I was reading the latest edition of TechNet Magazine that I received in
the mail this week; when I came across an article that inadvertently
associated itself with one of the issues that we run across in
newsgroups consistently. This problem can be described in so many
different ways by religious newsgroup participates like myself. What it
boils down to is the very thing we preach day in and day out: Research
and Hands-on Experience. It also touches on abandoning your
preconceptions when comparing older technology to newer technology.



You can find the article at:
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
Enjoy.



P.S. I also included this article with the Vista and XP newsgroups in
hopes that individuals seeking help in those areas will read Mark's
article and perform research and troubleshooting steps before posting
their issues in newsgroups for others to "give them the answer."





Michael D. Alligood

MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,

Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,

CIW Certified Instructor



The Classroom Blog <http://www.yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom>



CertGuard Member

The Stronghold for Excellence in I.T. Certification

[url]www.CertGuard.com[/url] <http://www.certguard.com/>

On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:10:33 +0000, Michael D. Alligood wrote:
[color=blue]
> I was reading the latest edition of TechNet Magazine that I received in
> the mail this week; when I came across an article that inadvertently
> associated itself with one of the issues that we run across in
> newsgroups consistently. This problem can be described in so many
> different ways by religious newsgroup participates like myself. What it
> boils down to is the very thing we preach day in and day out: Research
> and Hands-on Experience. It also touches on abandoning your
> preconceptions when comparing older technology to newer technology.
>
>
>
> You can find the article at:
> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
> Enjoy.
>
>
>
> P.S. I also included this article with the Vista and XP newsgroups in
> hopes that individuals seeking help in those areas will read Mark's
> article and perform research and troubleshooting steps before posting
> their issues in newsgroups for others to "give them the answer."[/color]

That's fine, but a casual user should not have to "perform research and
troubleshooting steps before posting their issues in newsgroups".
[color=blue]
>
>
>
>
>
> Michael D. Alligood
>
> MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
>
> Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
>
> CIW Certified Instructor
>
>
>
> The Classroom Blog <http://www.yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom>
>
>
>
> CertGuard Member
>
> The Stronghold for Excellence in I.T. Certification
>
> [url]www.CertGuard.com[/url] <http://www.certguard.com/>[/color]

"Michael D. Alligood" <mdalligood@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:uxmLq$7cHHA.284@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
>
> You can find the article at:
> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
> Enjoy.
>[/color]


Thank you for that great link. It is thought provoking. Sometimes the
"experts" are the last person to ask about something new as they are still
trying to apply outdated concepts. A true expert has the wisdom to know that
their knowledge is soon out of date and may not apply to a new product. It's
a very hard lesson to learn.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
[url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]

Very true. Things move so fast in the computer industry, you are always
learning something new. You always have to keep an open mind, otherwise you
are just another unemployed BASIC programmer.

Nice article, though!

--
Dustin Harper
[email]dharper@vistarip.com[/email]
[url]http://www.vistarip.com[/url]

--
"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:uLxzvN8cHHA.1244@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "Michael D. Alligood" <mdalligood@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:uxmLq$7cHHA.284@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>
>>
>> You can find the article at:
>> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
>> Enjoy.
>>[/color]
>
>
> Thank you for that great link. It is thought provoking. Sometimes the
> "experts" are the last person to ask about something new as they are still
> trying to apply outdated concepts. A true expert has the wisdom to know
> that their knowledge is soon out of date and may not apply to a new
> product. It's a very hard lesson to learn.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> [url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]
>
>[/color]

This is true. The average Joe wouldn't even know where to start. Even
Googleing doesn't bring anything up if you don't know what to search for.
And error codes can be somewhat cryptic for the user that doesn't know how
to setup his own email. But, when it doesn't work, he asks where he thinks
he can find the answer. And usually there are friendly, helpful people in
here that would love to fix his problem. And sometimes we learn something
new, and he/she learns something that they can pass on to others.

