"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:eL2FqGQwJHA.1304@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> housetrained wrote:[color=green]
>> <bob@coolgroups.com> wrote in message
>> news:4e3f3128-0765-49ee-a128-628648d0f456@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...[color=darkred]
>>> Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
>>> complete system restore DVD?[/color]
>>
>> Yes. windows E - right click 'C' - properties - tools - backup - look in
>> left hand column - create image backup or words to that effect.[/color]
>
>
> Wrong. While that allows one to backup the files on the hard drive, it
> most definitely does not create anything remotely resembling a "complete
> system restore DVD."
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers
>
> Help us help you:
> [url]http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html[/url]
>
> [url]http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375[/url]
>
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
>
> Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand
> Russell
>
> The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
> killed a great many philosophers.
> ~ Denis Diderot[/color]

Bruce--

The priest would have killed less philosophers if they were a lot more
headsup, and Bertrand Russell would certainly have included this application
and screenshots in Principia Mathematica, if he had known two other
mathematicians named Gates and Ballmer (Harvard Math Prizes 1st and 2nd
place in between going to see "Singing in the Rain" off the Harvard campus.

It's right here:

[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16/[/url]

***In fact you can obtain a Startup Repair Disk from Vista SP1.*** Yes you
can!! Gosh darn it!! you betcha!!! And like ole Sarah whose state has a
billion dollar deficit she is ill-equipped to address, , you can "see it
from here." We've had this discussion at length last week, although I don't
think you or John were in on that particular thread. At the very least
Vista SP1 has an application or utility (call it whatever your fave
philosopher has shaped you to call it--MSFT calls it an application in the
System 32 folder--and it will make a Startup Repair Disk. What I"d
appreciate if you'd take a look and see for me because I no longer have any
of my boxes booting Vista--they all keep getting builds of Windows 7 and I
took my screenshots from Win 7, is if you go to Control Panel or Right Click
Computer in Vista>Backup>do you see the option to create a Startup Repair
Disk with the full panoply of Startup Repair menu options as I've shown on
my flickr pics?

The Win RE team also posted ways to install it in Vista back in 2006 and
2007. See Below:

[url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2007/01/12/how-to-install-winre-on-the-hard-disk.aspx[/url]

