Trouble is that the "previous" Windows platform only remains usable for a
finite period of time. I kept my Windows 98se going for several years after
XP was launched, and over a period of a couple of year or so, on a 2nd PC,
gradually got up to speed with XP - and then finally moved to XP. ...and
during the following months eventually realised it was far superior to XP.
BUT, it certainly took some acclimatisation !!!!

regards, Richard


"Jon Acord" <JOn@theacords.biz> wrote in message
news:E84321E3-E2EC-43E4-B81C-FCEEE746644D@microsoft.com...
> 1. UAP. User account protection. This annoying feature will have you
> answering yes or no questions endlessly until you put it out of it's
> misery
> in user accounts. (Turn it off for God's sake). The bad news, then, is
> that
> UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has
> ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that ridiculous
> Clippy character from older Office versions.
>
> 2. The 'Aero Look'. Another annoying feature. Why? Every single time I
> open
> a program Vista informs me that it is switching to basic windows. The
> screen
> 'pops'. This is very disturbing. (I have tested this since it was named
> 'Longhorn'.
>
> 3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the same
> thing.
> Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM it'll move like
> molasses
> in the wintertime.
>
> 4. The price. WHY is it so over priced? The upgrade to Vista Ultimate
> alone
> is listed at Amazon.com for $259.00.
>
> 5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders like 'My
> Documents'. Microsoft has decided that the average User is too stupid to
> allow access to certain “Windows� files. This is insulting. I am offended.
> I
> know security is an issue and all, but locking a person out of their own
> document files is not the answer. The User is locked into a Roaming
> profile,
> thus they are disallowed access.
>
> 6. Broken promises
> Windows Vista was going to include a completely rewritten file system,
> based
> on SQL Server and once called Storage+. Later renamed to WinFS, this file
> system was downgraded to a "storage engine," meaning that it would, in
> fact,
> run on top of the decades-old NTFS file system. Then WinFS was stripped
> out
> of Windows Vista because the performance was so horrible.
>
> 7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At least
> all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you getting?
> Security?
> I don't know...with a good Firewall and anti-virus you're all set.
>
> 8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only be
> activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time, Microsoft in
> effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for Vista Premium. My
> original disc becomes a very expensive coaster. XP (and all previous
> WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as many times as you wished. I
> like to upgrade to the latest hardware. In the five years I have owned my
> retail XP, I have gone from the original P3 ïƒ* P4 2gHz* ïƒ*P4 3gHz ïƒ* P4
> 3.2gHz*
> ïƒ* dual Xeon 2.4gHz* ïƒ* dual Xeon 2.8gHz ïƒ* dual Xeon 3.2gHz* ïƒ* dual Xeon
> 3.4gHz
> (64bit)*. (* are new motherboards too.) That’s 8 different processors
> and 6
> motherboards. Oh and several new hard drives along the way as well. With
> Vista, I would be stuck at the P4 2gHz.
>
>
>
> ----------------
> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the "I
> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> this
> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then
> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>
> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com....vista.general

....or should all those "years" have been "months" ?? :-)

