So long as you keep them handy you should soon pick them up. To be honest i
gave up using WSR in Vista because I found, after a while, that I was
getting blinding headaches and I couldn't understand why. I think it was
having to constantly moderate the pitch of my voice so that (a) WSR
recognised what I was saying and (b) the pitch was low enough so as my
family in the next room didn't have to listen to me dictating:-) I found
this to be very stressful.

I've tried WSR in Windows 7 but I had to abandon that because of a bug which
kept switching the microphone on and off - very frustrating when you are
trying to dictate.

With WSR I always kept the list of command on my desk so, anything I was
unsure of, I could quickly locate the command without having to wade through
reams of paper or the WSR help file.


--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Wendy" <none@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:#OiLSlPyJHA.1196@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue][color=green]
>> I tried Dragon and it was a waste of money. The errors drove me crazy.
>> This technology is not ready yet IMHO.[/color]
>
> Thanks very much Pete, that is a great comfort to me now I have actually
> purchased the software.
>
> Yes John you were right, all the instructions, commands and features are
> there in a pdf file which I downloaded with Adobe Acrobat Reader and
> printed out.
>
> Now I guess it is just a matter of learning the commands etc.
>
> Wendy
>
> "Pete" <Pete@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:cF_Jl.3340$fD.2654@flpi145.ffdc.sbc.com...[color=green]
>> "Wendy" <none@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:%23$%23uPjCyJHA.3476@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have started tinkering with the built in Windows Speech Recognition
>>> within my Vista operating system. I find it quite novel that you can
>>> talk to the screen and your words come out on it. Granted that I have
>>> cheated at times when it goes wrong and I have to type in corrections
>>> but I was wondering if there are any experts out there who could tell me
>>> how to make this more accurate?
>>>
>>> I have also invested in a program called Dragon Naturally Speaking and
>>> loaded it onto my machine today. I started tinkering with this but I
>>> believe I have to learn completely different commands to that of Windows
>>> Speech Recognition.
>>>
>>> Does anybody know the difference? I have got the bug with this now and
>>> as I am a teacher, it could come in very handy especially if I could get
>>> it to be more accurate.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>> Wendy[/color]
>>
>> I tried Dragon and it was a waste of money. The errors drove me crazy.
>> This technology is not ready yet IMHO.
>>[/color][/color]

In article <O0L60EEyJHA.3920@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, Wendy
<none@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> ...but I am finding the dragon harder to learn
> because I have just got it.[/color]

Hi Wendy, that is a common complaint about Dragon,
seems the excellent tutorial of Vista Speech is easier
for newbies to grasp.

May I ask what version of Dragon you bought?

"Standard" or "Preferred" ?

[color=blue]
> I have started tinkering with the built in Windows
> Speech Recognition within my Vista operating system.[/color]

I am still tinkering after 14 years ;-)

Beware, I am about to bore you with a little trivia. <g>
Ignore the rest of this if you have anything better to do.

PhDs Jim and Janet Baker founded Dragon Systems in 1982.

In 1995 I bought one of their first public offerings,
called "Dragon Dictate". This was about the first time that
a good speech "consumer-level" product was offered to
the general public

I...had...to...speak...like...this...with a space between each
word, the top speed was about 40wpm.

Accuracy was pretty darn good, though.


In 1997, Dragon introduced "Naturally Speaking", which
was the first "continuous speech" software for the general
public. I could therefore speak normally such as:

"Nowisthetimeforallgoodmentocometotheaidoftheircountry"

....and the poor software had to figure out where each word
began and ended.

So nowadays, I have no problem speaking at a fast rate
of 336 wpm and have my computer understand each and
every word.

Believe me, if I mispronounced even one of those 336 words,
it would come out wrong on the screen.

I managed to get 100% accuracy, no corrections needed.



Well, I lied a little, I had a _tiny_ problem.

I could only maintain that fast rate for 60 seconds. I did
21 repeats of the sentence:

"now is the time for all good men
to come to the aid of their country"

Every 2 reps I gulped a breath. I was more or less
blue in the face after 60 seconds of dictating.


I have no doubt that those "speed talking" champions
could push Dragon to 600 wpm and get at least 99%
raw accuracy, which means they would average about
6 mistakes per minute.

Correcting those mistakes would waste another minute,
dropping their effective speed way down to 300 wpm.


Wendy, one last bit of trivia, this time regarding
modern speech apps in general.

