I have a Gateway Tablet PC from a couple years ago. It has WinXP Tablet
Edition and all service packs. I have automatic updates turned on.

As a point of reference and to help others help me understand where to look
to solve the issue I have to mention this first: On 6/6/2007 I upgraded my
hard drive. I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. I basically
just got a bigger drive. I don't think the copy is part of the problem. I
mention this because if I plug in my old hard drive the problems I am about
to describe DON'T HAPPEN. This means 2 things. 1. Whatever is causing the
problem happened some time in the last 6 months. 2. If someone can point me
in the right direction I should be able to look at my old configuration (by
plugging in my old hard drive) and my new one.

So here are the problems:

First, I bought a Microsoft LifeCam VX-6000. A sticker on the cable says to
install the drivers first. I did that. I then plug in the camera and it says
new hardware found. I go through the wizard, but it can't find the drivers. I
tell it to manually look at the CD folder where I know the drivers are and
even then it can't find the drivers. I choose to manually choose the driver,
pick Microsoft and then pick the VX-6000 drive that appears (see it is
installed) and it says it is working. I get video, but no audio. I use the
same procedure after plugging in my old hard drive and it installs
automatically and works fine.

I try another test with a Microsoft generic hub. When I plug that into my
computer with my OLD hard drive installed it doesn't even bring up the
wizard. It just automatically installs the correct driver and works fine.
With my current drive I get the new hardware wizard and it says it can't find
the driver.

The second problem that I think is related is with the pen driver for the
Tablet PC. If I reboot my computer and let windows come up the FinePoint pen
doesn't work. The driver says it is working, but nothing happens. If I use
the touch pad or a mouse or even just the keyboard to go to the device
manager and disable and then enable the finepoint driver then the pen starts
working fine. Again with the old hard drive from 6 months ago this problem
does not occur.

I am a software engineer and have many years experience with Windows, so
anyone who want to chime in and give any technical things to try, please do.
I am just not sure where to look.

I suspect that the problem is somewhere in the plug and play stuff, but just
don't know. I suppose I could just go back and copy my drive again from 6
months ago, but I really have installed a lot of stuff since then and can't
remember it all and it would be a real pain.

Please help if you can. Thanks you.

In message <3AE4370A-2198-4634-A2F0-AF4F01DA397B@microsoft.com>, apitman
<apitman@discussions.microsoft.com> writes
>I have a Gateway Tablet PC from a couple years ago. It has WinXP Tablet
>Edition and all service packs. I have automatic updates turned on.
>
>As a point of reference and to help others help me understand where to look
>to solve the issue I have to mention this first: On 6/6/2007 I upgraded my
>hard drive. I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. I basically
>just got a bigger drive. I don't think the copy is part of the problem. I
>mention this because if I plug in my old hard drive the problems I am about
>to describe DON'T HAPPEN. This means 2 things. 1. Whatever is causing the
>problem happened some time in the last 6 months. 2. If someone can point me
>in the right direction I should be able to look at my old configuration (by
>plugging in my old hard drive) and my new one.
>
>So here are the problems:
>
>First, I bought a Microsoft LifeCam VX-6000. A sticker on the cable says to
>install the drivers first. I did that. I then plug in the camera and it says
>new hardware found. I go through the wizard, but it can't find the drivers. I
>tell it to manually look at the CD folder where I know the drivers are and
>even then it can't find the drivers. I choose to manually choose the driver,
>pick Microsoft and then pick the VX-6000 drive that appears (see it is
>installed) and it says it is working. I get video, but no audio. I use the
>same procedure after plugging in my old hard drive and it installs
>automatically and works fine.
>
>I try another test with a Microsoft generic hub. When I plug that into my
>computer with my OLD hard drive installed it doesn't even bring up the
>wizard. It just automatically installs the correct driver and works fine.
>With my current drive I get the new hardware wizard and it says it can't find
>the driver.
>
>The second problem that I think is related is with the pen driver for the
>Tablet PC. If I reboot my computer and let windows come up the FinePoint pen
>doesn't work. The driver says it is working, but nothing happens. If I use
>the touch pad or a mouse or even just the keyboard to go to the device
>manager and disable and then enable the finepoint driver then the pen starts
>working fine. Again with the old hard drive from 6 months ago this problem
>does not occur.
>
>I am a software engineer and have many years experience with Windows, so
>anyone who want to chime in and give any technical things to try, please do.
>I am just not sure where to look.
>
>I suspect that the problem is somewhere in the plug and play stuff, but just
>don't know. I suppose I could just go back and copy my drive again from 6
>months ago, but I really have installed a lot of stuff since then and can't
>remember it all and it would be a real pain.
>
>Please help if you can. Thanks you.