regards, Richard


"RJK" <notatospam********.com> wrote in message
news:OzVxRJc9GHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Trouble is that the "previous" Windows platform only remains usable for a
> finite period of time. I kept my Windows 98se going for several years
> after XP was launched, and over a period of a couple of year or so, on a
> 2nd PC, gradually got up to speed with XP - and then finally moved to XP.
> ...and during the following months eventually realised it was far superior
> to XP. BUT, it certainly took some acclimatisation !!!!
>
> regards, Richard
>
>
> "Jon Acord" <JOn@theacords.biz> wrote in message
> news:E84321E3-E2EC-43E4-B81C-FCEEE746644D@microsoft.com...
>> 1. UAP. User account protection. This annoying feature will have you
>> answering yes or no questions endlessly until you put it out of it's
>> misery
>> in user accounts. (Turn it off for God's sake). The bad news, then, is
>> that
>> UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has
>> ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that
>> ridiculous
>> Clippy character from older Office versions.
>>
>> 2. The 'Aero Look'. Another annoying feature. Why? Every single time I
>> open
>> a program Vista informs me that it is switching to basic windows. The
>> screen
>> 'pops'. This is very disturbing. (I have tested this since it was named
>> 'Longhorn'.
>>
>> 3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the same
>> thing.
>> Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM it'll move like
>> molasses
>> in the wintertime.
>>
>> 4. The price. WHY is it so over priced? The upgrade to Vista Ultimate
>> alone
>> is listed at Amazon.com for $259.00.
>>
>> 5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders like 'My
>> Documents'. Microsoft has decided that the average User is too stupid to
>> allow access to certain “Windows� files. This is insulting. I am
>> offended. I
>> know security is an issue and all, but locking a person out of their own
>> document files is not the answer. The User is locked into a Roaming
>> profile,
>> thus they are disallowed access.
>>
>> 6. Broken promises
>> Windows Vista was going to include a completely rewritten file system,
>> based
>> on SQL Server and once called Storage+. Later renamed to WinFS, this file
>> system was downgraded to a "storage engine," meaning that it would, in
>> fact,
>> run on top of the decades-old NTFS file system. Then WinFS was stripped
>> out
>> of Windows Vista because the performance was so horrible.
>>
>> 7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At least
>> all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you getting?
>> Security?
>> I don't know...with a good Firewall and anti-virus you're all set.
>>
>> 8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only be
>> activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time, Microsoft
>> in
>> effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for Vista Premium. My
>> original disc becomes a very expensive coaster. XP (and all previous
>> WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as many times as you wished.
>> I
>> like to upgrade to the latest hardware. In the five years I have owned
>> my
>> retail XP, I have gone from the original P3 ïƒ* P4 2gHz* ïƒ*P4 3gHz ïƒ* P4
>> 3.2gHz*
>> ïƒ* dual Xeon 2.4gHz* ïƒ* dual Xeon 2.8gHz ïƒ* dual Xeon 3.2gHz* ïƒ* dual Xeon
>> 3.4gHz
>> (64bit)*. (* are new motherboards too.) That’s 8 different processors
>> and 6
>> motherboards. Oh and several new hard drives along the way as well.
>> With
>> Vista, I would be stuck at the P4 2gHz.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------
>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
>> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
>> "I
>> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
>> this
>> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
>> then
>> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
>>
>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com....vista.general
>

Don't forget that Microsoft will benefit financially more from Vista at a
much greater rate and with much less outlay in material than if GM released
a complete new line of automobiles.

It is hard to feel sorry for them, really it is.

The "new" terms of the Retail EULA is an attempt to change the rules and
give only OEM EULA value to buyers who pay full Retail price. In some
countries it may even violate notions of 'fair use' written into the laws.

Don't worry then about Microsoft's profits. They were rolling in dough long
before WPA, WGA, WGA N and subscription licencing. They make inordinate
amounts for their labour expended, far more than most companies.

So it's kind of hard to accept their tightening the screws on the legitimate
customer. Boxing him or her in with more and more restrictions and invasion
of privacies, lock outs, and crummy deals. Simply for even higher
astronomical profit.

If Microsoft were profiting more on the level of a GM or Exxon or somesuch
for labour and material expended then it would be easier to understand. But
Microsoft expends only so much on labour and very very little on material
[CD and waifer thin pamplet?? Or a stack of servers for downloads?] yet
reaps so very very much.

Being in such an exaulted position, you'd think they show more respect for
the tech enthusiasts who helped put them there? But no, we get the invasive
seach, report and seizure, cop judge jury and executioner on our private
papers WGA N and a crummy new retail EULA. I suppose we could walk, but
there is no substantive competition on the x32/64 desktop because, although
they do not have a true monopoly, they have a defacto one.

Yet the PC has become almost essential for many of us.

And Microsoft can do better - and the proof is because it has. I cite what
they've done over at MSDN. They give away Express editions of SQL Server,
C#, VB, C++, J++ and web developer. Sure an MSDN subscription is pricey - a
good grand plus - but on the other hand they are accomodating to newer and
or poorer developers and/or people who only need lighter packages. Now they
may have an alterior motive [great free packages offered elsewhere] .. but
it shows what a good relationship they are capable of having with their
customer base if they want to.

And to your main point about "no cost"? I've spent thousands of dollars on
Microsoft software. Umpteen copies of Windows, MSDN subscription, 3 retail
packages of Flight Stimulator [you should try FS X - really cool], Visual
C++, retail Works, Office etc. etc. and so on and on .. even several copies
of Plus! ..