A tiny Mac software company named "MacSpeech"
just fielded a speech recognition app named:
"MacSpeech Dictate 1.0" a year ago.

This Mac software is very immature, it can't yet even
link a users voice to training a misrecognized word.

It is all Mac users have, and they will no doubt improve
their software in years to come.

Windows users are blessed with much better speech apps.


ANYHOW, in my modest way I am trying to popularize
this immature speech app to Mac users, hitting a stone
wall so far.

Here is an example of what I managed to force this very
immature Mac software to do, with only _one_ text
mistake that needed correction:

-------------------------------
Patient's name is Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper.
She is a Ukrainian-American, born in the USA.

Only standard Whipple resections were performed.

Reconstruction was achieved using one-or-two jejunal
loops, an end-to-side pancreaticojejunostomy, an
end-to-side hepaticojejunostomy, and a gastrojejunostomy,
with or without a transanastomotic drain,
in the pancreatic duct.
------------------------------


The one mistake was a incorrect word "and" at the end of
one of the lines above, which I had to correct to the correct
word "an".

The point is, when you get your share of smarts about the
ins-and-outs of speech recognition, you also will be able to
duplicate the results that I achieve.

All the good people in this thread have given you excellent
advice. I am far from being any sort of expert on the
subject.

In my case most of what I learned was learned the
hard way, by experimenting, instead of listening to
other people. Please do not repeat my mistakes.

Good Luck, Wendy, remember, keep it fun.

Mark-

--

Technical Details -

Two-year old MacBook Pro, 4 GB ram,
Vista Ultimate on an 80 GB partition of the Mac,
presently running "Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10.0"
(the "full" medical version at the cheapy price of $1,600)

Presently own these speech apps:
1) Dragon "Standard" $99
2) Dragon "Preferred" $200
3) Dragon "Pro" $900
4) Dragon "Medical" $1,600

5) WSR (Vista Speech Recognition)

6) "MacSpeech Dictate 1.3" $200

Microphones, several, generally use the cheap ones
that ship with Dragon software, like "Andrea NC-91"
headset microphone.

USB "Translator", basically an external sound "pod"
that plugs into the Andrea headset at one end, and the
Macs USB port at the other end. Cost roughly $40.

John Barnett MVP wrote:[color=blue]
> So long as you keep them handy you should soon pick them up. To be
> honest i gave up using WSR in Vista because I found, after a while, that
> I was getting blinding headaches and I couldn't understand why. I think
> it was having to constantly moderate the pitch of my voice so that (a)
> WSR recognised what I was saying and (b) the pitch was low enough so as
> my family in the next room didn't have to listen to me dictating:-) I
> found this to be very stressful.
>
> I've tried WSR in Windows 7 but I had to abandon that because of a bug
> which kept switching the microphone on and off - very frustrating when
> you are trying to dictate.
>
> With WSR I always kept the list of command on my desk so, anything I was
> unsure of, I could quickly locate the command without having to wade
> through reams of paper or the WSR help file.
>
>[/color]


Ah the files were playing backwards... and you were hearing Bill Gates
saying "Come, join the evil empire" and all the time your real self was
saying no, I want Linux...

> May I ask what version of Dragon you bought?[color=blue]
>
> "Standard" or "Preferred" ?[/color]

Hi Mark,

It is 9.5 Preferred. I bought it from a friend of a friend for £ 40.00. He
said it was good value and it was still in the box, he had never used it.
The 10 Preferred is too expensive for me, I am only a humble teacher on a
meagre salary, it seemed like a good deal.

I have started to look at some of the commands and features but there are
hundreds! Plus I do get confused and forget this is a different speech
recognition program to windows and occasionally I say the wrong command so I
have to quickly look at my printed out sheet of commands for Dragon to
remind me.

One thing I have noticed with Dragon, as I am dictating the words, there is
a slight delay before the word's appear On The Screen. Do you just carry on
dictating and not worry about this delay? It is very clever though and I am
fascinated with it at the moment. It could be a very useful tool for me if
I had more time. I suppose little by little if I gradually learn the basic
commands at first it will eventually stick in the grey matter!
[color=blue]
> I am still tinkering after 14 years ;-)[/color]

14 years! You must be an expert on the subject, that is a long time and I
can tell by your post that you are very knowledgeable with this technology.

Me, I have just started, four days ago with Dragon! I have tinkered with
windows speech recognition a little more because it is in my operating
system anyway, so I thought I would give it a bash.

