By default, Vista system restore is NOT monitoring removable drives (e.g.,
USB had drives) on my 2 computers. I'm a little less clear what the heck
shadow copy is doing ("vssadmin list shadows" will let you know).

"Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
news:O6mV0KOPHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Alexander
>
> Why don't Microsoft learn from their mistakes? Is System Restore in Vista
> still monitoring removable drives?
>
>
> --
>
> Regards.
>
> Gerry
> ~~~~
> FCA
> Stourport, England
> Enquire, plan and execute
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
> Alexander Suhovey wrote:[color=green]
>> Me? Well, yes. Never changed defaults in XP too. There was UI to
>> control space allocation but apparently it was removed in Vista.
>>
>>
>> "Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23YRb0sNPHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>>[/color][/color]
>[/color]

"Gerry Cornell" wrote
[color=blue]
> Richard
>
> What is the procedure for viewing the contents of the System Volume
> Information folder? Is it true that the default setting is 15% of volume?
> Can the default be decreased? If so how?[/color]

System restore in Vista is different. It's not just retore points but also
shadow copies of files so you can replace files with previous versions. To
adjust the amount of space allocated to system restore and shadow copies
plus other functionality run the command line tool vssadmin from an elevated
command prompt. Use /? to see all the options.
[color=blue]
> Setting default disk allocations based on a percentage of volume has in
> many quarters for a long time been felt to be a misguided approach. Are
> there any better ways for calculating a reasonable allocation? Is a
> consensus of opinion on this issue emerging?[/color]

--
Rock [MVP - User/Shell]

The newer versions after they bought out PowerQuest, that image the active
OS do in fact have large IO and file requirements. Older versions that ran
after booting to DOS did not.

"Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
news:uoe10sNPHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Richard
>
> Well Richard there are not many MVPs who support Symantec software. Is it
> just Ghost?
>
> I have some sympathy with your views regarding System Restore in that it
> should only monitor the system drive but does not. Removable drives often
> cause grief for users. However, doesn't Ghost create enormous hidden
> folders? Users can suddenly find themself running out of disk space and
> have no idea why!
>
> --
>
> Regards.
>
> Gerry
> ~~~~
> FCA
> Stourport, England
> Enquire, plan and execute
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Richard Urban wrote:[color=green]
>> I am honestly not an expert on system restore. Since XP came out, I
>> always turned it off after installing a decent imaging program,
>> whether it be Ghost or TrueImage. My stored system images have always
>> taken care of any cases where I have to go back to another point in
>> time, and I can control when the images are created.
>>
>> There is no sense of creating an image when the system is in an
>> unknown state. System Restore knows nothing of the state/stability of
>> your computer. It just creates a restore point. Now, you go back to
>> that restore point and you are in an instable condition, one that you
>> may have previously rectified by further work and adjustments to your
>> system configuration.
>> System restore just doesn't seem like a good thing for me. I want the
>> control.
>>
>>
>> "Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
>> news:Oq6aY4MPHHA.4172@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> What is the procedure for viewing the contents of the System Volume
>>> Information folder? Is it true that the default setting is 15% of
>>> volume? Can the default be decreased? If so how?
>>>
>>> Setting default disk allocations based on a percentage of volume has in
>>> many quarters for a long time been felt to be a misguided
>>> approach. Are there any better ways for calculating a reasonable
>>> allocation? Is a consensus of opinion on this issue emerging?
>>>
>>> abcd please note 15% of 75 gb is 11.25 gb i.e your missing space!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Gerry
>>> ~~~~
>>> FCA
>>> Stourport, England
>>> Enquire, plan and execute
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>> Your apparent lost space is in the same locations that it was with
>>>> Windows XP. These are hidden/system files and System Restore files
>>>> (System Volume Information).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "abcd" <abcd@abcd.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23jT81WMPHHA.3944@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>>> I have 75GB on hard disk. I have installed Vista,SQL Server, MSDN
>>>>> library. It shows 28GB is consumed. If I count the total of all the
>>>>> folders it comes to around 16GB. Where is 11GB?[/color][/color]
>[/color]

Shadow Copy is very cool. It was in XP but not with the same features. It
was further developed in Server 2003 and now refined even more for Vista.
Here's some links about it.

