Hi !

I have an ACER TravelMATE 302 with Windows XP TabletPC
Edition SP1.

I had bought an MS Bluetooth mouse, but I can get it to
work with it. I mean NOT with the extra transreceiver,
because the notebook has bluetooth built in.

- I have XP SP1
- I have the bluetooth turned on

What am I missing ?

BIG THANKS,

Moore

Hi,
From my understanding of what Microsoft did, they made their mouse only work
with their Bluetooth dongle. I know that users have had problems using
other devices with Microsoft's Bluetooth dongle as well.

--
Chris De Herrera
http://www.cewindows.net
http://www.tabletpctalk.com

"D.Moore" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:17c001c3fbdf$40df9860$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> Hi !
>
> I have an ACER TravelMATE 302 with Windows XP TabletPC
> Edition SP1.
>
> I had bought an MS Bluetooth mouse, but I can get it to
> work with it. I mean NOT with the extra transreceiver,
> because the notebook has bluetooth built in.
>
> - I have XP SP1
> - I have the bluetooth turned on
>
> What am I missing ?
>
> BIG THANKS,
>
> Moore

for what it's worth, news articles (e.g.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,113855,00.asp) are saying that the
new XP service pack (2) will have an updated Bluetooth stack, so that might
help with this (except it's not out for a while yet).

--
Glyn Simpson
Microsoft MVP - Money

"Chris De Herrera" <chris@cewindows.net> wrote in message
news:O2hcjjB$DHA.792@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
> From my understanding of what Microsoft did, they made their mouse only
work
> with their Bluetooth dongle. I know that users have had problems using
> other devices with Microsoft's Bluetooth dongle as well.
>
> --
> Chris De Herrera
> http://www.cewindows.net
> http://www.tabletpctalk.com
>
> "D.Moore" <anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:17c001c3fbdf$40df9860$a401280a@phx.gbl...
> > Hi !
> >
> > I have an ACER TravelMATE 302 with Windows XP TabletPC
> > Edition SP1.
> >
> > I had bought an MS Bluetooth mouse, but I can get it to
> > work with it. I mean NOT with the extra transreceiver,
> > because the notebook has bluetooth built in.
> >
> > - I have XP SP1
> > - I have the bluetooth turned on
> >
> > What am I missing ?
> >
> > BIG THANKS,
> >
> > Moore
>
>

In article <O2hcjjB$DHA.792@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>, chris@cewindows.net
says...
> From my understanding of what Microsoft did, they made their mouse only work
> with their Bluetooth dongle.
>
Geez! That is so FREAKING Microsoft. Take a standard, screw with it so it
only works with their products and not tell the customer. I would say to
take the darn mouse back in protest and buy something made to work with
the standard.

That's a pretty wild statement, isn't it? If you've got a PPC and want to
connect, do you use the furnish hardware and base station, or do you expect
any products to work in any base station? I think your statement is off
base, Grant.
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Grant Robertson" <BOGUS@BOGUS.com> wrote in message
news:OHhpYyI$DHA.2576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Geez! That is so FREAKING Microsoft. Take a standard, screw with it so it
> only works with their products and not tell the customer. I would say to
> take the darn mouse back in protest and buy something made to work with
> the standard.

Well you missed the point. Bluetooth right now is like the Wild West - in
some cases it works, in others it doesn't and it's Caveat Emptor to the
consumer to figure it out.


--
Chris De Herrera
http://www.cewindows.net
http://www.tabletpctalk.com

"Chris H." <winxpnews********.com> wrote in message
news:%23a1PS3J$DHA.2216@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> That's a pretty wild statement, isn't it? If you've got a PPC and want to
> connect, do you use the furnish hardware and base station, or do you
expect
> any products to work in any base station? I think your statement is off
> base, Grant.
> --
> Chris H.
> Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
> Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
> Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
> Associate Expert
> Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>
> "Grant Robertson" <BOGUS@BOGUS.com> wrote in message
> news:OHhpYyI$DHA.2576@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> > Geez! That is so FREAKING Microsoft. Take a standard, screw with it so
it
> > only works with their products and not tell the customer. I would say to
> > take the darn mouse back in protest and buy something made to work with
> > the standard.
>
>

