Dell has been doing this for ages, look at all the XP computers that came
out with Celeron processors and 128mb of ram. To be truthfull all the big
box manufacturers do this. Thats why its better to shop local and buy from a
local builder with a good reputation. They will help those that dont know
how to pick out a good system that will not be painfully slow and
underpowered. That and you get to help your local economy, its a win win.

Dan
"Gordon Keenan" <gordon@tasystems.org(removeme)> wrote in message
news:E46E012E-B40C-4BD9-BF35-57F8402B899C@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>I have (over the last three weeks) had the opportunity to work at different
>places that have recently purchased new Dell Computer Equipment. A few
>small business's and some home users, so it's been a combinations of Vista
>Business and Home Edition.
>
> My experiences have left me extremely cold on what Dell considers to be an
> acceptable platform for the Vista operating system.
>
> All of the equipment is way under powered for decent use, though I have to
> say it would be fine for Windows XP.
>
> 512MB RAM - it's crippling the system!
> On-board video - Aero - zero chance of that happening for these users and
> certainly no WOW factor!
>
> The thing is, the people buying the equipment don't know any better but
> they all said the same thing... Why is the new computer running so slow?
> Surely it should be really fast with the new vista on it?
>
> As I run Vista Business on a dual-core Athlon 5600+ with 2GB of ram, and I
> find it sluggish at times, all I could do is tell them that in future,
> they should ask advice before just buying something cheap.
>
> As for Dell, a company that is trying to tell people that it KNOWS about
> computers, they should hang their heads in shame.. but the good thing is
> that independent computer builders now have a chance of making good spec
> pc's that will work better for the end user!
>
>[/color]

Larry

The people who upgraded from 98 to XP had a huge culture shock waiting for
them.. we all did.. a good few tried to install XP on machines that
realistically only just managed the upgrade to Win 98.. low end machines
were marketed by vendors who knew **** well that XP would run like a dog on
them,.. people were sold printers and scanners at the same time as buying a
new XP computer, but the vendors failed to make them aware that there were
no XP drivers available at the time..

The same scenario is raising it's head again.. Vista is not perfect, and
none of us claim it to be, but many of the problems can be resolved, and the
situation will get better as soon as third party companies get it together..
until then, we are all struggling a little..

Coming into here calling us straw men, MS ass kissers or whatever, and just
MS bashing serves no useful purpose whatsoever.. we don't make the rules..
we try to work with what we have.. if anybody wants to know what I think,
click on my blog link.. I have things to say about stuff I don't like, but I
don't insult others in the process, and certainly not those who are honestly
trying to help..



"Larry" <larry328NOSPAM@att.net> wrote in message
news:%238bZgakbHHA.2088@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> If serious problems with Microsoft products cannot be discussed in a
> Microsoft newsgroup, then, uh, where can they be discussed?
>
> The attitude in the Microsoft newsgroups is "Don't complain, these groups
> only exist to help people, complaining serves no purpose and is a waste of
> time." I don't agree. If there are things wrong with software, things
> that
> ought to be changed, the more awareness that is created about these
> problems
> the more likely it is that Microsoft will do something about them.
>
> In any case we are human beings dealing with a huge company that does
> things
> we have no power over but that have a big effect on our lives, like having
> to start over at a kindergarten level on software that one has been using
> very competently for years. It is legitimate, and it is helpful, for
> people
> to be able to let off steam about this.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> "Mike Hall - MS MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:esrXcSjbHHA.4616@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Larry
>>
>> We dissent about things in the right places..
>>
>>
>> "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM@att.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23MIGrJjbHHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>> > Mike Hall, a Microsoft MVP wrote:
>> >
>> > "Live with it, or say nothing."
>> >
>> > Wow, I've been feeling for a long time that there is an increasingly
>> > conformist, even totalitarian spirit afoot in the Microsoft world, and
>> > Mike
>> > Hall brings it right out.
>> >
>> > According to Hall and some others who post here, no one is supposed to
>> > dissent from anything Microsoft does, not matter how bad it is.[/color][/color]
> Everyone[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > is
>> > just supposed to bow down like the North Koreans before the picture of
>> > their
>> > Dear Leader thanking him for his great beneficence.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > "Mike Hall - MS MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> > news:%23$%23AJChbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >> Alias
>> >>
>> >> It is way more capable.. live with it, or say nothing..
>> >>
>> >> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>> >> news:eu33hh$kic$1@aioe.org...
>> >> > Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
>> >> >> Vista was released as the next stage up in Windows OS, just like
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> the others.. it flies in the face of lower end computers no more[/color][/color]
> than[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > XP
>> >> >> did on its release..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To have a more capable OS requires more capable hardware.. it is[/color][/color]
> that[color=green][color=darkred]
>> >> >> simple..
>> >> >
>> >> > "Capable"? You mean more resource hungry, not more capable.
>> >> >
>> >> > Alias[/color][/color]
>[/color]