I also use a Dictaphone for work to take any last minute notes down and this
technology could also help me in that department albeit just for taking
notes at the moment by dictating.
[color=blue]
> So nowadays, I have no problem speaking at a fast rate
> of 336 wpm and have my computer understand each and
> every word.[/color]

Gosh, really? That is fast. How long did it take you to dictate that fast?
Do you use it for work in some capacity?

For me, it has the potential for being a permanent tool within my work if I
persevere as you have done. I know where to come if I need any tips then!
[color=blue]
> Good Luck, Wendy, remember, keep it fun.[/color]

Yes, it is sort of at the fun stage at the moment but with a little
frustration added for me in my case.

In your case after 14 years you must know every command and feature like the
back of your hand! Still you have to start somewhere I suppose and if I
study these commands bit by bit every night, I can only improve, right?

Wendy


"Mark Conrad" <none-of@your-business.invalid> wrote in message
news:290420091945132766%none-of@your-business.invalid...[color=blue]
> In article <O0L60EEyJHA.3920@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, Wendy
> <none@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> ...but I am finding the dragon harder to learn
>> because I have just got it.[/color]
>
> Hi Wendy, that is a common complaint about Dragon,
> seems the excellent tutorial of Vista Speech is easier
> for newbies to grasp.
>
> May I ask what version of Dragon you bought?
>
> "Standard" or "Preferred" ?
>
>[color=green]
>> I have started tinkering with the built in Windows
>> Speech Recognition within my Vista operating system.[/color]
>
> I am still tinkering after 14 years ;-)
>
> Beware, I am about to bore you with a little trivia. <g>
> Ignore the rest of this if you have anything better to do.
>
> PhDs Jim and Janet Baker founded Dragon Systems in 1982.
>
> In 1995 I bought one of their first public offerings,
> called "Dragon Dictate". This was about the first time that
> a good speech "consumer-level" product was offered to
> the general public
>
> I...had...to...speak...like...this...with a space between each
> word, the top speed was about 40wpm.
>
> Accuracy was pretty darn good, though.
>
>
> In 1997, Dragon introduced "Naturally Speaking", which
> was the first "continuous speech" software for the general
> public. I could therefore speak normally such as:
>
> "Nowisthetimeforallgoodmentocometotheaidoftheircountry"
>
> ...and the poor software had to figure out where each word
> began and ended.
>
> So nowadays, I have no problem speaking at a fast rate
> of 336 wpm and have my computer understand each and
> every word.
>
> Believe me, if I mispronounced even one of those 336 words,
> it would come out wrong on the screen.
>
> I managed to get 100% accuracy, no corrections needed.
>
>
>
> Well, I lied a little, I had a _tiny_ problem.
>
> I could only maintain that fast rate for 60 seconds. I did
> 21 repeats of the sentence:
>
> "now is the time for all good men
> to come to the aid of their country"
>
> Every 2 reps I gulped a breath. I was more or less
> blue in the face after 60 seconds of dictating.
>
>
> I have no doubt that those "speed talking" champions
> could push Dragon to 600 wpm and get at least 99%
> raw accuracy, which means they would average about
> 6 mistakes per minute.
>
> Correcting those mistakes would waste another minute,
> dropping their effective speed way down to 300 wpm.
>
>
> Wendy, one last bit of trivia, this time regarding
> modern speech apps in general.
>
> A tiny Mac software company named "MacSpeech"
> just fielded a speech recognition app named:
> "MacSpeech Dictate 1.0" a year ago.
>
> This Mac software is very immature, it can't yet even
> link a users voice to training a misrecognized word.
>
> It is all Mac users have, and they will no doubt improve
> their software in years to come.
>
> Windows users are blessed with much better speech apps.
>
>
> ANYHOW, in my modest way I am trying to popularize
> this immature speech app to Mac users, hitting a stone
> wall so far.
>
> Here is an example of what I managed to force this very
> immature Mac software to do, with only _one_ text
> mistake that needed correction:
>
> -------------------------------
> Patient's name is Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper.
> She is a Ukrainian-American, born in the USA.
>
> Only standard Whipple resections were performed.
>
> Reconstruction was achieved using one-or-two jejunal
> loops, an end-to-side pancreaticojejunostomy, an
> end-to-side hepaticojejunostomy, and a gastrojejunostomy,
> with or without a transanastomotic drain,
> in the pancreatic duct.
> ------------------------------
>
>
> The one mistake was a incorrect word "and" at the end of
> one of the lines above, which I had to correct to the correct
> word "an".
>
> The point is, when you get your share of smarts about the
> ins-and-outs of speech recognition, you also will be able to
> duplicate the results that I achieve.
>
> All the good people in this thread have given you excellent
> advice. I am far from being any sort of expert on the
> subject.
>
> In my case most of what I learned was learned the
> hard way, by experimenting, instead of listening to
> other people. Please do not repeat my mistakes.
>
> Good Luck, Wendy, remember, keep it fun.
>
> Mark-
>
> --
>
> Technical Details -
>
> Two-year old MacBook Pro, 4 GB ram,
> Vista Ultimate on an 80 GB partition of the Mac,
> presently running "Dragon NaturallySpeaking 10.0"
> (the "full" medical version at the cheapy price of $1,600)
>
> Presently own these speech apps:
> 1) Dragon "Standard" $99
> 2) Dragon "Preferred" $200
> 3) Dragon "Pro" $900
> 4) Dragon "Medical" $1,600
>
> 5) WSR (Vista Speech Recognition)
>
> 6) "MacSpeech Dictate 1.3" $200
>
> Microphones, several, generally use the cheap ones
> that ship with Dragon software, like "Andrea NC-91"
> headset microphone.
>
> USB "Translator", basically an external sound "pod"
> that plugs into the Andrea headset at one end, and the
> Macs USB port at the other end. Cost roughly $40.[/color]

