I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
bootable.

To get around this, and after pulling my hair out, I first closed the
WHOLE disk, then cloned the bootable partition from the old disk to the
new one (again, even though it was already there).

I then swapped the drives and the new 250GB disk worked. Ironically,
putting the old disk back in, I got the same error message that I got
the first time around with the new disk! Weird. After that, I took the
unallocated space from the new 250GB (what was left) and merged it with
the main c: partition taking advantage of all the space available from
the new drive.

So in summary, clone the whole disk incluiding all partitions from
source to new drive. THEN, clone the boot partition again to the new
drive, then swap them out.

Unfortunately, it appears that the old c: drive won't boot so you might
as well format it and use it for extra space.

I don't know why Microsoft Vista does this, but having cloned Win98,
XP, etc, I was not expecting to run into this problem. Somehow, almost
by accident, we managed to do it. Hopefully, it will work for you too!
PJP


--
jobypolansky
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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View this thread: [url]http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/919810.htm[/url]

[url]http://forums.techarena.in[/url]

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:05:46 +0530, jobypolansky wrote:
[color=blue]
> I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
> solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
> the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
> bootable.
>
> To get around this, and after pulling my hair out, I first closed the
> WHOLE disk, then cloned the bootable partition from the old disk to the
> new one (again, even though it was already there).
>
> I then swapped the drives and the new 250GB disk worked. Ironically,
> putting the old disk back in, I got the same error message that I got
> the first time around with the new disk! Weird. After that, I took the
> unallocated space from the new 250GB (what was left) and merged it with
> the main c: partition taking advantage of all the space available from
> the new drive.
>
> So in summary, clone the whole disk incluiding all partitions from
> source to new drive. THEN, clone the boot partition again to the new
> drive, then swap them out.
>
> Unfortunately, it appears that the old c: drive won't boot so you might
> as well format it and use it for extra space.
>
> I don't know why Microsoft Vista does this, but having cloned Win98,
> XP, etc, I was not expecting to run into this problem. Somehow, almost
> by accident, we managed to do it. Hopefully, it will work for you too!
> PJP[/color]

As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new disk not
bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a problem. If
you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes the old
one unbootable, for the same reason.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:15:53 -0500, whs wrote:
[color=blue]
> Gene E. Bloch;1097008 Wrote:[color=green]
>> On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:05:46 +0530, jobypolansky wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> > >
>>> > I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
>>> > solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
>>> > the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was
>>> not
>>> > bootable.
>>> >
>>> > To get around this, and after pulling my hair out, I first closed the
>>> > WHOLE disk, then cloned the bootable partition from the old disk to
>>> the
>>> > new one (again, even though it was already there).
>>> >
>>> > I then swapped the drives and the new 250GB disk worked. Ironically,
>>> > putting the old disk back in, I got the same error message that I got
>>> > the first time around with the new disk! Weird. After that, I took
>>> the
>>> > unallocated space from the new 250GB (what was left) and merged it
>>> with
>>> > the main c: partition taking advantage of all the space available
>>> from
>>> > the new drive.
>>> >
>>> > So in summary, clone the whole disk incluiding all partitions from
>>> > source to new drive. THEN, clone the boot partition again to the new
>>> > drive, then swap them out.
>>> >
>>> > Unfortunately, it appears that the old c: drive won't boot so you
>>> might
>>> > as well format it and use it for extra space.
>>> >
>>> > I don't know why Microsoft Vista does this, but having cloned Win98,
>>> > XP, etc, I was not expecting to run into this problem. Somehow,
>>> almost
>>> > by accident, we managed to do it. Hopefully, it will work for you
>>> too!
>>> > PJP > >[/color]
>>
>> As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new
>> disk not
>> bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a
>> problem. If
>> you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes
>> the old
>> one unbootable, for the same reason.
>>
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]
>
>
> This is all very interesting for me. I ran into exactly the same
> problem trying to clone Vista from my HDD to an OCZ SSD using Norton
> Ghost. There was always something wrong with the boot record. But I
> never tried to clone it twice (neat trick).
> Does anybody have any references that describes this problem (and
> solution) in more detail.[/color]

You might try looking into the PDF manuals for cloning programs, such as
Casper ([url]http://www.fssdev.com/shop/default.aspx#[/url]), and maybe partitioning
software, which, IIRC, faces the same conundrum.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"jobypolansky" <jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com> wrote in message...
news:jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com...[color=blue]
> I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
> solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
> the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
> bootable.[/color]
(SNIP)


"Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message ...[color=blue]
> As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new disk not
> bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a problem. If
> you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes the
> old
> one unbootable, for the same reason.
> --
> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]


"whs" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message...[color=blue]
> This is all very interesting for me. I ran into exactly the same
> problem trying to clone Vista from my HDD to an OCZ SSD using Norton
> Ghost. There was always something wrong with the boot record. But I
> never tried to clone it twice (neat trick).
> Does anybody have any references that describes this problem (and
> solution) in more detail.
> --
> whs[/color]


"Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message...[color=blue][color=green]
>> You might try looking into the PDF manuals for cloning programs, such
>> as Casper ('Online Store | Future Systems Solutions'
>> ([url]http://www.fssdev.com/shop/default.aspx#[/url])), and maybe partitioning
>> software, which, IIRC, faces the same conundrum.
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color][/color]

[color=blue]
> Gene E. Bloch;1097392 wrote:
> Thanks Gene. I will have a closer look.> --
> whs[/color]


jobypolansky, whs, & Gene...
I would strongly second Gene's suggestion to take a look at the Casper 5
disk-cloning program. We have been using that program for about the past two
years or so and have found it a superb program for backing up & restoring
one's system. While we have used the program primarily in a Windows XP
environment and have had limited personal experience with the Vista OS,
we're aware of many Vista users who have informed us that the program works
just as well with that OS as with the XP OS.

As I'm sure you know, like any disk-cloning program, the program is a
comprehensive backup program in that it creates what amounts to a precise
copy of one's day-to-day working HDD, i.e., the "source" disk. As such the
user has available to him or her a complete copy of one's system including
the OS, all programs & applications, all personal data - in short,
*everything* that's on the source HDD. So when the day comes when the system
requires restoration because of a failed HDD or a unbootable, dysfunctional
OS, the user has the wherewithal immediately at hand to restore his or her
system with little fuss or an inordinate expenditure of time.

It's difficult for me to imagine a better backup system for the great
majority of PC users than having a
precise copy of their day-to-day working HDD at hand. A copy where *all* the
data on their "source" HDD is instantly available. A copy that needs no
restoration or recovery process of any kind in order to access its data
instantly. A copy that is completely bootable & functional (should it be
another internally-connected HDD or an eSATA-connected external HDD) without
the need to perform any recovery/restore process.

We've worked with a wide variety of disk-cloning & disk-imaging programs
over the years and have found the Casper 5 program quite superior. The
Casper program is extremely simple to use even for an inexperienced user,
reasonably quick in operation, and quite effective. There's virtually no
learning curve in undertaking the disk-cloning process as one navigates
through the few easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on the
button on the screen which will trigger the disk-cloning process. After
undertaking one or two disk-cloning operations it should take the user no
more than 15 - 20 seconds or so to get to that point.

But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 5.0 disk cloning program
compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g.,
Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
following the creation of the original (first) disk clone. Employing what
Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create subsequent
disk clones of the source HDD usually at a *fraction* of the time it takes
to create a "full" disk clone. This results in a decided incentive for the
user to undertake frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing
that they can create "incremental" disk clones in a relatively short period
of time. Understand that this "incremental disk clone" is a *complete* clone
(copy) of the "source" HDD, *not* merely an incremental file.

Bear in mind that the recipient of the clone - the "destination" HDD
(internal or external) - would contain the *complete* contents of one's
internal HDD (presumably the boot drive). Since that destination drive would
be a precise copy of the source HDD, its contents would be immediately
accessible to the user and potentially bootable. Naturally its contents
could be cloned back to a internal HDD should a restoration of the system be
necessary. Again, what better backup system can one have? And again -
because the Casper disk-cloning operation takes a relatively short period of
time to complete its disk-cloning operations there's a strong incentive for
the user to more frequently keep their backups up-to-date than they might
otherwise do. This is an extroardinary advantage and should not be
minimized.

Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 5 program
in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather remarkable
ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD
(following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of the time it
generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as disk-imaging) programs to
complete the process. In my experience this is a strong incentive for the
user to back up their systems on a frequent basis - perhaps even once a day
or two or three times a week - knowing that the disk-cloning operation will
take only a few short minutes to complete the process. And at the end of
that process the user will have at hand a "perfect copy" of their day-to-day
working HDD. Again, what better backup system can one have?

The Casper 5.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups at
pre-determined times.

As Gene points out there's a trial version of the Casper 5 program available
at...
[url]http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/[/url] and although it's somewhat
crippled it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.

The downside to the Casper 5 program as compared with the Acronis and most
other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to $49.95
for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" (the program to create
the bootable CD containing the Casper program - needed to access the program
in the event of a failed HDD when the user is unable to access the installed
Casper program). This "Startup Disk" is really an essential piece of the
program; I can't imagine a Casper user not having this media. It's a pity
that this "Startup Disk" is an added-cost option; in our view it should be
provided as part of the overall program and included in the program's $49.95
cost. We have complained to the developer about this but alas that
additional cost for the "Startup Disk" is still present.

So the cost of the program is more expensive than the others. Be that as it
may, in our view it's still well worth the additional cost considering its
overall effectiveness and the fact that one will be using the program many,
many times over the weeks, months, and years ahead. We've introduced the
program to many users (including former ATI users) and I can't recall a
single person who regretted his/her purchase. AFAIK, the program is
available only through download from the developer.

