I have a (somewhat) computer illiterate relative who bought a new PC
with Vista Home Premium installed. I visited recently in an attempt to help
him set things up. I only used the computer for a few hours, so my
information is undoubtedly incomplete (and maybe even inaccurate), but here
are my INITIAL impressions:

1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
sure looked weird to me.
2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.
3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
menu text and scroll bars very limited. Perhaps I just couldn't find the
proper settings area. With XP, you merely right-click the desktop, click
Properties, then Appearance tab. Once there, you have dozens and dozens of
options for changing XP's look. Where is this option with Vista?
4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!!
5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
compatibility wizard, but no luck.
6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo Widgets.
More customizable.
7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying. I
wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.
8) Aero is slick-looking.
9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.
10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
addition.

Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
more and will leave it alone on my computer.

"History Fan" <UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote in message
news:up8hJJ4THHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> I have a (somewhat) computer illiterate relative who bought a new PC
> with Vista Home Premium installed. I visited recently in an attempt to
> help him set things up. I only used the computer for a few hours, so my
> information is undoubtedly incomplete (and maybe even inaccurate), but
> here are my INITIAL impressions:
>
> 1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
> sure looked weird to me.
> 2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
> and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.
> 3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
> menu text and scroll bars very limited. Perhaps I just couldn't find the
> proper settings area. With XP, you merely right-click the desktop, click
> Properties, then Appearance tab. Once there, you have dozens and dozens
> of options for changing XP's look. Where is this option with Vista?
> 4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!!
> 5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
> work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
> compatibility wizard, but no luck.
> 6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo
> Widgets. More customizable.
> 7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying.
> I wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
> this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.
> 8) Aero is slick-looking.
> 9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.
> 10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
> addition.
>
> Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
> computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
> more and will leave it alone on my computer.[/color]
I'd update in a second if the drivers were there.

This is like sitting in a new car for 10 minutes (say, a Mercedes, for
example) and complaining that the controls were not in the places you were
used to with your Yugo (do they still make those!) LOL!
[color=blue]
> 1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
> sure looked weird to me.[/color]

Well, I agree. Good thing they they are easily configurable to smaller
versions.
[color=blue]
> 2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
> and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.[/color]

Different strokes. I like Clear Type. But again, you can just turn it off.
[color=blue]
> 3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
> menu text and scroll bars very limited. Perhaps I just couldn't find the
> proper settings area.[/color]

It may be a little more limited than XP was, right now. But like XP, things
will change as it gets wider distribution.
[color=blue]
> 4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![/color]

I didn't think any version of MS OS came with fax software. I thought this
either came with an installed fax/modem or an add-on app, like MS Works or
MS Office, for example.
[color=blue]
> 5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
> work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
> compatibility wizard, but no luck.[/color]

Yeah, could be.
[color=blue]
> 6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo
> Widgets. More customizable.[/color]

I like the Windows sidebar Gadgets. However, it's not the included Gadgets
that matter so much. The real enhancement is the integrated sidebar that
provides a platform for a plethora of MS and third party gadgets, over time.
[color=blue]
> 7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying.
> I wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
> this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.[/color]

These two things are unrelated. Preventing a program (like Crap-Cleaner)
from running is normally because Vista knows it is not compatible with the
OS (from a known non-compatible database). The warnings you are getting can
be turned off with a couple of clicks (after you spend more than 10 minutes
in your new car :) ).
[color=blue]
> 8) Aero is slick-looking.[/color]

Agreed.
[color=blue]
> 9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.[/color]

Yes.
[color=blue]
> 10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
> addition.[/color]

Yes.
[color=blue]
> Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
> computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
> more and will leave it alone on my computer.[/color]

As a consultant, I advise most folks to leave well enough alone, as far as
upgrades go. Buy Vista on a new box but don't mess with your old one. But it
depends. Geeks that like bleeding edge should probably upgrade after
examining all their existing hardware/software/drivers for compatibility.

-Frank

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:18:59 -0500, "History Fan"
<UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![/color]
This is wrong
start>all programs> Windows Fax and Scan

"bp" <6ball@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:19o3t2pj7gdg2u8b2sm3hqjn3uto349t6j@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:18:59 -0500, "History Fan"
> <UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![/color]
> This is wrong
> start>all programs> Windows Fax and Scan[/color]


I looked there and didn't see any Windows Fax and Scan. From
cnet.com's review of Vista Premium:

<<We disagree with the exclusion of Windows Fax and Scan from Windows Vista
Home Premium; you'll now need to buy third-party fax software to send that
occasional facsimile>>

>> 4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![color=blue]
>
> I didn't think any version of MS OS came with fax software. I thought this
> either came with an installed fax/modem or an add-on app, like MS Works or
> MS Office, for example.[/color]

With Windows XP, the fax software is usually already installed, unless
you're upgrading to XP. Then you can install it from the XP installation
CD-ROM.