[url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2006/12/12/creating-winre-using-waik.aspxYes[/url] you can create a system repair disk in Vista, but they hid the way inVista SP1 and if you can find out from someone at Redmond why they pulled itoff the All Programs menu at the last minute and hid it in the System 32folder requiring one of two UAC/Security tab tweaks, I'd be interested inhearing. I definitely plan to reach out to some key people on the nowWindows 7 teams who make it, and Mr. Sinofsky to find out why they did sucha completely user unfriendly thing--they pulled the application which isreally recdisc.exe in the System 32 folder in Vista SP1 after getting somefeedback from some of us on the Vista Beta that they need to provide the WinRE/Startup Repair panoply of tools for easy access for the end user, almostall of whom do not receive a Vista DVD with the purchase of an OEM box.Lionell Manchaka blooged right here below that all Dell buyers would getone, but Dell has renigged and since Lionel is on Twitter @ Lionel at Dellhttp://twitter.com/Lionel@dell. Even Oprah can tweet so I expect I can, Iplan to tweet ole Lionel who is VP of Digital Media at Dell and ask himexactly why his promise was not kept. Oprah's getting her fan base to tweethas probably diluted the value of Twitter now, but that's for another timeand place. If you're in the UK I don't know if you see Oprah. She's Oprahthe Tweeter now.Lionel Manchaca's Broken Promise [url]http://direct2dell.org/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx[/url] Ask Lionel Manchaca why he broke the promise above [url]http://twitter.com/LionelatDellAt[/url] the very least in Vista, I know that this application/utility does lurkin Vista SP1 and later System 32, but in Vista you have to go to System 32and then you have to tweak it from the security tab so that you haveownership. Why Microsoft chose to jerk this from the All Programs Menuwhere it lived in Beta interim builds of Vista SP1 and hide it in the System32 folder on RTM is a very good question--not to my philosophy (or BertrandRussell and Alfred North Whitehead's very user friendly. That is, I don'tsee red headed Lauren or the cute kids in the MSFT "I'm a PC--not kuellenough for a Mac or affluent enough) finding this in the System 32 folder.Since many useful tools or there, I always make it a point to go there andlook in each new build of the Win OS I get my hands on.I suspect MSFT decided to make this hard to find in Vista SP1 because theyfeared they would not sell enough retail Vista DVDs. I am trying to findout from assorted members of the storage team, Mr. Sinofsky, and some otherpeople at Redmond.They sure put it back in 4 locations in Windows 7 however, at least in thelatest builds and I screenshot it above:1) On the All Programs Menu2) At the Control Panel>Backup and Restore>Create a System Repair Disk3) Right click Computer on the Start Menu>Backup and Restore>Create a SystemRepair Disk4) In the C:\Windows\System 32 folder. Of course if you are multibooting,the drive letter may change accordingly but it is absolutely there I know inVista, just as I screenshot it below. I don't have my hands on a Vista boxthis moment, to look at Control Panel Backup, or Rt. click Computer andlook for it, so I'd appreciate it if you'd do that for me.At Vista in the System 32 folder you find recdisc.exe and tweak its securityeither of a couple ways--and here I wonder since MSFT did deposit it in thisnon-intuitive location for the eight year olds in their commercials why theydidn't at least alpha test it and realize that they were making it requiresecurity tab tweaks (I mean after all, they did have about 23 or so Vistabeta builds, so that would imply they could test the thing at least onceduring the Beta of Vista SP1. This makes the claim that obsessive testingand meticulous bug reporting and more testing is done a bit disingenuous atleast for this particular feature. People must have let them know about itas they craft Windows 7. I hope to make sure it stays in Windows 7 at alllocations. It no longer has a UAC tweak requirement. If you're using VistaSP1 the UAC tweak at System 32 recdisc.exe is:Right click Properties>security tab>edit>put a check in allboxes>close>reopen and you should be good to go.orRight click Properties>security tab>Advanced button>Ownertab>edit button>put a check in "replace subcontainers and objects">otherusers button>type user name you want to have the perimission in the box orsimply "users">ok>apply>ok on the advanced security settings dialogue box.That's why I just wrote:It's right here:[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16/Actually[/url] "it" absolutely does create a System Restore DVD ultimatelybecause it has the option besides backup to create a system repair dvd whichis in fact, a Startup Repair DVD and System Restore is one of the optionsthere if you have a restore point. If you have a dual boot or multiboot,and you boot to the other drive, you will lose restore points so you have tobe careful to go back and setup at least one in that case.But the wording is different in the left hand pane.1) What you do is click "Backup and Restore" or you can reach it at theControl Panel as well>in the left hand pane under Control Panel Home whichis going to be there from either location click the second listedoption>Create a System Repair Disk.2) I'm operating in Windows 7. In Vista SP1 RTM this option was supposed tobe on All Programs by clicking Maintenance and at the last second MFST(probably their marketing or business arm) had it jerked from the RTM on theAll Programs menu. I don't know if Vista RTM SP1 RTM option has this atBackup, but I do know that it has this application /utility present for surein the C:\Windows\System32 folder and after a UAC/Security tab tweak afterright clicking the app in the System32 folder>properties>security tab to getfull admin privileges it's usable in Vista SP1.3) If the OP doesn't want to take the 3 minutes to do the security tab tweakin Vista SP1, he can simply download the .iso from the link below and trythe System Restore option from Startup Repair's Advanced option list or hecan try the options I've listed below the link:Download Vista Repair Diskhttp://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/1) First try 3 options from Startup Repair. If you have a Vista DVD thenrestart with it in the drive>press any key to boot from it and run StartupRepair. From Startup Repair you have 3 good tools with an excellent chanceof fixing your system. If you don't have a Vista DVD from which to boot toStartup Repair, no problem, Download the .iso from the link below andburn it, and you'll have the Microsoft Vista Repair Disk with StartupRepair.Download Vista Repair Diskhttp://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/How to Use Startup Repair from the Vista DVD or the Repair Disk you make:[url]http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial142.htmlhttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/5c59f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx2[/url]) If Startup Repair does not get your Vista back, then use the 3 bootreccommands from the command prompt available on the Statup Repair Menu:The menu I refer to is in this set of directions with a grey background.[url]http://vistahomepremium.windowsreinstall.com/repairstartup/repairstartup.htmThose[/url] are:bootrec /fixmbrbootrec /fixbootbootrec /rebuild BCD3) If my second option doesn't work, then try System restore from theStartup Repair list.4) If by rare chance you have an actual Vista DVD, you can put it in, bootfrom it>choose the Upgrade Option>choose your current broken Vista Drive andtry to do a repair install with the Vista DVD.How To Perform a Repair Installation For Vistahttp://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88236-repair-install-vista.html5) If the above 3 tools don't work, then use the 4 tools available byrestarting your pc and tapping F8 once per second to get to the WindowsAdvanced Options Menu.From this menu click on 3 Safe Mode links to use System Restore. Make sureyou try all 3 if one doesn't work, because just one of them may work.Tap F8 to Reach Windows Advanced Options Menu Pictured Below:[url]http://media.photobucket.com/image/vista%20windows%20advanced%20options%20menu/indyank/techbliss/Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options.jpgSafe[/url] ModeSafe Mode with NetworkingSafe Mode with Command: At the prompt you would type the command to useforsystem restore at the safe mode cmd prompt is:%systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exeIf these 3 tools don't work, you have one more you can try which is LastKnown Good Configuration.Good luck,CH