Actually Charlie I've tried the latest version of Linux. As always it was
uninstalled just as quickly and consigned to the recycle bin where it
belongs!

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:Owt2JxUyJHA.4800@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> John Barnett MVP wrote:[color=green]
>> So long as you keep them handy you should soon pick them up. To be honest
>> i gave up using WSR in Vista because I found, after a while, that I was
>> getting blinding headaches and I couldn't understand why. I think it was
>> having to constantly moderate the pitch of my voice so that (a) WSR
>> recognised what I was saying and (b) the pitch was low enough so as my
>> family in the next room didn't have to listen to me dictating:-) I found
>> this to be very stressful.
>>
>> I've tried WSR in Windows 7 but I had to abandon that because of a bug
>> which kept switching the microphone on and off - very frustrating when
>> you are trying to dictate.
>>
>> With WSR I always kept the list of command on my desk so, anything I was
>> unsure of, I could quickly locate the command without having to wade
>> through reams of paper or the WSR help file.
>>
>>[/color]
>
>
> Ah the files were playing backwards... and you were hearing Bill Gates
> saying "Come, join the evil empire" and all the time your real self was
> saying no, I want Linux...[/color]

Not sure what you answered there, don't recall mentioning Linux but
never mind. I find that there are similarities with Windows in that a
simple clean system like Debian is very stable while the more you add to
it (Ubuntu for example) the more problems you can get. Obviously that's
partly because you will be doing more with it, but also if you go adding
applications like crazy just because they are there you will get some
bad ones, again just like Windows.

John Barnett MVP wrote:[color=blue]
> Actually Charlie I've tried the latest version of Linux. As always it
> was uninstalled just as quickly and consigned to the recycle bin where
> it belongs!
>[/color]

In article <upXPEQayJHA.480@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>, Wendy
<none@nospam.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > May I ask what version of Dragon you bought?
> >
> > "Standard" or "Preferred" ?[/color]
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> It is 9.5 Preferred. I bought it from a friend of a friend
> for £ 40.00. He said it was good value and it was still
> in the box, he had never used it.[/color]

Great! - I did not want to say anything, in case you bought
"Standard", but Standard is just a toy, practically useless
in case you really get "hooked" by the technology.

You might keep in the back of your mind that Dragon,
at the present time, has an upgrade sale going, until
only June 30, 2009.

$300 (US) gets you an upgrade to the $900 "Pro"
version of Dragon 10.1

That is a saving of $400 (USA)


[color=blue]
> I have started to look at some of the commands and features
> but there are hundreds![/color]

Actually thousands. <g> Not to worry, I have heard that UK
teachers have flawless memories.

Only the commands that have to do with correcting text
are really important. It does little good to dictate at
200 wpm if the correction time drags that down
to 20 wpm.

That is the main reason why serious business use of
speech is dominated by Dragon, while Vista speech is
essentially limited to hobby use.

[color=blue]
> Plus I do get confused and ...[/color]

Tell me about it !!! Here I have to juggle 3 different speech
apps, Dragon, Vista, MacSpeech, not easy 'cause I am 99%
senile, at 80 years old.

