Vadim Igorev wrote:[color=blue]
> Gordon wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I'm sorry, but if you are only now complaining about Vista performance
>> after OVER TWO YEARS then no-one is going to listen to you...[/color]
> I'm complaining now, because I feel deja-vu all over again - all those
> shills online badmouthing Vista 1 and preaching Vista 7, as they were
> badmouthing XP 2 years ago in 2007 and pushing me and my wife to
> "upgrade" to Vista. What I'm trying to say is: "Fool me once, thank you
> very much". Vista is actually usable now after all those service packs
> (wifi on the laptop still drops regularly, though). Would I have my
> current knowledge of life, I'd happily continued to use XP up to 2010 at
> least (that is, until SP1 for Vista 7 is released) and then, maybe,
> "upgrade". Vista 1 did not improve my daily productivity at all,
> actually for the first year or so it brought it down substantially.[/color]

So install XP and be done with it. My question is why you put up with
Vista so long.

Alias

Alias wrote:
[color=blue]
> So install XP and be done with it. My question is why you put up with
> Vista so long.[/color]

Because I was a gullible idiot. I thought - just another month or so and
it will be better. It indeed became much better after latest service
pack - on desktop. On the laptop - there were no drivers available for
the wifi card and hardware buttons (talk about commercial conspiracy
here) - so there was no way to install full-featured XP on the laptop.

Vadim Igorev wrote:[color=blue]
> Alias wrote:
>[color=green]
>> So install XP and be done with it. My question is why you put up with
>> Vista so long.[/color]
>
> Because I was a gullible idiot. I thought - just another month or so and
> it will be better. It indeed became much better after latest service
> pack - on desktop. On the laptop - there were no drivers available for
> the wifi card and hardware buttons (talk about commercial conspiracy
> here) - so there was no way to install full-featured XP on the laptop.[/color]

I bet installing Ubuntu wouldn't be a problem ...

Alias

smlunatick wrote:
[color=blue]
> You have purchased these PCs from another company besides Microsoft.
> It is those companies who has hid the prices of Vista since they
> included Vista on their products and not Microsoft.[/color]

Of course it was MicroSoft blackmailing hardware companies, which, in
turn, are completely dependent on Redmond's offer. Need links to the
recent story about Asus (or was it Acer) canceling the newly-announced
line of the ARM-based inexpensive netbooks - because they could not run
Windows (except for WinCE) but running Linux for many hours and very well?

Alias wrote:
[color=blue]
> I bet installing Ubuntu wouldn't be a problem ...[/color]

I do not know. Anyway, "Karen Jayne Panzke" prohibited me from doing so.

Vadim Igorev wrote:[color=blue]
> Will MicroSoft return my money for Vista Home Premium (Toshiba laptop)
> and Vista Ultimate (HP desktop) me and my wife bought on the hype in
> early 2007? Her laptop wireless is still hardly usable, and I had
> numerous troubles with Vista itself and peripherals in the last 2 years
> (why did we not stick to XP instead?)
>
> I will not be "upgrading" to Vista 7 or whatever other oncoming hack by
> MS, unless the chair-thrower returns my money with 2-year interest and
> apologies.[/color]

Windows OEM refunds:
[url]http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040[/url]
[url]http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/31/1215248/Amazon-US-Refunds-Windows-License-Fee-Too[/url]
[url]http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381[/url]

But you would have had much better luck if you had been seeking this
from the day you bought it.

--
"Software is like sex, it's better when it's free."
- Linus Torvalds

DRM and unintended consequences:
[url]http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=435&tag=nl.e101[/url]

Vadim Igorev <jhRcME@SMkdCb.edu> wrote in news:hb7p2h$3hp$1@aioe.org:
[color=blue]
> Gordon wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I'm sorry, but if you are only now complaining about Vista performance
>> after OVER TWO YEARS then no-one is going to listen to you...[/color]
> I'm complaining now, because I feel deja-vu all over again - all those
> shills online badmouthing Vista 1 and preaching Vista 7, as they were
> badmouthing XP 2 years ago in 2007 and pushing me and my wife to
> "upgrade" to Vista. What I'm trying to say is: "Fool me once, thank you
> very much". Vista is actually usable now after all those service packs
> (wifi on the laptop still drops regularly, though). Would I have my
> current knowledge of life, I'd happily continued to use XP up to 2010 at
> least (that is, until SP1 for Vista 7 is released)[/color]

Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.

The poster formerly known as 'The Poster Formerly Known as Nina DiBoy'
wrote:
[color=blue]
> Windows OEM refunds:
> [url]http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040[/url]
> [url]http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/07/31/1215248/Amazon-US-Refunds-Windows-License-Fee-Too[/url]
>
> [url]http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381[/url]
>
> But you would have had much better luck if you had been seeking this
> from the day you bought it.[/color]

Thanks for good links, but... First of all, we bought our 2 computers in
March 2007 from CircuitCity - where should I go for refund these days?
Secondly, our Vista Ultimate desktop works as well now, as an XP Pro
machine from some 4 years back, so we do not have the reason anymore to
ask for refund. The Toshiba laptop will be sent to our relatives in
Eastern Europe, who won't be using wifi anyway (and ethernet works well
on that machine under Vista Home Premium).

