> I guess you're still trying to find parts for that Rambler American.
VISTA is Rambler American, only dressed like a spacecraft - equally heavy
and complicated with bells and whistles to mesmerise housewives.
In this sence a genuine Rambler American is of preference

Is VISTA quicker? - No
Is it more convenient to use - No
Has it eliminated shortcomings of XP or w2k - No

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:u0YULZo%23JHA.200@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue][color=green]
>> Nobody forced you to buy that HP[/color]
>
> Earle, if you read me carefully you will see that I do not complain about
> HP.
> My complaint is about MS who forced HP to sell computers with VISTA only.
>[color=green]
>> Neither HP nor Microsoft is under any obligation to provide you with[/color]
> another[color=green]
>> computer that can run XP[/color]
>
> Absurd! MS, as far as I know, does not sell hardware - why do you think I
> might consider MS under obligation to provide me with a computer? HP are
> happy to supply computers with XP, but MS does not sell them relevant
> license.
>[color=green]
>>Changing the user interface has been a huge pain
>> in the neck to some but it violates no comsumer laws that I am aware of.[/color]
>
> Earle, by your comments lawyer is not your trade or even hobby - you have
> difficulties to understand what exactly I am unhappy about.
> I am not an idiot to complain about MS changing user interface of their
> new
> product. I am complaining that MS withheld licences for the previous
> versions of OS thus forcing consumers to buy they new OS. And the Web is
> full of people unhappy with VISTA and wanting to go back to XP or w2k. Of
> my
> contacts I know only two, happy with VISTA. Both are young people, both
> using computers for entertainment purposes only - music, video, Internet
> browsing. For those using computer for business swear when are reminded of
> VISTA.
>[color=green]
>> If there is a system recovery partition or system install disks that[/color]
> came with[color=green]
>> it that should do nicely.[/color]
>
> You probably are aware that they do not supply system install disks. From
> my
> experience with XP system recovery partition, recovering OS from that
> partition does not necessarily goes nicely. I know several cases when
> people
> had to format the whole disk and install OS anew, using installation XP
> and
> even w2k disks from thrown away old computers. This might be illegal but
> getting help from MS is hopeless - they always say this is a hardware
> fault - if you somehow manage to talk to them which is a challenge per ce.
>[/color]


[url]www.ubuntu.com[/url]

--

Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:eu4E8Fm%23JHA.5780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue][color=green]
> > If HP doesn't think that drivers exist, and they are the people[/color]
> responsible[color=green]
>> for creating said drivers, you are going to have to stay with Vista.[/color]
> It was not HP who told me about drivers. It was someone from their
> customer
> support team - and you probably are familiar with the level of competence
> of
> customer supports too often you have to teach them about the product they
> are supporting - I have much more faith in people here
>
>[/color]


If you don't like the way that HP and Microsoft do business, you are at
liberty to go elsewhere for your computing services..

--

Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]

"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u3kQqno%23JHA.4900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
> news:u0YULZo%23JHA.200@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Nobody forced you to buy that HP[/color]
>>
>> Earle, if you read me carefully you will see that I do not complain about
>> HP.
>> My complaint is about MS who forced HP to sell computers with VISTA only.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Neither HP nor Microsoft is under any obligation to provide you with[/color]
>> another[color=darkred]
>>> computer that can run XP[/color]
>>
>> Absurd! MS, as far as I know, does not sell hardware - why do you think I
>> might consider MS under obligation to provide me with a computer? HP are
>> happy to supply computers with XP, but MS does not sell them relevant
>> license.
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Changing the user interface has been a huge pain
>>> in the neck to some but it violates no comsumer laws that I am aware of.[/color]
>>
>> Earle, by your comments lawyer is not your trade or even hobby - you have
>> difficulties to understand what exactly I am unhappy about.
>> I am not an idiot to complain about MS changing user interface of their
>> new
>> product. I am complaining that MS withheld licences for the previous
>> versions of OS thus forcing consumers to buy they new OS. And the Web is
>> full of people unhappy with VISTA and wanting to go back to XP or w2k. Of
>> my
>> contacts I know only two, happy with VISTA. Both are young people, both
>> using computers for entertainment purposes only - music, video, Internet
>> browsing. For those using computer for business swear when are reminded
>> of
>> VISTA.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> If there is a system recovery partition or system install disks that[/color]
>> came with[color=darkred]
>>> it that should do nicely.[/color]
>>
>> You probably are aware that they do not supply system install disks. From
>> my
>> experience with XP system recovery partition, recovering OS from that
>> partition does not necessarily goes nicely. I know several cases when
>> people
>> had to format the whole disk and install OS anew, using installation XP
>> and
>> even w2k disks from thrown away old computers. This might be illegal but
>> getting help from MS is hopeless - they always say this is a hardware
>> fault - if you somehow manage to talk to them which is a challenge per
>> ce.
>>[/color]
>
>
> [url]www.ubuntu.com[/url]
>
> --
>
> Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
> [url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url][/color]

