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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 06:02 PM
Mateusz Rajca
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build my
own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I will
build?

~Matt
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:02 PM
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

Uninstall the current license in use on the current PC Vista Ultimate is
presently installed. How do you do that, format the computer, then go ahead
and install Vista on the new computer. If you encounter any problems
activating, call to Microsoft and explain to them.
--
Andre
Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
"Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FA434919-35E7-4E2D-9CF4-77AC47754DD9@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build my
> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
> will
> build?
>
> ~Matt[/color]


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 06:31 PM
Rock
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

"Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
[color=blue]
> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build my
> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
> will
> build?[/color]

Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on which
it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 07:00 PM
Andy
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?


"Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>[color=green]
>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>> my
>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
>> will
>> build?[/color]
>
> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on which
> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>
> --
> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell][/color]

Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? - effectively
but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one PC
have I understood correctly?



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Donald McDaniel
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message news:eqokjr$1gk$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
>
> "Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build my
>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
>>> will
>>> build?[/color]
>>
>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on which
>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>
>> --
>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell][/color]
>
> Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
> effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? - effectively
> but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one PC
> have I understood correctly?
>
>
>[/color]

Sorry, Andy, but your "understanding" is not correct. NO retail version of
Windows is EVER able to be installed on both a desktop AND a laptop, using the
same Product Key.

Microsoft's hard-and-fast rule has always been, and more than probably will
continue to be "One License, One Computer. PERIOD".

Some versions of *Microsoft Office* (in the past) were allowed to be installed
on both your desktop and your laptop using the same Product Key, but both were
not to be used at the same time. This is probably where you got your
misunderstanding from. You assumed (as do many) that if Office has that
license, then so does Windows. But this is not true, nor has it ever been.

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original newsgroup and thread.
------------------------------------------------------


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 08:00 PM
Kerry Brown
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

If you want to lie many things are possible. Doesn't make it right.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
[url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]


"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:eqokjr$1gk$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
>
> "Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>> my
>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
>>> will
>>> build?[/color]
>>
>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>> which it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>
>> --
>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell][/color]
>
> Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
> effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
> effectively but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put
> that on one PC have I understood correctly?
>
>
>[/color]

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 08:02 PM
Rock
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote
[color=blue]
>
> "Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote[/color]
[color=blue][color=green]
>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>> my
>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
>>> will
>>> build?[/color]
>>
>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>> which it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
> effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
> effectively but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put
> that on one PC have I understood correctly?[/color]

No you haven't. The rule is one license, one computer, doesn't matter if
it's OEM or retail. So the same copy can't be on the desktop and laptop.
What prevents it ? The license agreement you agreed to and product
activation.

For OEM the license limits it to the first computer on which it's installed;
it can't be moved to another computer. For retail if first removed from one
computer it can be placed on another.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 08:45 PM
Scott
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:49:33 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
thusly:
[color=blue]
>
>"Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
>news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>> my
>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
>>> will
>>> build?[/color]
>>
>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on which
>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>
>> --
>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell][/color]
>
>Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
>effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? - effectively
>but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one PC
>have I understood correctly?[/color]

It would seem to me that once you tried to activate it on the 2nd
machine you'd run into a brick wall.

Back in the pre-activation days, that was another story...
--
Scott [url]http://angrykeyboarder.com[/url]

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 06:33 AM
Andy
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?