So when Vista is released it will be a sad day for the law abiding tech
enthusiast who will see an otherwise legitimate road closed and will have to
seriously curtail his or her enthusiasm and be very selective conservative
about motherboard upgrades.

Hoping_for_better wrote:
>> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I
>> already find the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use
>> your product at little or no cost, I don't care if you spent
>> millions so I can have all the featrures and benefits, you have the
>> audacity to actually ask money for it since millions are stealing it
>> and that s WHY we have to take drastic measures, thank you very
>> much" Good to see this web site is no different than most others. As
>> the saying goes "no good deed will go unpunished". Thanks!
>>
>> "Jon Acord" wrote:
>>
>>> 1. UAP. User account protection. This annoying feature will have you
>>> answering yes or no questions endlessly until you put it out of
>>> it's misery in user accounts. (Turn it off for God's sake). The bad
>>> news, then, is that UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying
>>> feature that Microsoft has ever added to any software product, and
>>> yes, that includes that ridiculous Clippy character from older
>>> Office versions.
>>>
>>> 2. The 'Aero Look'. Another annoying feature. Why? Every single
>>> time I open a program Vista informs me that it is switching to
>>> basic windows. The screen 'pops'. This is very disturbing. (I have
>>> tested this since it was named 'Longhorn'.
>>>
>>> 3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the
>>> same thing. Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM
>>> it'll move like molasses in the wintertime.
>>>
>>> 4. The price. WHY is it so over priced? The upgrade to Vista
>>> Ultimate alone is listed at Amazon.com for $259.00.
>>>
>>> 5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders
>>> like 'My Documents'. Microsoft has decided that the average User is
>>> too stupid to allow access to certain "Windows" files. This is
>>> insulting. I am offended. I know security is an issue and all, but
>>> locking a person out of their own document files is not the answer.
>>> The User is locked into a Roaming profile, thus they are disallowed
>>> access.
>>>
>>> 6. Broken promises
>>> Windows Vista was going to include a completely rewritten file
>>> system, based on SQL Server and once called Storage+. Later renamed
>>> to WinFS, this file system was downgraded to a "storage engine,"
>>> meaning that it would, in fact, run on top of the decades-old NTFS
>>> file system. Then WinFS was stripped out of Windows Vista because
>>> the performance was so horrible.
>>>
>>> 7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At
>>> least all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you
>>> getting? Security? I don't know...with a good Firewall and
>>> anti-virus you're all set.
>>>
>>> 8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only
>>> be activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time,
>>> Microsoft in effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for
>>> Vista Premium. My original disc becomes a very expensive coaster.
>>> XP (and all previous WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as
>>> many times as you wished. I like to upgrade to the latest
>>> hardware. In the five years I have owned my retail XP, I have gone
>>> from the original P3 ? P4 2gHz* ?P4 3gHz ? P4 3.2gHz* ? dual Xeon
>>> 2.4gHz* ? dual Xeon 2.8gHz ? dual Xeon 3.2gHz* ? dual Xeon 3.4gHz
>>> (64bit)*. (* are new motherboards too.) That's 8 different
>>> processors and 6 motherboards. Oh and several new hard drives
>>> along the way as well. With Vista, I would be stuck at the P4
>>> 2gHz.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------
>>> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to
>>> the suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion,
>>> click the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see
>>> the button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the
>>> Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the
>>> message pane.
>>>
>>> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com....vista.general

Why not make analogy to physical entities? Microsoft "ties" the software to
hardware. Heck, in some EULAs they've talked about the software becomes
"one" with the hardware. They want it both ways with respect to restrictions
placed on you and profits achieved, but neither way when it comes to any
responsibillity.

Alexander Suhovey wrote:
>> "Phil Miller" <philsoft@chartermi.net.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:uqLJhrZ9GHA.4288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I
>>>> already find the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use
>>>> your product at little or
>>>> no cost,
>>>
>>> Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use
>>> that product will be decided by me."
>> As long as EULAs are around, second statement is not the case. It's
>> sad but that's fact. And it's not just Microsoft.
>>
>>> Imagine if you went to Kroger and bought 20 lbs.
>> Please stop trying to make analogies with physical entities. It does
>> not make any sence. Software is not a physical object you buy from
>> vendor and you don't own it.
>>
>> --
>> Alexander Suhovey

What if they are the only place in town, heck in the whole country? And hold
all the patents and have a defacto monopoly? Then you starve to death.

