When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.

The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually worked
on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar deal for
Vista.

It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of a
bone for our efforts.

Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.

Regards,

Gary MCSE

Gary,

Microsoft offered the x64 swap to help the adoption and it was one for one
for the same OS". Windows Vista is a brand new OS with new features, etc so
why in the world would they offer a SWAP? That is just silly.

If you really were a beta testers then you would know the TechBeta
participants are geting a copy of Windows Vista....so not sure where you are
headed here?


--
Josh
[url]http://windowsconnected.com[/url]

"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>
> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
> deal for Vista.
>
> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
> a bone for our efforts.
>
> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary MCSE[/color]

You caught me Josh...I am "So Silly" for wanting to be rewarded for my
input.

I am not sure why why in the world we would expect to be able to swap one
version of windows for another, its not like we swapped one version of
windows for another in the past...Now have we Josh?

Perhaps it's a way for Microsoft to recognize the assistance we testers have
given the Software giant in creating their New "Jewel" of an operating
system.

Not all of us can afford the Technet or MSDN subscription prices.

Besides, would it be coming out of your pocket Josh?
No, I didn't think so.

Maybe you were just "Joshing" Us!

Gary MCSE

<josh@windowsconnected.com> wrote in message
news:C2363AD9-C87F-410F-BB25-A32340A0B9E2@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Gary,
>
> Microsoft offered the x64 swap to help the adoption and it was one for one
> for the same OS". Windows Vista is a brand new OS with new features, etc
> so why in the world would they offer a SWAP? That is just silly.
>
> If you really were a beta testers then you would know the TechBeta
> participants are geting a copy of Windows Vista....so not sure where you
> are headed here?
>
>
> --
> Josh
> [url]http://windowsconnected.com[/url]
>
> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
>> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>>
>> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
>> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
>> deal for Vista.
>>
>> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
>> a bone for our efforts.
>>
>> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
>> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gary MCSE[/color]
>[/color]

"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>
> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
> deal for Vista.
>
> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
> a bone for our efforts.
>
> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary MCSE[/color]


If you were a beta tester (by definition) AND submitted a bug, you will get
a copy of Vista. If either of those do not apply to you - no product. If you
were a consumer that utilized the Preview Program, you are not a beta
tester. It is very easy. The official beta testers that were truely into
testing the product did not expect any return for their efforts. Why should
you?

"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>
> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
> deal for Vista.
>
> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
> a bone for our efforts.
>
> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary MCSE[/color]

All beta testers that submitted at least one bug report have been given
access to download a free copy of Vista Ultimate :-)

The beta program does not stipulate any reward for 'any' beta tester and, as
such, one shouldn't expect one. As Chris points out 'preview' testers are
not, unfortunately, classed as 'official' beta testers.

--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
[url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
[url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>
> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
> deal for Vista.
>
> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
> a bone for our efforts.
>
> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary MCSE[/color]

While it is understood that there are no benefits to testing anything for
Microsoft, it would be a nice gesture on their part to offer something to
those that do indeed help Microsoft to earn their shareholders the $$$ they
do.

Your definition of Beta testers/CPP is merely a way for Microsoft to keep
things from getting out of control..
They certainly do not turn away bug reports from anyone, regardless of their
classification as long as the proper channels are used in reporting.

I find it amazing how defensive all these hot**** MVP's get when you
question Microsoft's actions, like it is somehow going to affect their
pocketbooks.

It is in no way up to any of you anyway, so why do you bother wasting your
brain power defending Microsoft?

Are you incapable of asking that which may in some way offend the mighty
Microsoft?

It was just a thought, In a way, I was trying to help some of the poor
grunts out there that may not be able to buy a copy of windows to get a
copy...but NOOOO you guys just find it necessary to be the Microsoft police
squad and make excuses why you can't have a copy of Windows.

Every time there is a new Beta product, the same stupid question and
oppositions arise.

Seems like the same stupid people as well..