In article <#a1PS3J$DHA.2216@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, winxpnews********.com
says...
> That's a pretty wild statement, isn't it? If you've got a PPC and want to
> connect, do you use the furnish hardware and base station, or do you expect
> any products to work in any base station? I think your statement is off
> base, Grant.
>
I have a Logitech wireless mouse. It does not claim to adhere to any
standard. So I wouldn't even expect its base station to work with other
wireless mice from the same company. However, if a mouse claims to be a
BlueTooth wireless mouse then there are certain standards that must be
adhered to. Leave it to Microsoft to claim to be BlueTooth compatible
when they really are not.

Your analogy is off base. If Cisco released a switch that they claimed
was ethernet compatible but, it turns out, would only work with Cisco
brand network cards, you would be pretty ticked. Especially if you didn't
find out until you had already gotten the switches and invested time and
energy configuring them. Microsoft has done the exact same thing with
almost every standard you can name.

They claim, "An available Universal Serial Bus (USB) port for the Microsoft
Wireless Transceiver for Bluetooth (transceiver included)" which means to me
you need to use the proprietary Microsoft Wireless Transceiver. This is
listed at
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mo...s.aspx?pid=001

Logitech has similar requirements for their USB connector. Could you please
post the URL for Microsoft's claim otherwise?
--
Chris H.
Microsoft Windows MVP/Tablet PC
Tablet PC Universe - www.tabletpcuniverse.net
Tablet PC Chat - http://thetabletpc.net/support.htm
Associate Expert
Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone

"Grant Robertson" <BOGUS@BOGUS.com> wrote in message
news:%23k6tZ8g$DHA.220@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> In article <#a1PS3J$DHA.2216@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl>, winxpnews********.com
> says...
>> That's a pretty wild statement, isn't it? If you've got a PPC and want
>> to
>> connect, do you use the furnish hardware and base station, or do you
>> expect
>> any products to work in any base station? I think your statement is off
>> base, Grant.
>>
> I have a Logitech wireless mouse. It does not claim to adhere to any
> standard. So I wouldn't even expect its base station to work with other
> wireless mice from the same company. However, if a mouse claims to be a
> BlueTooth wireless mouse then there are certain standards that must be
> adhered to. Leave it to Microsoft to claim to be BlueTooth compatible
> when they really are not.
>
> Your analogy is off base. If Cisco released a switch that they claimed
> was ethernet compatible but, it turns out, would only work with Cisco
> brand network cards, you would be pretty ticked. Especially if you didn't
> find out until you had already gotten the switches and invested time and
> energy configuring them. Microsoft has done the exact same thing with
> almost every standard you can name.

Microsofts bluetooth mouse is standards compliant. It uses the HID
profile. The profile is supported by Microsofts stack that is included
with the bluetooth mouse and will be part of XP SP2, it is also
supported by the Widcomm stack version 1.4.1 and later, and by Mac OSX
10.2 and later. Apples and Logitechs mice use the same profile.
Logitechs mice will also work without special software.

If you have bluetooth in your tablet chances are you have the Widcomm
stack installed. The sign is a "My Bluetooth Places" icon on the
desktop. If your version of Widcomm is less than 1.4.1 you might want to
check for an update supplied by the manufacturer. If that doesn't work
then with a bit of hackery you can get the updated versions of the
drivers supplied by other manufacturers to work with your hardware.

When you get hold of SP2, and a suitable driver for the built in
bluetooth hardware you can choose to use either the Microsoft stack or
the Widcomm one to work with your mouse.