Plus my false teeth jump out of my mouth occassionally,
so I wind up chasing them around the floor while they are
still jabbering away. Not a pretty sight.


'Nuther thing to keep in mind is the "glitz" of this technology
which is what sucked you in. That fascination value could be
used to intrigue your students, also.

As a teacher, you know that what you teach today will likely
be of little use to your students when they adopt newer
technologies during their lifetime, however when they
get exposed to speech stuff, they will be a leg up on others,
later in their life. (Star-Trek reasoning)<g>

Here in the backward colonies of the USA, only 7% of US
hospitals use modern speech technology, because the
physicians were never exposed to it during their schooling,
therefore are biased and scared to death about it.

Not at all unusual to see a doctor hammering away with a
chisel on a stone tablet here in the good old USA.

The doctors here _try_ to remember important details
about each patient, but memory is fickle.

[color=blue][color=green]
> > So nowadays, I have no problem speaking at a fast rate
> > of 336 wpm and have my computer understand each and
> > every word.[/color]
>
> Gosh, really? That is fast. How long did it take you to
> dictate that fast?[/color]

Not really all that difficult for you. Try speaking the
16 words "Now is the time..." etc in under 3 seconds.

That is 320 wpm.

If you can do it in under 2 seconds, it is 480 wpm.

My accuracy fell off if I spoke faster than 336 wpm.

Don't waste time breathing, just keep your oxygen
bottle handy. <g>

[color=blue]
> Do you use it for work in some capacity?[/color]

Naw, just a fun thing.

Lemme tell you though, it was downright frustrating
for me to dictate for a full 60 seconds, without *ANY*
words appearing on my screen!

At the end of 60 seconds, when I stopped for a breath,
all 336 words jumped onto my screen at once.

(21 repititions of that 16-word sentence)

[color=blue]
> One thing I have noticed with Dragon, as I am dictating
> the words, there is a slight delay before the word's
> appear On The Screen. Do you just carry on
> dictating and not worry about this delay?[/color]

Yep. The computer, of necessity, has to wait for you to
complete an "utterance", before it can figure out what you
said, then display those words on your screen.

In other words, if I dictated:

"My two dollar tutu is too tight to wear, my other tutu
was 2 point 2"

I know, that sentence does not make sense, but I am just
using it to demonstrate a point.

It should, and does, print on my screen this result:

My two dollar tutu is too tight to wear,
my other tutu was 2.2

Why? Because I trained it that way. (in Dragon)

It has to patiently wait for me to finish talking,
before it can figure out which "to" is which, THEN
display the results on my screen.


Play with Dragon, keep the upgrade date in mind, you can
always revert to Vista Speech if Dragon is not your cup of tea.

Don't allow this junk to overwhelm you, just delve into it
a bit at a time, when you are in the mood. :)

Mark-

On Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:13:54 -0700, Mark Conrad wrote:
[color=blue]
> Not at all unusual to see a doctor hammering away with a
> chisel on a stone tablet here in the good old USA.[/color]

You must live in the eastern US. Here in the West we use clay and styli
with wedge-shaped tips. Much more user friendly.

I have enjoyed your encouragement of Wendy. I wish her good luck as well
:-)

BTW - I don't use speech-to-text at all, but a friend of mine needs it
because of repetitive motion problems, so I'm interested by proxy, and have
been lurking in this thread.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"Mark Conrad" wrote:
[color=blue]
> That is the main reason why serious business use of
> speech is dominated by Dragon, while Vista speech is
> essentially limited to hobby use.[/color]

That is not an accurate statement. WSR (Windows Speech Recognition) was
designed as a general business vocabulary. I use it to respond to dozens of
E-mail a day with very few corrections necessary. Using the WSRTookit I am
able to easily create and use dozens of text macros (repeatable text). In
addition, I have some easily created command macros that scroll from one
customer record to the next. Also I have some sophisticated command macros
for Importing Orders into the Accounting program and Exporting customer
shipping information to our UPS label program.