One final comment...
Again, while I haven't had a great deal of experience with the Vista OS as
compared with the XP OS, however, from the little experience I've personally
had using Casper 5 with Vista and more importantly, the feedback I've gotten
from Vista users of Casper, I'm comfortable with recommending this program
with Vista.
Anna

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:eKkrSSGDKHA.5092@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> "jobypolansky" <jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com> wrote in message...
> news:jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com...[color=green]
>> I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
>> solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
>> the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
>> bootable.[/color]
> (SNIP)
>
>
> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message ...[color=green]
>> As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new disk
>> not
>> bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a problem.
>> If
>> you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes the
>> old
>> one unbootable, for the same reason.
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]
>
>
> "whs" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message...[color=green]
>> This is all very interesting for me. I ran into exactly the same
>> problem trying to clone Vista from my HDD to an OCZ SSD using Norton
>> Ghost. There was always something wrong with the boot record. But I
>> never tried to clone it twice (neat trick).
>> Does anybody have any references that describes this problem (and
>> solution) in more detail.
>> --
>> whs[/color]
>
>
> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> You might try looking into the PDF manuals for cloning programs, such
>>> as Casper ('Online Store | Future Systems Solutions'
>>> ([url]http://www.fssdev.com/shop/default.aspx#[/url])), and maybe partitioning
>>> software, which, IIRC, faces the same conundrum.
>>> --
>>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color][/color]
>
>[color=green]
>> Gene E. Bloch;1097392 wrote:
>> Thanks Gene. I will have a closer look.> --
>> whs[/color]
>
>
> jobypolansky, whs, & Gene...
> I would strongly second Gene's suggestion to take a look at the Casper 5
> disk-cloning program. We have been using that program for about the past
> two years or so and have found it a superb program for backing up &
> restoring one's system. While we have used the program primarily in a
> Windows XP environment and have had limited personal experience with the
> Vista OS, we're aware of many Vista users who have informed us that the
> program works just as well with that OS as with the XP OS.
>
> As I'm sure you know, like any disk-cloning program, the program is a
> comprehensive backup program in that it creates what amounts to a precise
> copy of one's day-to-day working HDD, i.e., the "source" disk. As such the
> user has available to him or her a complete copy of one's system including
> the OS, all programs & applications, all personal data - in short,
> *everything* that's on the source HDD. So when the day comes when the
> system requires restoration because of a failed HDD or a unbootable,
> dysfunctional OS, the user has the wherewithal immediately at hand to
> restore his or her system with little fuss or an inordinate expenditure of
> time.
>
> It's difficult for me to imagine a better backup system for the great
> majority of PC users than having a
> precise copy of their day-to-day working HDD at hand. A copy where *all*
> the data on their "source" HDD is instantly available. A copy that needs
> no restoration or recovery process of any kind in order to access its data
> instantly. A copy that is completely bootable & functional (should it be
> another internally-connected HDD or an eSATA-connected external HDD)
> without the need to perform any recovery/restore process.
>
> We've worked with a wide variety of disk-cloning & disk-imaging programs
> over the years and have found the Casper 5 program quite superior. The
> Casper program is extremely simple to use even for an inexperienced user,
> reasonably quick in operation, and quite effective. There's virtually no
> learning curve in undertaking the disk-cloning process as one navigates
> through the few easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on the
> button on the screen which will trigger the disk-cloning process. After
> undertaking one or two disk-cloning operations it should take the user no
> more than 15 - 20 seconds or so to get to that point.
>
> But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 5.0 disk cloning program
> compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g.,
> Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
> following the creation of the original (first) disk clone. Employing what
> Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create subsequent
> disk clones of the source HDD usually at a *fraction* of the time it takes
> to create a "full" disk clone. This results in a decided incentive for the
> user to undertake frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing
> that they can create "incremental" disk clones in a relatively short
> period of time. Understand that this "incremental disk clone" is a
> *complete* clone (copy) of the "source" HDD, *not* merely an incremental
> file.
>
> Bear in mind that the recipient of the clone - the "destination" HDD
> (internal or external) - would contain the *complete* contents of one's
> internal HDD (presumably the boot drive). Since that destination drive
> would be a precise copy of the source HDD, its contents would be
> immediately
> accessible to the user and potentially bootable. Naturally its contents
> could be cloned back to a internal HDD should a restoration of the system
> be necessary. Again, what better backup system can one have? And again -
> because the Casper disk-cloning operation takes a relatively short period
> of
> time to complete its disk-cloning operations there's a strong incentive
> for the user to more frequently keep their backups up-to-date than they
> might otherwise do. This is an extroardinary advantage and should not be
> minimized.
>
> Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 5 program
> in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather remarkable
> ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD
> (following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of the time it
> generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as disk-imaging) programs
> to complete the process. In my experience this is a strong incentive for
> the user to back up their systems on a frequent basis - perhaps even once
> a day or two or three times a week - knowing that the disk-cloning
> operation will take only a few short minutes to complete the process. And
> at the end of that process the user will have at hand a "perfect copy" of
> their day-to-day working HDD. Again, what better backup system can one
> have?
>
> The Casper 5.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
> process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
> that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups
> at pre-determined times.
>
> As Gene points out there's a trial version of the Casper 5 program
> available at...
> [url]http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/[/url] and although it's somewhat
> crippled it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.
>
> The downside to the Casper 5 program as compared with the Acronis and
> most other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to
> $49.95 for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" (the program
> to create the bootable CD containing the Casper program - needed to access
> the program in the event of a failed HDD when the user is unable to access
> the installed
> Casper program). This "Startup Disk" is really an essential piece of the
> program; I can't imagine a Casper user not having this media. It's a pity
> that this "Startup Disk" is an added-cost option; in our view it should be
> provided as part of the overall program and included in the program's
> $49.95
> cost. We have complained to the developer about this but alas that
> additional cost for the "Startup Disk" is still present.
>
> So the cost of the program is more expensive than the others. Be that as
> it may, in our view it's still well worth the additional cost considering
> its overall effectiveness and the fact that one will be using the program
> many, many times over the weeks, months, and years ahead. We've introduced
> the
> program to many users (including former ATI users) and I can't recall a
> single person who regretted his/her purchase. AFAIK, the program is
> available only through download from the developer.
>
> One final comment...
> Again, while I haven't had a great deal of experience with the Vista OS as
> compared with the XP OS, however, from the little experience I've
> personally had using Casper 5 with Vista and more importantly, the
> feedback I've gotten from Vista users of Casper, I'm comfortable with
> recommending this program with Vista.
> Anna
>[/color]
been using Casper for quite a while and it does a great job on my Winn2000
and WinXP boxes. However it didn't play well with my Vista or Win 7
machines. Problems with Shadow Copy errors never gave me a clean accurtate
cloned disc. So I use DiscCopy 2.3 for Vista and Win7 and get good results
although it takes longer than if I were using Casper. BTW DiscCopy 2.3 is
free,