"Donald McDaniel" <orthocross@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:e5W7idlTHHA.3948@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:eqokjr$1gk$1@news.datemas.de...[color=green]
>>
>> "Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>>> my
>>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that
>>>> I will
>>>> build?
>>>
>>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in
>>> for activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>>> which it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell][/color]
>>
>> Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
>> effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
>> effectively but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put
>> that on one PC have I understood correctly?
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Sorry, Andy, but your "understanding" is not correct. NO retail version
> of Windows is EVER able to be installed on both a desktop AND a laptop,
> using the same Product Key.[/color]



Windows 95/98/ME ? Physically it has been possible (although not legal)


[color=blue]
>
> Microsoft's hard-and-fast rule has always been, and more than probably
> will continue to be "One License, One Computer. PERIOD".
>
> Some versions of *Microsoft Office* (in the past) were allowed to be
> installed on both your desktop and your laptop using the same Product Key,
> but both were not to be used at the same time. This is probably where you
> got your misunderstanding from. You assumed (as do many) that if Office
> has that license, then so does Windows. But this is not true, nor has it
> ever been.
>
> --
> Donald L McDaniel
> Please reply to the original newsgroup and thread.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
>[/color]


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 06:46 AM
Andy
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?


"Scott" <geekboy@angrykeyboarder.comatose> wrote in message
news:e9rvs2dle6k9i7if8bhuv16bd5jhg5j5f0@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:49:33 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
> thusly:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>>> my
>>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that
>>>> I
>>>> will
>>>> build?
>>>
>>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in
>>> for
>>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>>> which
>>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell][/color]
>>
>>Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
>>effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
>>effectively
>>but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one
>>PC
>>have I understood correctly?[/color]
>
> It would seem to me that once you tried to activate it on the 2nd
> machine you'd run into a brick wall.
>
> Back in the pre-activation days, that was another story...
> --
> Scott [url]http://angrykeyboarder.com[/url]
>
> A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
> Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?[/color]


I thought I saw an article once in a PC magazine that said the activation
thing was taken away in Vista because just in case you wanted to upgrade or
change your PC the Vista that you bought would carry on working fine now as
opposed with XP which knew it was on another PC and would not activate.



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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 09:16 AM
Mateusz Rajca
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

OK. Thanks! Would this work for Office 2007 too?

Matt



"Rock" wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>[color=green]
> > Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build my
> > own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that I
> > will
> > build?[/color]
>
> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on which
> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>
> --
> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
>
>[/color]
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 01:01 PM
Rock
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

"Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
[color=blue]
> OK. Thanks! Would this work for Office 2007 too?[/color]
[color=blue]
> "Rock" wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>[color=darkred]
>> > Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>> > my
>> > own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that
>> > I
>> > will
>> > build?[/color]
>>
>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in for
>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>> which
>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.[/color][/color]

You're welcome. I am not versed in Office 2007 licensing, but if it's a
retail version then certainly, yes it can be moved If it's OEM I believe
it's tied to the first system.

--
Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 09:17 PM
Scott
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:31:55 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
thusly:
[color=blue]
>
>"Scott" <geekboy@angrykeyboarder.comatose> wrote in message
>news:e9rvs2dle6k9i7if8bhuv16bd5jhg5j5f0@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:49:33 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
>> thusly:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>"Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>>>> my
>>>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that
>>>>> I
>>>>> will
>>>>> build?
>>>>
>>>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>>>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in
>>>> for
>>>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>>>> which
>>>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
>>>
>>>Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
>>>effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
>>>effectively
>>>but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one
>>>PC
>>>have I understood correctly?[/color]
>>
>> It would seem to me that once you tried to activate it on the 2nd
>> machine you'd run into a brick wall.
>>
>> Back in the pre-activation days, that was another story...[/color]
>
>
>I thought I saw an article once in a PC magazine that said the activation
>thing was taken away in Vista because just in case you wanted to upgrade or
>change your PC the Vista that you bought would carry on working fine now as
>opposed with XP which knew it was on another PC and would not activate.[/color]

Nope. It's very much alive. And if you don't activate within 30 days
of install, you lose most functionality.
--
Scott [url]http://angrykeyboarder.com[/url]

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2007, 10:48 PM
Donald McDaniel
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