Chris De Herrera wrote:

> Hi,
> From my understanding of what Microsoft did, they made their mouse only work
> with their Bluetooth dongle. I know that users have had problems using
> other devices with Microsoft's Bluetooth dongle as well.
>

In article <uH353Th$DHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, winxpnews********.com
says...
> They claim, "An available Universal Serial Bus (USB) port for the Microsoft
> Wireless Transceiver for Bluetooth (transceiver included)" which means to me
^^^^^^^^^
> you need to use the proprietary Microsoft Wireless Transceiver. This is
> listed at
> http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mo...s.aspx?pid=001
>
> Logitech has similar requirements for their USB connector. Could you please
> post the URL for Microsoft's claim otherwise?
>
You just did it for me. Blue tooth is a standard. There are standardized
protocols for communicating with different types of devices. Mice being
the most common among them. By using the term 'BlueTooth' Microsoft is
claiming to be adhering to the standard.

But you might as well give it up, Chris. We all know, in your eyes,
Microsoft can do no wrong.

BTW, there is no Easter Bunny.

Grant Robertson wrote:
> In article <uH353Th$DHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>, winxpnews********.com
> says...
>
>>They claim, "An available Universal Serial Bus (USB) port for the Microsoft
>>Wireless Transceiver for Bluetooth (transceiver included)" which means to me
>
> ^^^^^^^^^
>
>>you need to use the proprietary Microsoft Wireless Transceiver. This is
>>listed at
>>http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mo...s.aspx?pid=001
>>
>>Logitech has similar requirements for their USB connector. Could you please
>>post the URL for Microsoft's claim otherwise?
>>
>
> You just did it for me. Blue tooth is a standard. There are standardized
> protocols for communicating with different types of devices. Mice being
> the most common among them. By using the term 'BlueTooth' Microsoft is
> claiming to be adhering to the standard.
>
> But you might as well give it up, Chris. We all know, in your eyes,
> Microsoft can do no wrong.
>
> BTW, there is no Easter Bunny.

Microsoft is adhering to the standard. Bluetooth HID. The same standard
as Apple and Logitech use.
At the time it was released Microsofts mouse was the first on the market
and there weren't any other bluetooth software stacks that also
supported the HID profile. Now you have a choice of software, choose
from Microsoft, Widcomm, Logitech, BlueSoleil etc.
If you are still using a version of Widcomm that doesn't support
Bluetooth HID you can't really blame Microsoft for that.

I've sucessfuly used the Microsoft mouse with a TDK PCMCIA Bluetooth
card, a Tecom USB Dongle using updated Widcomm software and using the
Microsoft software with the Microsoft Transceiver and my Tecom dongle.

They supplied a complete package with the mouse, a bluetooth adaptor and
the software support for the Mouse. You only needed a free USB port to
use the supplied adapter.

The Microsoft software currently works very well with my Nokia 6600 and
from XP SP2 it will support Bluetooth Serial ports, Obex file transfers
and PAN Networking as well.

Yes, MS BT mouse is BT compliant, regarding the HID profile, just as
it should be. The problem is on current MS BT stack, becouse it just
supports MS BT HID devices, meaning that you can just connect MS BT
HID devices to MS BT transiever via MS BT stack. According to
Microsoft, that's just fine, they are using Bluetooth all the way.
But what they are not saying, is they don't support BT
Interoperability. So question is, does standardisation mean, using
protocol defined by some nice papers, or does it mean, OK guys, here
are the rules that all of us must adhere to. Well, Microsoft is
definitely not playing by the standards the others are setting on...

I'm writing this via my brand new MS BT keyboard, just after 10 days
playing for 3 hours per day, trying to get right combination (BT
transiever+BT stack).

At first I missed the right Widcomm stack for my DBT-120 D-Link BT
transiever version A2, finally ending on 1.4.2 build 10 (I tried
latest I could find, 1.4.3, but not too stable for D-Link). Then I
succeed to connect MS Keyboard, but when I connected MS BT mouse, then
everything just frosen on the spot.

I was fiddling with this combination for a while, and finally given
up, deinstalled Widcomm BT stack, found out the latest MS BT stack on
their driver development page and installed it in following order:

1) Clean up all BT stuff from your PC according to MS 811805 article.

