On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in this
respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
machine.
Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively new
machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?

aa wrote:
[color=blue]
> On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in this
> respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> machine.
> Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively
> new
> machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?[/color]

Can't answer such a generalized question except to say that some computer
makes/models that come with Vista will have drivers for XP and some won't.
You have to look at each specific machine.

General information about replacing Vista with XP:

A. On an OEM (HP, Sony, etc.) computer:

1. Go to the OEM's website and look for XP drivers for your specific model
computer. If there are no XP drivers, then you can't install XP. End of
story. If there are drivers, download them and store on a CD-R or USB
thumbdrive; you'll need them after you install XP.

2. Check with the OEM - either from their tech support website or by calling
them - to see if you will void your warranty if you do this. If you will
void the warranty, you make the decision.

3. If the OEM does support XP on the machine, call them and see if you can
have downgrade rights and have them send you an XP restore disk. This will
be far the easiest and best way of getting XP on the machine.

4. If XP is supported on the machine but the OEM doesn't have an XP restore
disk for you, understand that you'll need to purchase a retail copy of XP
from your favorite online or brick/mortar store.

5. Also understand that you will need to do a clean install of XP so if you
have any data you want, back it up first.

6. If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP on
that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
running XP instead.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
[url]http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ[/url]

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:OmmWOhk%23JHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in this
> respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> machine.
> Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively
> new
> machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?
>
>[/color]


If HP doesn't think that drivers exist, and they are the people responsible
for creating said drivers, you are going to have to stay with Vista.

--

Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]

thank you Mike,
Generally u answeres my question - I shall expect problems with the drivers,
so I have to go dual boot first.

Of course, I visited hp.com and even talked to HP Support before troubling
people here. The result is inconclusive. They have SOME XP drivers, but they
are not sure they have them all.

As to invalidating warranty - I see no point in this warranty if under
warranty they cannot replace VISTA for XP/W2K for I cannot use VISTA anyway.
I an keeping it almost a year now and every time I try to do some familiar
job on it, I have to spend so much time on learning and tuning, that I give
up, close it down and go back to my old destop with w2k. Last time I had
problems with saving a text file I created onto a flash-stick - it was
saying that I do not have priveleges for that so I had to email it to myself
and receive the mail on another computer. I guess that there should have to
open some tab, tick some box but I have no time to investigate what to open
and what to tick. Then it turned out that MS ignored backward compatibility
principle and text and spread**** files created on Vista would not get
opened on previous MS OSes!

as to "If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP on
that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
running XP instead", first, the shop refused to take it back saying that I
knew that I was purchasing Vista. I indeed knew that, but I did not know
that I would need go for VISTA training cources to run it and also to throw
away half of my applications for they would noit install on VISTA. Microsoft
never mentioned this in their VISTA promotions
As to purchase one running XP instead - when and wherre last time you saw
a computer on sale running anything other then VISTA? I contacted HP, DELL
and Toshiba and they all advised me that Miscrosoft refused them licences
for XP or W2K forcing them to sell only VISTA.

So the next question is from the legal field - does this go against the
consumer rights? I am 55, I use comp for work and I have neither time or
desire nor ability to learn this new OS, which I am sure will not live long.
Is it legal for MS forcing me to buy it by refusing the familiar OSes?
If the community of users sue MS for the time loost on all these
artificially created hurdles, the compensation might be quite considerable
so tha MS starts noticing theirs customers?