[color=blue][color=green]
>> "jobypolansky" <jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com> wrote in message...
>> news:jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com...[color=darkred]
>>> I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
>>> solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
>>> the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
>>> bootable.[/color]
>> (SNIP)[/color][/color]

[color=blue][color=green]
>> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message ...[color=darkred]
>>> As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new disk
>>> not
>>> bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a problem.
>>> If
>>> you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes the
>>> old
>>> one unbootable, for the same reason.
>>> --
>>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color][/color][/color]

[color=blue][color=green]
>> "whs" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message...[color=darkred]
>>> This is all very interesting for me. I ran into exactly the same
>>> problem trying to clone Vista from my HDD to an OCZ SSD using Norton
>>> Ghost. There was always something wrong with the boot record. But I
>>> never tried to clone it twice (neat trick).
>>> Does anybody have any references that describes this problem (and
>>> solution) in more detail.
>>> --
>>> whs[/color][/color][/color]

[color=blue][color=green]
>> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message...[color=darkred]
>>>> You might try looking into the PDF manuals for cloning programs, such
>>>> as Casper ('Online Store | Future Systems Solutions'
>>>> ([url]http://www.fssdev.com/shop/default.aspx#[/url])), and maybe partitioning
>>>> software, which, IIRC, faces the same conundrum.
>>>> --
>>>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color][/color][/color]

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Gene E. Bloch;1097392 wrote:
>>> Thanks Gene. I will have a closer look.> --
>>> whs[/color][/color][/color]