BWAHAHAHA!!!! Game, set & match!
--

Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:e2z4nko%23JHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue][color=green]
>> I guess you're still trying to find parts for that Rambler American.[/color]
> VISTA is Rambler American, only dressed like a spacecraft - equally heavy
> and complicated with bells and whistles to mesmerise housewives.
> In this sence a genuine Rambler American is of preference
>
> Is VISTA quicker? - No
> Is it more convenient to use - No
> Has it eliminated shortcomings of XP or w2k - No
>[/color]

Alias? JEWboy? Nah... You're just a spoiled idiot.
--

Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:u0YULZo%23JHA.200@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue][color=green]
>> Nobody forced you to buy that HP[/color]
>
> Earle, if you read me carefully you will see that I do not complain about
> HP.
> My complaint is about MS who forced HP to sell computers with VISTA only.[/color]

The Dell computer I have been using came with Vista pre-installed but with
XP drivers on the install CD. HP could have done that. It seems that at
least part of your complaint is with HP. Have you even tried to assemble
the necessary driver set to run XP on your computer?
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> Neither HP nor Microsoft is under any obligation to provide you with[/color]
> another[color=green]
>> computer that can run XP[/color]
>
> Absurd! MS, as far as I know, does not sell hardware - why do you think I
> might consider MS under obligation to provide me with a computer? HP are
> happy to supply computers with XP, but MS does not sell them relevant
> license.[/color]

MS is being difficult perhaps, but they're breaking no law. MS
sells/licenses operating systems to HP, who then assembles and sells the
complete product to you, the customer. MS and HP working together "provide"
the computer/operating system combination. They are under no obligation to
provide you with a new one that runs XP. That's like going to my local
Honda dealer and telling them I want another 1999 Honda Civic HX, just like
the one I am trying to trade in. My choices are to buy one of the new cars
available, or to keep using the old one. It's the same with electronics
like your computer.

Your statement that HP is happy to supply computers with XP would seem to be
false, if it did not provide XP-compatible drivers for your model. Again,
did you take the trouble to find the drivers?

I'll tell you what I did. I brought a Dell Inspiron 1501 in December of
2007, determined that the operating system on it was a piece of crap/did not
meet my requirements, and then purchased a Dell OEM version of XP for $35,
on Amazon Marketplace. You could have done that. Well, you would need an
HP or generic OEM version of XP, of course.
[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>>Changing the user interface has been a huge pain
>> in the neck to some but it violates no comsumer laws that I am aware of.[/color]
>
> Earle, by your comments lawyer is not your trade or even hobby - you have
> difficulties to understand what exactly I am unhappy about.
> I am not an idiot to complain about MS changing user interface of their
> new
> product. I am complaining that MS withheld licences for the previous
> versions of OS thus forcing consumers to buy they new OS. And the Web is
> full of people unhappy with VISTA and wanting to go back to XP or w2k. Of
> my
> contacts I know only two, happy with VISTA. Both are young people, both
> using computers for entertainment purposes only - music, video, Internet
> browsing. For those using computer for business swear when are reminded of
> VISTA.
>[/color]
What is your intention in posting to this news group? Are you looking for a
solution to your problem, or do you just want to complain? No one is
forcing anyone to buy a new computer. Those young people must be really
stupid, not knowing how bad Vista is.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> If there is a system recovery partition or system install disks that[/color]
> came with[color=green]
>> it that should do nicely.[/color]
>
> You probably are aware that they do not supply system install disks. From
> my
> experience with XP system recovery partition, recovering OS from that
> partition does not necessarily goes nicely. I know several cases when
> people
> had to format the whole disk and install OS anew, using installation XP
> and
> even w2k disks from thrown away old computers. This might be illegal but
> getting help from MS is hopeless - they always say this is a hardware
> fault - if you somehow manage to talk to them which is a challenge per ce.
>[/color]
All of the manufacturers with which I am familiar sell system restore and
driver media customized for each computer model for a nominal fee. You
could buy the set for your computer model, and use it in the event that your
attempt to install XP fails. You could buy a replacement hard drive, which
are real cheap and easy to swap out, and use that for your XP
experimentation. In your place I would have that computer or a comparable
one running XP in about two days.

