[url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]

with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to that
article does not place any blame on the users. You have misunderstood the
article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit vista.
G


"kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>[/color]

G,

I'd have to disagree with you about the article. It certainly does claim
Microsoft blamed users, as is obvious by the article's title "Microsoft
blames users for OneCare fiasco." However I agree with you that the article
doesn't seem to list any facts to back up that claim.
I also agree with you that Kirk Jim seems to be on quite an anti-Microsoft
rant in the forum here today.

--
I hope this helps,
Steve C. Orr,
MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASPInsider
[url]http://SteveOrr.net[/url]


<gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to that
> article does not place any blame on the users. You have misunderstood the
> article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit vista.
> G
>
>
> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
> news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>>[/color]
>[/color]

Well, you can't blame gxs, after all kirk has been found to completely NOT
UNDERSTAND things he's read.

However in this case, "but today insisted users were primarily at fault."

Either way, the customers WERE at fault.

So?

If you delete an important file from your quarantine then YOU ARE AT FAULT.
Kind of a no "crap" statement.




"Steve C. Orr [MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASP Insider]" <Steve@Orr.net> wrote in
message news:6924D917-F9B4-4E4E-9272-6F43450D94B5@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> G,
>
> I'd have to disagree with you about the article. It certainly does claim
> Microsoft blamed users, as is obvious by the article's title "Microsoft
> blames users for OneCare fiasco." However I agree with you that the
> article doesn't seem to list any facts to back up that claim.
> I also agree with you that Kirk Jim seems to be on quite an anti-Microsoft
> rant in the forum here today.
>
> --
> I hope this helps,
> Steve C. Orr,
> MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASPInsider
> [url]http://SteveOrr.net[/url]
>
>
> <gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
> news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to that
>> article does not place any blame on the users. You have misunderstood the
>> article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit vista.
>> G
>>
>>
>> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
>> news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>>>[/color]
>>[/color]
>[/color]

<gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to that
> article does not place any blame on the users. You have misunderstood the
> article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit vista.
> G[/color]

It certainly DOES place blame on the users (and so do I).

"Microsoft has since released a patch but today insisted users were
primarily at fault."

Tom Lake

Justin wrote:[color=blue]
> Well, you can't blame gxs, after all kirk has been found to completely
> NOT UNDERSTAND things he's read.
>
> However in this case, "but today insisted users were primarily at fault."
>
> Either way, the customers WERE at fault.
>
> So?
>
> If you delete an important file from your quarantine then YOU ARE AT
> FAULT. Kind of a no "crap" statement.[/color]

Erm, Outlook, Outlook Express and OneCare are MS products. One would
think that OneCare could be trained not to flag files from MS products.
If it's falsely flagging files that it should *know* are not viruses,
what else is it falsely flagging!?

Course, being as you are an MS fanboi, it's normal for you to blame the
user and not the MS' All Mighty programs.

Alias[color=blue]
>
>
>
>
> "Steve C. Orr [MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASP Insider]" <Steve@Orr.net> wrote in
> message news:6924D917-F9B4-4E4E-9272-6F43450D94B5@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> G,
>>
>> I'd have to disagree with you about the article. It certainly does
>> claim Microsoft blamed users, as is obvious by the article's title
>> "Microsoft blames users for OneCare fiasco." However I agree with you
>> that the article doesn't seem to list any facts to back up that claim.
>> I also agree with you that Kirk Jim seems to be on quite an
>> anti-Microsoft rant in the forum here today.
>>
>> --
>> I hope this helps,
>> Steve C. Orr,
>> MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASPInsider
>> [url]http://SteveOrr.net[/url]
>>
>>
>> <gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to
>>> that article does not place any blame on the users. You have
>>> misunderstood the article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit
>>> vista.
>>> G
>>>
>>>
>>> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
>>> news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

Tom Lake wrote:[color=blue]
> <gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
> news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to that
>> article does not place any blame on the users. You have misunderstood the
>> article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit vista.
>> G[/color]
>
> It certainly DOES place blame on the users (and so do I).
>
> "Microsoft has since released a patch but today insisted users were
> primarily at fault."
>
> Tom Lake
>
>[/color]

You blame the user for false positives from MS' crappy software? Please
explain.