I am not an expert - so use this at your ow risk - or someone who is an
expert may come along and help!!!

It sounds as if something in the Registry that stores the USB
identifiers is screwed up.

As I (very roughly) understand it Windows records in the registry every
different USB device ever attached to the machine, keeping track by
means of vendor identifiers/serial numbers.

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms894085.aspx
http://www.forensicswiki.org/index.p...istory_Viewing

may give you some clues as to what is going on.

When a device it thinks it knows about is attached it uses the data in
the registry to load the relevant drivers etc. If the registry entry for
a device gets screwed up, Windows may load screwed up drivers, or simply
fail to load anything. Your symptoms suggest that the USB list has a bad
entry in it somewhere ( at least one), and the USB "discovery" mechanism
is just failing when it hits the bad entries. The wizard firing up with
new devices is probably a symptom of this, and the Wizard can't get past
the bad entry either.

The Finepoint pen is probably a USB device so the symptoms fit.

There is a utility (USBDEview) that may be of some help, it will let you
"uninstall" USB devices. They should then do a clean install the next
time you plug them in.

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html

I would start with the VX-6000. The caveat - I have never used the
utility, I fixed my similar problem (mine was a screwed up driver) the
hard way by finding and deleting the problem registry keys.

Microsoft have a utility called UVCView that will allow you to see what
they think is actually attached but USBDEview shows the registry (I
think!). Try comparing what USBDEview sees with the old and new disks
isnatlled. The problem is probably in the differences.

I hope this rambling helps.
--
Peter R Cook

>> I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. <<

This is essentially reinstalling the os to a different drive and a
number of posts here point to tablet os install problems... any chance
of getting the original restore CD's?

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

I could do an original restore, but I would like to explore all other options
first.

I did NOT have this problem right after doing the copy. The only reason I
mentioned the copy at all is to point at 2 things. 1. It is not the computer
itself because same hardware / drivers give different results depending old
driver versus new drive. 2. I have the old working image incase someone can
point me to looking somewhere specific to compare.

The other person who responded has some great ideas. I will try those.

Tony

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:

> >> I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. <<
>
> This is essentially reinstalling the os to a different drive and a
> number of posts here point to tablet os install problems... any chance
> of getting the original restore CD's?
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
>

So I used the tool that you recommended (cool, thanks) and removed all of the
drivers that are not installed on the drive that works. This did not make any
difference.

I did discover a little more about the pen not working issue.

If I start windows and then move the pen around while windows is waiting at
the log in screen the pen works for a while and then quits working while the
hard drive is cranking along (meaning it is still loading stuff as windows
starts).

If I log in quickly and then keep moving the pen around while the hard drive
is still going the desktop shows up along with the task bar and everything,
but soon quits working.

I tried pulling up task manager and watching for a tash to appear at the
moment that the pen quits working, but the hard drive is cranking so much
that task manager never appears before the pen quits.

Is there any software that can be automatically loaded upon start at the
very beginning that will show what things are being started while the desktop
is visible? Something like the list of drivers that are loading that you see
when you start in safe mode?

If there is then I could watch what is loaded right as the pen quits and
maybe catch it.