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]

I appreciate much of what you have to say. I have no desire to insult or
bash. I was responding to your incredible statement:

"Live with it, or say nothing."

When you tell people to shut up, when you tell people not to speak, you
should expect a vigorous response.




"Mike Hall - MS MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:%23Zlgl7kbHHA.1400@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Larry
>
> The people who upgraded from 98 to XP had a huge culture shock waiting for
> them.. we all did.. a good few tried to install XP on machines that
> realistically only just managed the upgrade to Win 98.. low end machines
> were marketed by vendors who knew **** well that XP would run like a dog[/color]
on[color=blue]
> them,.. people were sold printers and scanners at the same time as buying[/color]
a[color=blue]
> new XP computer, but the vendors failed to make them aware that there were
> no XP drivers available at the time..
>
> The same scenario is raising it's head again.. Vista is not perfect, and
> none of us claim it to be, but many of the problems can be resolved, and[/color]
the[color=blue]
> situation will get better as soon as third party companies get it[/color]
together..[color=blue]
> until then, we are all struggling a little..
>
> Coming into here calling us straw men, MS ass kissers or whatever, and[/color]
just[color=blue]
> MS bashing serves no useful purpose whatsoever.. we don't make the rules..
> we try to work with what we have.. if anybody wants to know what I think,
> click on my blog link.. I have things to say about stuff I don't like, but[/color]
I[color=blue]
> don't insult others in the process, and certainly not those who are[/color]
honestly[color=blue]
> trying to help..
>
>
>
> "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM@att.net> wrote in message
> news:%238bZgakbHHA.2088@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
> >
> > If serious problems with Microsoft products cannot be discussed in a
> > Microsoft newsgroup, then, uh, where can they be discussed?
> >
> > The attitude in the Microsoft newsgroups is "Don't complain, these[/color][/color]
groups[color=blue][color=green]
> > only exist to help people, complaining serves no purpose and is a waste[/color][/color]
of[color=blue][color=green]
> > time." I don't agree. If there are things wrong with software, things
> > that
> > ought to be changed, the more awareness that is created about these
> > problems
> > the more likely it is that Microsoft will do something about them.
> >
> > In any case we are human beings dealing with a huge company that does
> > things
> > we have no power over but that have a big effect on our lives, like[/color][/color]
having[color=blue][color=green]
> > to start over at a kindergarten level on software that one has been[/color][/color]
using[color=blue][color=green]
> > very competently for years. It is legitimate, and it is helpful, for
> > people
> > to be able to let off steam about this.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> > "Mike Hall - MS MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
> > news:esrXcSjbHHA.4616@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
> >> Larry
> >>
> >> We dissent about things in the right places..
> >>
> >>
> >> "Larry" <larry328NOSPAM@att.net> wrote in message
> >> news:%23MIGrJjbHHA.4176@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> >> > Mike Hall, a Microsoft MVP wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Live with it, or say nothing."
> >> >
> >> > Wow, I've been feeling for a long time that there is an increasingly
> >> > conformist, even totalitarian spirit afoot in the Microsoft world,[/color][/color][/color]
and[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > Mike
> >> > Hall brings it right out.
> >> >
> >> > According to Hall and some others who post here, no one is supposed[/color][/color][/color]
to[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > dissent from anything Microsoft does, not matter how bad it is.[/color]
> > Everyone[color=darkred]
> >> > is
> >> > just supposed to bow down like the North Koreans before the picture[/color][/color][/color]
of[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
> >> > their
> >> > Dear Leader thanking him for his great beneficence.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Mike Hall - MS MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
> >> > news:%23$%23AJChbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >> >> Alias
> >> >>
> >> >> It is way more capable.. live with it, or say nothing..
> >> >>
> >> >> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
> >> >> news:eu33hh$kic$1@aioe.org...
> >> >> > Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
> >> >> >> Vista was released as the next stage up in Windows OS, just like
> >> >> >> all
> >> >> >> of
> >> >> >> the others.. it flies in the face of lower end computers no more[/color]
> > than[color=darkred]
> >> > XP
> >> >> >> did on its release..
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> To have a more capable OS requires more capable hardware.. it is[/color]
> > that[color=darkred]
> >> >> >> simple..
> >> >> >
> >> >> > "Capable"? You mean more resource hungry, not more capable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Alias[/color]
> >[/color]
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> [url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]
>
>
>[/color]

"Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:eu36k2$r6r$2@aioe.org...[color=blue]
> Gordon Keenan wrote:[color=green]
>> The same can be said about Linux as well (heheh.. had to say that Alias)
>> it's not end user nice in any way or form, and it's why the fanciness of
>> Vista appeals to the masses...[/color]
>
> Have you tried Ubuntu 6.06?
>
> Alias[/color]

I have. What a piece of crap.

"Alpha" <none@none> wrote in message
news:u1px9%23lbHHA.4000@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
> news:eu36k2$r6r$2@aioe.org...[color=green]
>> Gordon Keenan wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> The same can be said about Linux as well (heheh.. had to say that Alias)
>>> it's not end user nice in any way or form, and it's why the fanciness of
>>> Vista appeals to the masses...[/color]
>>
>> Have you tried Ubuntu 6.06?
>>
>> Alias[/color]
>
> I have. What a piece of crap.
>
>[/color]

To be specific: Does not recognize 7 of my USB devices. Hangs on using
external USB drives. Does not recognize internal soft modem. External
thermal disc printer and picture printers do not work. Wireless keyboard
only partially supported. Sound hardware from M-audio not recognized...nor
Pro Tools.

Alpha wrote:[color=blue]
> "Alpha" <none@none> wrote in message
> news:u1px9%23lbHHA.4000@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>> news:eu36k2$r6r$2@aioe.org...[color=darkred]
>>> Gordon Keenan wrote:
>>>> The same can be said about Linux as well (heheh.. had to say that Alias)
>>>> it's not end user nice in any way or form, and it's why the fanciness of
>>>> Vista appeals to the masses...
>>> Have you tried Ubuntu 6.06?
>>>
>>> Alias[/color]
>> I have. What a piece of crap.
>>
>>[/color]
>
> To be specific: Does not recognize 7 of my USB devices. Hangs on using
> external USB drives. Does not recognize internal soft modem. External
> thermal disc printer and picture printers do not work. Wireless keyboard
> only partially supported. Sound hardware from M-audio not recognized...nor
> Pro Tools.
>
>
>[/color]

Internal *win* modems won't work with Linux Ubuntu because they're
designed to only work with Windows. Not sure what you mean by "M-audio".
If you mean a sound card, I'm using a Genius Sound Maker Value 5.1 and
it allows me to have both the desk top speakers and the stereo's
speakers to play, with each plugged into a separate jack in the sound
card. Not a high end sound card to say the least. Ubuntu put in the
drivers. With Windows, and the latest Genius drivers, I can't do that,
only one of the two will emit any sound.

Try [url]http://localhost:631/printers/[/url] for your printers. Did you ask for
assistance at any of the Ubuntu groups and, other than hardware
incompatibility, how did you like it? Did you use Automatix to download
codecs, a WMP clone, Real Player, etc.?