--
Dustin Harper
[email]dharper@vistarip.com[/email]
[url]http://www.vistarip.com[/url]
[color=blue]
> That's fine, but a casual user should not have to "perform research and
> troubleshooting steps before posting their issues in newsgroups".
>[color=green]
>>[/color][/color]

Ray and Dustin:
Both of you made very good and valid points. Error messages and other
computer related issues can be ambiguous at best to the casual end users
-- and seasoned techs for that matter. However have you thought about
how those casual end users find these newsgroups to begin with? A
majority of issues presented in the newsgroups can be solved by viewing
the top 10 results after "Googling" the problem. The effort it takes to
find the newsgroup, word and post the question could be as "easy" as
performing a quick search on your problem. To further my point; perform
a search in the newsgroups for related or similar problems that others
have experienced. But again that requires effort, not answers right?!?
Do not misunderstand; I have been instructing, educating, and helping
end users for 13 years. And I enjoy doing so. I educate my end users and
the people that ask for help by asking them to, "help me help you."
Instead of says, "It's broke... HELP!" or "It's not working correctly";
I ask them to show or tell me what not working looks like. I believe in
education. And by educating the end user to "make an effort", I believe
they can solve their problems with little or no effort.

--

Michael D. Alligood
MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
CIW Certified Instructor

The Classroom Blog

CertGuard Member
The Stronghold for Excellence in I.T. Certification
[url]www.CertGuard.com[/url]



"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.31.18.31.34.799420@zianet.com:
[color=blue]
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:10:33 +0000, Michael D. Alligood wrote:
>[color=green]
> > I was reading the latest edition of TechNet Magazine that I received in
> > the mail this week; when I came across an article that inadvertently
> > associated itself with one of the issues that we run across in
> > newsgroups consistently. This problem can be described in so many
> > different ways by religious newsgroup participates like myself. What it
> > boils down to is the very thing we preach day in and day out: Research
> > and Hands-on Experience. It also touches on abandoning your
> > preconceptions when comparing older technology to newer technology.
> >
> >
> >
> > You can find the article at:
> > [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
> > Enjoy.
> >
> >
> >
> > P.S. I also included this article with the Vista and XP newsgroups in
> > hopes that individuals seeking help in those areas will read Mark's
> > article and perform research and troubleshooting steps before posting
> > their issues in newsgroups for others to "give them the answer."[/color]
>
> That's fine, but a casual user should not have to "perform research and
> troubleshooting steps before posting their issues in newsgroups".
>[color=green]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael D. Alligood
> >
> > MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> >
> > Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> >
> > CIW Certified Instructor
> >
> >
> >
> > The Classroom Blog <http://www.yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom>
> >
> >
> >
> > CertGuard Member
> >
> > The Stronghold for Excellence in I.T. Certification
> >
> > [url]www.CertGuard.com[/url] <http://www.certguard.com/>[/color][/color]

Yes, you are right. We should educate the users to help them help
themselves. Great point.

And with Vista, the newsgroups are built in to Windows Mail. Easy to find
and use (for the most part). A lot of users are mistakingly thinking that
they are asking Microsoft employees or think that it's a direct line to
Microsoft, which it's not.

I try to help fix the problem, most of them are easy enough. I may be wrong
with most, and I know I have been at least a couple times, assuming that a
user has gone through the regular channels (reboot, unplug USB hardware,
plug it back in, etc.). Google is a great resource, but with Vista, a lot of
people are having fresh problems that haven't been seen before. Or they know
the problem, but don't know how to word it right in a search...

On a sidenote: when I was doing tech support, I spent about 20 minutes
trying to get some ladies DSL working... Turns out she called the phone
company to have it turned off... Weird thing: she still said it was our
fault for her DSL still not working... I'm starting to learn not to assume
things! :)

--
Dustin Harper
[email]dharper@vistarip.com[/email]
[url]http://www.vistarip.com[/url]