"History Fan" <UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote in message
news:up8hJJ4THHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> 1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
> sure looked weird to me.[/color]

During Vista's lifetime, most of use will be moving to high definition LCD
screens. Have you seen how tiny the icons look on a laptop with an HD
screen? I actually still use 22" diamondtron flat CRT screens as I do CAD
and graphics work, and set them at 2048 x 1536. The bigger icons are much
more usable than they were in XP, for me.

ss.

some of the gadgets have more options when you undock them from the sidebar.
like weather gadget for example.
instead of just temp, it presents forecasts.

[email]mikeyhsd@sport.rr.commikeyhsd@sport.rr.com[/email]

"History Fan" <UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote in message news:up8hJJ4THHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
I have a (somewhat) computer illiterate relative who bought a new PC
with Vista Home Premium installed. I visited recently in an attempt to help
him set things up. I only used the computer for a few hours, so my
information is undoubtedly incomplete (and maybe even inaccurate), but here
are my INITIAL impressions:

1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
sure looked weird to me.
2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.
3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
menu text and scroll bars very limited. Perhaps I just couldn't find the
proper settings area. With XP, you merely right-click the desktop, click
Properties, then Appearance tab. Once there, you have dozens and dozens of
options for changing XP's look. Where is this option with Vista?
4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!!
5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
compatibility wizard, but no luck.
6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo Widgets.
More customizable.
7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying. I
wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.
8) Aero is slick-looking.
9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.
10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
addition.

Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
more and will leave it alone on my computer.

Personally I believe confirmations required when making system settings etc
are worth it just for the extra security.
After you've set up the computer, there are very few occasions when you get
these prompts.

"History Fan" <UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote in message
news:up8hJJ4THHA.3980@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> I have a (somewhat) computer illiterate relative who bought a new PC
> with Vista Home Premium installed. I visited recently in an attempt to
> help him set things up. I only used the computer for a few hours, so my
> information is undoubtedly incomplete (and maybe even inaccurate), but
> here are my INITIAL impressions:
>
> 1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
> sure looked weird to me.
> 2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
> and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.
> 3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
> menu text and scroll bars very limited. Perhaps I just couldn't find the
> proper settings area. With XP, you merely right-click the desktop, click
> Properties, then Appearance tab. Once there, you have dozens and dozens
> of options for changing XP's look. Where is this option with Vista?
> 4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!!
> 5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
> work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
> compatibility wizard, but no luck.
> 6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo
> Widgets. More customizable.
> 7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying.
> I wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
> this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.
> 8) Aero is slick-looking.
> 9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.
> 10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
> addition.
>
> Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
> computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
> more and will leave it alone on my computer.
>[/color]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 11:50:06 -0500, "History Fan"
<UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"bp" <6ball@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:19o3t2pj7gdg2u8b2sm3hqjn3uto349t6j@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:18:59 -0500, "History Fan"
>> <UnknownplacesonEarth@unknown11.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![/color]
>> This is wrong
>> start>all programs> Windows Fax and Scan[/color]
>
>
> I looked there and didn't see any Windows Fax and Scan. From
>cnet.com's review of Vista Premium:
>
><<We disagree with the exclusion of Windows Fax and Scan from Windows Vista
>Home Premium; you'll now need to buy third-party fax software to send that
>occasional facsimile>>
>[/color]
Oh I'm sorry I thought you were talking about ultimate.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:18:59 -0500, "History Fan"
[color=blue]
> I have a (somewhat) computer illiterate relative who bought a new PC
>with Vista Home Premium installed. I visited recently in an attempt to help
>him set things up. I only used the computer for a few hours, so my
>information is undoubtedly incomplete (and maybe even inaccurate), but here
>are my INITIAL impressions:[/color]
[color=blue]
>1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
>sure looked weird to me.[/color]

Yeah, OK... I happen to agree, but it's not an OMG! biggie...
[color=blue]
>2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
>and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.[/color]

LCD? If so, was Vista running it at non-native resolution?
[color=blue]
>3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
>menu text and scroll bars very limited. With XP, you merely right-click the
>desktop, click Properties, then Appearance tab. Once there, you have
>dozens and dozens of options for changing XP's look.
>Where is this option with Vista?[/color]