They must be lieutenants or captains by now.


"John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:%23eDJUg0CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> The beta program does not stipulate any reward for 'any' beta tester and,
> as such, one shouldn't expect one. As Chris points out 'preview' testers
> are not, unfortunately, classed as 'official' beta testers.
>
> --
> John Barnett MVP
> Associate Expert
> [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
> [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>
> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
> for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out
> of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in
> this mail/post..
>
> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
>> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>>
>> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
>> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
>> deal for Vista.
>>
>> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
>> a bone for our efforts.
>>
>> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
>> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Gary MCSE[/color]
>[/color]

Since you are getting both x86 and x64 Vista dvd's you do not need any swap
option like there was for XP x86 to x64. You simply use the one you want.

"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>
> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
> deal for Vista.
>
> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort of
> a bone for our efforts.
>
> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>
> Regards,
>
> Gary MCSE[/color]

This "hotcrap" MVP isn't sussing you (and the likes of you) because of
financial issues but because you're being extremely ungrateful for what you
did get!

This beta offered an unparalleled opportunity for the public to get in on
the action, so to speak. No other product offered so many builds and so
many opportunities for folks to get code - for that matter, the public had a
shot at the same final pre-release code that the private beta tester
community had. I don't know of any other program where that has happened.

Right about now, I can imagine some project manager looking at the whining
going on and saying, "Wow, was that a mistake! Guess we'll never do that
again."

Dudes and Dudettes, you came into this with your eyes open - or it's your
fault if you didn't. You got what you were promised - early access to Vista
and an optional and voluntary chance to provide some input on what you saw.
You came, you saw, you got what you were guaranteed you'd get.

Now it ain't enough.
Poor you.



"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:18158FB2-5402-4DB0-BD0C-B28748501D63@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> While it is understood that there are no benefits to testing anything for
> Microsoft, it would be a nice gesture on their part to offer something to
> those that do indeed help Microsoft to earn their shareholders the $$$
> they do.[/color]

Gary, if this so called 'hot****' MVP has anything detrimental to say about
Microsoft, this 'hot****' MVP **** well say's it!!!!


"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:18158FB2-5402-4DB0-BD0C-B28748501D63@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> While it is understood that there are no benefits to testing anything for
> Microsoft, it would be a nice gesture on their part to offer something to
> those that do indeed help Microsoft to earn their shareholders the $$$
> they do.
>
> Your definition of Beta testers/CPP is merely a way for Microsoft to keep
> things from getting out of control..
> They certainly do not turn away bug reports from anyone, regardless of
> their classification as long as the proper channels are used in reporting.
>
> I find it amazing how defensive all these hot**** MVP's get when you
> question Microsoft's actions, like it is somehow going to affect their
> pocketbooks.
>
> It is in no way up to any of you anyway, so why do you bother wasting your
> brain power defending Microsoft?
>
> Are you incapable of asking that which may in some way offend the mighty
> Microsoft?
>
> It was just a thought, In a way, I was trying to help some of the poor
> grunts out there that may not be able to buy a copy of windows to get a
> copy...but NOOOO you guys just find it necessary to be the Microsoft
> police squad and make excuses why you can't have a copy of Windows.
>
> Every time there is a new Beta product, the same stupid question and
> oppositions arise.
>
> Seems like the same stupid people as well..
>
> They must be lieutenants or captains by now.
>
>
> "John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:%23eDJUg0CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> The beta program does not stipulate any reward for 'any' beta tester and,
>> as such, one shouldn't expect one. As Chris points out 'preview' testers
>> are not, unfortunately, classed as 'official' beta testers.
>>
>> --
>> John Barnett MVP
>> Associate Expert
>> [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>
>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
>> for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out
>> of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in
>> this mail/post..
>>
>> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
>> news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
>>> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
>>> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>>>
>>> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
>>> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
>>> deal for Vista.
>>>
>>> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort
>>> of a bone for our efforts.
>>>
>>> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
>>> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gary MCSE[/color]
>>[/color]
>[/color]

