a mobile
> machine, but I'm very skeptical.
>
> Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes about 15 seconds to start on my desktop
> computer, and nearly a minute to start on my laptop. Both machines are
> about two years old, and they run at the same clock rate. The
> difference is in the laptop's architecture, which is optimized from
> top to bottom for portability and low power consumption rather than
> speed.
>
> A current tablet PC has the advantage of about two years of advances
> in hardware, but must be designed to work under even tighter
> constraints than a laptop. Even its clock rate is just over half what
> I'm used to. Is it going to perform this function three times faster
> than my two-year-old laptop, or even twice as fast? I would love to be
> pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it.
>
> My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

When I am at work and docked at my desk I have a mouse and keyboard, 3
external hard drives on USB 2 my external burner and a 2nd monitor in
landscape, while my tablet is in portrait. I run up to 4 Virtual Machines in
Virtual Server 2005 and other beefy apps. When I'm ready, I unplug one USB
port and I'm mobile. My tablet is my only machine.




--
Jeffery W. Roach
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, MCDST, CTTS, CNA, N+, A+
http://spaces.msn.com/members/jeffroach




"Jonathan Sachs" <llm040903@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8r0n211qdobvejdlkupdhsccc24augltck@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:25:54 +1100, "Mike Williams [MVP]"
> <mikew@Nospam.mvps.org> wrote:
>
>>Yes, reading, reco, indexing and simple-editing should be available on
>>non Tablet peers. I would hope that this is available when Longhorn, or
>>its backported components hit the market.
>
> That's good news! I gather I have only about a year to wait?
>
>
> On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 11:59:01 -0800, "Chris H." <winxpnews********.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Apparently you've missed a whole lot of information regarding Tablet PCs,
>>Jonathan....
>
> First: we went over this early in February, and I searched the web at
> that time for information about using an external display on a tablet
> PC. What I found was not encouraging. Some of the manufacturers' web
> sites said it would work, but weren't quite explicit enough to be
> pinned down. Others seemed to claim it would work, but turned out to
> mean that you could display the _same_ image on the tablet, the
> external monitor, were both at once.
>
> I found several unanswered appeals from users who tried to make an
> external display work on a tablet PC, but couldn't, and couldn't
> figure out why.
>
> In short, I found plenty of warnings that even if multiple displays
> work on tablet PCs in theory, they are trouble in a jumbo can. I'm not
> going to make any plans that rely on this feature until the kinks are
> worked out, if they ever are.
>
> Second: even if the tablet PC will support an external monitor in the
> manner I described, that does not address any of the other
> shortcomings I mentioned.
>
> For example, is a tablet PC really fast enough to support my software?
> I'd will find out when I can afford to buy one for use as a mobile
> machine, but I'm very skeptical.
>
> Dragon NaturallySpeaking takes about 15 seconds to start on my desktop
> computer, and nearly a minute to start on my laptop. Both machines are
> about two years old, and they run at the same clock rate. The
> difference is in the laptop's architecture, which is optimized from
> top to bottom for portability and low power consumption rather than
> speed.
>
> A current tablet PC has the advantage of about two years of advances
> in hardware, but must be designed to work under even tighter
> constraints than a laptop. Even its clock rate is just over half what
> I'm used to. Is it going to perform this function three times faster
> than my two-year-old laptop, or even twice as fast? I would love to be
> pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it.
>
> My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

It's hot here in the US too, no doubt.
There are some tablet only retailers.
-James

"Chris H." wrote:

> Asia is pretty hot, Mike. A couple of the OEMs sell only in those markets.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
>
> "Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam.mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:422A75FE.1050200@Nospam.mvps.org...
> > me wrote:
> >> The tablet PC market in the UK is dead. The big retailers like PC World
> >> here don't even sell any tablet PCs. Go into most companies and you won't
> >> see any tablets. I work in one of the UKs biggest banks and I have seen
> >> exactly one tablet PC here. Guess who had it - the on site Microsoft
> >> representative.
> >>
> >> To make this product mainstream I think the size and weight has to come
> >> down.
> >
> > Since it's an invisible/intangible product most places outside the US at
> > the moment, I don't think weight needs to come down for a market to exist
> > (although that will come down as regular laptop sizes decrease - there's
> > no magic that you can do just for tablets).
> >
> > None of my media/tech-savvy friends in the UK have ever seen a real Tablet
> > and as far as they're concerned it has yet to be released there. Ditto
> > here in Australia. Although over a million tablets have been sold, I don't
> > see Microsoft getting behind it in any non-US markets. Even folks in the
> > US complain about the drab advertising.
>
>
>

Jonathan Sachs wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 08:25:54 +1100, "Mike Williams [MVP]"
> <mikew@Nospam.mvps.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Yes, reading, reco, indexing and simple-editing should be available on
>>non Tablet peers. I would hope that this is available when Longhorn, or
>>its backported components hit the market.
>
>
> That's good news! I gather I have only about a year to wait?