[color=blue]
> "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
> news:eKkrSSGDKHA.5092@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> jobypolansky, whs, & Gene...
>> I would strongly second Gene's suggestion to take a look at the Casper 5
>> disk-cloning program. We have been using that program for about the past
>> two years or so and have found it a superb program for backing up &
>> restoring one's system. While we have used the program primarily in a
>> Windows XP environment and have had limited personal experience with the
>> Vista OS, we're aware of many Vista users who have informed us that the
>> program works just as well with that OS as with the XP OS.
>>
>> As I'm sure you know, like any disk-cloning program, the program is a
>> comprehensive backup program in that it creates what amounts to a precise
>> copy of one's day-to-day working HDD, i.e., the "source" disk. As such
>> the user has available to him or her a complete copy of one's system
>> including the OS, all programs & applications, all personal data - in
>> short, *everything* that's on the source HDD. So when the day comes when
>> the system requires restoration because of a failed HDD or a unbootable,
>> dysfunctional OS, the user has the wherewithal immediately at hand to
>> restore his or her system with little fuss or an inordinate expenditure
>> of time.
>>
>> It's difficult for me to imagine a better backup system for the great
>> majority of PC users than having a
>> precise copy of their day-to-day working HDD at hand. A copy where *all*
>> the data on their "source" HDD is instantly available. A copy that needs
>> no restoration or recovery process of any kind in order to access its
>> data instantly. A copy that is completely bootable & functional (should
>> it be another internally-connected HDD or an eSATA-connected external
>> HDD) without the need to perform any recovery/restore process.
>>
>> We've worked with a wide variety of disk-cloning & disk-imaging programs
>> over the years and have found the Casper 5 program quite superior. The
>> Casper program is extremely simple to use even for an inexperienced user,
>> reasonably quick in operation, and quite effective. There's virtually no
>> learning curve in undertaking the disk-cloning process as one navigates
>> through the few easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on
>> the button on the screen which will trigger the disk-cloning process.
>> After undertaking one or two disk-cloning operations it should take the
>> user no more than 15 - 20 seconds or so to get to that point.
>>
>> But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 5.0 disk cloning
>> program compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar
>> with, e.g., Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental*
>> disk clones following the creation of the original (first) disk clone.
>> Employing what
>> Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create
>> subsequent disk clones of the source HDD usually at a *fraction* of the
>> time it takes to create a "full" disk clone. This results in a decided
>> incentive for the user to undertake frequent complete backups of his or
>> her system knowing that they can create "incremental" disk clones in a
>> relatively short period of time. Understand that this "incremental disk
>> clone" is a *complete* clone (copy) of the "source" HDD, *not* merely an
>> incremental file.
>>
>> Bear in mind that the recipient of the clone - the "destination" HDD
>> (internal or external) - would contain the *complete* contents of one's
>> internal HDD (presumably the boot drive). Since that destination drive
>> would be a precise copy of the source HDD, its contents would be
>> immediately
>> accessible to the user and potentially bootable. Naturally its contents
>> could be cloned back to a internal HDD should a restoration of the system
>> be necessary. Again, what better backup system can one have? And again -
>> because the Casper disk-cloning operation takes a relatively short period
>> of
>> time to complete its disk-cloning operations there's a strong incentive
>> for the user to more frequently keep their backups up-to-date than they
>> might otherwise do. This is an extroardinary advantage and should not be
>> minimized.
>>
>> Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 5
>> program in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather
>> remarkable ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to
>> another HDD (following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of
>> the time it generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as
>> disk-imaging) programs to complete the process. In my experience this is
>> a strong incentive for the user to back up their systems on a frequent
>> basis - perhaps even once a day or two or three times a week - knowing
>> that the disk-cloning operation will take only a few short minutes to
>> complete the process. And at the end of that process the user will have
>> at hand a "perfect copy" of their day-to-day working HDD. Again, what
>> better backup system can one have?
>>
>> The Casper 5.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
>> process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
>> that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups
>> at pre-determined times.
>>
>> As Gene points out there's a trial version of the Casper 5 program
>> available at...
>> [url]http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/[/url] and although it's somewhat
>> crippled it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.
>>
>> The downside to the Casper 5 program as compared with the Acronis and
>> most other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes
>> to $49.95 for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" (the
>> program to create the bootable CD containing the Casper program - needed
>> to access the program in the event of a failed HDD when the user is
>> unable to access the installed
>> Casper program). This "Startup Disk" is really an essential piece of the
>> program; I can't imagine a Casper user not having this media. It's a pity
>> that this "Startup Disk" is an added-cost option; in our view it should
>> be provided as part of the overall program and included in the program's
>> $49.95
>> cost. We have complained to the developer about this but alas that
>> additional cost for the "Startup Disk" is still present.
>>
>> So the cost of the program is more expensive than the others. Be that as
>> it may, in our view it's still well worth the additional cost
>> considering its overall effectiveness and the fact that one will be using
>> the program many, many times over the weeks, months, and years ahead.
>> We've introduced the
>> program to many users (including former ATI users) and I can't recall a
>> single person who regretted his/her purchase. AFAIK, the program is
>> available only through download from the developer.
>>
>> One final comment...
>> Again, while I haven't had a great deal of experience with the Vista OS
>> as compared with the XP OS, however, from the little experience I've
>> personally had using Casper 5 with Vista and more importantly, the
>> feedback I've gotten from Vista users of Casper, I'm comfortable with
>> recommending this program with Vista.
>> Anna[/color][/color]


"olfart" <olfart65@excite.com> wrote in message
news:7cu5lfF28chhjU1@mid.individual.net...[color=blue]
> been using Casper for quite a while and it does a great job on my Winn2000
> and WinXP boxes. However it didn't play well with my Vista or Win 7
> machines. Problems with Shadow Copy errors never gave me a clean accurtate
> cloned disc. So I use DiscCopy 2.3 for Vista and Win7 and get good results
> although it takes longer than if I were using Casper. BTW DiscCopy 2.3 is
> free,[/color]


olfart:
As I indicated in my post above I've had limited experience using Casper 5
with the Vista OS, but the few dozen times I've used that disk-cloning
program with various machines that had Vista installed the program worked
flawlessly; just about the same as it has in an XP OS environment. And from
the numerous reports I've gotten from friends & former customers who
routinely use Casper 5 in a Vista OS environment they've informed me their
experience parallels mine.

Why Casper 5 didn't "play well" in your situation is obviously impossible
for me to tell.