Alias

>> It certainly DOES place blame on the users (and so do I).[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> "Microsoft has since released a patch but today insisted users were
>> primarily at fault."
>>
>> Tom Lake[/color]
>
> You blame the user for false positives from MS' crappy software? Please
> explain.[/color]

No, I blame the user for deleting important files. MS software only
quarantined those files. The user had to have deleted them. You can't
blindly
rely on any technology. Just look at all the "Driver puts car in river due
to
satnav fault" stories popping up! People have driven down what was
obviously
a closed road or cowpath just because their navigation system told them to.
One thing I teach users is, NEVER DELETE ANYTHING UNLESS YOU
KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT DOES.

Tom Lake

Tom Lake wrote:[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> It certainly DOES place blame on the users (and so do I).
>>>
>>> "Microsoft has since released a patch but today insisted users were
>>> primarily at fault."
>>>
>>> Tom Lake[/color]
>> You blame the user for false positives from MS' crappy software? Please
>> explain.[/color]
>
> No, I blame the user for deleting important files. MS software only
> quarantined those files. The user had to have deleted them. You can't
> blindly
> rely on any technology. Just look at all the "Driver puts car in river due
> to
> satnav fault" stories popping up! People have driven down what was
> obviously
> a closed road or cowpath just because their navigation system told them to.
> One thing I teach users is, NEVER DELETE ANYTHING UNLESS YOU
> KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT DOES.
>
> Tom Lake
>
>[/color]

So you do blame the user for MS' crappy software flagging MS products?
Note, I wrote "flagging", not "deleting".

Alias

Erm, one would think that if you want to bash other users you'd learn some
hard facts.

Files from Microsoft can become infect with viruses.

What was happening here was that OneCare was detecting a virus in the e-mail
folders and instead of handling the single e-mail it moved the folder into
quarantine.

It still required a manual deletion order from the user, it will not
automatically delete those files.

It has since been fixed.

Also the article is misleading, MS wasn't blaming users for the OneCare
issue, they said that if the file was deleted it wasn't by OneCare but by
the user.

There's a big difference.


"Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:eu312r$f4g$1@aioe.org...[color=blue]
> Justin wrote:[color=green]
>> Well, you can't blame gxs, after all kirk has been found to completely
>> NOT UNDERSTAND things he's read.
>>
>> However in this case, "but today insisted users were primarily at fault."
>>
>> Either way, the customers WERE at fault.
>>
>> So?
>>
>> If you delete an important file from your quarantine then YOU ARE AT
>> FAULT. Kind of a no "crap" statement.[/color]
>
> Erm, Outlook, Outlook Express and OneCare are MS products. One would think
> that OneCare could be trained not to flag files from MS products. If it's
> falsely flagging files that it should *know* are not viruses, what else is
> it falsely flagging!?
>
> Course, being as you are an MS fanboi, it's normal for you to blame the
> user and not the MS' All Mighty programs.
>
> Alias[color=green]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Steve C. Orr [MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASP Insider]" <Steve@Orr.net> wrote in
>> message news:6924D917-F9B4-4E4E-9272-6F43450D94B5@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
>>> G,
>>>
>>> I'd have to disagree with you about the article. It certainly does
>>> claim Microsoft blamed users, as is obvious by the article's title
>>> "Microsoft blames users for OneCare fiasco." However I agree with you
>>> that the article doesn't seem to list any facts to back up that claim.
>>> I also agree with you that Kirk Jim seems to be on quite an
>>> anti-Microsoft rant in the forum here today.
>>>
>>> --
>>> I hope this helps,
>>> Steve C. Orr,
>>> MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASPInsider
>>> [url]http://SteveOrr.net[/url]
>>>
>>>
>>> <gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to that
>>>> article does not place any blame on the users. You have misunderstood
>>>> the article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit vista.
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
>>>> news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>[/color][/color][/color]

Shane Nokes wrote:[color=blue]
> Erm, one would think that if you want to bash other users you'd learn
> some hard facts.
>
> Files from Microsoft can become infect with viruses.
>
> What was happening here was that OneCare was detecting a virus in the
> e-mail folders and instead of handling the single e-mail it moved the
> folder into quarantine.
>
> It still required a manual deletion order from the user, it will not
> automatically delete those files.
>
> It has since been fixed.
>
> Also the article is misleading, MS wasn't blaming users for the OneCare
> issue, they said that if the file was deleted it wasn't by OneCare but
> by the user.
>
> There's a big difference.[/color]

Please read for content, not what you think I wrote. I used the word
"flag", not "delete".