Alias

Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:[color=blue]
> Alias
>
> Take a look here.. [url]http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=73[/url]
>
> A decent bunch of people in that forum.. some are doing what I and
> others do here.. strangely, I don't see your counterparts in there.. the
> people helping are not harried like we are in here.. there is decency
> shown.. take a leaf out of their book..
>
> You wouldn't have a chance of learning from that forum if you had people
> like yourself trying to disrupt it.. you take advantage of the fact that
> we have to be professional in our approach, despite daily goading by the
> likes of you and others.. you take advantage of the fact that 99.99% of
> all posts appear, only in absolute worst cases anything being pulled
> from public view..
>
> Show some decency to people with problems they wish solved and to those
> who come here to offer that help.. the same kind as is afforded Ubuntu
> users in their forum..[/color]

Oh, so now you're going to play the holier than thou victim card, eh.
Who do you think you're fooling?

The only "help" *anyone* on this group needs is to learn to show some
wisdom, patience and prudence and wait on Vista until it's ready for
prime time. The only exception would be hobbyists and repair techs. A
basher would say "never", not wait and see how Vista plays out, same for
a troll. I've invested a lot my time in Windows and if you don't think
that gives me the right to express my opinion, I feel sorry for you. If
you would read the other MS newsgroups, you would see I try to help
people all the time. I even recommend installing IE7 now and have
installed it myself myself, although I still use Fire Fox unless I am
compelled to use IE ;-)

Alias[color=blue]
>
>
>
>
> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
> news:eu3kcl$q6n$1@aioe.org...[color=green]
>> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Alias
>>>
>>> I don't use Ubuntu but, if I did, would go to the official Ubuntu
>>> forum..[/color]
>>
>> I didn't think you had the balls. You have to pick on a beginner like
>> me because you know you will get slaughtered on the Ubuntu newsgroup.
>>
>> Alias[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>
>>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>> news:eu3j42$nje$1@aioe.org...
>>>> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
>>>>> You want to join in this one too? I can't wait to hear you explain
>>>>> to me that Unix and Linux are not many parts, authored by many
>>>>> people, essentially all flying in loose formation.. start any time
>>>>> you like.. I have time.. :)
>>>>
>>>> I can see how you want to change the subject, being as you were
>>>> soundly refuted with MS lying about minimum specs, but I will not
>>>> play your straw man game, sorry. If you have a question about
>>>> Ubuntu, please post your query at alt.os.linux.ubuntu, although I
>>>> doubt very seriously that you have the balls to do so. You can start
>>>> anytime you like.
>>>>
>>>> Alias, expecting Mike to insult me and all alt. newsgroups.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eu3hgm$jnt$3@aioe.org...
>>>>>> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
>>>>>>> Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not the basis of Unix and
>>>>>>> Linux, constantly being added to and patched?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You really love being a straw man, don't you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:kkea039nd00j80ru3rst7a5abqfldirbj0@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:01:17 -0400, "Mike Hall - MS MVP"
>>>>>>>> <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vista was released as the next stage up in Windows OS, just
>>>>>>>>> like all of the
>>>>>>>>> others.. it flies in the face of lower end computers no more
>>>>>>>>> than XP did on
>>>>>>>>> its release..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To have a more capable OS requires more capable hardware.. it
>>>>>>>>> is that
>>>>>>>>> simple..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's your considered opinion? ROTFLMAO!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can make it even simpler. Over the years Windows has been
>>>>>>>> endlessly
>>>>>>>> patched and held together with bailing wire and duct tape. The
>>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>>> of patching older patches with newer ones results in code bloat. As
>>>>>>>> Windows evolves, the underlying code gets more complex, much due to
>>>>>>>> trying to stay backward compatible with appplications and
>>>>>>>> devices that
>>>>>>>> used to work, that now may no longer, not always. Add in the
>>>>>>>> push to
>>>>>>>> improve "security" and you have a real mess.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At some point, I sadly suspect we are now there, the complexity
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> OS is so entangled with elements of itself NOBODY, not even
>>>>>>>> Microsoft's own software engineers know for sure how it will
>>>>>>>> react in
>>>>>>>> a set of particular circumstances, thus the dawning of a new era
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> Windows now does "weird" things for SOME people that are so
>>>>>>>> convoluted
>>>>>>>> in nature trying to understand the 'how come' part and come up
>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>> fix that always works for everybody is getting close to impossible.
>>>>>>>> Windows' Vista main problem is its size. A normal install now
>>>>>>>> weights
>>>>>>>> in at around 8.5 GB, which of course is absurd.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The time for "fixing" Windows is past. Long past. I suspect the
>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>> version of Windows will be even more radical a departure in what
>>>>>>>> software and hardware requirements will be and sooner or later
>>>>>>>> Microsoft will do what it should have done at least 10 years back.
>>>>>>>> Start over from scratch, totally, instead of endless tinkering,
>>>>>>>> patching and buying tons of duct tape to try to hold things
>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>[/color][/color]
>[/color]

Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:[color=blue]
> It would appear that way..
>
>
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in message
> news:eYOfbojbHHA.4312@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Due to his emotional problem Alias is not capable of showing respect.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hall - MS MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> Show some decency to people[/color][/color][/color]

Enough said.

Alias

Alias wrote:[color=blue]
> Alpha wrote:[color=green]
>> "Alpha" <none@none> wrote in message
>> news:u1px9%23lbHHA.4000@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>> news:eu36k2$r6r$2@aioe.org...
>>>> Gordon Keenan wrote:
>>>>> The same can be said about Linux as well (heheh.. had to say that
>>>>> Alias) it's not end user nice in any way or form, and it's why the
>>>>> fanciness of Vista appeals to the masses...
>>>> Have you tried Ubuntu 6.06?
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>> I have. What a piece of crap.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>> To be specific: Does not recognize 7 of my USB devices. Hangs on
>> using external USB drives. Does not recognize internal soft modem.
>> External thermal disc printer and picture printers do not work.
>> Wireless keyboard only partially supported. Sound hardware from
>> M-audio not recognized...nor Pro Tools.
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Internal *win* modems won't work with Linux Ubuntu because they're
> designed to only work with Windows. Not sure what you mean by "M-audio".
> If you mean a sound card, I'm using a Genius Sound Maker Value 5.1 and
> it allows me to have both the desk top speakers and the stereo's
> speakers to play, with each plugged into a separate jack in the sound
> card.[/color]

Windows won't and won't on the other computer I have without an adapter
to plug both sets of speakers into one jack.

Alias

So you want to determine what others should do, and I am the one trying to
fool people? too **** funny..