Yes Dave but 7077 is a leaked build not support by Microsoft (unless you are
one of the privileged developer's). I agree Windows 7 'Ultimate' does have
these facilities as does Vista Ultimate (with the exception of a system
repair disc) but it is not saying that entry level versions will be the
same.

Most users won't even buy Windows 7 Ultimate and OEMs will certainly not put
Ultimate on entry level machines.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Dave" <Dave@beepbeepbeepbeep.com> wrote in message
news:#IACD1SwJHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> The Windows 7 I'm testing (build 7077 Ultimate) has an option to "Create a
> system image" (to another drive, to DVDs or to a network location).
> You can also "Create a system repair disc", which will allow you to boot
> up and restore the above image.
> I used it on one of my PCs and it worked very well.
> It may not come on all versions, though.
>
>
> --
> Windows 7 beta
> [url]http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview[/url]
> [url]http://download.live.com/wlmail[/url]
>
>
> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:OGi7JtSwJHA.956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Not at the moment it doesn't Canuk57, and as Windows 7 is now feature
>> complete I doubt that it will.
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> John Barnett MVP
>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>
>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>>
>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
>> for
>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
>> the
>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
>> mail/post..
>>
>>
>> "Canuck57" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:vwJGl.52202$%k2.39046@newsfe07.iad...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:%237%23VSaOwJHA.3832@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> You can't create system restore DVDs in either Vista or XP. You can
>>>> 'image' your hard drive so that you can re-install everything simply by
>>>> inserting a backup DVD but this requires third party software such as
>>>> Acronis True Image. Vista Ultimate does have Complete PC Backup
>>>> software but it isn't something I would trust.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Win 7 will come with the ability to fully recover so this
>>> sore point will be addressed.
>>>
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Barnett MVP
>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>>>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>>>
>>>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>>>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>>>>
>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
>>>> any
>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be
>>>> liable for
>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out
>>>> of the
>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
>>>> mail/post..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <bob@coolgroups.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4e3f3128-0765-49ee-a128-628648d0f456@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
>>>>> complete system restore DVD?
>>>>
>>>
>>>[/color][/color][/color]