As to the DiscCopy program you recommend, while I'm not familiar with that
program by all means a user seeking a comprehensive backup program that one
will be employing routinely should take a look at it as well as other
similar programs available as freeware or demo versions.
Anna

Anna seems to be ascribing to me comments I didn't make in this thread. I
will snip some unrelated stuff and comment inline...And please, if you read
nothing else, at least see my remarks at the bottom, only five short
paragraphs.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:42:14 -0400, Anna wrote:
[color=blue]
> "jobypolansky" <jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com> wrote in message...
> news:jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com...[color=green]
>> I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
>> solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
>> the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
>> bootable.[/color]
> (SNIP)
>
>
> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message ...[color=green]
>> As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new disk not
>> bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a problem. If
>> you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes the
>> old
>> one unbootable, for the same reason.
>> --
>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]
>
>
> "whs" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message...[color=green]
>> This is all very interesting for me. I ran into exactly the same
>> problem trying to clone Vista from my HDD to an OCZ SSD using Norton
>> Ghost. There was always something wrong with the boot record. But I
>> never tried to clone it twice (neat trick).
>> Does anybody have any references that describes this problem (and
>> solution) in more detail.
>> --
>> whs[/color]
>
>
> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> You might try looking into the PDF manuals for cloning programs, such
>>> as Casper ('Online Store | Future Systems Solutions'
>>> ([url]http://www.fssdev.com/shop/default.aspx#[/url])), and maybe partitioning
>>> software, which, IIRC, faces the same conundrum.
>>> --
>>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color][/color]
>
>[color=green]
>> Gene E. Bloch;1097392 wrote:
>> Thanks Gene. I will have a closer look.> --
>> whs[/color]
>
>
> jobypolansky, whs, & Gene...
> I would strongly second Gene's suggestion to take a look at the Casper 5
> disk-cloning program.[/color]

My suggestion was *only* to read the PDF manuals for some information about
the booting problem the OP had.


<SNIP part of a long and glowing review of Casper>
[color=blue]
> A copy that is completely bootable & functional (should it be
> another internally-connected HDD or an eSATA-connected external HDD) without
> the need to perform any recovery/restore process.[/color]

True, except that I had to restore the boot sector of a copy I made to make
it bootable.

<SNIP>
[color=blue]
> But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 5.0 disk cloning program
> compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g.,
> Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
> following the creation of the original (first) disk clone.[/color]

In fact, Acronis and Macrium can both do incremental (& differential)
backups, with the added property that you can see earlier versions of files
as well as the current version. This is not exactly an unusual property of
backup software.

However, these are not clones but proprietary images, requiring the
creating program to view and restore them. BTW, in my experience, Macrium's
images are read-only, so Vista can not take ownership of them. At least I
couldn't figure out how to read certain directories without logging on as
root (UNIX slang for the real administrator). Acronis also has permission
problems, although I think that if I mount its image read/write it would be
OK - but I haven't tested that property.

I used a test version of Shadow Protect Desktop, similar to the above two,
which did much better at permissions that they do. But it's expensive and
you need to buy ten copies before you get a license discount :-(

<SNIP>
[color=blue]
> Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 5 program
> in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather remarkable
> ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD
> (following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of the time it
> generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as disk-imaging) programs to
> complete the process.[/color]

Not in my experience. I found its speed comparable to the others, or even
slower.
[color=blue]
> The Casper 5.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
> process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
> that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups at
> pre-determined times.[/color]

Hardly unique to Casper.
[color=blue]
> As Gene points out there's a trial version of the Casper 5 program available
> at...[/color]

Not in this thread.
[color=blue]
> [url]http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/[/url] and although it's somewhat
> crippled it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.[/color]

It won't install or run on Vista 64. IMO, that's not *somewhat* crippled,
that's unsatisfactory. It expires after a time limit, but that's to be
expected.
[color=blue]
> The downside to the Casper 5 program as compared with the Acronis and most
> other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to $49.95
> for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" ...[/color]

They have a "Casper 5.0 Value Pack" for $70 which includes three licenses
and the Startup Disk.

In addition, that startup disk would not run successfully on my laptop, a
cheap HP running Vista Home Premium x64. Tech support was (as always) very
quick to reply to my request for assistance, but they didn't provide enough
help for me to solve the problem. It had to do with AHCI drivers (disk
access). The suggested BIOS setting does not exist on that computer, and I
could not determine where to get useful drivers.

<SNIP>[color=blue]
> Anna[/color]

READ THIS:

FIRST: I thoroughly resent your ascribing to me things that I simply *did
not say* in this thread.

I even went to Google to find the beginning (Feb 23 2008, fer gosh' sake!)
and the earlier parts of this thread, to verify for myself that indeed I
said no such things here.

BTW, before jobypolansky's post of July 23 2009, there were no posts in the
thread after Feb 24 2008, i.e., before I was even reading this group.

SECOND: I find Casper is OK, mostly because I like the fact that it creates
bootable (or easily made bootable) clones requiring no special software. I
like the others because they produce differential backups in which I can
look at earlier versions of some files, but I can't be sure that I can
restore those images to the original drive or its replacement, which is, of
course, a no-brainer with Casper.