"Malke" <malke@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:#ysqQlk#JHA.4692@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> aa wrote:
>[color=green]
> > On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> > disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in[/color][/color]
this[color=blue][color=green]
> > respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> > machine.
> > Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively
> > new
> > machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?[/color]
>
> Can't answer such a generalized question except to say that some computer
> makes/models that come with Vista will have drivers for XP and some won't.
> You have to look at each specific machine.
>
> General information about replacing Vista with XP:
>
> A. On an OEM (HP, Sony, etc.) computer:
>
> 1. Go to the OEM's website and look for XP drivers for your specific model
> computer. If there are no XP drivers, then you can't install XP. End of
> story. If there are drivers, download them and store on a CD-R or USB
> thumbdrive; you'll need them after you install XP.
>
> 2. Check with the OEM - either from their tech support website or by[/color]
calling[color=blue]
> them - to see if you will void your warranty if you do this. If you will
> void the warranty, you make the decision.
>
> 3. If the OEM does support XP on the machine, call them and see if you can
> have downgrade rights and have them send you an XP restore disk. This will
> be far the easiest and best way of getting XP on the machine.
>
> 4. If XP is supported on the machine but the OEM doesn't have an XP[/color]
restore[color=blue]
> disk for you, understand that you'll need to purchase a retail copy of XP
> from your favorite online or brick/mortar store.
>
> 5. Also understand that you will need to do a clean install of XP so if[/color]
you[color=blue]
> have any data you want, back it up first.
>
> 6. If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP on
> that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
> running XP instead.
>
> Malke
> --
> MS-MVP
> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
> [url]http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ[/url]
>
>[/color]

aa wrote:

Comments inline
[color=blue]
> thank you Mike,[/color]

It's Malke, actually. I'm a woman tech.
[color=blue]
> Generally u answeres my question - I shall expect problems with the
> drivers, so I have to go dual boot first.[/color]

You will still have problems if you dual boot because you will still need
drivers for that hardware! You should consider using virtualization
instead. The hardware is all virtualized and so drivers aren't an issue.
You install the virtualization software and then create a virtual machine
("vm") and install the operating system of your choice (XP in your case).
Virtualization is a fine solution if you must run older business software.
Gamers needing excellent 3D support will not be happy. I use (and prefer)
VMware Workstation, but it isn't free. Microsoft Virtual PC and Sun's
VirtualBox are free. You must own a legal retail copy of XP to install in
the vm.
[color=blue]
> Of course, I visited hp.com and even talked to HP Support before troubling
> people here. The result is inconclusive. They have SOME XP drivers, but
> they are not sure they have them all.[/color]

Then that laptop isn't a good candidate for XP. HP's hardware is proprietary
and they are the ones who will have the drivers for it. You could always
try installing XP and see what happens. If it doesn't work, restore your
computer to factory condition via the method HP provides.

(Snip rantlet - don't really care)
[color=blue]
> as to "If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP
> on that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
> running XP instead", first, the shop refused to take it back saying that I
> knew that I was purchasing Vista. I indeed knew that, but I did not know
> that I would need go for VISTA training cources to run it and also to
> throw away half of my applications for they would noit install on VISTA.
> Microsoft never mentioned this in their VISTA promotions
> As to purchase one running XP instead - when and wherre last time you
> saw a computer on sale running anything other then VISTA? I contacted HP,
> DELL and Toshiba and they all advised me that Miscrosoft refused them
> licences for XP or W2K forcing them to sell only VISTA.[/color]

Almost all my clients have ordered computers running XP from Dell. We had a
new one come in just last week. It is true that only certain models are
supported but you got incorrect information from whoever you spoke to at
Dell. I can't speak for HP since I don't deal with their business division,
preferring Dell. At this point with Windows 7 coming out soon, the OEMs may
indeed no longer offer XP. However, you can carefully choose a model that
does have drivers. The onus to purchase the correct product is on the buyer
- you.

(Snip request for legal advice - you cannot get that here. If you want legal
advice, you will need to contact (and pay) a local attorney.

Malke
--
MS-MVP
Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
[url]http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ[/url]

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:OmmWOhk%23JHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in this
> respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> machine.
> Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively
> new
> machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?
>
>[/color]

Hi
Look here

[url]http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProdSearch.jsp?lang=en&cc=uk&taskId=135&prod=HP[/url]


chas2209

Thank you, Malke

The concept of VM frightens me off as another layer of software eating
computer resources. And I have to learn it too. Yet learning a general
concept like virtualisation is much more useful then wasting time on
proprietary VISTA pecularities.