Hi Chad,

There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2. If I
right click computer I don't see any 'backup' option. Besides the option in
Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is not a system restore recover
which is what the OP asked for. There is a big difference between being able
to simply repair startup problems and completely restoring your system from
a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup having used it I wouldn't trust
it as far as I could throw it, the **** thing is too temperamental.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
news:ODry0GUwJHA.5708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
>
> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:OGi7JtSwJHA.956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Not at the moment it doesn't Canuk57, and as Windows 7 is now feature
>> complete I doubt that it will.
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> John Barnett MVP
>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>
>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>>
>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
>> for
>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
>> the
>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
>> mail/post..
>>
>>
>> "Canuck57" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:vwJGl.52202$%k2.39046@newsfe07.iad...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:%237%23VSaOwJHA.3832@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>> You can't create system restore DVDs in either Vista or XP. You can
>>>> 'image' your hard drive so that you can re-install everything simply by
>>>> inserting a backup DVD but this requires third party software such as
>>>> Acronis True Image. Vista Ultimate does have Complete PC Backup
>>>> software but it isn't something I would trust.
>>>
>>> I wonder if Win 7 will come with the ability to fully recover so this
>>> sore point will be addressed.
>>>
>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Barnett MVP
>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>>>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>>>
>>>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>>>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>>>>
>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
>>>> any
>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be
>>>> liable for
>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out
>>>> of the
>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
>>>> mail/post..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <bob@coolgroups.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:4e3f3128-0765-49ee-a128-628648d0f456@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
>>>>> complete system restore DVD?[/color][/color]
>
> Hi John--
>
>
> It's right here:
>
> [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16/[/url]
>
> Win 7 has had this feature at 4 locations in every build since December
> through right now. I don't expect them to remove it, and I'm trying to
> get confirmation from the teams involved and Mr. Sinofsky that they won't.
> I don't see them screwing up the way they did when they hid it and
> required a UAC tweak when they buried it where you haven't found it until
> now at System 32 as recdisc.exe.
>
> We've had this discussion at length last week, although I don't think you
> or John were in on that particular thread. At the very least Vista SP1
> has an application or utility (call it whatever your fave philosopher has
> shaped you to call it--MSFT calls it an application in the System 32
> folder--and it will make a Startup Repair Disk. What I"d appreciate if
> you'd take a look and see for me because I no longer have any of my boxes
> booting Vista--they all keep getting builds of Windows 7 and I took my
> screenshots from Win 7, is if you go to Control Panel or Right Click
> Computer in Vista>Backup>do you see the option to create a Startup Repair
> Disk with the full panoply of Startup Repair menu options as I've shown on
> my flickr pics?
>
> Why in fact, Microsoft pulled it off the All Programs menu where many of
> their current MVPs who are Desktop MVPs and Shell MVPs can't locate it and
> didn't know it was there until we are trying to educate them about it is a
> good question I plan to ask some key people since finding out the answer
> is more fun than the Amazing Race although not as lucrative and scenic.
> Also if Microsoft did choose to bury it in the System 32 folder and it
> doesn't take any Blue Badge unhide tweaks to use it, why they went for
> months without discovering it needed UAC/permission tweaks is with all
> respect due, a colossal screwup in the Beta and the testing by the team
> members involved in making it. See Below:
>
> Yes you can create a system repair disk in Vista, but they hid the way in
> Vista SP1 and if you can find out from someone at Redmond why they pulled
> it off the All Programs menu at the last minute and hid it in the System
> 32 folder requiring one of two UAC/Security tab tweaks, I'd be interested