Besides, although Kruger is a law unto itself and makes up all sorts of
rules that it publishes in its hamburger EULA, there are greater rules than
Krugers rules, including consumer protection laws and the Bill of Rights.

Clint wrote:
>> And if you don't like Kroger's rules, you're perfectly free to walk
>> out the door and go to the next vendor. Have fun with that!
>>
>> Clint
>>
>> "Phil Miller" <philsoft@chartermi.net.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:uqLJhrZ9GHA.4288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I
>>>> already find the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use
>>>> your product at little or
>>>> no cost,
>>>
>>> Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use
>>> that product will be decided by me." Imagine if you went to Kroger
>>> and bought 20 lbs. of hamburger, and Kroger told you that you were
>>> only allowed to make spaghetti with that meat. If you wanted to
>>> make lasagna you would need to buy another 20 lb package. Next
>>> thing you know MS will be telling you that you can not play your
>>> old XBox games on your new XBox 360 because they were only licensed
>>> to play on one console.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
>>>> and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it
>>>> since millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take
>>>> drastic measures, thank you very much"
>>>
>>> Piracy is not my problem. If you want to make it your problem then
>>> have at it.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good to see this web site is no different than most
>>>> others.
>>>
>>> Gee... If most others are the same that should tell you that there
>>> is a REASON for it.

They don't have a monopoly, and they're not the only place in town. Go buy
a Mac. Use Linux.

Clint

"SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
news:%23ZMNKFe9GHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> What if they are the only place in town, heck in the whole country? And
> hold
> all the patents and have a defacto monopoly? Then you starve to death.
>
> Besides, although Kruger is a law unto itself and makes up all sorts of
> rules that it publishes in its hamburger EULA, there are greater rules
> than
> Krugers rules, including consumer protection laws and the Bill of Rights.
>
> Clint wrote:
>>> And if you don't like Kroger's rules, you're perfectly free to walk
>>> out the door and go to the next vendor. Have fun with that!
>>>
>>> Clint
>>>
>>> "Phil Miller" <philsoft@chartermi.net.nospam> wrote in message
>>> news:uqLJhrZ9GHA.4288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I
>>>>> already find the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use
>>>>> your product at little or
>>>>> no cost,
>>>>
>>>> Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use
>>>> that product will be decided by me." Imagine if you went to Kroger
>>>> and bought 20 lbs. of hamburger, and Kroger told you that you were
>>>> only allowed to make spaghetti with that meat. If you wanted to
>>>> make lasagna you would need to buy another 20 lb package. Next
>>>> thing you know MS will be telling you that you can not play your
>>>> old XBox games on your new XBox 360 because they were only licensed
>>>> to play on one console.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
>>>>> and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it
>>>>> since millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take
>>>>> drastic measures, thank you very much"
>>>>
>>>> Piracy is not my problem. If you want to make it your problem then
>>>> have at it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Good to see this web site is no different than most
>>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> Gee... If most others are the same that should tell you that there
>>>> is a REASON for it.
>
>

Clint wrote:
> They don't have a monopoly,

For all practical purposes they do.

> and they're not the only place in town. Go buy
> a Mac.

Too expensive.

> Use Linux.

Too complicated for most users.

> Clint

So, you were saying?

Alias
>
> "SESSION_EVENT" <session@event.net.net.net> wrote in message
> news:%23ZMNKFe9GHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> What if they are the only place in town, heck in the whole country? And
>> hold
>> all the patents and have a defacto monopoly? Then you starve to death.
>>
>> Besides, although Kruger is a law unto itself and makes up all sorts of
>> rules that it publishes in its hamburger EULA, there are greater rules
>> than
>> Krugers rules, including consumer protection laws and the Bill of Rights.
>>
>> Clint wrote:
>>>> And if you don't like Kroger's rules, you're perfectly free to walk
>>>> out the door and go to the next vendor. Have fun with that!
>>>>
>>>> Clint
>>>>
>>>> "Phil Miller" <philsoft@chartermi.net.nospam> wrote in message
>>>> news:uqLJhrZ9GHA.4288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I
>>>>>> already find the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use
>>>>>> your product at little or
>>>>>> no cost,
>>>>> Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use
>>>>> that product will be decided by me." Imagine if you went to Kroger
>>>>> and bought 20 lbs. of hamburger, and Kroger told you that you were
>>>>> only allowed to make spaghetti with that meat. If you wanted to
>>>>> make lasagna you would need to buy another 20 lb package. Next
>>>>> thing you know MS will be telling you that you can not play your
>>>>> old XBox games on your new XBox 360 because they were only licensed
>>>>> to play on one console.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
>>>>>> and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it
>>>>>> since millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take
>>>>>> drastic measures, thank you very much"
>>>>> Piracy is not my problem. If you want to make it your problem then
>>>>> have at it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Good to see this web site is no different than most
>>>>>> others.
>>>>> Gee... If most others are the same that should tell you that there
>>>>> is a REASON for it.
>>
>
>