"Richard G. Harper" <rgharper@email.com> wrote in message
news:e3eN458CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> This "hotcrap" MVP isn't sussing you (and the likes of you) because of financial issues but
> because you're being extremely ungrateful for what you did get!
>
> This beta offered an unparalleled opportunity for the public to get in on the action, so to
> speak. No other product offered so many builds and so many opportunities for folks to get
> code - for that matter, the public had a shot at the same final pre-release code that the
> private beta tester community had. I don't know of any other program where that has
> happened.[/color]
[color=blue]
> Right about now, I can imagine some project manager looking at the whining going on and
> saying, "Wow, was that a mistake! Guess we'll never do that again."[/color]

Absolutely not. They could care less about the whining,
doesn't phase them one bit.... hardly anyone from Microsoft
sees it. The data gathered from CPP is "invaluable".
That is exactly why Vista was made available to a larger
audience. The same goes for Office 2007.

I did not do the Vista beta expecting anything from Microsoft.

However, for the other side of the whiners to infer the CPP
testers input was lacking, they are mistaken. I read several
articles on the enormous about of bugs submitted by the CPP
testers and more importantly- Microsoft was literally flooded with
valuable information from Vista's error reporting service.
The wide release to the public and the information gathered
as a result, is why Microsoft didn't just make Beta 2 and RC1
available to CPP- they also released a couple interim builds
and RC2. The bugs submitted, error-reporting and crash data,
generated by CPP was an enormous help to Microsoft- far beyond
what the typical advanced Tech Beta testers would generate.

One last thing, which I have mentioned before. Mark V.
and myself were instrumental in figuring out how to protect
Vista's System Restore points in a dual booting configuration.
I was told numerous times my findings could not be correct-
by MVPs and ding dongs from Microsoft- almost inferring I
was either crazy or lying.
Jill Zoeller of Microsoft didn't even know what I was talking
about, even though I had sent the feedback to Microsoft several
times. Never saw anyone post about it. So, it took a CPP tester
of Beta2 two weeks to figure it out- in all the testing prior, no one
else had discovered the same thing.
By using Vista's Bitlocker or hiding Vista's partition from XP,
your restore points will *not* be deleted. Yet, still to this day,
you will not see anyone from Microsoft discuss this issue.

Anyway, I've never expected Microsoft to be generous.
I've kept my expectations of the company realistic/low.
I am not disappointed.

Some info on Vista, beta bugs, error-reporting and the
contributions of CPP testers below:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/09/technology/09vista.html?ei=5088&en=9270bf255d65d61d&ex=1318046400&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1163945607-1PDa+vCJqjq3iDwTnuxZ5Q[/url]

<q>
Vista has also been tested extensively. More than half a million computer users have installed
Vista test software, and 450,000 of the systems have sent crash data back to Microsoft.

The test data from the second beta release of Vista alone generated 5.5 petabytes of
information — the equivalent of the storage capacity of 690,000 home PC’s.

On Sept. 1, for example, Microsoft released a version of Vista called Release Candidate 1 to a
large group of outside testers, hoping to take advantage of their free time over the Labor Day
weekend.

Immediately, Mr. Garzia recalled, a wave of crash data fed back to Microsoft disclosed a newly
introduced bug that had been created by incompatibility with a software module (referred to as
a device driver) written by a partner company.

</q>


[url]http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/07/05/Windows-Vista-Bug-Analysis.aspx[/url]
<q>
the bulk of the open bugs have been entered into the system post-Beta 2
</q>

-With the exception of June 3rd, the bug pace has taken a significant upturn since Beta 2, and
the pace picked up even more when the CPP became available. This was to be expected, since Beta
2 was the first time Windows Vista was available to the general public.
That last point is an important one for several reasons. First off, the bulk of the open bugs
have been entered into the system post-Beta 2. This means that Microsoft still has their work
cut out for them. Second, though the average for the entire period is 81 bugs a day, a closer
look at the data since May 1 shows that the number of bugs per day is actually increasing, not
decreasing, trending closer to 200. While the amount of feedback is fantastic, and definitely
expected based on the number of people with access to Beta 2, one would hope that, at this
stage of the game, those number would start to go down, not up.