DanS wrote:
[color=blue]
> Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.[/color]

Exactly, so how come I cannot get it for free - as I got SP1 and SP2?
Mr. Chair-thrower, please give me my service pack, I paid for it back in
March 2007...

DanS wrote:[color=blue]
> Vadim Igorev <jhRcME@SMkdCb.edu> wrote in news:hb7p2h$3hp$1@aioe.org:
>[color=green]
>> Gordon wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> I'm sorry, but if you are only now complaining about Vista performance
>>> after OVER TWO YEARS then no-one is going to listen to you...[/color]
>> I'm complaining now, because I feel deja-vu all over again - all those
>> shills online badmouthing Vista 1 and preaching Vista 7, as they were
>> badmouthing XP 2 years ago in 2007 and pushing me and my wife to
>> "upgrade" to Vista. What I'm trying to say is: "Fool me once, thank you
>> very much". Vista is actually usable now after all those service packs
>> (wifi on the laptop still drops regularly, though). Would I have my
>> current knowledge of life, I'd happily continued to use XP up to 2010 at
>> least (that is, until SP1 for Vista 7 is released)[/color]
>
> Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.[/color]

Sorry dan-o but it isn't. It is built on Vista's then new technology,
but it is different enough to be a new, separate OS from Microsoft.
No SP could ever change Vista into Windows 7, therefore Windows 7 is not
Vista SP3.

Vadim Igorev wrote:[color=blue]
> DanS wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.[/color]
>
> Exactly,...[/color]
....no, not "exactly"...Windows 7 is not Vista SP3.

so how come I cannot get it for free - as I got SP1 and SP2?

It's Windows 7...not Vista SP3.
[color=blue]
> Mr. Chair-thrower, please give me my service pack, I paid for it back in
> March 2007...[/color]

Maybe you should be complaining to the OEM(s) you bought your computers
from...like have then try and fix any problem(s) you're having.

Vadim Igorev wrote:[color=blue]
> Alias wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I bet installing Ubuntu wouldn't be a problem ...[/color]
>
> I do not know. Anyway, "Karen Jayne Panzke" prohibited me from doing so.[/color]

LOL!

Alias

Frank <fb@amk.cmo> wrote in news:4ad77490$1@news.x-privat.org:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.[/color]
>
> Sorry dan-o but it isn't.[/color]
[color=blue]
> It is built on Vista's then new technology,[/color]

Not any 'new' technology, mostly just changes on the security model, and
driver model. All the 'new' technology was sh*t-canned from Longhorn beta
to get Vista out the door in 2007, for instance, WinFS.
[color=blue]
> but it is different enough to be a new, separate OS from Microsoft.[/color]

Yep.......as different as Windows98 and Windows98 SE.

DanS wrote:[color=blue]
> Frank <fb@amk.cmo> wrote in news:4ad77490$1@news.x-privat.org:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.[/color]
>> Sorry dan-o but it isn't.[/color]
>[color=green]
>> It is built on Vista's then new technology,[/color]
>
> Not any 'new' technology,...[/color]

For one thing, off loading video functions to the VC is very much
different technology than XP uses.

mostly just changes on the security model, and[color=blue]
> driver model. All the 'new' technology was sh*t-canned from Longhorn beta
> to get Vista out the door in 2007, for instance, WinFS.[/color]

If you remember...(you do remember don't you dan-o?)...WinFS never
worked as it was supposed to...it was actually a step backwards.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> but it is different enough to be a new, separate OS from Microsoft.[/color]
>
> Yep.......as different as Windows98 and Windows98 SE.[/color]

So what will you call Vista SP3 when it comes out?

Frank <fb@amk.cmo> wrote in news:4ad78064$1@news.x-privat.org:
[color=blue]
> DanS wrote:[color=green]
>> Frank <fb@amk.cmo> wrote in news:4ad77490$1@news.x-privat.org:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>> Windows7 is, in reality, Vista SP3.
>>> Sorry dan-o but it isn't.[/color]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> It is built on Vista's then new technology,[/color]
>>
>> Not any 'new' technology,...[/color]
>
> For one thing, off loading video functions to the VC is very much
> different technology than XP uses.[/color]

It's a new implementation of existing technologies, but not necessarily
new.

"WDDM provides the functionality required to render the desktop and
applications using Desktop Window Manager, a compositing window manager
running on top of Direct3D 9.0".

([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Display_Driver_Model[/url])

So what MS did was to re-write the window manager and the driver model to
utilize DirectX instead of writing to the screen directly via CPU power.

That's what all the popular 3D games have been doing for a very long time,
already using DirectX, so it's not really new technology.