But I am *not* giving my unqualified approval, or even enthusiastic
approval, for Casper. Or for the others, for that matter.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message
news:fno9fkz8p8ul.hrpru1m86sm9$.dlg@40tude.net...[color=blue]
> Anna seems to be ascribing to me comments I didn't make in this thread. I
> will snip some unrelated stuff and comment inline...And please, if you
> read
> nothing else, at least see my remarks at the bottom, only five short
> paragraphs.
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:42:14 -0400, Anna wrote:
>[color=green]
>> "jobypolansky" <jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com> wrote in message...
>> news:jobypolansky.3vs67b@DoNotSpam.com...[color=darkred]
>>> I assisted a friend in cloning a Vista HDD from a 80GB disk to a 250
>>> solid state disk. I used Spotmau Clone Genius but while the clone did
>>> the job correctly, swapping out the hard drives - the new drive was not
>>> bootable.[/color]
>> (SNIP)
>>
>>
>> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message ...[color=darkred]
>>> As I understand it, lots of cloning programs tend to make the new disk
>>> not
>>> bootable, since two bootable drives in one computer could be a problem.
>>> If
>>> you tell the program to make the new drive bootable, it often makes the
>>> old
>>> one unbootable, for the same reason.
>>> --
>>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]
>>
>>
>> "whs" <guest@unknown-email.com> wrote in message...[color=darkred]
>>> This is all very interesting for me. I ran into exactly the same
>>> problem trying to clone Vista from my HDD to an OCZ SSD using Norton
>>> Ghost. There was always something wrong with the boot record. But I
>>> never tried to clone it twice (neat trick).
>>> Does anybody have any references that describes this problem (and
>>> solution) in more detail.
>>> --
>>> whs[/color]
>>
>>
>> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message...[color=darkred]
>>>> You might try looking into the PDF manuals for cloning programs, such
>>>> as Casper ('Online Store | Future Systems Solutions'
>>>> ([url]http://www.fssdev.com/shop/default.aspx#[/url])), and maybe partitioning
>>>> software, which, IIRC, faces the same conundrum.
>>>> --
>>>> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Gene E. Bloch;1097392 wrote:
>>> Thanks Gene. I will have a closer look.> --
>>> whs[/color]
>>
>>
>> jobypolansky, whs, & Gene...
>> I would strongly second Gene's suggestion to take a look at the Casper 5
>> disk-cloning program.[/color]
>
> My suggestion was *only* to read the PDF manuals for some information
> about
> the booting problem the OP had.
>
>
> <SNIP part of a long and glowing review of Casper>
>[color=green]
>> A copy that is completely bootable & functional (should it be
>> another internally-connected HDD or an eSATA-connected external HDD)
>> without
>> the need to perform any recovery/restore process.[/color]
>
> True, except that I had to restore the boot sector of a copy I made to
> make
> it bootable.
>
> <SNIP>
>[color=green]
>> But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 5.0 disk cloning
>> program
>> compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g.,
>> Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
>> following the creation of the original (first) disk clone.[/color]
>
> In fact, Acronis and Macrium can both do incremental (& differential)
> backups, with the added property that you can see earlier versions of
> files
> as well as the current version. This is not exactly an unusual property of
> backup software.
>
> However, these are not clones but proprietary images, requiring the
> creating program to view and restore them. BTW, in my experience,
> Macrium's
> images are read-only, so Vista can not take ownership of them. At least I
> couldn't figure out how to read certain directories without logging on as
> root (UNIX slang for the real administrator). Acronis also has permission
> problems, although I think that if I mount its image read/write it would
> be
> OK - but I haven't tested that property.
>
> I used a test version of Shadow Protect Desktop, similar to the above two,
> which did much better at permissions that they do. But it's expensive and
> you need to buy ten copies before you get a license discount :-(
>
> <SNIP>
>[color=green]
>> Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 5
>> program
>> in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather remarkable
>> ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD
>> (following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of the time it
>> generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as disk-imaging) programs
>> to
>> complete the process.[/color]
>
> Not in my experience. I found its speed comparable to the others, or even
> slower.
>[color=green]
>> The Casper 5.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
>> process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
>> that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups
>> at
>> pre-determined times.[/color]
>
> Hardly unique to Casper.
>[color=green]
>> As Gene points out there's a trial version of the Casper 5 program
>> available
>> at...[/color]
>
> Not in this thread.
>[color=green]
>> [url]http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/[/url] and although it's somewhat
>> crippled it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.[/color]
>
> It won't install or run on Vista 64. IMO, that's not *somewhat* crippled,
> that's unsatisfactory. It expires after a time limit, but that's to be
> expected.
>[color=green]
>> The downside to the Casper 5 program as compared with the Acronis and
>> most
>> other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to
>> $49.95
>> for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" ...[/color]
>
> They have a "Casper 5.0 Value Pack" for $70 which includes three licenses
> and the Startup Disk.
>
> In addition, that startup disk would not run successfully on my laptop, a
> cheap HP running Vista Home Premium x64. Tech support was (as always) very
> quick to reply to my request for assistance, but they didn't provide
> enough
> help for me to solve the problem. It had to do with AHCI drivers (disk
> access). The suggested BIOS setting does not exist on that computer, and I
> could not determine where to get useful drivers.
>
> <SNIP>[color=green]
>> Anna[/color]
>
> READ THIS:
>
> FIRST: I thoroughly resent your ascribing to me things that I simply *did
> not say* in this thread.
>
> I even went to Google to find the beginning (Feb 23 2008, fer gosh' sake!)
> and the earlier parts of this thread, to verify for myself that indeed I
> said no such things here.
>
> BTW, before jobypolansky's post of July 23 2009, there were no posts in
> the
> thread after Feb 24 2008, i.e., before I was even reading this group.
>
> SECOND: I find Casper is OK, mostly because I like the fact that it
> creates
> bootable (or easily made bootable) clones requiring no special software. I
> like the others because they produce differential backups in which I can
> look at earlier versions of some files, but I can't be sure that I can
> restore those images to the original drive or its replacement, which is,
> of
> course, a no-brainer with Casper.
>
> But I am *not* giving my unqualified approval, or even enthusiastic
> approval, for Casper. Or for the others, for that matter.
>
> --
> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]