Michael, your solution for preventing the disappearance of system restore
points when dual booting with XP and Vista may not have been discussed on
the forums by Microsoft but, for what it is worth, most MVP's are aware of
your 'fix' and actively promote it.

I dual boot XP and Vista and have complained on quite a few occasions to
Microsoft regarding this issue. I gather that the problem will 'not be
fixed' because to do so would, if i remember correctly, mean extensive
alterations to the code of XP. Unfortunately, this is a pitiful excuse on
behalf of Microsoft. People have paid good money for XP and, ultimately,
will be paying similar for Vista. The paying public, in my opinion, are
entitled to expect the product to work correctly even in a dual boot
situation. This is currently not the case with XP and Vista.

Until your fix went public i too struggled with the system restore scenario.
Thankfully, to you, i can now, at least, retain system restore points in
both operating systems, thus saving the hassle of constantly re-imaging the
XP partition when things go wrong. For that you have my thanks.


--
John Barnett MVP
Associate Expert
[url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
[url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

"MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
news:e9bPtl%23CHHA.4620@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> "Richard G. Harper" <rgharper@email.com> wrote in message
> news:e3eN458CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> This "hotcrap" MVP isn't sussing you (and the likes of you) because of
>> financial issues but because you're being extremely ungrateful for what
>> you did get!
>>
>> This beta offered an unparalleled opportunity for the public to get in on
>> the action, so to speak. No other product offered so many builds and so
>> many opportunities for folks to get code - for that matter, the public
>> had a shot at the same final pre-release code that the private beta
>> tester community had. I don't know of any other program where that has
>> happened.[/color]
>[color=green]
>> Right about now, I can imagine some project manager looking at the
>> whining going on and saying, "Wow, was that a mistake! Guess we'll never
>> do that again."[/color]
>
> Absolutely not. They could care less about the whining,
> doesn't phase them one bit.... hardly anyone from Microsoft
> sees it. The data gathered from CPP is "invaluable".
> That is exactly why Vista was made available to a larger
> audience. The same goes for Office 2007.
>
> I did not do the Vista beta expecting anything from Microsoft.
>
> However, for the other side of the whiners to infer the CPP
> testers input was lacking, they are mistaken. I read several
> articles on the enormous about of bugs submitted by the CPP
> testers and more importantly- Microsoft was literally flooded with
> valuable information from Vista's error reporting service.
> The wide release to the public and the information gathered
> as a result, is why Microsoft didn't just make Beta 2 and RC1
> available to CPP- they also released a couple interim builds
> and RC2. The bugs submitted, error-reporting and crash data,
> generated by CPP was an enormous help to Microsoft- far beyond
> what the typical advanced Tech Beta testers would generate.
>
> One last thing, which I have mentioned before. Mark V.
> and myself were instrumental in figuring out how to protect
> Vista's System Restore points in a dual booting configuration.
> I was told numerous times my findings could not be correct-
> by MVPs and ding dongs from Microsoft- almost inferring I
> was either crazy or lying.
> Jill Zoeller of Microsoft didn't even know what I was talking
> about, even though I had sent the feedback to Microsoft several
> times. Never saw anyone post about it. So, it took a CPP tester
> of Beta2 two weeks to figure it out- in all the testing prior, no one
> else had discovered the same thing.
> By using Vista's Bitlocker or hiding Vista's partition from XP,
> your restore points will *not* be deleted. Yet, still to this day,
> you will not see anyone from Microsoft discuss this issue.
>
> Anyway, I've never expected Microsoft to be generous.
> I've kept my expectations of the company realistic/low.
> I am not disappointed.
>
> Some info on Vista, beta bugs, error-reporting and the
> contributions of CPP testers below:
>
> [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/09/technology/09vista.html?ei=5088&en=9270bf255d65d61d&ex=1318046400&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1163945607-1PDa+vCJqjq3iDwTnuxZ5Q[/url]
>
> <q>
> Vista has also been tested extensively. More than half a million computer
> users have installed Vista test software, and 450,000 of the systems have
> sent crash data back to Microsoft.
>
> The test data from the second beta release of Vista alone generated 5.5
> petabytes of information — the equivalent of the storage capacity of
> 690,000 home PC’s.
>
> On Sept. 1, for example, Microsoft released a version of Vista called
> Release Candidate 1 to a large group of outside testers, hoping to take
> advantage of their free time over the Labor Day weekend.
>
> Immediately, Mr. Garzia recalled, a wave of crash data fed back to
> Microsoft disclosed a newly introduced bug that had been created by
> incompatibility with a software module (referred to as a device driver)
> written by a partner company.
>
> </q>
>
>
> [url]http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/07/05/Windows-Vista-Bug-Analysis.aspx[/url]
> <q>
> the bulk of the open bugs have been entered into the system post-Beta 2
> </q>
>
> -With the exception of June 3rd, the bug pace has taken a significant
> upturn since Beta 2, and the pace picked up even more when the CPP became
> available. This was to be expected, since Beta 2 was the first time
> Windows Vista was available to the general public.
> That last point is an important one for several reasons. First off, the
> bulk of the open bugs have been entered into the system post-Beta 2. This
> means that Microsoft still has their work cut out for them. Second, though
> the average for the entire period is 81 bugs a day, a closer look at the
> data since May 1 shows that the number of bugs per day is actually
> increasing, not decreasing, trending closer to 200. While the amount of
> feedback is fantastic, and definitely expected based on the number of
> people with access to Beta 2, one would hope that, at this stage of the
> game, those number would start to go down, not up.
>[/color]