"Invalid" wrote:

> In message <3AE4370A-2198-4634-A2F0-AF4F01DA397B@microsoft.com>, apitman
> <apitman@discussions.microsoft.com> writes
> >I have a Gateway Tablet PC from a couple years ago. It has WinXP Tablet
> >Edition and all service packs. I have automatic updates turned on.
> >
> >As a point of reference and to help others help me understand where to look
> >to solve the issue I have to mention this first: On 6/6/2007 I upgraded my
> >hard drive. I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. I basically
> >just got a bigger drive. I don't think the copy is part of the problem. I
> >mention this because if I plug in my old hard drive the problems I am about
> >to describe DON'T HAPPEN. This means 2 things. 1. Whatever is causing the
> >problem happened some time in the last 6 months. 2. If someone can point me
> >in the right direction I should be able to look at my old configuration (by
> >plugging in my old hard drive) and my new one.
> >
> >So here are the problems:
> >
> >First, I bought a Microsoft LifeCam VX-6000. A sticker on the cable says to
> >install the drivers first. I did that. I then plug in the camera and it says
> >new hardware found. I go through the wizard, but it can't find the drivers. I
> >tell it to manually look at the CD folder where I know the drivers are and
> >even then it can't find the drivers. I choose to manually choose the driver,
> >pick Microsoft and then pick the VX-6000 drive that appears (see it is
> >installed) and it says it is working. I get video, but no audio. I use the
> >same procedure after plugging in my old hard drive and it installs
> >automatically and works fine.
> >
> >I try another test with a Microsoft generic hub. When I plug that into my
> >computer with my OLD hard drive installed it doesn't even bring up the
> >wizard. It just automatically installs the correct driver and works fine.
> >With my current drive I get the new hardware wizard and it says it can't find
> >the driver.
> >
> >The second problem that I think is related is with the pen driver for the
> >Tablet PC. If I reboot my computer and let windows come up the FinePoint pen
> >doesn't work. The driver says it is working, but nothing happens. If I use
> >the touch pad or a mouse or even just the keyboard to go to the device
> >manager and disable and then enable the finepoint driver then the pen starts
> >working fine. Again with the old hard drive from 6 months ago this problem
> >does not occur.
> >
> >I am a software engineer and have many years experience with Windows, so
> >anyone who want to chime in and give any technical things to try, please do.
> >I am just not sure where to look.
> >
> >I suspect that the problem is somewhere in the plug and play stuff, but just
> >don't know. I suppose I could just go back and copy my drive again from 6
> >months ago, but I really have installed a lot of stuff since then and can't
> >remember it all and it would be a real pain.
> >
> >Please help if you can. Thanks you.
>
> I am not an expert - so use this at your ow risk - or someone who is an
> expert may come along and help!!!
>
> It sounds as if something in the Registry that stores the USB
> identifiers is screwed up.
>
> As I (very roughly) understand it Windows records in the registry every
> different USB device ever attached to the machine, keeping track by
> means of vendor identifiers/serial numbers.
>
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms894085.aspx
> http://www.forensicswiki.org/index.p...istory_Viewing
>
> may give you some clues as to what is going on.
>
> When a device it thinks it knows about is attached it uses the data in
> the registry to load the relevant drivers etc. If the registry entry for
> a device gets screwed up, Windows may load screwed up drivers, or simply
> fail to load anything. Your symptoms suggest that the USB list has a bad
> entry in it somewhere ( at least one), and the USB "discovery" mechanism
> is just failing when it hits the bad entries. The wizard firing up with
> new devices is probably a symptom of this, and the Wizard can't get past
> the bad entry either.
>
> The Finepoint pen is probably a USB device so the symptoms fit.
>
> There is a utility (USBDEview) that may be of some help, it will let you
> "uninstall" USB devices. They should then do a clean install the next
> time you plug them in.
>
> http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html
>
> I would start with the VX-6000. The caveat - I have never used the
> utility, I fixed my similar problem (mine was a screwed up driver) the
> hard way by finding and deleting the problem registry keys.
>
> Microsoft have a utility called UVCView that will allow you to see what
> they think is actually attached but USBDEview shows the registry (I
> think!). Try comparing what USBDEview sees with the old and new disks
> isnatlled. The problem is probably in the differences.
>
> I hope this rambling helps.
> --
> Peter R Cook
>

I discuvered something else about the loading of new devices. I decided to
start the computer in safe mode and see what would happen when I plug in the
USB hub. I get the same results so I think it is safe to say it isn't one of
the things that gets loaded when in normal mode.

I did find, however, that the pen continues to work in safe mode, so I think
that is a different and probably unrelated problem. The pen doesn't work
completely because it moves eratically around the screen, but I think this is
probably because the scaling template for the pen driver is not getting
loaded in safe mode, but the driver itself is still working.