I spoke only to HP, and contacted the others by email or by filling in a
form at their websites. No XP from either. That was last November. Perhaps
it changed recently.

I do not seek legal advise, I am just trying to stipp up users's rebellion
agains MS who twists our asms more and more tightly using their practically
monopoly position on the Market.

As in the US people win the most absurd cases against big boys, case agains
MS seems to be well justified. MS made huge contribution to the progress in
their early days but now they are staying in the way

I made my Vista behave like XP, whats the problem?

It did take me a week+ though, and a stamina to wiothstand all these 'you're
a moron" responses from several idfiots here in respons eot my complains
about Vista.

But in the end it works. My Vista is I SWEAR faster than XP now, stable, I
fell iam still in XP, a few dialog boxes changed, so what?

All colors, appearances, behaviors, etc are OK, well I replaced Vista search
with MythicSoft, etc but no big deal, $40.
Wrong move, pal

hink about WIndows7, not WIndowsXP.

> If HP doesn't think that drivers exist, and they are the people
responsible[color=blue]
> for creating said drivers, you are going to have to stay with Vista.[/color]
It was not HP who told me about drivers. It was someone from their customer
support team - and you probably are familiar with the level of competence of
customer supports too often you have to teach them about the product they
are supporting - I have much more faith in people here

Nobody forced you to buy that HP, or even to replace your old computer.
Neither HP nor Microsoft is under any obligation to provide you with another
computer that can run XP. Changing the user interface has been a huge pain
in the neck to some but it violates no comsumer laws that I am aware of.
You could have bought another brand computer that still supports XP, or you
could have gone the home assembly route.

What you need to do now, assuming you really want to install XP on your HP,
is start collecting drivers until it looks like you have enough. Also, come
up with a reasonable backup plan in case you need to go back to Vista. If
there is a system recovery partition or system install disks that came with
it that should do nicely. You might also consider getting a replacement HD.
They are real easy to change out or to install another one. Then you can
experiment without running any risk of losing your existing configuration
and data.