Gene:
Please accept my apology for quoting you in error with regard to comments
that I erroneously ascribed to you in this thread. It was inadvertent I
assure you.

I now fully understand you were not endorsing in any way, shape, or form the
Casper 5 program.
Anna

"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
news:uzoT$WMDKHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Gene:
> Please accept my apology for quoting you in error with regard to comments
> that I erroneously ascribed to you in this thread. It was inadvertent I
> assure you.
>
> I now fully understand you were not endorsing in any way, shape, or form
> the Casper 5 program.
> Anna[/color]

Next thing you should learn is how to trim a post!
--

Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

"Mike" <w******.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
>news:uzoT$WMDKHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Gene:
>> Please accept my apology for quoting you in error with regard to comments
>> that I erroneously ascribed to you in this thread. It was inadvertent I
>> assure you.
>>
>> I now fully understand you were not endorsing in any way, shape, or form
>> the Casper 5 program.
>> Anna[/color]
>
>Next thing you should learn is how to trim a post![/color]

You mean how to trim a quote.

First she has to learn to trim her OWN posts. The woman doesn't
understand the meaning of brevity.

Difficult , but doable (if that is a word). Check out this link:
[url]http://tinyurl.com/nvfgmq[/url]


--
jobypolansky
------------------------------------------------------------------------
jobypolansky's Profile: [url]http://forums.techarena.in/members/117533.htm[/url]
View this thread: [url]http://forums.techarena.in/vista-help/919810.htm[/url]

[url]http://forums.techarena.in[/url]

On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:17:52 -0400, Anna wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message
> news:fno9fkz8p8ul.hrpru1m86sm9$.dlg@40tude.net...[color=green]
>> Anna seems to be ascribing to me comments I didn't make in this thread...[/color][/color]

<SNIP>
[color=blue][color=green]
>> On Fri, 24 Jul 2009 09:42:14 -0400, Anna wrote:[/color][/color]
<SNIP>
[color=blue]
> Gene:
> Please accept my apology for quoting you in error with regard to comments
> that I erroneously ascribed to you in this thread. It was inadvertent I
> assure you.
>
> I now fully understand you were not endorsing in any way, shape, or form the
> Casper 5 program.
> Anna[/color]

Thank you.

One more remark for clarity: I don't mean in any way to imply that I think
it's a bad program, only that I don't especially endorse it over others.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:01:21 +0530, jobypolansky wrote:
[color=blue]
> Difficult , but doable (if that is a word). Check out this link:
> [url]http://tinyurl.com/nvfgmq[/url][/color]

This is no more than a link to a copy of this thread. I simply can not
guess why you posted this link...

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message
news:1sw3krcbsz0qj$.1tpxbmciq2b91$.dlg@40tude.net...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 20:01:21 +0530, jobypolansky wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Difficult , but doable (if that is a word). Check out this link:
>> [url]http://tinyurl.com/nvfgmq[/url][/color]
>
> This is no more than a link to a copy of this thread. I simply can not
> guess why you posted this link...[/color]

For anyone who wasn't drunk or insane enough to get through it the first
time around.
--

Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

Take no notice of Gene Anna, he is really a pussycat. He is my partner, in
more ways than one if you know what I mean :-)

--

Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.


"Mike" <w******.com> wrote in message
news:BNSdnZ_oL8VV6vfXnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@giganews.com...[color=blue]
> "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
> news:uzoT$WMDKHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Gene:
>> Please accept my apology for quoting you in error with regard to comments
>> that I erroneously ascribed to you in this thread. It was inadvertent I
>> assure you.
>>
>> I now fully understand you were not endorsing in any way, shape, or form
>> the Casper 5 program.
>> Anna[/color]
>
> Next thing you should learn is how to trim a post!
> --
>
> Don't pick a fight with an old man.
> If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
>
>[/color]