Earle

"Mike" <rathbunger@garbagemail.com> wrote in message
news:eY4puip%23JHA.3768@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
> news:e2z4nko%23JHA.2120@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[/color]
....[color=blue]
>
> Don't pick a fight with an old man.
> If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
>[/color]
;^)

Earle

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:10:19 -0400, "Mike" <rathbunger@garbagemail.com>
wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Is VISTA quicker? - No
>> Is it more convenient to use - No
>> Has it eliminated shortcomings of XP or w2k - No
>>[/color]
>
>Alias? JEWboy? Nah... You're just a spoiled idiot.[/color]

He's a "spoiled idiot" because he points out the truth?

Please detail the advantages of Vista. I'd love to see a list.

aa wrote:[color=blue]
> On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in this
> respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> machine.[/color]


*Exactly* what did HP Support say? That they definitely don't provide
WinXP device drivers for that model computer, or that they just wouldn't
help you find them?

[color=blue]
> Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively new
> machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?
>
>[/color]


There could be a couple possible adverse repercussions of which you
should be aware. First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
components work properly. Consult the computer's manufacturer about the
availability of device drivers. Secondly, removing an OEM-installed
operating system and replacing it with another will almost invariably
void any and all support agreements and, in rare cases, possibly even
the warranty. You would, at the very least, have to re-install Vista
before getting any support from the manufacturer. Again, consult the
computer's manufacturer for specifics. Thirdly, there will be the
additional cost involved in purchasing a WinXP license for this new
computer.

After backing up any data you wish to transfer to the new OS
installation, simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be
offered the opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part
of the installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of
boot devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
[url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941[/url]

[url]http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html[/url]

[url]http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm[/url]

Then, assuming you were successful in obtaining WinXP-specific
device drivers so that the computer can be made to work with WinXP, the
backed up data can be restored and applications (those that are
WinXP-compatible, that is) re-installed.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
[url]http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html[/url]

[url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375[/url]

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

+Bob+ wrote:[color=blue]
> On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:10:19 -0400, "Mike" <rathbunger@garbagemail.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Is VISTA quicker? - No
>>> Is it more convenient to use - No
>>> Has it eliminated shortcomings of XP or w2k - No
>>>[/color]
>> Alias? JEWboy? Nah... You're just a spoiled idiot.[/color]
>
> He's a "spoiled idiot" because he points out the truth?
>
> Please detail the advantages of Vista. I'd love to see a list.
>
>[/color]
You can read?
Wonders never cease!

"+Bob+" <nomailplease@example.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
news:0f0o45hde90f9fcvanl2elcgevmtef0l62@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:10:19 -0400, "Mike" <rathbunger@garbagemail.com>
> wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Is VISTA quicker? - No
>>> Is it more convenient to use - No
>>> Has it eliminated shortcomings of XP or w2k - No
>>>[/color]
>>
>>Alias? JEWboy? Nah... You're just a spoiled idiot.[/color]
>
> He's a "spoiled idiot" because he points out the truth?
>
> Please detail the advantages of Vista. I'd love to see a list.
>[/color]
It's not about Vista being a pos or not. It's about some clown griping
about Vista after having bought a machine that (apparently) only is capable
of running Vista. Why didn't he do his research, and why doesn't he do it
now?

Earle

> In your place I would have that computer or a comparable[color=blue]
> one running XP in about two days.
>
> Earle[/color]
You seem to get high of your own smartness, Earlie.
I am here on a reconnaissance and options contemplation, and so far I spent
just half a day. As soon as I get enough info for taking decision, XP will
be up an running in about two hours.

Thanks, Bruce, for detailed feedback.
HP Support exactly say two things:
1. Removing VISTA or even installing XP for dual boot willinvalidate the
warranty. I do not worry about this for with VISTA I am not using the
machine anyway. If some hardware breaks down, I will remove XP and reinstall
VISTA. Or just swap the HD for I awyas store my date on a separate drive or
at least on a separate partition.