--
"Michael D. Alligood" <mdalligood@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:uQ%23fCR9cHHA.4260@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Ray and Dustin:
> Both of you made very good and valid points. Error messages and other
> computer related issues can be ambiguous at best to the casual end
> users -- and seasoned techs for that matter. However have you thought
> about how those casual end users find these newsgroups to begin with? A
> majority of issues presented in the newsgroups can be solved by viewing
> the top 10 results after "Googling" the problem. The effort it takes to
> find the newsgroup, word and post the question could be as "easy" as
> performing a quick search on your problem. To further my point; perform a
> search in the newsgroups for related or similar problems that others have
> experienced. But again that requires effort, not answers right?!?
> Do not misunderstand; I have been instructing, educating, and helping end
> users for 13 years. And I enjoy doing so. I educate my end users and the
> people that ask for help by asking them to, "help me help you." Instead of
> says, "It's broke... HELP!" or "It's not working correctly"; I ask them to
> show or tell me what not working looks like. I believe in education. And
> by educating the end user to "make an effort", I believe they can solve
> their problems with little or no effort.
>
> --
>
> Michael D. Alligood
> MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
> Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
> CIW Certified Instructor
>
> The Classroom Blog
>
> CertGuard Member
> The Stronghold for Excellence in I.T. Certification
> [url]www.CertGuard.com[/url]
>
>
>
> "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2007.03.31.18.31.34.799420@zianet.com:
>[color=green]
>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:10:33 +0000, Michael D. Alligood wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > I was reading the latest edition of TechNet Magazine that I received in
>> > the mail this week; when I came across an article that inadvertently
>> > associated itself with one of the issues that we run across in
>> > newsgroups consistently. This problem can be described in so many
>> > different ways by religious newsgroup participates like myself. What it
>> > boils down to is the very thing we preach day in and day out: Research
>> > and Hands-on Experience. It also touches on abandoning your
>> > preconceptions when comparing older technology to newer technology.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > You can find the article at:
>> > [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
>> > Enjoy.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > P.S. I also included this article with the Vista and XP newsgroups in
>> > hopes that individuals seeking help in those areas will read Mark's
>> > article and perform research and troubleshooting steps before posting
>> > their issues in newsgroups for others to "give them the answer."[/color]
>>
>> That's fine, but a casual user should not have to "perform research and
>> troubleshooting steps before posting their issues in newsgroups".
>>[color=darkred]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Michael D. Alligood
>> >
>> > MCSA, MCDST, MCP, A+,
>> >
>> > Network+, i-Net+, CIW Assoc.,
>> >
>> > CIW Certified Instructor
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The Classroom Blog <http://www.yetanotherblog.typepad.com/theclassroom>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > CertGuard Member
>> >
>> > The Stronghold for Excellence in I.T. Certification
>> >
>> > [url]www.CertGuard.com[/url] <http://www.certguard.com/>[/color][/color]
>[/color]

"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote[color=blue]
> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:10:33 +0000, Michael D. Alligood wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I was reading the latest edition of TechNet Magazine that I received in
>> the mail this week; when I came across an article that inadvertently
>> associated itself with one of the issues that we run across in
>> newsgroups consistently. This problem can be described in so many
>> different ways by religious newsgroup participates like myself. What it
>> boils down to is the very thing we preach day in and day out: Research
>> and Hands-on Experience. It also touches on abandoning your
>> preconceptions when comparing older technology to newer technology.
>>
>> You can find the article at:
>> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2007/04/FieldNotes/default.aspx[/url].
>> Enjoy.
>>
>> P.S. I also included this article with the Vista and XP newsgroups in
>> hopes that individuals seeking help in those areas will read Mark's
>> article and perform research and troubleshooting steps before posting
>> their issues in newsgroups for others to "give them the answer."[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> That's fine, but a casual user should not have to "perform research and
> troubleshooting steps before posting their issues in newsgroups".[/color]

Sure they should. Problems should be researched before posting and should
troubleshooting A couple minutes of research can save a lot of time.
Posting when the answer is easily discovered otherwise is a waste of
everyone's efforts.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

f'ups set for idiotic cross-post list & bottom posted. That sort of
crosspost is rude, crude and stupid.


Michael D. Alligood wrote:[color=blue]
> Ray and Dustin:
> Both of you made very good and valid points. Error messages and other
> computer related issues can be ambiguous at best to the casual end
> users -- and seasoned techs for that matter. However have you thought
> about how those casual end users find these newsgroups to begin with?
> A majority of issues presented in the newsgroups can be solved by
> viewing the top 10 results after "Googling" the problem. The effort
> it takes to find the newsgroup, word and post the question could be
> as "easy" as performing a quick search on your problem. To further my
> point; perform a search in the newsgroups for related or similar
> problems that others have experienced. But again that requires
> effort, not answers right?!? Do not misunderstand; I have been
> instructing, educating, and helping end users for 13 years. And I
> enjoy doing so. I educate my end users and the people that ask for
> help by asking them to, "help me help you." Instead of says, "It's
> broke... HELP!" or "It's not working correctly"; I ask them to show
> or tell me what not working looks like. I believe in education. And
> by educating the end user to "make an effort", I believe they can
> solve their problems with little or no effort.[/color]

Great attitude. And a by product of encouraing education would also tend to
thwart the efforts of a lot of spammer/scammers.

An active spamfighter,

Pop`