[url]http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/default.mspx[/url]

[url]http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/4ac505e6-dd8b-4ae7-80fa-b9d77cd8104d1033.mspx?mfr=true[/url]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volume_Shadow_Copy_Service[/url]

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
[url]www.vistahelp.ca[/url]


"Rock" <rock@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:uhLaA$OPHHA.4992@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "Gerry Cornell" wrote
>[color=green]
>> Richard
>>
>> What is the procedure for viewing the contents of the System Volume
>> Information folder? Is it true that the default setting is 15% of volume?
>> Can the default be decreased? If so how?[/color]
>
> System restore in Vista is different. It's not just retore points but
> also shadow copies of files so you can replace files with previous
> versions. To adjust the amount of space allocated to system restore and
> shadow copies plus other functionality run the command line tool vssadmin
> from an elevated command prompt. Use /? to see all the options.
>[color=green]
>> Setting default disk allocations based on a percentage of volume has in
>> many quarters for a long time been felt to be a misguided approach. Are
>> there any better ways for calculating a reasonable allocation? Is a
>> consensus of opinion on this issue emerging?[/color]
>
> --
> Rock [MVP - User/Shell][/color]

John

Thanks for the background information. It all helps.


--

~~~~

Gerry

~~~~~~~~
Enquire, plan and execute.
Stourport, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John Barnes wrote:[color=blue]
> The newer versions after they bought out PowerQuest, that image the
> active OS do in fact have large IO and file requirements. Older
> versions that ran after booting to DOS did not.
>
> "Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
> news:uoe10sNPHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Richard
>>
>> Well Richard there are not many MVPs who support Symantec
>> software.
>> Is it just Ghost?
>>
>> I have some sympathy with your views regarding System Restore in
>> that it should only monitor the system drive but does not.
>> Removable
>> drives often cause grief for users. However, doesn't Ghost create
>> enormous hidden folders? Users can suddenly find themself running
>> out of disk space and have no idea why!
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Gerry
>> ~~~~
>> FCA
>> Stourport, England
>> Enquire, plan and execute
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/color][/color]

Looks like there has been lots of discussion since I posted the original
message. I will not try anything for now till I find myself confident. These
days I am not finding time to play with the broken systems (I have sleepless
nights to handle our newborn first)

Guys keep your comments coming. I am reading those in my leisure time.

Thanks for all ur time.

"abcd" <abcd@abcd.com> wrote in message
news:#jT81WMPHHA.3944@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>I have 75GB on hard disk. I have installed Vista,SQL Server, MSDN library.
>It shows 28GB is consumed. If I count the total of all the folders it comes
>to around 16GB. Where is 11GB?
>
>[/color]

Thanks Robert

That is helpful information.


--

~~~~

Gerry

~~~~~~~~
Enquire, plan and execute.
Stourport, England
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robert Blacher wrote:[color=blue]
> That may work, but I don't speak hexadecimal so ...
>
> You can use the "vssadmin" command from an elevated cmd prompt to
> change the amount of disk space system restore and shadow storage
> use. See:
> [url]http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/archive/2006/11/16/identifying-how-much-disk-space-is-used-for-restore-points-in-windows-vista.aspx[/url]
>
> for more than you probably want to know. I used the "vssadmin
> resize
> shadowstorage" command to limit the space to 10GB on my 320GB boot
> drive. That seems adequate, at least for my purposes.
>
>. Where is 11GB?[/color]

Gerry,

I just referenced Ghost and TrueImage. I turned to TrueImage over a year ago
because I personally wasn't happy with Ghost any longer.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!



"Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
news:uoe10sNPHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Richard
>
> Well Richard there are not many MVPs who support Symantec software. Is it
> just Ghost?
>
> I have some sympathy with your views regarding System Restore in that it
> should only monitor the system drive but does not. Removable drives often
> cause grief for users. However, doesn't Ghost create enormous hidden
> folders? Users can suddenly find themself running out of disk space and
> have no idea why!
>
> --
>
> Regards.
>
> Gerry
> ~~~~
> FCA
> Stourport, England
> Enquire, plan and execute
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Richard Urban wrote:[color=green]
>> I am honestly not an expert on system restore. Since XP came out, I
>> always turned it off after installing a decent imaging program,
>> whether it be Ghost or TrueImage. My stored system images have always
>> taken care of any cases where I have to go back to another point in
>> time, and I can control when the images are created.
>>
>> There is no sense of creating an image when the system is in an
>> unknown state. System Restore knows nothing of the state/stability of
>> your computer. It just creates a restore point. Now, you go back to
>> that restore point and you are in an instable condition, one that you
>> may have previously rectified by further work and adjustments to your
>> system configuration.
>> System restore just doesn't seem like a good thing for me. I want the
>> control.
>>
>>
>> "Gerry Cornell" <gcjc@tenretnitb.com> wrote in message
>> news:Oq6aY4MPHHA.4172@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> What is the procedure for viewing the contents of the System Volume
>>> Information folder? Is it true that the default setting is 15% of
>>> volume? Can the default be decreased? If so how?
>>>
>>> Setting default disk allocations based on a percentage of volume has in
>>> many quarters for a long time been felt to be a misguided
>>> approach. Are there any better ways for calculating a reasonable
>>> allocation? Is a consensus of opinion on this issue emerging?
>>>
>>> abcd please note 15% of 75 gb is 11.25 gb i.e your missing space!
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Gerry
>>> ~~~~
>>> FCA
>>> Stourport, England
>>> Enquire, plan and execute
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>> Your apparent lost space is in the same locations that it was with
>>>> Windows XP. These are hidden/system files and System Restore files
>>>> (System Volume Information).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "abcd" <abcd@abcd.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:%23jT81WMPHHA.3944@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>>> I have 75GB on hard disk. I have installed Vista,SQL Server, MSDN
>>>>> library. It shows 28GB is consumed. If I count the total of all the
>>>>> folders it comes to around 16GB. Where is 11GB?[/color][/color]
>[/color]

"Robert Blacher" <rblacher@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:76DB81FE-5662-4701-BE40-C0A291B14690@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> That may work, but I don't speak hexadecimal[/color]

Regedit can speak it for you :-) It allows entering DWORD values both in
decihal and in hex.
[color=blue]
> You can use the "vssadmin" command from an elevated cmd prompt to change
> the amount of disk space system restore and shadow storage use.
> [url]http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/archive/2006/11/16/identifying-how-much-disk-space-is-used-for-restore-points-in-windows-vista.aspx[/url][/color]

Thanks for the tip. Actually I was looking for command-line utility to
control System Restore storage limits when I was answering to OP since it is
the way features usually presented in latest versions of Windows: there's a
somewhat limited UI and then there's a command-line utility for advanced
users (take defrag.exe as an example). But somehow I've forgot that
underlying technology is VSS and didn't think of vssadmin.
[color=blue]
> I used the "vssadmin resize shadowstorage" command to limit the space to
> 10GB on my 320GB boot drive. That seems adequate, at least for my
> purposes.[/color]

Here's the problem I see with manual configuration of VSS/Syste Restore: How
do you know how much it needs?

Are you familiar enough with inner workings of VSS to calculate required
storage for your usage patterns, space occupied by files and history depth
you need? I'm not. And since I don't want to be in the situation where the
older snapshot that I really need was deleted due to insufficient space to
store newer one, I agree with default storage settings.

Since, as I understand, System Restore uses "Copy-on-Write" shadow copies
(e.g. differential ones) the size of a volume itself is as important as the
number of files stored on the volume and the rate of changes to the files on
the volume.
[url]http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/2b0d2457-b7d8-42c3-b6c9-59c145b7765f1033.mspx?mfr=true[/url]

--
Alexander Suhovey

How much system restore/shadow storage space to allocate really goes to the
issue that Richard Urban discussed -- How valuable are backups that are made
at times when your system may or may not be stable?