"Scott" <geekboy@angrykeyboarder.comatose> wrote in message
news:1th2t2d40u65vddp5ilrfjm7llaf5fps00@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:31:55 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
> thusly:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Scott" <geekboy@angrykeyboarder.comatose> wrote in message
>>news:e9rvs2dle6k9i7if8bhuv16bd5jhg5j5f0@4ax.com...[color=darkred]
>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:49:33 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
>>> thusly:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> build?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>>>>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in
>>>>> for
>>>>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>>>>> which
>>>>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
>>>>
>>>>Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
>>>>effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
>>>>effectively
>>>>but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one
>>>>PC
>>>>have I understood correctly?
>>>
>>> It would seem to me that once you tried to activate it on the 2nd
>>> machine you'd run into a brick wall.
>>>
>>> Back in the pre-activation days, that was another story...[/color]
>>
>>
>>I thought I saw an article once in a PC magazine that said the activation
>>thing was taken away in Vista because just in case you wanted to upgrade or
>>change your PC the Vista that you bought would carry on working fine now as
>>opposed with XP which knew it was on another PC and would not activate.[/color]
>
> Nope. It's very much alive. And if you don't activate within 30 days
> of install, you lose most functionality.
> --
> Scott [url]http://angrykeyboarder.com[/url]
>[/color]

Actually,. Scott, there is a mechanism in Vista which enables one to extend
the 30 day grace period in which to activate up to 120 days.

So Microsoft is being very circumspect this time around.

Please educate yourself?

--
Donald L McDaniel
Please reply to the original newsgroup and thread.
------------------------------------------------------

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-16-2007, 09:31 AM
Scott
Newsgroup Contributor
 
Posts: n/a
Re: How to transfer Vista license to another PC?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:36:24 -0800, "Donald McDaniel"
<orthocross@invalid.invalid> spake thusly:
[color=blue]
>"Scott" <geekboy@angrykeyboarder.comatose> wrote in message
>news:1th2t2d40u65vddp5ilrfjm7llaf5fps00@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 14:31:55 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
>> thusly:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>"Scott" <geekboy@angrykeyboarder.comatose> wrote in message
>>>news:e9rvs2dle6k9i7if8bhuv16bd5jhg5j5f0@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:49:33 -0000, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> spake
>>>> thusly:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Rock" <Rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:e3qvYvkTHHA.1036@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> "Mateusz Rajca" <MateuszRajca@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Guys! I bought a copy of Vista Ultimate but now am planning to build
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> own computer. How can I transfer my Vista license to the computer that
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> build?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it a retail license or OEM? If retail just uninstall Vista from the
>>>>>> first machine and reinstall on the new one. You may have to phone in
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> activation. If OEM by the license it's tied to the first machine on
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> it's installed and can't be transferred to a different machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Rock [MS-MVP User/Shell]
>>>>>
>>>>>Basing on that info, if you buy a retail version of Vista that means
>>>>>effectively you can load onto both a desktop and your laptop? -
>>>>>effectively
>>>>>but not legally. Whereas an OEM physically you can only put that on one
>>>>>PC
>>>>>have I understood correctly?
>>>>
>>>> It would seem to me that once you tried to activate it on the 2nd
>>>> machine you'd run into a brick wall.
>>>>
>>>> Back in the pre-activation days, that was another story...
>>>
>>>
>>>I thought I saw an article once in a PC magazine that said the activation
>>>thing was taken away in Vista because just in case you wanted to upgrade or
>>>change your PC the Vista that you bought would carry on working fine now as
>>>opposed with XP which knew it was on another PC and would not activate.[/color]
>>
>> Nope. It's very much alive. And if you don't activate within 30 days
>> of install, you lose most functionality.
>> --
>> Scott [url]http://angrykeyboarder.com[/url]
>>[/color]
>
>Actually,. Scott, there is a mechanism in Vista which enables one to extend
>the 30 day grace period in which to activate up to 120 days.
>
>So Microsoft is being very circumspect this time around.
>[/color]

I am. The mechanism you mention is *not* a default.
--
Scott [url]http://angrykeyboarder.com[/url]

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
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