Thank you for the kind words, John.

Take care,

Michael

"John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:O4S2iN$CHHA.4132@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Michael, your solution for preventing the disappearance of system restore points when dual
> booting with XP and Vista may not have been discussed on the forums by Microsoft but, for
> what it is worth, most MVP's are aware of your 'fix' and actively promote it.
>
> I dual boot XP and Vista and have complained on quite a few occasions to Microsoft regarding
> this issue. I gather that the problem will 'not be fixed' because to do so would, if i
> remember correctly, mean extensive alterations to the code of XP. Unfortunately, this is a
> pitiful excuse on behalf of Microsoft. People have paid good money for XP and, ultimately,
> will be paying similar for Vista. The paying public, in my opinion, are entitled to expect
> the product to work correctly even in a dual boot situation. This is currently not the case
> with XP and Vista.
>
> Until your fix went public i too struggled with the system restore scenario. Thankfully, to
> you, i can now, at least, retain system restore points in both operating systems, thus saving
> the hassle of constantly re-imaging the XP partition when things go wrong. For that you have
> my thanks.
>
>
> --
> John Barnett MVP
> Associate Expert
> [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
> [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>
> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either
> expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this
> mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or
> consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions
> expressed in this mail/post..
>
> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr@dslr.net> wrote in message
> news:e9bPtl%23CHHA.4620@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>
>> "Richard G. Harper" <rgharper@email.com> wrote in message
>> news:e3eN458CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> This "hotcrap" MVP isn't sussing you (and the likes of you) because of financial issues but
>>> because you're being extremely ungrateful for what you did get!
>>>
>>> This beta offered an unparalleled opportunity for the public to get in on the action, so to
>>> speak. No other product offered so many builds and so many opportunities for folks to get
>>> code - for that matter, the public had a shot at the same final pre-release code that the
>>> private beta tester community had. I don't know of any other program where that has
>>> happened.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Right about now, I can imagine some project manager looking at the whining going on and
>>> saying, "Wow, was that a mistake! Guess we'll never do that again."[/color]
>>
>> Absolutely not. They could care less about the whining,
>> doesn't phase them one bit.... hardly anyone from Microsoft
>> sees it. The data gathered from CPP is "invaluable".
>> That is exactly why Vista was made available to a larger
>> audience. The same goes for Office 2007.
>>
>> I did not do the Vista beta expecting anything from Microsoft.
>>
>> However, for the other side of the whiners to infer the CPP
>> testers input was lacking, they are mistaken. I read several
>> articles on the enormous about of bugs submitted by the CPP
>> testers and more importantly- Microsoft was literally flooded with
>> valuable information from Vista's error reporting service.
>> The wide release to the public and the information gathered
>> as a result, is why Microsoft didn't just make Beta 2 and RC1