Alias[color=blue]
>
>
> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
> news:eu312r$f4g$1@aioe.org...[color=green]
>> Justin wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Well, you can't blame gxs, after all kirk has been found to
>>> completely NOT UNDERSTAND things he's read.
>>>
>>> However in this case, "but today insisted users were primarily at
>>> fault."
>>>
>>> Either way, the customers WERE at fault.
>>>
>>> So?
>>>
>>> If you delete an important file from your quarantine then YOU ARE AT
>>> FAULT. Kind of a no "crap" statement.[/color]
>>
>> Erm, Outlook, Outlook Express and OneCare are MS products. One would
>> think that OneCare could be trained not to flag files from MS
>> products. If it's falsely flagging files that it should *know* are not
>> viruses, what else is it falsely flagging!?
>>
>> Course, being as you are an MS fanboi, it's normal for you to blame
>> the user and not the MS' All Mighty programs.
>>
>> Alias[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Steve C. Orr [MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASP Insider]" <Steve@Orr.net> wrote in
>>> message news:6924D917-F9B4-4E4E-9272-6F43450D94B5@microsoft.com...
>>>> G,
>>>>
>>>> I'd have to disagree with you about the article. It certainly does
>>>> claim Microsoft blamed users, as is obvious by the article's title
>>>> "Microsoft blames users for OneCare fiasco." However I agree with
>>>> you that the article doesn't seem to list any facts to back up that
>>>> claim.
>>>> I also agree with you that Kirk Jim seems to be on quite an
>>>> anti-Microsoft rant in the forum here today.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> I hope this helps,
>>>> Steve C. Orr,
>>>> MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASPInsider
>>>> [url]http://SteveOrr.net[/url]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to
>>>>> that article does not place any blame on the users. You have
>>>>> misunderstood the article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit
>>>>> vista.
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
>>>>> news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>[/color][/color][/color]

my bad, i must have missed that quote :(
G


"kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>[/color]

I did read what you said but the main point that everyone was making was
about the deletions.

Also it wasn't falsely flagging files.

The files that were flagged did indeed contain viruses, but in only part of
the code.

OneCare did indeed make a mistake in flagging the entire file as opposed to
just the code that was necessary to be deleted.

But to say the files were falsely flagged/deleted/whatever is incorrect.


"Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:eu3e7p$bbj$4@aioe.org...[color=blue]
> Shane Nokes wrote:[color=green]
>> Erm, one would think that if you want to bash other users you'd learn
>> some hard facts.
>>
>> Files from Microsoft can become infect with viruses.
>>
>> What was happening here was that OneCare was detecting a virus in the
>> e-mail folders and instead of handling the single e-mail it moved the
>> folder into quarantine.
>>
>> It still required a manual deletion order from the user, it will not
>> automatically delete those files.
>>
>> It has since been fixed.
>>
>> Also the article is misleading, MS wasn't blaming users for the OneCare
>> issue, they said that if the file was deleted it wasn't by OneCare but by
>> the user.
>>
>> There's a big difference.[/color]
>
> Please read for content, not what you think I wrote. I used the word
> "flag", not "delete".
>
> Alias[color=green]
>>
>>
>> "Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>> news:eu312r$f4g$1@aioe.org...[color=darkred]
>>> Justin wrote:
>>>> Well, you can't blame gxs, after all kirk has been found to completely
>>>> NOT UNDERSTAND things he's read.
>>>>
>>>> However in this case, "but today insisted users were primarily at
>>>> fault."
>>>>
>>>> Either way, the customers WERE at fault.
>>>>
>>>> So?
>>>>
>>>> If you delete an important file from your quarantine then YOU ARE AT
>>>> FAULT. Kind of a no "crap" statement.
>>>
>>> Erm, Outlook, Outlook Express and OneCare are MS products. One would
>>> think that OneCare could be trained not to flag files from MS products.
>>> If it's falsely flagging files that it should *know* are not viruses,
>>> what else is it falsely flagging!?
>>>
>>> Course, being as you are an MS fanboi, it's normal for you to blame the
>>> user and not the MS' All Mighty programs.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Steve C. Orr [MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASP Insider]" <Steve@Orr.net> wrote in
>>>> message news:6924D917-F9B4-4E4E-9272-6F43450D94B5@microsoft.com...
>>>>> G,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd have to disagree with you about the article. It certainly does
>>>>> claim Microsoft blamed users, as is obvious by the article's title
>>>>> "Microsoft blames users for OneCare fiasco." However I agree with you
>>>>> that the article doesn't seem to list any facts to back up that claim.
>>>>> I also agree with you that Kirk Jim seems to be on quite an
>>>>> anti-Microsoft rant in the forum here today.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> I hope this helps,
>>>>> Steve C. Orr,
>>>>> MCSD, MVP, CSM, ASPInsider
>>>>> [url]http://SteveOrr.net[/url]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <gsx@gsxnet.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:e735ZMdbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> with all due respect, check your facts, that link you provided to
>>>>>> that article does not place any blame on the users. You have
>>>>>> misunderstood the article, or maybe grasping at straws to discredit
>>>>>> vista.
>>>>>> G
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "kirk jim" <11@11.11> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:e%231$8ycbHHA.4808@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> [url]http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_blames_users_for_OneCare_fiasco/0,130061733,339274293,00.htm[/url]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>[/color][/color][/color]

"Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:eu312r$f4g$1@aioe.org...[color=blue]
> Justin wrote:[color=green]
>> Well, you can't blame gxs, after all kirk has been found to completely
>> NOT UNDERSTAND things he's read.
>>
>> However in this case, "but today insisted users were primarily at fault."
>>
>> Either way, the customers WERE at fault.
>>
>> So?
>>
>> If you delete an important file from your quarantine then YOU ARE AT
>> FAULT. Kind of a no "crap" statement.[/color]
>
> Erm, Outlook, Outlook Express and OneCare are MS products. One would think
> that OneCare could be trained not to flag files from MS products. If it's
> falsely flagging files that it should *know* are not viruses, what else is
> it falsely flagging!?
>
> Course, being as you are an MS fanboi, it's normal for you to blame the
> user and not the MS' All Mighty programs.[/color]

Shane already pointed out exactly where you went wrong. You made the
ASSumption that the files where falsely flagged and they where not.

Additionally, I would not expect MS to develop an app that could properly
open those file and delete from within it. I wouldn't want that app to
accidentally blow up my DB files.

Quarantine the files. Let me un-quarantine them and if I so choose to setup
a rule to leave those files alone. Or, only report the issue and let me
deal with it.

"Alias" <alias@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:eu36ut$rut$1@aioe.org...[color=blue]
> Tom Lake wrote:[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> It certainly DOES place blame on the users (and so do I).
>>>>
>>>> "Microsoft has since released a patch but today insisted users were
>>>> primarily at fault."
>>>>
>>>> Tom Lake
>>> You blame the user for false positives from MS' crappy software? Please
>>> explain.[/color]
>>
>> No, I blame the user for deleting important files. MS software only
>> quarantined those files. The user had to have deleted them. You can't
>> blindly
>> rely on any technology. Just look at all the "Driver puts car in river
>> due to
>> satnav fault" stories popping up! People have driven down what was
>> obviously
>> a closed road or cowpath just because their navigation system told them
>> to.
>> One thing I teach users is, NEVER DELETE ANYTHING UNLESS YOU
>> KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT DOES.
>>
>> Tom Lake[/color]
>
> So you do blame the user for MS' crappy software flagging MS products?
> Note, I wrote "flagging", not "deleting".[/color]

Just to end this branch properly and not on the note of your incorrect
information. As you were told by Shane those files were NOT falsely
flagged. They were flagged because they where infected. If a MS files
becomes infected you want MS to do nothing about it because it's a MS file?
Are you nuts?