Of course I do not usually recommend WSR to a physician because medical
terminology and workflow is highly specialized. However, I trained an
orthopedist several months ago on WSR. He dictates only into Microsoft Word
(not an Electronic Medical Record software). We ran 50 of his Word documents
through the WSRToolkit's, "Add Text From File," feature. This parsed his
document and set the WSR Language Model to more closely understand his style
of speaking. See the WSRToolkit at:
[url]http://www.mymsspeech.com/microphones/prod_details.asp?subCatID=71&prodID=228[/url]

Marty

[url]www.MyMSSpeech.com[/url] wrote:[color=blue]
> "Mark Conrad" wrote:
>[color=green]
>> That is the main reason why serious business use of
>> speech is dominated by Dragon, while Vista speech is
>> essentially limited to hobby use.[/color]
>
> That is not an accurate statement. WSR (Windows Speech Recognition) was
> designed as a general business vocabulary. I use it to respond to dozens of
> E-mail a day with very few corrections necessary. Using the WSRTookit I am
> able to easily create and use dozens of text macros (repeatable text). In
> addition, I have some easily created command macros that scroll from one
> customer record to the next. Also I have some sophisticated command macros
> for Importing Orders into the Accounting program and Exporting customer
> shipping information to our UPS label program.
>
> Of course I do not usually recommend WSR to a physician because medical
> terminology and workflow is highly specialized. However, I trained an
> orthopedist several months ago on WSR. He dictates only into Microsoft Word
> (not an Electronic Medical Record software). We ran 50 of his Word documents
> through the WSRToolkit's, "Add Text From File," feature. This parsed his
> document and set the WSR Language Model to more closely understand his style
> of speaking. See the WSRToolkit at:
> [url]http://www.mymsspeech.com/microphones/prod_details.asp?subCatID=71&prodID=228[/url]
>
> Marty[/color]

But that is not part of Vista so if people don't know about it they will
only see the OS as it stands...

In article <1actdow7yv0wj.lsn7fqt070xa$.dlg@40tude.net>, Gene E. Bloch
<not-me@other.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
> I have enjoyed your encouragement of Wendy.
> I wish her good luck as well[/color]

Thanks, speech recognition apps are kind of rough
for new users, hope she does not get overwhelmed.


[color=blue]
> BTW - I don't use speech-to-text at all, but a friend of mine
> needs it because of repetitive motion problems, so I'm
> interested by proxy, and have been lurking in this thread.[/color]

Well, both of the Windows speech apps are good for that sort of
thing, both the free Vista speech app that is part of Vista, and
the $200 commercial "Dragon Preferred" app that Wendy has.

The free Vista speech app is simplier for newbies to learn,
but that simplicity comes comes with a hidden drawback.

Dragon is much more "mature" and flexible, particularly if
your friend becomes interested in speech recognition after his
hands heal up.

Tough choice, each person has to "guess" how interested they
will eventually become in the speech technology,
and choose accordingly.



Usually, most new users opt for the easier free Vista app, then
they have trouble like Wendy is having, in learning Dragon.

I was lucky, I started with Dragon, so did not have to make
the somewhat painful switch to Dragon later.

Mark-

Mark Conrad said...
[color=blue]
> Actually thousands. <g> Not to worry, I have heard that UK
> teachers have flawless memories.[/color]

I guess the strategy is you have to learn and take in the commands for this
software to become more efficient at it. I do not know about my memory being
flawless but I will give it a go nevertheless.
[color=blue]
> You might keep in the back of your mind that Dragon,
> at the present time, has an upgrade sale going, until
> only June 30, 2009.
>
> $300 (US) gets you an upgrade to the $900 "Pro"
> version of Dragon 10.1
>
> That is a saving of $400 (USA)[/color]

That is a lot of money for me. I should at least learn what I have at the
moment do you not agree before I move on to updating it?
[color=blue]
> Not really all that difficult for you. Try speaking the
> 16 words "Now is the time..." etc in under 3 seconds.
>
> That is 320 wpm.[/color]

I shall give it a bash at and let you know how I got on!
[color=blue]
> My two dollar tutu is too tight to wear,
> my other tutu was 2.2
>
> Why? Because I trained it that way. (in Dragon)[/color]

May I ask how you as you say, "train it" to make it do what you have done
above?
[color=blue]
> Don't allow this junk to overwhelm you, just delve into it
> a bit at a time, when you are in the mood. :)[/color]

That is what I am doing at the moment. Fascinating stuff and a great
program by the way you portray it. Thank you for the advice.