It's not known if or when Microsoft might do this...probably not even as
Microsoft :-).

Well, I wouldn't say it's entirely dead in Australia. I see plenty of
Toshiba ads in the trade press...

And, in any case, when you turn up to events with a Tablet, everyone wants
to check it out, making you the "cool" guy for a while. :-)

Cheers
Ken

"Mike Williams [MVP]" <mikew@Nospam.mvps.org> wrote in message
news:422A75FE.1050200@Nospam.mvps.org...
: me wrote:
: > The tablet PC market in the UK is dead. The big retailers like PC World
here
: > don't even sell any tablet PCs. Go into most companies and you won't see
any
: > tablets. I work in one of the UKs biggest banks and I have seen exactly
one
: > tablet PC here. Guess who had it - the on site Microsoft representative.
: >
: > To make this product mainstream I think the size and weight has to come
: > down.
:
: Since it's an invisible/intangible product most places outside the US at
: the moment, I don't think weight needs to come down for a market to
: exist (although that will come down as regular laptop sizes decrease -
: there's no magic that you can do just for tablets).
:
: None of my media/tech-savvy friends in the UK have ever seen a real
: Tablet and as far as they're concerned it has yet to be released there.
: Ditto here in Australia. Although over a million tablets have been sold,
: I don't see Microsoft getting behind it in any non-US markets. Even
: folks in the US complain about the drab advertising.

Back to the original topic: I get the impression that people are
saying the tablet platform is "dead," for lack of market support,
everywhere except the U.S. and Japan.

From my limited perspective, I would say it is very low-visibility (I
will not say "dead") in the U.S. I have seen zero coverage of it in
the general press. If you look for articles about tablet PCs in the
trade press, you can find them; if you just read for general news,
you'll almost never see them.

I have been attending law school for the last two years, and about 50%
of my fellow students bring laptops to class. I have not seen a single
one with a tablet. I wonder how many are even aware that such a thing
exists.

My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

In contrast the New York Times has done two stories about small Windows XP
computers that don't come with the Tablet version of Windows XP:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/14/te...er=rssuserland

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/06/te...er=rssuserland

This fits with the Original Poster's hypothesis that the market is looking
for full PC power with pocket mobility, which Tablet PCs could do if there
were some smaller and less expensive hardware.


"Jonathan Sachs" <llm040903@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:47jo215b0ct7ti79t83dngi4uh44bpecd2@4ax.com...
> Back to the original topic: I get the impression that people are
> saying the tablet platform is "dead," for lack of market support,
> everywhere except the U.S. and Japan.
>
> From my limited perspective, I would say it is very low-visibility (I
> will not say "dead") in the U.S. I have seen zero coverage of it in
> the general press. If you look for articles about tablet PCs in the
> trade press, you can find them; if you just read for general news,
> you'll almost never see them.

Aware? Have you asked your fellow law students? 8-)
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet Creations - http://nicecreations.us/
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone


"Jonathan Sachs" <llm040903@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:47jo215b0ct7ti79t83dngi4uh44bpecd2@4ax.com...
> Back to the original topic: I get the impression that people are
> saying the tablet platform is "dead," for lack of market support,
> everywhere except the U.S. and Japan.
>
> From my limited perspective, I would say it is very low-visibility (I
> will not say "dead") in the U.S. I have seen zero coverage of it in
> the general press. If you look for articles about tablet PCs in the
> trade press, you can find them; if you just read for general news,
> you'll almost never see them.
>
> I have been attending law school for the last two years, and about 50%
> of my fellow students bring laptops to class. I have not seen a single
> one with a tablet. I wonder how many are even aware that such a thing
> exists.
>
> My email address is llm040903 at earthlink dot net.

Jonathan Sachs <llm040903@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Back to the original topic: I get the impression that people are
> saying the tablet platform is "dead," for lack of market support,
> everywhere except the U.S. and Japan.
>
> From my limited perspective, I would say it is very low-visibility (I
> will not say "dead") in the U.S. I have seen zero coverage of it in
> the general press. If you look for articles about tablet PCs in the
> trade press, you can find them; if you just read for general news,
> you'll almost never see them.

I would say that in the UK it isn't 'Dead' (ie, stopped appearing
anywhere) as 'Never live' (ie, was never advertised).
It is easy enough to get a tablet (online) if you know they exist, but
you have to find out they exist yourself.


--
Woody

www.alienrat.com