2) Find latest available BT stack bt_stack_rtm.exe from MS driver
development page.

3) Extract it and install Q323183_WXP_SP2_X86_ENU.EXE from it. Click
on extracted BLUTOOTH.INF and install it by right click/install.

4) Download latest MS IntelliPoint for mouse (currently is available
Intellipoint version 5, 5.0IP5_0ENG.exe) and MS IntelliType for
keyboard (currently is available IntelliType version 5, ITP5_0Eng.exe)
from http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/Do

5) Ensure that the batteries for the keyboard and mouse are installed.

6) Go to the Start-Control panel-Add hardware- next- no, I want to add
new BT device

7) Add keyboard first, then the mouse. Use 'remember' option, and set
that devices DO NOT need to authenticate first.

8) Of everything is OK; keyborad and mouse should be working. Usually
mouse is worse, you have to disconnect your existing mouse and restart
PC to make it work.

And finally, links I get most of the stuff from:

http://www.jonscaife.com/bt/index.html Jon Scaife Widcomm BT stack
page, the best I could find

http://weblogs.asp.net/bdesmond/arch.../09/31349.aspx Brian
Desmond's Blog, fantastic site, not just for BT :-)

Next step will be: :-)))

http://www.iptel-now.de/HOWTO/BT_HID/bt_hid.mtml

http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/hid.html



TAKE CARE AND HAPPY BLUETOOTHING !!!!


Edward <eddwo@nospamthanks.hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<Ow5eI5l$DHA.624@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>...
> Microsofts bluetooth mouse is standards compliant. It uses the HID
> profile. The profile is supported by Microsofts stack that is included
> with the bluetooth mouse and will be part of XP SP2, it is also
> supported by the Widcomm stack version 1.4.1 and later, and by Mac OSX
> 10.2 and later. Apples and Logitechs mice use the same profile.
> Logitechs mice will also work without special software.
>
> If you have bluetooth in your tablet chances are you have the Widcomm
> stack installed. The sign is a "My Bluetooth Places" icon on the
> desktop. If your version of Widcomm is less than 1.4.1 you might want to
> check for an update supplied by the manufacturer. If that doesn't work
> then with a bit of hackery you can get the updated versions of the
> drivers supplied by other manufacturers to work with your hardware.
>
> When you get hold of SP2, and a suitable driver for the built in
> bluetooth hardware you can choose to use either the Microsoft stack or
> the Widcomm one to work with your mouse.
>
>
>
>
>
> Chris De Herrera wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > From my understanding of what Microsoft did, they made their mouse only work
> > with their Bluetooth dongle. I know that users have had problems using
> > other devices with Microsoft's Bluetooth dongle as well.
> >

Well yes so far Microsoft lags behind Widcomm in implementing profiles
but it is getting better.

The version that comes with the Bluetooth mouse supports HID, DUN, HCRP,
and serial connections using the Socket API.

The version that is part of XP SP2 adds serial via virtual serial ports,
PAN profile networking and OBEX file transfer.

With virtual serial ports most applications will work. Mobile phone
management, GPS devices and Palm/PocketPC sync all use serial ports
underneath.

Widcomm is still ahead in that is also has Headset/Voice Gateway, LAP
Networking, OBEX Sync and FTP File Browsing

I don't think Microsoft will ever support LAP as PAN is their baby.
There are presentation documents on the work they are doing to support
headsets, but it will probably not appear until Bluetooth 1.2 devices
are mainstream. FTP should be fairly easy to implement as it is just an
extension of OBEX as is OBEX Sync.

Maybe by the time Longhorn arrive their Bluetooth support will be complete.

