This risible business about "being told to uninstall a few applications
because Vista won't run with them" -- before installing Vista on a box is
appalling.

I certainly don't want to uninstall any applications in order to make Vista
operate properly.

Far better to wait until applications and Vista are more sympatico with each
other and THEN install Vista -- IF someone can tell us TEN Good Reasons that
are not fluff, smoke and mirrors why Vista is far better than XP Pro SP2.

I'll even buy an entirely new system if required.

This silly-buggers, repeated cry to:

"Tell me how you use your computer and the hardware description and I'll
tell you if Vista is right for you" is kindergarten stuff.

Joe Doaks may be using his computer one way today and then get a digital
camera and want to be rapidly processing mega-pixel image files a month from
now -- so that methodology is flawed from the get-go.

Today's Requirements May Be A Far Cry From One's Requirements Six Months
From Now -- As Technologies & Requirements Evolve.

The Burden of Proof is on Microsoft to tell us TEN Good Reasons why Vista is
better than XP Pro SP2 NOW.

So far, they have struck out.

Is anyone still buying Windows Millennium Edition that was once so widely
touted as a breakthrough edition?

DSH

Lux et Veritas et Libertas

Fortem Posce Animum

SMART!

DSH
-----------------------------------

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.xxx> wrote in message
news:Xns98E3839BA894AReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...
[color=blue]
> But, the bump I can get with an N-1 state-
> of-the-art PC (I do NOT buy bleeding edge anything!) says I can
> only get about a 50% increase over my current AMD 2.6 GHz, which
> ain't nearly enough to justify the expense and PITA associated
> with a new system. So, I'm going to sit out the Vista feeding
> frenzy for now, watch all of this unfold and monitor the
> experience of the early adopters, and look to a new PC this
> winter.[/color]

Ability to read, send, receive and print in another language -- and with
menus in that other language.

DSH

"Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
news:QZGdnZnHONaQjH7YRVnyhQA@giganews.com...
[color=blue]
> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Again, with respect, I say you are focusing on the WRONG issues...
>>
>> Involving some hypothecated hardware/software issues associated with a
>> particular user and his or her usage habits.
>>
>> Please:
>>
>> Don't focus on ANY current hardware/software system -- mine or someone
>> else's. I may buy an entirely NEW system if you can tell me TEN Good
>> Reasons why Vista is so much better than XP Pro SP2.
>>
>> Focus On The Capabilities & Limitations Of VISTA.
>>
>> Tell me what VISTA can do that XP Pro SP2 can't -- that is something more
>> than fluff, smoke and mirrors.
>>
>> I already knew my XP system can be used with Multiple Languages -- but
>> NOW know a Vista system cannot -- unless you buy Ultimate.
>>
>> Then, you may still have to pay for language packs and activate each one
>> or some similar ruddy time-wasting thing.
>>
>> No one will tell me about that.
>>
>> So, for Multi-Language -- XP Pro is FAR better -- unless someone can tell
>> me otherwise -- and they have not, so far.[/color]
>
> So wait, how do you define Multi-Language?
>
> Switch the entire OS to a different language or just input support for
> other languages such as Japanese IME?
>
> --
> Stephan Rose
> 2003 Yamaha R6
>
> ????????????????
> ?????????????[/color]

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ability to read, send, receive and print in another language -- and with
> menus in that other language.[/color]

And it can't do that?

Well then there is another reason for me not to use it. **** that list keeps
growing and growing =)

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

君のこと思い出すひなんてないのは
君のこと忘れた時がないから

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
[color=blue]
> This risible business about "being told to uninstall a few applications
> because Vista won't run with them" -- before installing Vista on a box is
> appalling.
>
> I certainly don't want to uninstall any applications in order to make
> Vista operate properly.
>
> Far better to wait until applications and Vista are more sympatico with
> each other and THEN install Vista -- IF someone can tell us TEN Good
> Reasons that are not fluff, smoke and mirrors why Vista is far better than
> XP Pro SP2.
>
> I'll even buy an entirely new system if required.
>
> This silly-buggers, repeated cry to:
>
> "Tell me how you use your computer and the hardware description and I'll
> tell you if Vista is right for you" is kindergarten stuff.
>
> Joe Doaks may be using his computer one way today and then get a digital
> camera and want to be rapidly processing mega-pixel image files a month
> from now -- so that methodology is flawed from the get-go.
>
> Today's Requirements May Be A Far Cry From One's Requirements Six Months
> From Now -- As Technologies & Requirements Evolve.
>
> The Burden of Proof is on Microsoft to tell us TEN Good Reasons why Vista
> is better than XP Pro SP2 NOW.[/color]

I'd like to but I can't even think of a single one...