>> available to CPP- they also released a couple interim builds
>> and RC2. The bugs submitted, error-reporting and crash data,
>> generated by CPP was an enormous help to Microsoft- far beyond
>> what the typical advanced Tech Beta testers would generate.
>>
>> One last thing, which I have mentioned before. Mark V.
>> and myself were instrumental in figuring out how to protect
>> Vista's System Restore points in a dual booting configuration.
>> I was told numerous times my findings could not be correct-
>> by MVPs and ding dongs from Microsoft- almost inferring I
>> was either crazy or lying.
>> Jill Zoeller of Microsoft didn't even know what I was talking
>> about, even though I had sent the feedback to Microsoft several
>> times. Never saw anyone post about it. So, it took a CPP tester
>> of Beta2 two weeks to figure it out- in all the testing prior, no one
>> else had discovered the same thing.
>> By using Vista's Bitlocker or hiding Vista's partition from XP,
>> your restore points will *not* be deleted. Yet, still to this day,
>> you will not see anyone from Microsoft discuss this issue.
>>
>> Anyway, I've never expected Microsoft to be generous.
>> I've kept my expectations of the company realistic/low.
>> I am not disappointed.
>>
>> Some info on Vista, beta bugs, error-reporting and the
>> contributions of CPP testers below:
>>
>> [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/09/technology/09vista.html?ei=5088&en=9270bf255d65d61d&ex=1318046400&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1163945607-1PDa+vCJqjq3iDwTnuxZ5Q[/url]
>>
>> <q>
>> Vista has also been tested extensively. More than half a million computer users have
>> installed Vista test software, and 450,000 of the systems have sent crash data back to
>> Microsoft.
>>
>> The test data from the second beta release of Vista alone generated 5.5 petabytes of
>> information — the equivalent of the storage capacity of 690,000 home PC’s.
>>
>> On Sept. 1, for example, Microsoft released a version of Vista called Release Candidate 1 to
>> a large group of outside testers, hoping to take advantage of their free time over the Labor
>> Day weekend.
>>
>> Immediately, Mr. Garzia recalled, a wave of crash data fed back to Microsoft disclosed a
>> newly introduced bug that had been created by incompatibility with a software module
>> (referred to as a device driver) written by a partner company.
>>
>> </q>
>>
>>
>> [url]http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/07/05/Windows-Vista-Bug-Analysis.aspx[/url]
>> <q>
>> the bulk of the open bugs have been entered into the system post-Beta 2
>> </q>
>>
>> -With the exception of June 3rd, the bug pace has taken a significant upturn since Beta 2,
>> and the pace picked up even more when the CPP became available. This was to be expected,
>> since Beta 2 was the first time Windows Vista was available to the general public.
>> That last point is an important one for several reasons. First off, the bulk of the open
>> bugs have been entered into the system post-Beta 2. This means that Microsoft still has
>> their work cut out for them. Second, though the average for the entire period is 81 bugs a
>> day, a closer look at the data since May 1 shows that the number of bugs per day is actually
>> increasing, not decreasing, trending closer to 200. While the amount of feedback is
>> fantastic, and definitely expected based on the number of people with access to Beta 2, one
>> would hope that, at this stage of the game, those number would start to go down, not up.
>>[/color]
>[/color]

"Gary, if this so called 'hot****' MVP has anything detrimental to say about
Microsoft, this 'hot****' MVP **** well say's it!!!!"