2. They do not guarantee I will find ALL the drivers for XP. The answer is
quite ecasive, but I could not get from them anything else
[color=blue]
>First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
> question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
> WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
> components work properly[/color]

That was exactly the source of my worry. They now have a stick on all the
computers Recommended for VISTA or something like that. If MS do not sell
them a licence for XP, manufacturers have little point in developing XP
drivers

Also do you know if it is legally OK to buy, say, on ebay that OEM XP ? Will
MS give support to such an installation?

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:#sUstDr#JHA.1376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> aa wrote:[color=green]
> > On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> > disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in[/color][/color]
this[color=blue][color=green]
> > respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> > machine.[/color]
>
>
> *Exactly* what did HP Support say? That they definitely don't provide
> WinXP device drivers for that model computer, or that they just wouldn't
> help you find them?
>
>[color=green]
> > Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively[/color][/color]
new[color=blue][color=green]
> > machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?
> >
> >[/color]
>
>
> There could be a couple possible adverse repercussions of which you
> should be aware. First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
> question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
> WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
> components work properly. Consult the computer's manufacturer about the
> availability of device drivers. Secondly, removing an OEM-installed
> operating system and replacing it with another will almost invariably
> void any and all support agreements and, in rare cases, possibly even
> the warranty. You would, at the very least, have to re-install Vista
> before getting any support from the manufacturer. Again, consult the
> computer's manufacturer for specifics. Thirdly, there will be the
> additional cost involved in purchasing a WinXP license for this new
> computer.
>
> After backing up any data you wish to transfer to the new OS
> installation, simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be
> offered the opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part
> of the installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of
> boot devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)
>
> HOW TO Install Windows XP
> [url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941[/url]
>
> [url]http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html[/url]
>
> [url]http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm[/url]
>
> Then, assuming you were successful in obtaining WinXP-specific
> device drivers so that the computer can be made to work with WinXP, the
> backed up data can be restored and applications (those that are
> WinXP-compatible, that is) re-installed.
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers
>
> Help us help you:
> [url]http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html[/url]
>
> [url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375[/url]
>
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
>
> Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand[/color]
Russell[color=blue]
>
> The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
> killed a great many philosophers.
> ~ Denis Diderot
>[/color]

Thanks, useful link
"chas2209" <chas2209@nospam.co.uk> wrote in message
news:OoaOGPl#JHA.3612@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> "aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
> news:OmmWOhk%23JHA.1336@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
> > On a year old HP Pavilion/Vista I would like to remove Vista, format the
> > disk and install w2k or XP. But HP support refused all the support in[/color][/color]
this[color=blue][color=green]
> > respect saying they are not sure I will find all XP/w2k drivers for this
> > machine.
> > Has anybody here had difficulties finding XP/w2k drivers for relatively
> > new
> > machines, and for HP Pavilion in particular?
> >
> >[/color]
>
> Hi
> Look here
>
>[/color]
[url]http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/ProdSearch.jsp?lang=en&cc=u[/url]
k&taskId=135&prod=HP[color=blue]
>
>
> chas2209
>
>
>
>[/color]

"aa" <a@microsoft.ru> wrote in message
news:eOCR31u%23JHA.4692@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Thanks, Bruce, for detailed feedback.
> HP Support exactly say two things:
> 1. Removing VISTA or even installing XP for dual boot willinvalidate the
> warranty. I do not worry about this for with VISTA I am not using the
> machine anyway. If some hardware breaks down, I will remove XP and
> reinstall
> VISTA. Or just swap the HD for I awyas store my date on a separate drive
> or
> at least on a separate partition.
>
> 2. They do not guarantee I will find ALL the drivers for XP. The answer is
> quite ecasive, but I could not get from them anything else
>[color=green]
>>First and foremost, if the specific computer model in
>> question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be no
>> WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's diverse
>> components work properly[/color]
>
> That was exactly the source of my worry. They now have a stick on all the
> computers Recommended for VISTA or something like that. If MS do not sell
> them a licence for XP, manufacturers have little point in developing XP
> drivers
>
> Also do you know if it is legally OK to buy, say, on ebay that OEM XP ?
> Will
> MS give support to such an installation?
>[/color]


No.

OEM is supported by the system builder..

That's you..

--

Mike Hall - MVP Windows Experience
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]