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

君のこと思い出すひなんてないのは
君のこと忘れた時がないから

>> The Burden of Proof is on Microsoft to tell us TEN Good Reasons why Vista[color=blue][color=green]
>> is better than XP Pro SP2 NOW. -- DSH[/color]
>
> I'd like to but I can't even think of a single one...[/color]

Stephan Rose
---------------------------------------------------------

Sad.

You live in Japan and use an English language computer with Japanese IME?
How does that work out?

You use XP Pro SP2?

DSH

"Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
news:98-dnWPTWqBDpX7YnZ2dnUVZ8vSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
[color=blue]
> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>[color=green]
>> This risible business about "being told to uninstall a few applications
>> because Vista won't run with them" -- before installing Vista on a box is
>> appalling.
>>
>> I certainly don't want to uninstall any applications in order to make
>> Vista operate properly.
>>
>> Far better to wait until applications and Vista are more sympatico with
>> each other and THEN install Vista -- IF someone can tell us TEN Good
>> Reasons that are not fluff, smoke and mirrors why Vista is far better
>> than
>> XP Pro SP2.
>>
>> I'll even buy an entirely new system if required.
>>
>> This silly-buggers, repeated cry to:
>>
>> "Tell me how you use your computer and the hardware description and I'll
>> tell you if Vista is right for you" is kindergarten stuff.
>>
>> Joe Doaks may be using his computer one way today and then get a digital
>> camera and want to be rapidly processing mega-pixel image files a month
>> from now -- so that methodology is flawed from the get-go.
>>
>> Today's Requirements May Be A Far Cry From One's Requirements Six Months
>> From Now -- As Technologies & Requirements Evolve.
>>
>> The Burden of Proof is on Microsoft to tell us TEN Good Reasons why Vista
>> is better than XP Pro SP2 NOW.[/color]
>
> I'd like to but I can't even think of a single one...
>
> --
> Stephan Rose
> 2003 Yamaha R6
>
> ????????????????
> ?????????????[/color]

You can do all that with Japanese IME and XP, right?

As we have been told, only Vista Ultimate has such capabilities -- none of
the other versions allegedly allow you to have a truly multi-lingual
computer. You are allegedly limited to a single language when you activate
it. But what we have been told is VERY fuzzy, so it's unclear if that is
precisely accurate.

Then, even if you have Vista Ultimate, you MIGHT be required to buy a
separate Language Pack to have, say Russian capabilities, on the same
computer, rather than just downloading the appropriate files and fonts from
Microsoft. All that is very fuzzy and hazy too.

Kampai!

DSH

"Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
news:AuKdnQjWCexsrX7YRVnytgA@giganews.com...
[color=blue]
> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Ability to read, send, receive and print in another language -- and with
>> menus in that other language.[/color]
>
> And it can't do that?
>
> Well then there is another reason for me not to use it. **** that list
> keeps growing and growing =)
>
> --
> Stephan Rose
> 2003 Yamaha R6
>
> ????????????????
> ?????????????[/color]

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> The Burden of Proof is on Microsoft to tell us TEN Good Reasons why
>>> Vista is better than XP Pro SP2 NOW. -- DSH[/color]
>>
>> I'd like to but I can't even think of a single one...[/color]
>
> Stephan Rose
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sad.
>
> You live in Japan and use an English language computer with Japanese IME?
> How does that work out?[/color]

I wish I was in Japan! But I do use Japanese IME both with English version
of Kubuntu and XP Pro SP2.