Personalize, but I don't know how much control you have there,
[color=blue]
>4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![/color]

That is a bit surprising! There was I hoping that MS would finally
rise to the challenge of voice chipsets (been around since ISA bus)
and make a combined answering machine and fax. Oh, well.
[color=blue]
>5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
>work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
>compatibility wizard, but no luck.[/color]

I agree; not too amazing. What interface is it - is it USB, parallel,
or some sort of awful "special" card? Not sure if Vista's going to
thrill to the legact parallel port for anything other than printing.
[color=blue]
>6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo Widgets.
>More customizable.[/color]

I'm not a fan of desktop clutter and push, so I turn it off. I hate
BHOs and browser toolbars in particular, and don't trust any of 'em.
[color=blue]
>7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying. I
>wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
>this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.[/color]

Depends on what settings you change. It should alert on changes that
are system-wide, i.e. beyond the user's account.

This may be new to Windows, but pop-ups like this are common in Linux
(which usually asks for a password) and MacOS. The lack of this is
one of the things these folks refer to when they say Windows is "less
secure". There are ways to minimize the prompts, other than turning
off UAC; the only remaining time they are a nuisance for me is if I
edit the Start Menu for All Users.

As Crap Cleaner digs around in system temp locations etc. it's hardly
surprising that Vista's UAC will alert on it.

You can set shortcuts to operate as administrator, and thus work, but
you cannot do this for a shortcut that is in the startup axis. I
think you can figure why that's a Good Thing :-)
[color=blue]
>8) Aero is slick-looking.[/color]

Yup. Basic's pretty cool too, and just as functional.
[color=blue]
>9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.[/color]

I don't remember those...
[color=blue]
>10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
>addition.[/color]

Yep.
[color=blue]
> Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
>computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
>more and will leave it alone on my computer.[/color]

Prolly best - old PCs and new OSs don't go together. I'd refuse
delivery of a new PC with XP instead of Vista on it, though.

Some of my first-impression picks would be:

1) I love the drop-down-navigable path in Explorer!!
2) Nice to have 2-pane view by default
3) Navigation into .Zip etc. no longer pops new 1-pane windows
4) Rename a file now excludes the .ext from editing; nice
5) Namespace / filespecs are confusing until you figure it out
6) Better shell folder logic; lumps no longer with Documents
7) Goodbye to that patronizing "My..." nonsense
8) The Downloads location suggests a glimmering safety clue
9) Good plain-English explanation of safety issues etc.
A) Much easier to manage LAN settings e.g. toggle F&PS
B) Can't stop RPC failures restarting PC (bad news)
C) Still some stupid duhfaults, e.g. hiding file name extensions
D) IE 7 no longer hogs chunks of C: for cache
E) System Restore no longer plays with non-C: HD volumes (yay!!)
F) System Restore disk usage can't be set (boo!)
G) ChkDsk on-screen reporting is a bit better
H) Defrag's ugly; basically, no UI, map or progress indicator
I) Start Menu is better, especially if left to grow wild
J) Impressive recovery and retry when app installations fail

There's a LOT beneath the surface, such as the reliability monitor,
DVD boot mOS mode, user availability of WAIK anf WinPE, etc.

I'd say Vista is more significant than XP after Win9x, and less
significant than Win95 after Win3.yuk