You don't starve... you simply eat spaghetti, just like Bill wants you to.

Hile Microsoft!

"SESSION_EVENT" wrote:

> What if they are the only place in town, heck in the whole country? And hold
> all the patents and have a defacto monopoly? Then you starve to death.
>
> Besides, although Kruger is a law unto itself and makes up all sorts of
> rules that it publishes in its hamburger EULA, there are greater rules than
> Krugers rules, including consumer protection laws and the Bill of Rights.
>
> Clint wrote:
> >> And if you don't like Kroger's rules, you're perfectly free to walk
> >> out the door and go to the next vendor. Have fun with that!
> >>
> >> Clint
> >>
> >> "Phil Miller" <philsoft@chartermi.net.nospam> wrote in message
> >> news:uqLJhrZ9GHA.4288@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >>>
> >>>> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I
> >>>> already find the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use
> >>>> your product at little or
> >>>> no cost,
> >>>
> >>> Should read "I'll use your product at the price you set. HOW I use
> >>> that product will be decided by me." Imagine if you went to Kroger
> >>> and bought 20 lbs. of hamburger, and Kroger told you that you were
> >>> only allowed to make spaghetti with that meat. If you wanted to
> >>> make lasagna you would need to buy another 20 lb package. Next
> >>> thing you know MS will be telling you that you can not play your
> >>> old XBox games on your new XBox 360 because they were only licensed
> >>> to play on one console.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
> >>>> and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it
> >>>> since millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take
> >>>> drastic measures, thank you very much"
> >>>
> >>> Piracy is not my problem. If you want to make it your problem then
> >>> have at it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Good to see this web site is no different than most
> >>>> others.
> >>>
> >>> Gee... If most others are the same that should tell you that there
> >>> is a REASON for it.
>
>
>

My opinion on XP vs. Vista is, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". In
XP, things just worked. Vista, there seems to be more things about it you
have to do before things work like they once did in XP. My opinion is,
unless you're going to utilize Vista's new features, there's little or no
reason to upgrade. But then again, when you think about it, many of Vista's
main features are or will be backported into XP or already exist in other
third-party softwares. Windows Defender, Windows Media Player 11, IE7,
Sidebar, and the like.
Also, if you want Flip-3D on XP and are willing to pay for it, get
TopDesk or use the trial for free for 30 days. If you want live thumbnail
tabs, get the powertoy from Microsoft that allows you to do so. If you want
window shadows, get the YZ shadow software (free) - I've figured out how to
get it to startup with Windows. If you want Aero Glass or similar, get
WindowBlinds. If you want most of the search features of Vista, download
Microsoft's Desktop Search. If you want the Sidebar, there are many
third-party sidebar programs out there for free, and I've heard rumors that
even Vista's sidebar will be coming to XP eventually. If you want the Aero
Cursors, just copy them from Vista and put them on XP - whether it's "legal"
or not, that's another question. If you want the wallpapers from Vista,
just copy them from Vista and put them on XP. You pretty much in most ways
can turn XP into Vista, only more stable and not as heavy on resources.
Now I'm not saying you shouldn't buy Vista, I'm just saying that most of
the advantages Vista has to offer can be had on XP.
"disabled" <disabled@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5FB677B4-6961-43DB-AE0D-8CA5854E72F4@microsoft.com...
> What bugs me the most about Vista are the different editions, i.e. that we
> are given 'Vista Ultimate' to test which is very cool and has the whole
> toot,
> of course it's OK for those who are testing the RC1 and RC2 which is
> basically for nothing...Us testers are getting so use to the 'Ultimate
> version' that won't want any other version, but sad to say the Ultimate
> version will propably be very expensive for some of us to purchase and
> would
> rather stick to Windows XP than go for anything less than 'Windows Vista
> Ultimate'...Will we get any special rates?...NO! I didn't think so or am I
> jumping the gun?...
>
> "Rob" wrote:
>
>> I've wanted to like Vista so much but I just haven't been able to.
>>
>> Power management bugs from Beta 2 still show up in RC2 (5744). If that
>> doesn't erode confidence, I don't know what does.
>>
>> The UI is good in areas and horrible in others. There are many areas in
>> the
>> UI that are quite unintuitive.
>>
>> But the deal breaker for me, and this isn't necessarily MSFT's fault, is
>> I
>> have numerous programs that are designed for XP that have too many issues
>> with Vista and are unusable in a Vista environment.
>>
>> I agree about XP being too good. It's a lean OS that just works.