It works out well in both cases actually, I am quite happy with it.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

君のこと思い出すひなんてないのは
君のこと忘れた時がないから

"HEMI-Powered" <none@none.xxx> wrote in message
news:Xns98E3841F7BF74ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...[color=blue]
>
> My old PC, now my wife's PC that replaced her old and slow Win
> 98SE system last year, is an AMD 1.6 GHz CPU machine with just
> 512 MB. It runs S-L-O-W! Part of it is memory and the rest is a
> small and SLOW HD. I could fix this, maybe, by upping the ram
> another half meg and replace the HD, but my strategy is to give
> her my PC when I build a new one, maybe this winter. See my other
> post for details on that. But, given my experience in a graphics
> environment with this old workhorse and my wife's limited surfing
> experience, and I would say that the paint on growing grass would
> still be wet when I cut the grass if she were runing Vista.
>[/color]
How big is the HD? IDE? 5400 or 7200?
Hard drive size, especially available hard drive size, has an impact on
speed. If Windows runs out of RAM, it uses hard drive for RAM with a swap
file, which could be why my system runs pretty smooth. I'm running a 1 GHz
AMD with 512 RAM with 2 HDs, a 120 GB and a 40 GB. I'm currently running
WinME on that, and it should work even better with XP. I wouldn't try Vista
on it...

"D. Spencer Hines" <poguemidden********.com> wrote in message
news:%23hUgyZdWHHA.5068@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Here we go again!
>
> TWO GB of RAM, as a minimum, if you intend to do any serious Photoshop
> work with Vista.
>
> The TRUTH is always SLOW to emerge in these discussions.
>
> We are beginning to clear away the bafflegab, blather, codswallop,
> balderdash and rusty boilerplate persiflage.
>
> "Your machine will run Vista" -- that should be the punch line to a bad
> joke.
>
> "Your car will run -- of course, climbing hills may be a problem -- or
> driving over 40 miles per hour."
>
> DSH
>[/color]
That's the thing right there. Your car will run, but do you need it to run
uphill? Steep hills?
Some people only ever drive on flat land.
I owned a 4 cylinder car once, which I once tried to drive up a steep hill,
where I literally had the gas pedal down as far as it would go to get up to
35 MPH.
You might need more power in your car if you need to be able to pull out
quickly onto a busy street...

> > Ah, OK -- so this is a research project then. Fair enough.[color=blue]
>
> No, not a research project at all. Just honest, straightforward questions.[/color]

Well, research includes honest, straightforward questions.[color=blue]
>[/color]
I've rarely found 'just out, buy it now' arguments compelling. Over
time though the environment changes (better drivers, software which
takes better advantage of the new OS, hardware optimized for the new
OS, that sort of thing). So eventually moving to Vista is likely to be
compelling for Windows users.

I do think Microsoft's plans to 'cycle' OS on a 24 to 30 month time
frame is not going to be that effective. But that is just my opinion
there. In any event, when presented with a 30 month OS cycle, my own
inclination is to skip releases. So I have some clients running
Windows 2000. Sometime next year they may well go to Vista. Clients
who just got new hardware last year are running XP and will likely run
it for three to four years.


--
Barry Schnur

D. Spencer Hines wrote:
[color=blue]
> You can do all that with Japanese IME and XP, right?[/color]

Well XP I can use the Japanese IME but there is no way I am aware of to
change the operating system language. So that basically limits the
capabilities to reading / writing text. You wouldn't have your menus,
buttons, texts, icons, etc. in a different language.

Kubuntu...I can use the IME and I can switch the entire operating system to
any language I want, at any moment I want, in real-time with a single mouse
click and don't even need to reboot as often as I want all day long.
[color=blue]
>
> As we have been told, only Vista Ultimate has such capabilities -- none of
> the other versions allegedly allow you to have a truly multi-lingual
> computer. You are allegedly limited to a single language when you
> activate
> it. But what we have been told is VERY fuzzy, so it's unclear if that is
> precisely accurate.[/color]

Well if it starts with "You have to buy ultimate..." I don't doubt it.
[color=blue]
>
> Then, even if you have Vista Ultimate, you MIGHT be required to buy a
> separate Language Pack to have, say Russian capabilities, on the same
> computer, rather than just downloading the appropriate files and fonts
> from
> Microsoft. All that is very fuzzy and hazy too.[/color]

I don't doubt that either.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

君のこと思い出すひなんてないのは
君のこと忘れた時がないから

It's open to question whether you can do that in Vista.