"Invalid" wrote:

> In message <3AE4370A-2198-4634-A2F0-AF4F01DA397B@microsoft.com>, apitman
> <apitman@discussions.microsoft.com> writes
> >I have a Gateway Tablet PC from a couple years ago. It has WinXP Tablet
> >Edition and all service packs. I have automatic updates turned on.
> >
> >As a point of reference and to help others help me understand where to look
> >to solve the issue I have to mention this first: On 6/6/2007 I upgraded my
> >hard drive. I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. I basically
> >just got a bigger drive. I don't think the copy is part of the problem. I
> >mention this because if I plug in my old hard drive the problems I am about
> >to describe DON'T HAPPEN. This means 2 things. 1. Whatever is causing the
> >problem happened some time in the last 6 months. 2. If someone can point me
> >in the right direction I should be able to look at my old configuration (by
> >plugging in my old hard drive) and my new one.
> >
> >So here are the problems:
> >
> >First, I bought a Microsoft LifeCam VX-6000. A sticker on the cable says to
> >install the drivers first. I did that. I then plug in the camera and it says
> >new hardware found. I go through the wizard, but it can't find the drivers. I
> >tell it to manually look at the CD folder where I know the drivers are and
> >even then it can't find the drivers. I choose to manually choose the driver,
> >pick Microsoft and then pick the VX-6000 drive that appears (see it is
> >installed) and it says it is working. I get video, but no audio. I use the
> >same procedure after plugging in my old hard drive and it installs
> >automatically and works fine.
> >
> >I try another test with a Microsoft generic hub. When I plug that into my
> >computer with my OLD hard drive installed it doesn't even bring up the
> >wizard. It just automatically installs the correct driver and works fine.
> >With my current drive I get the new hardware wizard and it says it can't find
> >the driver.
> >
> >The second problem that I think is related is with the pen driver for the
> >Tablet PC. If I reboot my computer and let windows come up the FinePoint pen
> >doesn't work. The driver says it is working, but nothing happens. If I use
> >the touch pad or a mouse or even just the keyboard to go to the device
> >manager and disable and then enable the finepoint driver then the pen starts
> >working fine. Again with the old hard drive from 6 months ago this problem
> >does not occur.
> >
> >I am a software engineer and have many years experience with Windows, so
> >anyone who want to chime in and give any technical things to try, please do.
> >I am just not sure where to look.
> >
> >I suspect that the problem is somewhere in the plug and play stuff, but just
> >don't know. I suppose I could just go back and copy my drive again from 6
> >months ago, but I really have installed a lot of stuff since then and can't
> >remember it all and it would be a real pain.
> >
> >Please help if you can. Thanks you.
>
> I am not an expert - so use this at your ow risk - or someone who is an
> expert may come along and help!!!
>
> It sounds as if something in the Registry that stores the USB
> identifiers is screwed up.
>
> As I (very roughly) understand it Windows records in the registry every
> different USB device ever attached to the machine, keeping track by
> means of vendor identifiers/serial numbers.
>
> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms894085.aspx
> http://www.forensicswiki.org/index.p...istory_Viewing
>
> may give you some clues as to what is going on.
>
> When a device it thinks it knows about is attached it uses the data in
> the registry to load the relevant drivers etc. If the registry entry for
> a device gets screwed up, Windows may load screwed up drivers, or simply
> fail to load anything. Your symptoms suggest that the USB list has a bad
> entry in it somewhere ( at least one), and the USB "discovery" mechanism
> is just failing when it hits the bad entries. The wizard firing up with
> new devices is probably a symptom of this, and the Wizard can't get past
> the bad entry either.
>
> The Finepoint pen is probably a USB device so the symptoms fit.
>
> There is a utility (USBDEview) that may be of some help, it will let you
> "uninstall" USB devices. They should then do a clean install the next
> time you plug them in.
>
> http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/usb_devices_view.html
>
> I would start with the VX-6000. The caveat - I have never used the
> utility, I fixed my similar problem (mine was a screwed up driver) the
> hard way by finding and deleting the problem registry keys.
>
> Microsoft have a utility called UVCView that will allow you to see what
> they think is actually attached but USBDEview shows the registry (I
> think!). Try comparing what USBDEview sees with the old and new disks
> isnatlled. The problem is probably in the differences.
>
> I hope this rambling helps.
> --
> Peter R Cook
>

I wanted to see if maybe one of the many windows updates that have been
released since I replaced my old hard drive was the problem.