Jon

Due to all I've been reading last couple of Days I'm thinking of opting out
of being a Beta tester for Vista RC2.
What is the point of testing a program That I will most likely not buy
unless I hear MS has changed the limit of two installs.Once Vista is released
I'll call MS and get the truth straight from the "Horses mouth" and if all
that I've read still holds true I will voice my disappointment.

Dan

"Jon Acord" wrote:

> Microsoft only cares about one thing $$$ money. As in how to get it, and
> keep it. Microsoft is a corporation. A corporation cannot feel. It has no
> heart. If it had a heart its most precious would be it's money. I wish I
> could keep the Vista dream alive. But, I think it died with 'Longhorn'. I
> plan on keeping XP for a long, long time.
> I anticipate Microsoft will wake up sooner or later and realize that Vista
> is a mistake.
> For the afore mentioned reasons I started this thread. Writing this for me
> is a closure. I beta tested the software since it was Longhorn.
>
> "disabled" wrote:
>
> > What bugs me the most about Vista are the different editions, i.e. that we
> > are given 'Vista Ultimate' to test which is very cool and has the whole toot,
> > of course it's OK for those who are testing the RC1 and RC2 which is
> > basically for nothing...Us testers are getting so use to the 'Ultimate
> > version' that won't want any other version, but sad to say the Ultimate
> > version will propably be very expensive for some of us to purchase and would
> > rather stick to Windows XP than go for anything less than 'Windows Vista
> > Ultimate'...Will we get any special rates?...NO! I didn't think so or am I
> > jumping the gun?...
> >
> > "Rob" wrote:
> >
> > > I've wanted to like Vista so much but I just haven't been able to.
> > >
> > > Power management bugs from Beta 2 still show up in RC2 (5744). If that
> > > doesn't erode confidence, I don't know what does.
> > >
> > > The UI is good in areas and horrible in others. There are many areas in the
> > > UI that are quite unintuitive.
> > >
> > > But the deal breaker for me, and this isn't necessarily MSFT's fault, is I
> > > have numerous programs that are designed for XP that have too many issues
> > > with Vista and are unusable in a Vista environment.
> > >
> > > I agree about XP being too good. It's a lean OS that just works.

Dan, if you do call and get 'some sort of truth' from MS could you please
get back here and report. I'm thinking along the same lines in regards to
getting Vista, I know that at some point in the distant future I'll have to
get it, and that's no consolation at all.

--
Ray

"Daniel" <Daniel@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FE8457E6-7C6A-4631-9AA0-DED0B5AB2A70@microsoft.com...
> Jon
>
> Due to all I've been reading last couple of Days I'm thinking of opting
> out
> of being a Beta tester for Vista RC2.
> What is the point of testing a program That I will most likely not buy
> unless I hear MS has changed the limit of two installs.Once Vista is
> released
> I'll call MS and get the truth straight from the "Horses mouth" and if all
> that I've read still holds true I will voice my disappointment.
>
> Dan
>

Right...I vividly recall when I 'upgraded' from Windows 98 SE to the New
Windows millinium...after a while, and a few hundred BSODs, I decided it was
not superior to 98. In fact, anything but the word 'superior' came to
mind... LMAO ;-)

"RJK" wrote:

> ....or should all those "years" have been "months" ?? :-)
>
> regards, Richard
>
>
> "RJK" <notatospam********.com> wrote in message
> news:OzVxRJc9GHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> > Trouble is that the "previous" Windows platform only remains usable for a
> > finite period of time. I kept my Windows 98se going for several years
> > after XP was launched, and over a period of a couple of year or so, on a
> > 2nd PC, gradually got up to speed with XP - and then finally moved to XP.
> > ...and during the following months eventually realised it was far superior
> > to XP. BUT, it certainly took some acclimatisation !!!!
> >
> > regards, Richard
> >
> >
> > "Jon Acord" <JOn@theacords.biz> wrote in message
> > news:E84321E3-E2EC-43E4-B81C-FCEEE746644D@microsoft.com...
> >> 1. UAP. User account protection. This annoying feature will have you
> >> answering yes or no questions endlessly until you put it out of it's
> >> misery
> >> in user accounts. (Turn it off for God's sake). The bad news, then, is
> >> that
> >> UAP is a sad, sad joke. It's the most annoying feature that Microsoft has
> >> ever added to any software product, and yes, that includes that
> >> ridiculous
> >> Clippy character from older Office versions.
> >>
> >> 2. The 'Aero Look'. Another annoying feature. Why? Every single time I
> >> open
> >> a program Vista informs me that it is switching to basic windows. The
> >> screen
> >> 'pops'. This is very disturbing. (I have tested this since it was named
> >> 'Longhorn'.
> >>
> >> 3. Vista requires roughly 3 times the RAM that XP uses to do the same
> >> thing.
> >> Unless your PC is at least 3 GHz with 2 Gigs of RAM it'll move like
> >> molasses
> >> in the wintertime.
> >>
> >> 4. The price. WHY is it so over priced? The upgrade to Vista Ultimate
> >> alone
> >> is listed at Amazon.com for $259.00.
> >>
> >> 5. No access to basic windows files. I am locked out of folders like 'My
> >> Documents'. Microsoft has decided that the average User is too stupid to
> >> allow access to certain “Windows� files. This is insulting. I am
> >> offended. I
> >> know security is an issue and all, but locking a person out of their own
> >> document files is not the answer. The User is locked into a Roaming
> >> profile,
> >> thus they are disallowed access.
> >>
> >> 6. Broken promises
> >> Windows Vista was going to include a completely rewritten file system,
> >> based
> >> on SQL Server and once called Storage+. Later renamed to WinFS, this file
> >> system was downgraded to a "storage engine," meaning that it would, in
> >> fact,
> >> run on top of the decades-old NTFS file system. Then WinFS was stripped
> >> out
> >> of Windows Vista because the performance was so horrible.
> >>
> >> 7. The pain of migration. And why not just stay with Windows Xp? At least
> >> all of my programs work. Think: what big advantage are you getting?
> >> Security?
> >> I don't know...with a good Firewall and anti-virus you're all set.
> >>
> >> 8. EULA. The EULA on a retail copy now states that VISTA can only be
> >> activated twice. If I decide to build a new PC a third time, Microsoft
> >> in
> >> effect is telling me to shell out another $400.00 for Vista Premium. My
> >> original disc becomes a very expensive coaster. XP (and all previous
> >> WINDOWS) allowed a retail copy to be moved as many times as you wished.
> >> I
> >> like to upgrade to the latest hardware. In the five years I have owned
> >> my
> >> retail XP, I have gone from the original P3 ïƒ* P4 2gHz* ïƒ*P4 3gHz ïƒ* P4
> >> 3.2gHz*
> >> ïƒ* dual Xeon 2.4gHz* ïƒ* dual Xeon 2.8gHz ïƒ* dual Xeon 3.2gHz* ïƒ* dual Xeon
> >> 3.4gHz
> >> (64bit)*. (* are new motherboards too.) That’s 8 different processors
> >> and 6
> >> motherboards. Oh and several new hard drives along the way as well.
> >> With
> >> Vista, I would be stuck at the P4 2gHz.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------
> >> This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
> >> suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click the
> >> "I
> >> Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the button, follow
> >> this
> >> link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft Web-based Newsreader and
> >> then
> >> click "I Agree" in the message pane.
> >>
> >> http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/com....vista.general
> >
>
>

"Jon Acord" <JOn@theacords.biz> wrote in message
news:7CE36163-F07B-44B5-8F6F-7A509473F144@microsoft.com...
> 1. Right Bill. Protect the poor uninformed User from themselves. Is
> that
> what you mean? Obviously the end User isn't smart enough to do this on
> its
> own, right smart guy?