> in hearing. I definitely plan to reach out to some key people on the now
> Windows 7 teams who make it, and Mr. Sinofsky to find out why they did
> such a completely user unfriendly thing--they pulled the application which
> is really recdisc.exe in the System 32 folder in Vista SP1 after getting
> some feedback from some of us on the Vista Beta that they need to provide
> the Win RE/Startup Repair panoply of tools for easy access for the end
> user, almost all of whom do not receive a Vista DVD with the purchase of
> an OEM box. Lionell Manchaka blooged right here below that all Dell buyers
> would get one, but Dell has renigged and since Lionel is on Twitter @
> Lionel at Dell [url]http://twitter.com/Lionel@dell[/url]. Even Oprah can tweet so I
> expect I can, I plan to tweet ole Lionel who is VP of Digital Media at
> Dell and ask him exactly why his promise was not kept. Oprah's getting
> her fan base to tweet has probably diluted the value of Twitter now, but
> that's for another time and place. If you're in the UK I don't know if
> you see Oprah. She's Oprah the Tweeter now.
>
> Lionel Manchaca's Broken Promise
> [url]http://direct2dell.org/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx[/url]
>
> Ask Lionel Manchaca why he broke the promise above
> [url]http://twitter.com/LionelatDell[/url]
>
> The Win RE team also posted ways to install it in Vista back in 2006 and
> 2007. See Below:
>
> [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2007/01/12/how-to-install-winre-on-the-hard-disk.aspx[/url]
>
> [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2006/12/12/creating-winre-using-waik.aspxIt's[/url]
> not in XP. It's in Vista SP1 ridiculously and non-intuitively locatedin
> System 32 pulled from the SP1 Beta where it was conveniently located onthe
> All Programs Menu and it's in every build of Windows 7 to this moment.I'll
> show you this below.Why in fact, Microsoft pulled it off the All Programs
> menu where many oftheir current MVPs who are Desktop MVPs and Shell MVPs
> can't locate it anddidn't know it was there until we are trying to educate
> them about it is agood question I plan to ask some key people since
> finding out the answer ismore fun than the Amazing Race although not as
> lucrative and scenic. Alsoif Microsoft did choose to bury it in the
> System 32 folder and it doesn'ttake any Blue Badge unhide tweaks to use
> it, why they went for monthswithout discovering it needed UAC/permission
> tweaks is with all respect due,a colossal screwup in the Beta and the
> testing by the team members involvedin making it. See Below:The Win RE
> team also posted ways to install it in Vista back in 2006 and2007. See
> Below:[url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2007/01/12/how-to-install-winre-on-the-hard-disk.aspx[/url]
> [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2006/12/12/creating-winre-using-waik.aspxAt[/url]
> the very least in Vista, I know that this application/utility does lurkin
> Vista SP1 and later System 32, but in Vista you have to go to System 32and
> then you have to tweak it from the security tab so that you haveownership.
> Why Microsoft chose to jerk this from the All Programs Menuwhere it lived
> in Beta interim builds of Vista SP1 and hide it in the System32 folder on
> RTM is a very good question--not to my philosophy (or BertrandRussell and
> Alfred North Whitehead's very user friendly. That is, I don'tsee red
> headed Lauren or the cute kids in the MSFT "I'm a PC--not kuellenough for
> a Mac or affluent enough) finding this in the System 32 folder.Since many
> useful tools or there, I always make it a point to go there andlook in
> each new build of the Win OS I get my hands on.I suspect MSFT decided to
> make this hard to find in Vista SP1 because theyfeared they would not sell
> enough retail Vista DVDs. I am trying to findout from assorted members of
> the storage team, Mr. Sinofsky, and some otherpeople at Redmond.They sure
> put it back in 4 locations in Windows 7 however, at least in thelatest
> builds and I screenshot it above:1) On the All Programs Menu2) At the
> Control Panel>Backup and Restore>Create a System Repair Disk3) Right click
> Computer on the Start Menu>Backup and Restore>Create a SystemRepair Disk4)
> In the C:\Windows\System 32 folder. Of course if you are multibooting,the
> drive letter may change accordingly but it is absolutely there I know
> inVista, just as I screenshot it below. I don't have my hands on a Vista
> boxthis moment, to look at Control Panel Backup, or Rt. click Computer
> andlook for it, so I'd appreciate it if you'd do that for me.At Vista in
> the System 32 folder you find recdisc.exe and tweak its securityeither of
> a couple ways--and here I wonder since MSFT did deposit it in
> thisnon-intuitive location for the eight year olds in their commercials
> why theydidn't at least alpha test it and realize that they were making it
> requiresecurity tab tweaks (I mean after all, they did have about 23 or so
> Vistabeta builds, so that would imply they could test the thing at least