Earle

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:Oh6Rw5k%23JHA.4168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> thank you Mike,
> Generally u answeres my question - I shall expect problems with the
> drivers,
> so I have to go dual boot first.
>
> Of course, I visited hp.com and even talked to HP Support before troubling
> people here. The result is inconclusive. They have SOME XP drivers, but
> they
> are not sure they have them all.
>
> As to invalidating warranty - I see no point in this warranty if under
> warranty they cannot replace VISTA for XP/W2K for I cannot use VISTA
> anyway.
> I an keeping it almost a year now and every time I try to do some familiar
> job on it, I have to spend so much time on learning and tuning, that I
> give
> up, close it down and go back to my old destop with w2k. Last time I had
> problems with saving a text file I created onto a flash-stick - it was
> saying that I do not have priveleges for that so I had to email it to
> myself
> and receive the mail on another computer. I guess that there should have
> to
> open some tab, tick some box but I have no time to investigate what to
> open
> and what to tick. Then it turned out that MS ignored backward
> compatibility
> principle and text and spread**** files created on Vista would not get
> opened on previous MS OSes!
>
> as to "If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP
> on
> that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
> running XP instead", first, the shop refused to take it back saying that I
> knew that I was purchasing Vista. I indeed knew that, but I did not know
> that I would need go for VISTA training cources to run it and also to
> throw
> away half of my applications for they would noit install on VISTA.
> Microsoft
> never mentioned this in their VISTA promotions
> As to purchase one running XP instead - when and wherre last time you
> saw
> a computer on sale running anything other then VISTA? I contacted HP, DELL
> and Toshiba and they all advised me that Miscrosoft refused them licences
> for XP or W2K forcing them to sell only VISTA.
>
> So the next question is from the legal field - does this go against the
> consumer rights? I am 55, I use comp for work and I have neither time or
> desire nor ability to learn this new OS, which I am sure will not live
> long.
> Is it legal for MS forcing me to buy it by refusing the familiar OSes?
> If the community of users sue MS for the time loost on all these
> artificially created hurdles, the compensation might be quite considerable
> so tha MS starts noticing theirs customers?
>
>
> "Malke" <malke@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:#ysqQlk#JHA.4692@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> aa wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> > On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format
>> > the
>> > disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in[/color][/color]
> this[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for
>> > this
>> > machine.
>> > Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively
>> > new
>> > machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?[/color]
>>
>> Can't answer such a generalized question except to say that some computer
>> makes/models that come with Vista will have drivers for XP and some
>> won't.
>> You have to look at each specific machine.
>>
>> General information about replacing Vista with XP:
>>
>> A. On an OEM (HP, Sony, etc.) computer:
>>
>> 1. Go to the OEM's website and look for XP drivers for your specific
>> model
>> computer. If there are no XP drivers, then you can't install XP. End of
>> story. If there are drivers, download them and store on a CD-R or USB
>> thumbdrive; you'll need them after you install XP.
>>
>> 2. Check with the OEM - either from their tech support website or by[/color]
> calling[color=green]
>> them - to see if you will void your warranty if you do this. If you will
>> void the warranty, you make the decision.
>>
>> 3. If the OEM does support XP on the machine, call them and see if you
>> can
>> have downgrade rights and have them send you an XP restore disk. This
>> will
>> be far the easiest and best way of getting XP on the machine.
>>
>> 4. If XP is supported on the machine but the OEM doesn't have an XP[/color]
> restore[color=green]
>> disk for you, understand that you'll need to purchase a retail copy of XP
>> from your favorite online or brick/mortar store.
>>
>> 5. Also understand that you will need to do a clean install of XP so if[/color]
> you[color=green]
>> have any data you want, back it up first.
>>
>> 6. If none of the above is applicable to you because you can't run XP on
>> that machine (see Item #1 above), return the computer and purchase one
>> running XP instead.
>>
>> Malke
>> --
>> MS-MVP
>> Elephant Boy Computers - Don't Panic!
>> [url]http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/#FAQ[/url]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]

"aa" wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > If HP doesn't think that drivers exist, and they are the people[/color]
> responsible[color=green]
> > for creating said drivers, you are going to have to stay with Vista.[/color]
> It was not HP who told me about drivers. It was someone from their customer
> support team - and you probably are familiar with the level of competence of
> customer supports too often you have to teach them about the product they
> are supporting - I have much more faith in people here
>
>
>[/color]

I'm 52 and didn't think that learning Vista was much of a challenge. Is it
different than XP? Yep, but not that much different; especially if you run it
in "Classic" mode. Yes, it is a problem if Vista won't run software that you
need for your business. Are there updated versions of the software available
that are Vista compatible? If not, maybe you could sell the Vista machine and
use the money to buy a one year old laptop with XP already on it. There must
be thousands of those available that are being traded in for new machines
with Vista.

[color=blue]
> I'm 52 and didn't think that learning Vista was much of >a challenge.[/color]

For some people learning Vista is even a pleasure. Especially for those,
loving computers per se. People differ. 15 years ago I also was hungry for
learning new belles and whistles. But now i have better ways spending time.
I also believe that MS behave as they do partly because there people
thinking like you who are happy to swallow every crap MS sells them.

[color=blue]
> Are there updated versions of the software available
> that are Vista compatible?[/color]
there are for some and there is not for the others.
But why should I spend my time and money for searching, buying and
installing these new versions?