[color=blue]
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]
Saws are too hard to use.
Be easier to use![color=blue]
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 10:18:59 -0500, "History Fan"
>[color=green]
> > I have a (somewhat) computer illiterate relative who bought a new PC
> >with Vista Home Premium installed. I visited recently in an attempt to help
> >him set things up. I only used the computer for a few hours, so my
> >information is undoubtedly incomplete (and maybe even inaccurate), but here
> >are my INITIAL impressions:[/color]
>[color=green]
> >1) I hate the large desktop icons. I know they can be resized, but they
> >sure looked weird to me.[/color]
>
> Yeah, OK... I happen to agree, but it's not an OMG! biggie...
>[color=green]
> >2) Vista has ClearType enabled by default. I was asked to turn this off,
> >and did so, yet I still didn't like the appearance of the font and menus.[/color]
>
> LCD? If so, was Vista running it at non-native resolution?
>[color=green]
> >3) Speaking of appearances, I found the options for changing things like
> >menu text and scroll bars very limited. With XP, you merely right-click the
> >desktop, click Properties, then Appearance tab. Once there, you have
> >dozens and dozens of options for changing XP's look.
> >Where is this option with Vista?[/color]
>
> Personalize, but I don't know how much control you have there,
>[color=green]
> >4) To my amazement, Vista Premium does not have any fax software!![/color]
>
> That is a bit surprising! There was I hoping that MS would finally
> rise to the challenge of voice chipsets (been around since ISA bus)
> and make a combined answering machine and fax. Oh, well.
>[color=green]
> >5) Not to my amazement, my relative's 6 year old flatbed scanner does not
> >work with Vista. At least I couldn't get it to. I tinkered with Vista's
> >compatibility wizard, but no luck.[/color]
>
> I agree; not too amazing. What interface is it - is it USB, parallel,
> or some sort of awful "special" card? Not sure if Vista's going to
> thrill to the legact parallel port for anything other than printing.
>[color=green]
> >6) The Vista Sidebar is okay, but in all candor I prefer the Yahoo Widgets.
> >More customizable.[/color]
>
> I'm not a fan of desktop clutter and push, so I turn it off. I hate
> BHOs and browser toolbars in particular, and don't trust any of 'em.
>[color=green]
> >7) The extreme security measures enabled in Vista can be quite annoying. I
> >wanted to configure Crap-Cleaner to run at startup, but Vista prevented
> >this. Plus you seem to get warnings every time you make a setting change.[/color]
>
> Depends on what settings you change. It should alert on changes that
> are system-wide, i.e. beyond the user's account.
>
> This may be new to Windows, but pop-ups like this are common in Linux
> (which usually asks for a password) and MacOS. The lack of this is
> one of the things these folks refer to when they say Windows is "less
> secure". There are ways to minimize the prompts, other than turning
> off UAC; the only remaining time they are a nuisance for me is if I
> edit the Start Menu for All Users.
>
> As Crap Cleaner digs around in system temp locations etc. it's hardly
> surprising that Vista's UAC will alert on it.
>
> You can set shortcuts to operate as administrator, and thus work, but
> you cannot do this for a shortcut that is in the startup axis. I
> think you can figure why that's a Good Thing :-)
>[color=green]
> >8) Aero is slick-looking.[/color]
>
> Yup. Basic's pretty cool too, and just as functional.
>[color=green]
> >9) The extra options for desktop wallpaper is nice.[/color]
>
> I don't remember those...
>[color=green]
> >10) Having a anti-spyware notification in the Security Center is a good
> >addition.[/color]
>
> Yep.
>[color=green]
> > Before this experience, I had a strong inclination to upgrade my
> >computer to Vista, at least eventually. Afterwards, I appreciate XP much
> >more and will leave it alone on my computer.[/color]
>
> Prolly best - old PCs and new OSs don't go together. I'd refuse
> delivery of a new PC with XP instead of Vista on it, though.
>
> Some of my first-impression picks would be:
>
> 1) I love the drop-down-navigable path in Explorer!!
> 2) Nice to have 2-pane view by default
> 3) Navigation into .Zip etc. no longer pops new 1-pane windows
> 4) Rename a file now excludes the .ext from editing; nice
> 5) Namespace / filespecs are confusing until you figure it out
> 6) Better shell folder logic; lumps no longer with Documents
> 7) Goodbye to that patronizing "My..." nonsense
> 8) The Downloads location suggests a glimmering safety clue
> 9) Good plain-English explanation of safety issues etc.
> A) Much easier to manage LAN settings e.g. toggle F&PS
> B) Can't stop RPC failures restarting PC (bad news)
> C) Still some stupid duhfaults, e.g. hiding file name extensions
> D) IE 7 no longer hogs chunks of C: for cache
> E) System Restore no longer plays with non-C: HD volumes (yay!!)
> F) System Restore disk usage can't be set (boo!)
> G) ChkDsk on-screen reporting is a bit better
> H) Defrag's ugly; basically, no UI, map or progress indicator
> I) Start Menu is better, especially if left to grow wild
> J) Impressive recovery and retry when app installations fail
>
> There's a LOT beneath the surface, such as the reliability monitor,
> DVD boot mOS mode, user availability of WAIK anf WinPE, etc.
>
> I'd say Vista is more significant than XP after Win9x, and less
> significant than Win95 after Win3.yuk
>
>
>[color=green]
> >--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]
> Saws are too hard to use.
> Be easier to use![color=green]
> >--------------- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]
> Sounds to me that Vista is Not user friendly to your average home user, like XP was and is. All you said was greek to an average joe like me[/color]