Wendy


"Mark Conrad" <none-of@your-business.invalid> wrote in message
news:300420091313543418%none-of@your-business.invalid...[color=blue]
> In article <upXPEQayJHA.480@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>, Wendy
> <none@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > May I ask what version of Dragon you bought?
>> >
>> > "Standard" or "Preferred" ?[/color]
>>
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> It is 9.5 Preferred. I bought it from a friend of a friend
>> for £ 40.00. He said it was good value and it was still
>> in the box, he had never used it.[/color]
>
> Great! - I did not want to say anything, in case you bought
> "Standard", but Standard is just a toy, practically useless
> in case you really get "hooked" by the technology.
>
> You might keep in the back of your mind that Dragon,
> at the present time, has an upgrade sale going, until
> only June 30, 2009.
>
> $300 (US) gets you an upgrade to the $900 "Pro"
> version of Dragon 10.1
>
> That is a saving of $400 (USA)
>
>
>[color=green]
>> I have started to look at some of the commands and features
>> but there are hundreds![/color]
>
> Actually thousands. <g> Not to worry, I have heard that UK
> teachers have flawless memories.
>
> Only the commands that have to do with correcting text
> are really important. It does little good to dictate at
> 200 wpm if the correction time drags that down
> to 20 wpm.
>
> That is the main reason why serious business use of
> speech is dominated by Dragon, while Vista speech is
> essentially limited to hobby use.
>
>[color=green]
>> Plus I do get confused and ...[/color]
>
> Tell me about it !!! Here I there have to juggle 3 different speech
> apps, Dragon, Vista, MacSpeech, not easy 'cause I am 99%
> senile, at 80 years old.
>
> Plus my false teeth jump out of my mouth occassionally,
> so I wind up chasing them around the floor while they are
> still jabbering away. Not a pretty sight.
>
>
> 'Nuther thing to keep in mind is the "glitz" of this technology
> which is what sucked you in. That fascination value could be
> used to intrigue your students, also.
>
> As a teacher, you know that what you teach today will likely
> be of little use to your students when they adopt newer
> technologies during their lifetime, however when they
> get exposed to speech stuff, they will be a leg up on others,
> later in their life. (Star-Trek reasoning)<g>
>
> Here in the backward colonies of the USA, only 7% of US
> hospitals use modern speech technology, because the
> physicians were never exposed to it during their schooling,
> therefore are biased and scared to death about it.
>
> Not at all unusual to see a doctor hammering away with a
> chisel on a stone tablet here in the good old USA.
>
> The doctors here _try_ to remember important details
> about each patient, but memory is fickle.
>
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>> > So nowadays, I have no problem speaking at a fast rate
>> > of 336 wpm and have my computer understand each and
>> > every word.[/color]
>>
>> Gosh, really? That is fast. How long did it take you to
>> dictate that fast?[/color]
>
> Not really all that difficult for you. Try speaking the
> 16 words "Now is the time..." etc in under 3 seconds.
>
> That is 320 wpm.
>
> If you can do it in under 2 seconds, it is 480 wpm.
>
> My accuracy fell off if I spoke faster than 336 wpm.
>
> Don't waste time breathing, just keep your oxygen
> bottle handy. <g>
>
>[color=green]
>> Do you use it for work in some capacity?[/color]
>
> Naw, just a fun thing.
>
> Lemme tell you though, it was downright frustrating
> for me to dictate for a full 60 seconds, without *ANY*
> words appearing on my screen!
>
> At the end of 60 seconds, when I stopped for a breath,
> all 336 words jumped onto my screen at once.
>
> (21 repititions of that 16-word sentence)
>
>[color=green]
>> One thing I have noticed with Dragon, as I am dictating
>> the words, there is a slight delay before the word's
>> appear On The Screen. Do you just carry on
>> dictating and not worry about this delay?[/color]
>
> Yep. The computer, of necessity, has to wait for you to
> complete an "utterance", before it can figure out what you
> said, then display those words on your screen.
>
> In other words, if I dictated:
>
> "My two dollar tutu is too tight to wear, my other tutu
> was 2 point 2"
>
> I know, that sentence does not make sense, but I am just
> using it to demonstrate a point.
>
> It should, and does, print on my screen this result:
>
> My two dollar tutu is too tight to wear,
> my other tutu was 2.2
>
> Why? Because I trained it that way. (in Dragon)
>
> It has to patiently wait for me to finish talking,
> before it can figure out which "to" is which, THEN
> display the results on my screen.
>
>
> Play with Dragon, keep the upgrade date in mind, you can
> always revert to Vista Speech if Dragon is not your cup of tea.
>
> Don't allow this junk to overwhelm you, just delve into it
> a bit at a time, when you are in the mood. :)
>
> Mark-[/color]

"Charlie Tame" wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
>>Marty Markoe wrote:
>>See the WSRToolkit at:
> > [url]http://www.mymsspeech.com/microphones/prod_details.asp?subCatID=71&prodID=228[/url][/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> But that is not part of Vista so if people don't know about it they will
> only see the OS as it stands...[/color]

That is why we keep mentioning it. :-)

I've had a continuing speech recognition business since the beginning of
1994 when I became an IBM business partner for speech recognition. We
started out with the IBM Personal Dictation System, a discreet speech
software where you had to speak like Robby the robot. We migrated to
ViaVoice and Dragon Naturally Speaking over the years.