> onceduring the Beta of Vista SP1. This makes the claim that obsessive
> testingand meticulous bug reporting and more testing is done a bit
> disingenuous atleast for this particular feature. People must have let
> them know about itas they craft Windows 7. I hope to make sure it stays
> in Windows 7 at alllocations. It no longer has a UAC tweak requirement.
> If you're using VistaSP1 the UAC tweak at System 32 recdisc.exe is:Right
> click Properties>security tab>edit>put a check in allboxes>close>reopen
> and you should be good to go.orRight click Properties>security
> tab>Advanced button>Ownertab>edit button>put a check in "replace
> subcontainers and objects">otherusers button>type user name you want to
> have the perimission in the box orsimply "users">ok>apply>ok on the
> advanced security settings dialogue box.That's why I just wrote:It's
> right here:[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16/Actually[/url] "it"
> absolutely does create a System Restore DVD ultimatelybecause it has the
> option besides backup to create a system repair dvd whichis in fact, a
> Startup Repair DVD and System Restore is one of the optionsthere if you
> have a restore point. If you have a dual boot or multiboot,and you boot
> to the other drive, you will lose restore points so you have tobe careful
> to go back and setup at least one in that case.But the wording is
> different in the left hand pane.1) What you do is click "Backup and
> Restore" or you can reach it at theControl Panel as well>in the left hand
> pane under Control Panel Home whichis going to be there from either
> location click the second listedoption>Create a System Repair Disk.2) I'm
> operating in Windows 7. In Vista SP1 RTM this option was supposed tobe on
> All Programs by clicking Maintenance and at the last second MFST(probably
> their marketing or business arm) had it jerked from the RTM on theAll
> Programs menu. I don't know if Vista RTM SP1 RTM option has this
> atBackup, but I do know that it has this application /utility present for
> surein the C:\Windows\System32 folder and after a UAC/Security tab tweak
> afterright clicking the app in the System32 folder>properties>security tab
> to getfull admin privileges it's usable in Vista SP1.3) If the OP doesn't
> want to take the 3 minutes to do the security tab tweakin Vista SP1, he
> can simply download the .iso from the link below and trythe System Restore
> option from Startup Repair's Advanced option list or hecan try the options
> I've listed below the link:Download Vista Repair
> Diskhttp://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/1)
> First try 3 options from Startup Repair. If you have a Vista DVD
> thenrestart with it in the drive>press any key to boot from it and run
> StartupRepair. From Startup Repair you have 3 good tools with an
> excellent chanceof fixing your system. If you don't have a Vista DVD from
> which to boot toStartup Repair, no problem, Download the .iso from the
> link below andburn it, and you'll have the Microsoft Vista Repair Disk
> with StartupRepair.Download Vista Repair
> Diskhttp://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/How
> to Use Startup Repair from the Vista DVD or the Repair Disk you
> make:[url]http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial142.htmlhttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/5c59f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx2[/url])
> If Startup Repair does not get your Vista back, then use the 3
> bootreccommands from the command prompt available on the Statup Repair
> Menu:The menu I refer to is in this set of directions with a grey
> background.[url]http://vistahomepremium.windowsreinstall.com/repairstartup/repairstartup.htmThose[/url]
> are:bootrec /fixmbrbootrec /fixbootbootrec /rebuild BCD3) If my second
> option doesn't work, then try System restore from theStartup Repair
> list.4) If by rare chance you have an actual Vista DVD, you can put it in,
> bootfrom it>choose the Upgrade Option>choose your current broken Vista
> Drive andtry to do a repair install with the Vista DVD.How To Perform a
> Repair Installation For
> Vistahttp://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88236-repair-install-vista.html5)
> If the above 3 tools don't work, then use the 4 tools available
> byrestarting your pc and tapping F8 once per second to get to the
> WindowsAdvanced Options Menu.From this menu click on 3 Safe Mode links to
> use System Restore. Make sureyou try all 3 if one doesn't work, because
> just one of them may work.Tap F8 to Reach Windows Advanced Options Menu
> Pictured
> Below:[url]http://media.photobucket.com/image/vista%20windows%20advanced%20options%20menu/indyank/techbliss/Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options.jpgSafe[/url]
> ModeSafe Mode with NetworkingSafe Mode with Command: At the prompt you
> would type the command to useforsystem restore at the safe mode cmd prompt
> is:%systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exeIf these 3 tools don't work,
> you have one more you can try which is LastKnown Good Configuration.Good
> luck,CH[/color]