Now that I do not demand MS make their VISTA to be compatible with other MS
software. I only want the OS I use, to be available. It is made unavailable
intentionally, for commercial reason only

[color=blue]
>If not, maybe you could sell the Vista machine and
> use the money to buy a one year old laptop with XP >already on it. There[/color]
must[color=blue]
> be thousands of those available that are being traded in for new machines[/color]
with Vista.
Beautiful advice. I wish I thought of is myself ;-)

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:ukcKuFo%23JHA.5064@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> I'm 52 and didn't think that learning Vista was much of >a challenge.[/color]
>
> For some people learning Vista is even a pleasure. Especially for those,
> loving computers per se. People differ. 15 years ago I also was hungry for
> learning new belles and whistles. But now i have better ways spending
> time.
> I also believe that MS behave as they do partly because there people
> thinking like you who are happy to swallow every crap MS sells them.
>
>[color=green]
>> Are there updated versions of the software available
>> that are Vista compatible?[/color]
> there are for some and there is not for the others.
> But why should I spend my time and money for searching, buying and
> installing these new versions?
>
> Now that I do not demand MS make their VISTA to be compatible with other
> MS
> software. I only want the OS I use, to be available. It is made
> unavailable
> intentionally, for commercial reason only[/color]

I guess you're still trying to find parts for that Rambler American. At
some point in your life you have to adopt change. Time for you to embrace
the 21st century.
--

Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

> Nobody forced you to buy that HP

Earle, if you read me carefully you will see that I do not complain about
HP.
My complaint is about MS who forced HP to sell computers with VISTA only.
[color=blue]
> Neither HP nor Microsoft is under any obligation to provide you with[/color]
another[color=blue]
> computer that can run XP[/color]

Absurd! MS, as far as I know, does not sell hardware - why do you think I
might consider MS under obligation to provide me with a computer? HP are
happy to supply computers with XP, but MS does not sell them relevant
license.
[color=blue]
>Changing the user interface has been a huge pain
> in the neck to some but it violates no comsumer laws that I am aware of.[/color]

Earle, by your comments lawyer is not your trade or even hobby - you have
difficulties to understand what exactly I am unhappy about.
I am not an idiot to complain about MS changing user interface of their new
product. I am complaining that MS withheld licences for the previous
versions of OS thus forcing consumers to buy they new OS. And the Web is
full of people unhappy with VISTA and wanting to go back to XP or w2k. Of my
contacts I know only two, happy with VISTA. Both are young people, both
using computers for entertainment purposes only - music, video, Internet
browsing. For those using computer for business swear when are reminded of
VISTA.
[color=blue]
> If there is a system recovery partition or system install disks that[/color]
came with[color=blue]
> it that should do nicely.[/color]

You probably are aware that they do not supply system install disks. From my
experience with XP system recovery partition, recovering OS from that
partition does not necessarily goes nicely. I know several cases when people
had to format the whole disk and install OS anew, using installation XP and
even w2k disks from thrown away old computers. This might be illegal but
getting help from MS is hopeless - they always say this is a hardware
fault - if you somehow manage to talk to them which is a challenge per ce.

"JEWboy" <Nojunkmetalblade@nojunkprodigy.net> wrote in message
news:uTCLREm#JHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> I made my Vista behave like XP, whats the problem?
>
> It did take me a week+ though, and a stamina to wiothstand all these[/color]
'you're[color=blue]
> a moron" responses from several idfiots here in respons eot my complains
> about Vista.
>
> But in the end it works. My Vista is I SWEAR faster than XP now, stable,[/color]
I[color=blue]
> fell iam still in XP, a few dialog boxes changed, so what?
>
> All colors, appearances, behaviors, etc are OK, well I replaced Vista[/color]
search[color=blue]
> with MythicSoft, etc but no big deal, $40.
> Wrong move, pal
>
> hink about WIndows7, not WIndowsXP.[/color]

MS should nominate you the best customer of 2009 for you patience and
loyalty. Your exersize looks as if Ford Fiesta fully suited your needs,
but were forced to purchse Bentley and then hummered it down to Fiesta to
fit into your parking space. You love computer tweaking and have time for
that., I like plug in and start working. Now point disputing tastes