So far, apparently. Either the majority of users don't care enough to look
at what they get in a link before clicking it, or letting something run
willy-nilly on said systems. It wasn't really till SP2 for XP that people
started paying attention to Windows Update, and only then because it
would/could force you to do so.


> 2. More than half of my programs were not compatible with Vista's Aero
> look. The annoying switch back and forth between Aero and Windows
> standard
> was flaky, and more than a little annoying.

And that is Microsoft's fault how? If you were running a 16 bit program on
64 bit Windows (not that you can anyways) is that Microsoft's fault it
doesn't work? Nope, it's the app developer. Its not hard to make things
Vista compatible.


> 3. You are very wrong about this. There is something called 'common
> sense'. Check out task manger when running the same program with Vista,
> as
> opposed to XP. Vista does use much more.

No it doesn't. My common apps are Office, World of Warcraft, IL-2 Sturmovik,
IE and WMP. All of them use about the same as when on XP.

> 4. I do not agree. Vista's prices are MUCH higher. The full version of
> Vista Ultimate is listed as $400.00 plus at Amazon. Microsoft recently
> had
> Amazon pull the prices, probably because they intend to raise them,
> again....$$$ M$

You need to check your math again. XP Pro is not the equivalent package as
Windows Vista Ultimate.

> 5. Wrong. My Documents exit, I moved my Folder over from XP. It was
> silly
> to eliminate it. Let me get this straight, in your own words...locking
> out
> operating system files for the average joe is a good thing? Maybe in your
> case, this is true.

Please read up a bit more on My Document behaviour under Vista and get back
to me OK?
Locking out OS files for the Average Joe is a VERY good thing. To think
otherwise is a bit naive.

> 6. Slippage? Well then, maybe the price should slip too.

The equivalent Vista version is slightly LESS expensive than XP.

> 7. For the same reason that people moved to say, Windows Millinium?
> Everyone should remember Microsoft;s problem child. Windows Millinium was
> a
> disgrace. So no, Just because a new OS comes out does not mean everyone
> should rush in to upgrade.

This is true in some cases, however the level of advantages that Vista gives
over XP is quite similar to what 95 gave to Windows 3.11.

> 8. EULA is totally unfair. Nowhere with any previous version of the
> Windows OS with a retail copy the User was able to move it to a new PC, as
> long as they had uninstalled the old one, or it no longer existed. Vista
> represents GREED, not need, or security.

As I said I have not read the EULA yet, and won't comment till I do.


Bill F.

"Hoping_for_better" wrote:

> Yeah!, not 2 seconds on this web site for the first time and I already find
> the typical "You can't tell me what to do, I'll use your product at little or
> no cost, I don't care if you spent millions so I can have all the featrures
> and benefits, you have the audacity to actually ask money for it since
> millions are stealing it and that s WHY we have to take drastic measures,
> thank you very much" Good to see this web site is no different than most
> others. As the saying goes "no good deed will go unpunished". Thanks!
>

Re-read the original post. The main complaint is really NOT the price
(other than it is 2-3 times what previous XP was for comparable versions) it
is the discrepancy between the promises and hype over the last 5 years of
development compared to what is coming out. They promised a Ferrari (sleek,
fancy, top of the line), delivered a Hummer (clunky resource hog) and are
charging for a Mercedes.

I too have a retail copy of XP and it has been migrated through may
motherboards and processors. I have a side business fixing computers, so
when I upgrade, the old parts are sold to clients. I get my upgrade mostly
paid for, they get a better computer and everyone is happy. Note that I do
NOT sell or try to install my copy of XP on their computer - they want XP,
they buy their own copy which I will help them shop for.

The nature of computer hardware is change. To have a retail EULA read like
a OEM (bulk discount priced) EULA rankles. The geeks that like to try new
things are the driving force of the market changes. What was cutting edge 2
years ago is in the Walmart specials today - because enough cutting edge
people (read - geeks) were enthused about it.

Microsoft makes games. Microsoft makes hardware. Now they are making an OS
that is DISCOURAGING people from trying new things because while $80 for a
game and $200 for a new video card may be doable, the chance that another
change will trigger the need for another $400 OS isn't reality.