"Alias" <aka@masked&anonymous.cl> wrote in message
news:uM$v9JnbHHA.4656@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:[color=green]
>> Alias
>>
>> Take a look here.. [url]http://www.ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=73[/url]
>>
>> A decent bunch of people in that forum.. some are doing what I and others
>> do here.. strangely, I don't see your counterparts in there.. the people
>> helping are not harried like we are in here.. there is decency shown..
>> take a leaf out of their book..
>>
>> You wouldn't have a chance of learning from that forum if you had people
>> like yourself trying to disrupt it.. you take advantage of the fact that
>> we have to be professional in our approach, despite daily goading by the
>> likes of you and others.. you take advantage of the fact that 99.99% of
>> all posts appear, only in absolute worst cases anything being pulled from
>> public view..
>>
>> Show some decency to people with problems they wish solved and to those
>> who come here to offer that help.. the same kind as is afforded Ubuntu
>> users in their forum..[/color]
>
> Oh, so now you're going to play the holier than thou victim card, eh. Who
> do you think you're fooling?
>
> The only "help" *anyone* on this group needs is to learn to show some
> wisdom, patience and prudence and wait on Vista until it's ready for prime
> time. The only exception would be hobbyists and repair techs. A basher
> would say "never", not wait and see how Vista plays out, same for a troll.
> I've invested a lot my time in Windows and if you don't think that gives
> me the right to express my opinion, I feel sorry for you. If you would
> read the other MS newsgroups, you would see I try to help people all the
> time. I even recommend installing IE7 now and have installed it myself
> myself, although I still use Fire Fox unless I am compelled to use IE ;-)
>
> Alias[color=green]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>> news:eu3kcl$q6n$1@aioe.org...[color=darkred]
>>> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>> I don't use Ubuntu but, if I did, would go to the official Ubuntu
>>>> forum..
>>>
>>> I didn't think you had the balls. You have to pick on a beginner like me
>>> because you know you will get slaughtered on the Ubuntu newsgroup.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>> news:eu3j42$nje$1@aioe.org...
>>>>> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
>>>>>> You want to join in this one too? I can't wait to hear you explain to
>>>>>> me that Unix and Linux are not many parts, authored by many people,
>>>>>> essentially all flying in loose formation.. start any time you like..
>>>>>> I have time.. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I can see how you want to change the subject, being as you were
>>>>> soundly refuted with MS lying about minimum specs, but I will not play
>>>>> your straw man game, sorry. If you have a question about Ubuntu,
>>>>> please post your query at alt.os.linux.ubuntu, although I doubt very
>>>>> seriously that you have the balls to do so. You can start anytime you
>>>>> like.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias, expecting Mike to insult me and all alt. newsgroups.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:eu3hgm$jnt$3@aioe.org...
>>>>>>> Mike Hall - MS MVP wrote:
>>>>>>>> Correct me if I am wrong, but is that not the basis of Unix and
>>>>>>>> Linux, constantly being added to and patched?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You really love being a straw man, don't you?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:kkea039nd00j80ru3rst7a5abqfldirbj0@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 07:01:17 -0400, "Mike Hall - MS MVP"
>>>>>>>>> <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vista was released as the next stage up in Windows OS, just like
>>>>>>>>>> all of the
>>>>>>>>>> others.. it flies in the face of lower end computers no more than
>>>>>>>>>> XP did on
>>>>>>>>>> its release..
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To have a more capable OS requires more capable hardware.. it is
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> simple..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's your considered opinion? ROTFLMAO!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can make it even simpler. Over the years Windows has been
>>>>>>>>> endlessly
>>>>>>>>> patched and held together with bailing wire and duct tape. The
>>>>>>>>> result
>>>>>>>>> of patching older patches with newer ones results in code bloat.
>>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>> Windows evolves, the underlying code gets more complex, much due
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> trying to stay backward compatible with appplications and devices
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> used to work, that now may no longer, not always. Add in the push
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> improve "security" and you have a real mess.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At some point, I sadly suspect we are now there, the complexity of
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> OS is so entangled with elements of itself NOBODY, not even
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft's own software engineers know for sure how it will react
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> a set of particular circumstances, thus the dawning of a new era
>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> Windows now does "weird" things for SOME people that are so
>>>>>>>>> convoluted
>>>>>>>>> in nature trying to understand the 'how come' part and come up
>>>>>>>>> with a
>>>>>>>>> fix that always works for everybody is getting close to
>>>>>>>>> impossible.
>>>>>>>>> Windows' Vista main problem is its size. A normal install now
>>>>>>>>> weights
>>>>>>>>> in at around 8.5 GB, which of course is absurd.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The time for "fixing" Windows is past. Long past. I suspect the
>>>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>>> version of Windows will be even more radical a departure in what
>>>>>>>>> software and hardware requirements will be and sooner or later
>>>>>>>>> Microsoft will do what it should have done at least 10 years back.
>>>>>>>>> Start over from scratch, totally, instead of endless tinkering,
>>>>>>>>> patching and buying tons of duct tape to try to hold things
>>>>>>>>> together.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]

[color=blue]
> Internal *win* modems won't work with Linux Ubuntu because they're
> designed to only work with Windows.[/color]

Not quite true. It's the driver that does all the work. They can be used
with
Linux as well if a driver is written. Most name-brand Winmodems have
Linux drivers.