I still get a thrill seeing the words appear on screen like magic. This is
why we invested thousands of dollars to develop the WSRToolkit. We have kept
the cost of the WSRToolkit reasonable at $15.99. A customer, Al Morales wrote
and said, "The WSRToolkit is the best software value ever in 25 years using
computers." The WSRToolkit adds seven functions you expect to see in a mature
speech recognition software. This includes:

1. Text Macros - easily create boilerplate macros that inserts blocks of
text at a single voice command. For example, at the end of my letters I say,
"Sign off," and my name, company name and web site are inserted.
2. Command Macros allow you create step by step macros that utilize keyboard
combinations. For example, I say, "Import Orders" and the macro executes
Alt+f for the file menu, then "U" for Utilities, then "I" for Import etc.

3. The Macro Editor window allows editing or creating script macros

4. Train From Text allows you to select the text of your choosing and read
it to the system. This trains the 'Acoustic Model' of your speech profile to
make it more likely your words will appear according to your style of
speaking.

5. Add To Dictionary provides an easy way to add words or phrases to your
personal speech dictionary

6. Add From File parses personal MS-Word and Text documents of your choosing
to increase dictation accuracy.

7. Transcription reads your wave (.WAV) file from a digital recorder and
transcribes it to text.

Marty Markoe, eMicrophones, Inc.

On Fri, 01 May 2009 05:19:04 -0700, Mark Conrad wrote:
[color=blue]
> In article <1actdow7yv0wj.lsn7fqt070xa$.dlg@40tude.net>, Gene E. Bloch
> <not-me@other.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I have enjoyed your encouragement of Wendy.
>> I wish her good luck as well[/color]
>
> Thanks, speech recognition apps are kind of rough
> for new users, hope she does not get overwhelmed.
>[color=green]
>> BTW - I don't use speech-to-text at all, but a friend of mine
>> needs it because of repetitive motion problems, so I'm
>> interested by proxy, and have been lurking in this thread.[/color]
>
> Well, both of the Windows speech apps are good for that sort of
> thing, both the free Vista speech app that is part of Vista, and
> the $200 commercial "Dragon Preferred" app that Wendy has.
>
> The free Vista speech app is simplier for newbies to learn,
> but that simplicity comes comes with a hidden drawback.
>
> Dragon is much more "mature" and flexible, particularly if
> your friend becomes interested in speech recognition after his
> hands heal up.[/color]

1. He has used Dragon for years. He loves it. Also, he's very smart and
techie, so he has no trouble with new versions.

2. His hands aren't going to heal up enough to obviate the need for speech
recognition. Luckily, he's able to use his hands for most purposes, but a
significant amount of typing isn't among the possibilities. He just
soldiers on, talking about how good Dragon is, rather than complaining
about having to use it.
[color=blue]
> Tough choice, each person has to "guess" how interested they
> will eventually become in the speech technology,
> and choose accordingly.
>
> Usually, most new users opt for the easier free Vista app, then
> they have trouble like Wendy is having, in learning Dragon.
>
> I was lucky, I started with Dragon, so did not have to make
> the somewhat painful switch to Dragon later.
>
> Mark-[/color]


--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

"Come, join the evil empire" and all the time your real self was
saying no, I want Linux...

Actually Charlie I was referring to the last sentence in your post.


--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:ONe2kcbyJHA.480@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Not sure what you answered there, don't recall mentioning Linux but never
> mind. I find that there are similarities with Windows in that a simple
> clean system like Debian is very stable while the more you add to it
> (Ubuntu for example) the more problems you can get. Obviously that's
> partly because you will be doing more with it, but also if you go adding
> applications like crazy just because they are there you will get some bad
> ones, again just like Windows.
>
> John Barnett MVP wrote:[color=green]
>> Actually Charlie I've tried the latest version of Linux. As always it was
>> uninstalled just as quickly and consigned to the recycle bin where it
>> belongs!
>>[/color][/color]