In my case, I do full, image manual backups regularly to external USB drives
just before I make a major change and after when I am relatively sure that
all is well. In that situation, Vista's automatic but somewhat brainless
(no offense intended MS) system restore/shadow copies aren't all that useful
to me. At 10GB shadow storage size, it's maintaining about 5 restore
points. That works for me but might be all wrong for someone who had a
different manual backup regime.

Anyway, a useful discussion. Thanks.


"Alexander Suhovey" <asuhovey******.com> wrote in message
news:EFFA8B54-2DFB-4E47-8486-E7E116B5A8CC@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> "Robert Blacher" <rblacher@community.nospam> wrote in message
> news:76DB81FE-5662-4701-BE40-C0A291B14690@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> That may work, but I don't speak hexadecimal[/color]
>
> Regedit can speak it for you :-) It allows entering DWORD values both in
> decihal and in hex.
>[color=green]
>> You can use the "vssadmin" command from an elevated cmd prompt to change
>> the amount of disk space system restore and shadow storage use.
>> [url]http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/archive/2006/11/16/identifying-how-much-disk-space-is-used-for-restore-points-in-windows-vista.aspx[/url][/color]
>
> Thanks for the tip. Actually I was looking for command-line utility to
> control System Restore storage limits when I was answering to OP since it
> is the way features usually presented in latest versions of Windows:
> there's a somewhat limited UI and then there's a command-line utility for
> advanced users (take defrag.exe as an example). But somehow I've forgot
> that underlying technology is VSS and didn't think of vssadmin.
>[color=green]
>> I used the "vssadmin resize shadowstorage" command to limit the space to
>> 10GB on my 320GB boot drive. That seems adequate, at least for my
>> purposes.[/color]
>
> Here's the problem I see with manual configuration of VSS/Syste Restore:
> How do you know how much it needs?
>
> Are you familiar enough with inner workings of VSS to calculate required
> storage for your usage patterns, space occupied by files and history depth
> you need? I'm not. And since I don't want to be in the situation where the
> older snapshot that I really need was deleted due to insufficient space to
> store newer one, I agree with default storage settings.
>
> Since, as I understand, System Restore uses "Copy-on-Write" shadow copies
> (e.g. differential ones) the size of a volume itself is as important as
> the number of files stored on the volume and the rate of changes to the
> files on the volume.
> [url]http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsServer/en/Library/2b0d2457-b7d8-42c3-b6c9-59c145b7765f1033.mspx?mfr=true[/url]
>
> --
> Alexander Suhovey
>
>[/color]

Robert

Of course having another so called ally doing this to you probably
does not help! The Knowledge Base Article applies to Windows XP but I
would not accept any bets against it equally aplpying to Vista.

[url]http://symantec.atgnow.com/consumer/resultDisplay.do?gotoLink=3288&docType=1000&contextId=8957%3A3288.3320&clusterName=Consumer&contentId=5d3df1e5-90b7-470b-a89d-594df689bdd1&responseId=2ab0b9c736fe8230%3A1b1fbf4%3A110471c65d1%3A5da4&groupId=8&answerGroup=1&score=1315&page=http%3A%2F%2Fservice1.symantec.com%2Fsupport%2Fsharedtech.nsf%2Fpfdocs%2F2005113009323013&result=0&excerpt=Your+computer+cannot+be+restored&resultType=5000&mini_version=nis_2006[/url]

--

Regards.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Robert Blacher wrote:[color=blue]
> How much system restore/shadow storage space to allocate really goes
> to the issue that Richard Urban discussed -- How valuable are
> backups
> that are made at times when your system may or may not be stable?
>
> In my case, I do full, image manual backups regularly to external
> USB
> drives just before I make a major change and after when I am
> relatively sure that all is well. In that situation, Vista's
> automatic but somewhat brainless (no offense intended MS) system
> restore/shadow copies aren't all that useful to me. At 10GB shadow
> storage size, it's maintaining about 5 restore points. That works
> for me but might be all wrong for someone who had a different manual
> backup regime.
> Anyway, a useful discussion. Thanks.
>
>[/color]