I installed PCLINUXOS in 15 minutes. All my hardware was read, including
my HP printer and wireless usb. I installed my NVIDIA drivers from the
control center...just another couple of seconds and log in and out. I
tried out the 3d desktop, which required that I log in and out. The menu
button brought up a list of all my applications and I was working within
30 minutes of starting the installation. I used synaptic to download a
lot of free software, and to update my installation. Unlike Windows, you
can keep on working while you are installing and updating. Yesterday,
after reading the February Issue of PCLINUXOS magazine, I was able to
install VMWARE and to create a virtual machine for my legal copy of XP.
I am now running XP faster in a window within my linux OS. It is just
another Window..lol. Nothing has crashed so far, including windows,
which I can turn off at any time. Right now, I am listening to music,
chatting on XCHAT, running Xnews in Windows and Pan in Linux. I have
four browsers up on different websites. I can even use Internet Explorer
within my virtual machine. I am in the process of doing away with my
dual boot with windows, since with the virtual machine, I only need
Linux. So what is so hard about Linux...I dont get it...
[color=blue]
> The same can be said about Linux as well (heheh.. had to say that Alias)
> it's not end user nice in any way or form, and it's why the fanciness of
> Vista appeals to the masses...
> The demands of the O.S. are all to do with the fancy GFX side of things
> in my opinion, but I would like MS to drop this multiple versions
> nonsense and have one o.s. that we ALL USE and can all get the help and
> support in one place![/color]

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Bill,

What would I have to know, and what kind of hardware would I have to have,
to install and run Linux the way you're talking about? I know nothing about
Linux. I have Windows 98 on my current eight year old machine.


"Bill" <bigbill52a@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.25.03.20.01@nowhere.com...[color=blue]
> I installed PCLINUXOS in 15 minutes. All my hardware was read, including
> my HP printer and wireless usb. I installed my NVIDIA drivers from the
> control center...just another couple of seconds and log in and out. I
> tried out the 3d desktop, which required that I log in and out. The menu
> button brought up a list of all my applications and I was working within
> 30 minutes of starting the installation. I used synaptic to download a
> lot of free software, and to update my installation. Unlike Windows, you
> can keep on working while you are installing and updating. Yesterday,
> after reading the February Issue of PCLINUXOS magazine, I was able to
> install VMWARE and to create a virtual machine for my legal copy of XP.
> I am now running XP faster in a window within my linux OS. It is just
> another Window..lol. Nothing has crashed so far, including windows,
> which I can turn off at any time. Right now, I am listening to music,
> chatting on XCHAT, running Xnews in Windows and Pan in Linux. I have
> four browsers up on different websites. I can even use Internet Explorer
> within my virtual machine. I am in the process of doing away with my
> dual boot with windows, since with the virtual machine, I only need
> Linux. So what is so hard about Linux...I dont get it...
>[color=green]
> > The same can be said about Linux as well (heheh.. had to say that Alias)
> > it's not end user nice in any way or form, and it's why the fanciness of
> > Vista appeals to the masses...
> > The demands of the O.S. are all to do with the fancy GFX side of things
> > in my opinion, but I would like MS to drop this multiple versions
> > nonsense and have one o.s. that we ALL USE and can all get the help and
> > support in one place![/color]
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet[/color]
News==----[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.newsfeeds.com[/url] The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+[/color]
Newsgroups[color=blue]
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption[/color]
=----

Stupid question: If you're running XP inside Linux, then you apparently
want XP. Why then are you running Linux?

"KingsHead" <AAA@AAA.NET> wrote in message
news:46052920$0$92340$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...[color=blue]
> Question still remains. What compelling thing does Vista do that XP does
> not ?[/color]

Hi Kingshead,
In my case it has allowed me to use the Hauppage HD Digital TV Tuner card,
something I wasn't able to do with the dual boot Linux SuSe 10.2 / Win XP
that had previously existed on the Dell Dimension 9150 I have downstairs. I
had resigned myself some months ago to having to buy another tuner card as I
thought this one was defective. Imagine my suprise and delight when after
configuring media centre all channels were found and I had sound ! Vista
home premium was cheaper by about 50% compared to another Tuner card so I
consider myself way ahead.

I bought Vista last week after consciously giving up on Linux. I have tried
for 10 years to get a fully functioning Linux distro up and running, it was
just last week after SuSe died on me (my fault for manually downloading an
RPM to try to get automatic updates working ) that I realised that in all
those 10 years I had never done anything practical with the OS. Two years
ago I bought an iMac G5, I have come to regard Tiger 10.4 as "Linux that
works" and now do all my Tex work and what little C++ I still require on it.

I'm not judging anyone elses choices or requirements, just saying that the
street cred you get from running Linux is no longer enough to comensate for
the time wasted in trying to make it work.