DSH

"Stephan Rose" <kermos@somrek.net> wrote in message
news:05idnTueT9nE237YRVnyjgA@giganews.com...
[color=blue]
> D. Spencer Hines wrote:
>[color=green]
>> You can do all that with Japanese IME and XP, right?[/color]
>
> Well XP I can use the Japanese IME but there is no way I am aware of to
> change the operating system language. So that basically limits the
> capabilities to reading / writing text. You wouldn't have your menus,
> buttons, texts, icons, etc. in a different language.
>
> Kubuntu...I can use the IME and I can switch the entire operating system
> to any language I want, at any moment I want, in real-time with a single
> mouse click and don't even need to reboot as often as I want all day long.
>[color=green]
>> As we have been told, only Vista Ultimate has such capabilities -- none
>> of the other versions allegedly allow you to have a truly multi-lingual
>> computer. You are allegedly limited to a single language when you
>> activate it. But what we have been told is VERY fuzzy, so it's unclear
>> if that is precisely accurate.[/color]
>
> Well if it starts with "You have to buy ultimate..." I don't doubt it.
>[color=green]
>>
>> Then, even if you have Vista Ultimate, you MIGHT be required to buy a
>> separate Language Pack to have, say Russian capabilities, on the same
>> computer, rather than just downloading the appropriate files and fonts
>> from Microsoft. All that is very fuzzy and hazy too.[/color]
>
> I don't doubt that either.
>
> --
> Stephan Rose
> 2003 Yamaha R6
>
> ????????????????
> ?????????????[/color]

Today, Eric made these interesting comments ...
[color=blue]
>
> "HEMI-Powered" <none@none.xxx> wrote in message
> news:Xns98E3841F7BF74ReplyScoreID@216.168.3.30...[color=green]
>>
>> My old PC, now my wife's PC that replaced her old and slow
>> Win 98SE system last year, is an AMD 1.6 GHz CPU machine with
>> just 512 MB. It runs S-L-O-W! Part of it is memory and the
>> rest is a small and SLOW HD. I could fix this, maybe, by
>> upping the ram another half meg and replace the HD, but my
>> strategy is to give her my PC when I build a new one, maybe
>> this winter. See my other post for details on that. But,
>> given my experience in a graphics environment with this old
>> workhorse and my wife's limited surfing experience, and I
>> would say that the paint on growing grass would still be wet
>> when I cut the grass if she were runing Vista.
>>[/color]
> How big is the HD? IDE? 5400 or 7200?
> Hard drive size, especially available hard drive size, has an
> impact on speed. If Windows runs out of RAM, it uses hard
> drive for RAM with a swap file, which could be why my system
> runs pretty smooth. I'm running a 1 GHz AMD with 512 RAM with
> 2 HDs, a 120 GB and a 40 GB. I'm currently running WinME on
> that, and it should work even better with XP. I wouldn't try
> Vista on it...
>[/color]
This is a pointless debate, Eric. I am system aware and can
determine my destiny just fine. The description I have already
provided is enough for you to answer your own questions.

--
HP, aka Jerry

Today, D. Spencer Hines made these interesting comments ...

Spence, by and large, you are correct, but speaking to the choir.
Thinking people not easily swayed by marketing hype designed to
scare them aren't worried. And, the last time I looked, nobody
was holding an Uzi to anyone's head to make them BUY an new O/S.
The real issue, not necessarily being debated here is what do NEW
PC buyers do? Ya can't buy XP anymore.
[color=blue]
> This risible business about "being told to uninstall a few
> applications because Vista won't run with them" -- before
> installing Vista on a box is appalling.
>
> I certainly don't want to uninstall any applications in order
> to make Vista operate properly.
>
> Far better to wait until applications and Vista are more
> sympatico with each other and THEN install Vista -- IF someone
> can tell us TEN Good Reasons that are not fluff, smoke and
> mirrors why Vista is far better than XP Pro SP2.
>
> I'll even buy an entirely new system if required.
>
> This silly-buggers, repeated cry to:
>
> "Tell me how you use your computer and the hardware
> description and I'll tell you if Vista is right for you" is
> kindergarten stuff.
>
> Joe Doaks may be using his computer one way today and then get
> a digital camera and want to be rapidly processing mega-pixel
> image files a month from now -- so that methodology is flawed
> from the get-go.
>
> Today's Requirements May Be A Far Cry From One's Requirements
> Six Months From Now -- As Technologies & Requirements Evolve.
>
> The Burden of Proof is on Microsoft to tell us TEN Good
> Reasons why Vista is better than XP Pro SP2 NOW.
>
> So far, they have struck out.
>
> Is anyone still buying Windows Millennium Edition that was
> once so widely touted as a breakthrough edition?
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
> Fortem Posce Animum
>
>
>[/color]



--
HP, aka Jerry