I'm not quite sure what you meant by the sentence quoted above...
Actually, the word should have been "Hotshot", not the former.

Either a slip of the keyboard, Fat Fingers or a Freudian slip...not sure
which.
Either way, please elaborate...knowing full well that most Microsoft butt
kissers...MVP's as well as MCSE's rarely will say anything detrimental about
Lord Gates and his holy empire.

FYI...Be careful, in case he stops short, we may need the jaws of life to
pry your lips away from his butt cheeks.
Just FYI...to quote another around these parts...Just FYI...In other words
sir, you are not as important as you may think, regardless of how often you
pat yourself on the back.

Gary MCSE


"John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:%237ywMl9CHHA.4728@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Gary, if this so called 'hot****' MVP has anything detrimental to say
> about Microsoft, this 'hot****' MVP **** well say's it!!!!
>
>
> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:18158FB2-5402-4DB0-BD0C-B28748501D63@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> While it is understood that there are no benefits to testing anything for
>> Microsoft, it would be a nice gesture on their part to offer something to
>> those that do indeed help Microsoft to earn their shareholders the $$$
>> they do.
>>
>> Your definition of Beta testers/CPP is merely a way for Microsoft to keep
>> things from getting out of control..
>> They certainly do not turn away bug reports from anyone, regardless of
>> their classification as long as the proper channels are used in
>> reporting.
>>
>> I find it amazing how defensive all these hot**** MVP's get when you
>> question Microsoft's actions, like it is somehow going to affect their
>> pocketbooks.
>>
>> It is in no way up to any of you anyway, so why do you bother wasting
>> your brain power defending Microsoft?
>>
>> Are you incapable of asking that which may in some way offend the mighty
>> Microsoft?
>>
>> It was just a thought, In a way, I was trying to help some of the poor
>> grunts out there that may not be able to buy a copy of windows to get a
>> copy...but NOOOO you guys just find it necessary to be the Microsoft
>> police squad and make excuses why you can't have a copy of Windows.
>>
>> Every time there is a new Beta product, the same stupid question and
>> oppositions arise.
>>
>> Seems like the same stupid people as well..
>>
>> They must be lieutenants or captains by now.
>>
>>
>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
>> news:%23eDJUg0CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> The beta program does not stipulate any reward for 'any' beta tester
>>> and, as such, one shouldn't expect one. As Chris points out 'preview'
>>> testers are not, unfortunately, classed as 'official' beta testers.
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Barnett MVP
>>> Associate Expert
>>> [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>> [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>
>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
>>> any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
>>> accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not
>>> be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages
>>> arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions
>>> expressed in this mail/post..
>>>
>>> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
>>> news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...
>>>> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
>>>> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>>>>
>>>> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
>>>> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a similar
>>>> deal for Vista.
>>>>
>>>> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort
>>>> of a bone for our efforts.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and that
>>>> could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such deals.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Gary MCSE
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>[/color]

Hi Gary,

I think that what John is saying is that he, like me and many others I know
involved with the MVP program, are some of Microsoft's harshest critics.
Sure, there are some that are more of the marketing variety ("cheerleaders"
I call them, Microsoft likes the term "evangelist"), but they are the
smaller percentage. I've been on Microsoft's campus, spoke with executives,
program directors, segment leaders, coders, even the guy who sweeps the
floors, and never have I been afraid to tell them when I think they are
screwed up. For that matter, most of the MVP's I know are *quite* vocal when
it comes to Microsoft's occasional gaff, you just don't always see it as
there is no point to ranting in public newsgroups - no one that can initiate
change hears your screams here.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
[url]http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/[/url]
Windows help - [url]www.rickrogers.org[/url]

"Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:586C22A5-3B89-4D47-A782-863C19789ABD@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> "Gary, if this so called 'hot****' MVP has anything detrimental to say
> about
> Microsoft, this 'hot****' MVP **** well say's it!!!!"
>
> I'm not quite sure what you meant by the sentence quoted above...
> Actually, the word should have been "Hotshot", not the former.
>
> Either a slip of the keyboard, Fat Fingers or a Freudian slip...not sure
> which.
> Either way, please elaborate...knowing full well that most Microsoft butt
> kissers...MVP's as well as MCSE's rarely will say anything detrimental
> about Lord Gates and his holy empire.
>
> FYI...Be careful, in case he stops short, we may need the jaws of life to
> pry your lips away from his butt cheeks.
> Just FYI...to quote another around these parts...Just FYI...In other words
> sir, you are not as important as you may think, regardless of how often
> you pat yourself on the back.
>
> Gary MCSE
>
>
> "John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:%237ywMl9CHHA.4728@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Gary, if this so called 'hot****' MVP has anything detrimental to say
>> about Microsoft, this 'hot****' MVP **** well say's it!!!!
>>
>>
>> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
>> news:18158FB2-5402-4DB0-BD0C-B28748501D63@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
>>> While it is understood that there are no benefits to testing anything
>>> for Microsoft, it would be a nice gesture on their part to offer
>>> something to those that do indeed help Microsoft to earn their
>>> shareholders the $$$ they do.
>>>
>>> Your definition of Beta testers/CPP is merely a way for Microsoft to
>>> keep things from getting out of control..
>>> They certainly do not turn away bug reports from anyone, regardless of
>>> their classification as long as the proper channels are used in
>>> reporting.
>>>
>>> I find it amazing how defensive all these hot**** MVP's get when you
>>> question Microsoft's actions, like it is somehow going to affect their
>>> pocketbooks.
>>>
>>> It is in no way up to any of you anyway, so why do you bother wasting
>>> your brain power defending Microsoft?
>>>
>>> Are you incapable of asking that which may in some way offend the mighty
>>> Microsoft?
>>>
>>> It was just a thought, In a way, I was trying to help some of the poor
>>> grunts out there that may not be able to buy a copy of windows to get a
>>> copy...but NOOOO you guys just find it necessary to be the Microsoft
>>> police squad and make excuses why you can't have a copy of Windows.
>>>
>>> Every time there is a new Beta product, the same stupid question and
>>> oppositions arise.
>>>
>>> Seems like the same stupid people as well..
>>>
>>> They must be lieutenants or captains by now.
>>>
>>>
>>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelanceit@mvps.org.NOSPAM> wrote in message
>>> news:%23eDJUg0CHHA.3228@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> The beta program does not stipulate any reward for 'any' beta tester
>>>> and, as such, one shouldn't expect one. As Chris points out 'preview'
>>>> testers are not, unfortunately, classed as 'official' beta testers.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Barnett MVP
>>>> Associate Expert
>>>> [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>> [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>>
>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
>>>> any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
>>>> accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall
>>>> not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential
>>>> damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or
>>>> opinions expressed in this mail/post..
>>>>
>>>> "Gary MCSE" <kc5md@comcast.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:027EAD05-C986-4B74-868B-0AD4D6F1FD2F@microsoft.com...
>>>>> When we Beta tested Windows XP X64, we were given the opportunity to
>>>>> exchange a copy of XP for a Copy of X64.
>>>>>
>>>>> The very least that Microsoft could do for those of us that actually
>>>>> worked on helping Microsoft by filing bug reports is to offer a
>>>>> similar deal for Vista.
>>>>>
>>>>> It was fun to play with the Betas but real world, we deserve some sort
>>>>> of a bone for our efforts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Microsoft has the ability to see who actually sent bug reports and
>>>>> that could be a good way of determining who is eligible for anu such
>>>>> deals.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary MCSE
>>>>
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>[/color]