Thanks for all the links ;-)

Edward

Lock wrote:
> Yes, MS BT mouse is BT compliant, regarding the HID profile, just as
> it should be. The problem is on current MS BT stack, becouse it just
> supports MS BT HID devices, meaning that you can just connect MS BT
> HID devices to MS BT transiever via MS BT stack. According to
> Microsoft, that's just fine, they are using Bluetooth all the way.
> But what they are not saying, is they don't support BT
> Interoperability. So question is, does standardisation mean, using
> protocol defined by some nice papers, or does it mean, OK guys, here
> are the rules that all of us must adhere to. Well, Microsoft is
> definitely not playing by the standards the others are setting on...
>
> I'm writing this via my brand new MS BT keyboard, just after 10 days
> playing for 3 hours per day, trying to get right combination (BT
> transiever+BT stack).
>
> At first I missed the right Widcomm stack for my DBT-120 D-Link BT
> transiever version A2, finally ending on 1.4.2 build 10 (I tried
> latest I could find, 1.4.3, but not too stable for D-Link). Then I
> succeed to connect MS Keyboard, but when I connected MS BT mouse, then
> everything just frosen on the spot.
>
> I was fiddling with this combination for a while, and finally given
> up, deinstalled Widcomm BT stack, found out the latest MS BT stack on
> their driver development page and installed it in following order:
>
> 1) Clean up all BT stuff from your PC according to MS 811805 article.
>
> 2) Find latest available BT stack bt_stack_rtm.exe from MS driver
> development page.
>
> 3) Extract it and install Q323183_WXP_SP2_X86_ENU.EXE from it. Click
> on extracted BLUTOOTH.INF and install it by right click/install.
>
> 4) Download latest MS IntelliPoint for mouse (currently is available
> Intellipoint version 5, 5.0IP5_0ENG.exe) and MS IntelliType for
> keyboard (currently is available IntelliType version 5, ITP5_0Eng.exe)
> from http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/Do
>
> 5) Ensure that the batteries for the keyboard and mouse are installed.
>
> 6) Go to the Start-Control panel-Add hardware- next- no, I want to add
> new BT device
>
> 7) Add keyboard first, then the mouse. Use 'remember' option, and set
> that devices DO NOT need to authenticate first.
>
> 8) Of everything is OK; keyborad and mouse should be working. Usually
> mouse is worse, you have to disconnect your existing mouse and restart
> PC to make it work.
>
> And finally, links I get most of the stuff from:
>
> http://www.jonscaife.com/bt/index.html Jon Scaife Widcomm BT stack
> page, the best I could find
>
> http://weblogs.asp.net/bdesmond/arch.../09/31349.aspx Brian
> Desmond's Blog, fantastic site, not just for BT :-)
>
> Next step will be: :-)))
>
> http://www.iptel-now.de/HOWTO/BT_HID/bt_hid.mtml
>
> http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/hid.html
>
>
>
> TAKE CARE AND HAPPY BLUETOOTHING !!!!
>
>
> Edward <eddwo@nospamthanks.hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<Ow5eI5l$DHA.624@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl>...
>
>>Microsofts bluetooth mouse is standards compliant. It uses the HID
>>profile. The profile is supported by Microsofts stack that is included
>>with the bluetooth mouse and will be part of XP SP2, it is also
>>supported by the Widcomm stack version 1.4.1 and later, and by Mac OSX
>>10.2 and later. Apples and Logitechs mice use the same profile.
>>Logitechs mice will also work without special software.
>>
>>If you have bluetooth in your tablet chances are you have the Widcomm
>>stack installed. The sign is a "My Bluetooth Places" icon on the
>>desktop. If your version of Widcomm is less than 1.4.1 you might want to
>>check for an update supplied by the manufacturer. If that doesn't work
>>then with a bit of hackery you can get the updated versions of the
>>drivers supplied by other manufacturers to work with your hardware.
>>
>>When you get hold of SP2, and a suitable driver for the built in
>>bluetooth hardware you can choose to use either the Microsoft stack or
>>the Widcomm one to work with your mouse.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Chris De Herrera wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>From my understanding of what Microsoft did, they made their mouse only work
>>>with their Bluetooth dongle. I know that users have had problems using
>>>other devices with Microsoft's Bluetooth dongle as well.
>>>