I installed the old hard drive into the laptop and started windows.
Everything started fine and I was able to install the USB hub without even
seeing the wizard and it just installed fine as a generic hub. The pen keeps
working and all seems fine.

I then connected the Internet and let it do the windows update. There were
34 updates. I let them all download and install.

I then received the dialog asking to restart. I told it to go ahead and
restart (I think the button is labeled simply restart).

The computer shut down and started back up.

Here is the weird thing.....as windows started it went into check disk mode
where it says something is wrong with the drive and it needs to be checked.
It then proceeded to find a TON of bad files and indexes and such.

What the heck happened? All I did was windows update and hit the restart
button on the dialog that appeared at the end.

After it was done it still booted, but many of the files I saw during the
chkdsk were in the windows folder and other critical folders.

Why would windows update cause that?

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" wrote:

> >> I did this by using a hard drive imaging software. <<
>
> This is essentially reinstalling the os to a different drive and a
> number of posts here point to tablet os install problems... any chance
> of getting the original restore CD's?
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
>
>

I have little that can help. From the "upgrade problem" it sounds as if
you may have some sort of hardware (memory or Disk controller going
flaky).

The other issues

Have you tried comparing what the USBDEview reports in safe mode with
what it reports in "broken" mode. I don't know how windows starts up,
but something that loads in "broken mode" is clearly interfering with
the pen.

Is the pen reported as a USB device? If so then some USB driver that
loads in "broken mode" but not in safe mode is getting in the way.

If you can't identify the broken driver one option (advice I gleaned
from a post by Mike Williams ) is possibly to

" I go to the registry and clear out the Vid keys under
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\U SB"

and let them all reinstall.

beyond that I think you are in for a rebuild.

Good Luck


--
Peter R Cook

I found the problem with loading new devices and fixed it. I can't believe it
was this simple or that I didn't get more information from Windows on what
was going on.

Since I am a developer myself I was thinking along the lines of debugging.
What could I do to log what was being loaded along the way to figure this
out. Well, I was searching throught the windows driver model documentation on
MSDN and came across a page talking about the setupapi.log file. I turned on
verbose debugging and then looked at what happens when I install a new USB
device on the drive that works versus the one that doesn't.

The main difference I found was right at the start the one that works was
loading USB.inf. I looked on the hard drive that wasn't working and sure
enough this file was just GONE. I have no idea how it was deleted, but once I
copied it from the working drive to the new one, wala, any device I install
now works that didn't before.

I am still having trouble with the tablet pc pen. I can't seem to figure out
what is interfearing with it. To recap it works until some time during
windows desktop startup (or if I wait long enough at the windows login
screen) and then quits working. If I just go to the driver and disable then
enable it starts working and will continue to work until I reboot. Usually I
just hibernate so this isn't a problem very often. I would still like to find
out why. The old hard drive doesn't do this.

AFter fixing the USB problem I did try uninstalling and reinstalling the pen
driver, but that didn't fix it.

I have the latest driver from fine point. they are going to get an email
from me now.



"Invalid" wrote:

> I have little that can help. From the "upgrade problem" it sounds as if
> you may have some sort of hardware (memory or Disk controller going
> flaky).
>
> The other issues
>
> Have you tried comparing what the USBDEview reports in safe mode with
> what it reports in "broken" mode. I don't know how windows starts up,
> but something that loads in "broken mode" is clearly interfering with
> the pen.
>
> Is the pen reported as a USB device? If so then some USB driver that
> loads in "broken mode" but not in safe mode is getting in the way.
>
> If you can't identify the broken driver one option (advice I gleaned
> from a post by Mike Williams ) is possibly to
>
> " I go to the registry and clear out the Vid keys under
> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Enum\U SB"
>
> and let them all reinstall.
>
> beyond that I think you are in for a rebuild.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> --
> Peter R Cook
>