"John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:OxmzIjUwJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Hi Chad,
>
> There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2. If
> I right click computer I don't see any 'backup' option. Besides the option
> in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is not a system restore
> recover which is what the OP asked for. There is a big difference between
> being able to simply repair startup problems and completely restoring your
> system from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup having used it I
> wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, the **** thing is too
> temperamental.
>
> --
>
> --
> John Barnett MVP
> Windows XP Associate Expert
> Windows Desktop Experience
>
> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url][/color]


Hi John--

What exactly do you mean?

"There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2."

There's absolutely the ability to make a Repair Disk and it's located in
your C:\Windows System32 folder. Have a look there. It's called
recdisc.exe. If they made the mistake they made when they hid it in SP1, it
requires a UAC/permissions tweak I outlined in my previous posts on this
thread. It doesn't require that tweak at any of its 5 locations in Windows
7.

Those 4 locations are:

1) Control Panel>Click Backup and Restore
2) Computer>Right Click>the operating system drive>properties>tools>backup
now and you get exactly what I screenshot
3) All Programs>Maintenance>Create a System Repair Disc "Creates a disc you
can use to access system recovery options." Those are MSFT's words when
you mouse over that location.
4) Recdisc.exe located in the System 32 folder. In Windows 7 all builds, it
doesn't require a UAC tweak as it crazily does in Vista SP1 and Vista SP2.

"There is a big difference between being able[color=blue]
> to simply repair startup problems and completely restoring your system
> from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup having used it I
> wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, the **** thing is too
> temperamental."[/color]

I wouldn't trust any of the MSFT backups in Vista or Windows 7 but I would
trust this particular application from the backup team to make a Startup
Repair disk from which SR can be accessed if you've made and maintained a
restore point or points.

The reason I wouldn't trust them is that too many users can't recover the
backup from its compression files despite the elegances with which the Bacup
and Restore team continues to attempt to describe their work. I agree with
you they don't work. The best way to backup is to media because then the
files and folders mean what you see is what you get.

And hard drives can and do fail. External hard drives can and do corrupt
and recovery of them is on the average $1600 in the U.S.

I don't know if they left this out of some of their less expensive editions,
because I don't have them to look at. The Windows 7 I screenshot all 4
locations in is "Ultimate." From what I'm looking at on websites including
Microsoft Press Pass Ultimate will remain available as RTM, along with other
editions, and I expect them all to have this feature.

[url]http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03Win7SKU-QA.mspx[/url]

The OP's question was and I quote:

"Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
complete system restore DVD?"

I'd consider the ability to make a genuine Startup Repair Disc a "utility"
and Microsoft absolutely did build it into Vista SP1 and later although they
Easter Egg hid it and no one here has come up with an explanation as to
exactly why they played that non-intuintive game.

The startup repair disc has the ability to do a system restore. It
mistakenly has a link that allows someone supposedly to create a restore
point and when you click that link it says since this is a lower level
environment you can't do that.

And no one on the System Restore team parses system restore as a "complete
system restore" and an "incomplete." Do you mind explaining why you're
parsing it?

And since the OP was so terse, we don't know exactly what he was trying to
fix if anything or if he was idly asking the question because
[email]Bob@coolgroups.com[/email] hasn't elaborated his one sentence question, nor has he
commented as a followup.

System Restore is a registry snapshot, and system restore is system
restore. I'd be delighted for you to tell me why in the world you're
attempting to parse system restore as a System Restore DVD and tell me that
there is a difference from the System Restore available in the places where
I said it is--

From recdisc.exe in Vista SP1 and Vista SP2 in the C:\Windows\System32
folder or if someone has multiple boots, we both know that drive letter
could change.
It is available in no less than 5 locations in every build of Windows 7
through 7106 at the five locations I've screenshot. You don't think I "photo
shopped" 'em do ya? Here they are again for you viewing pleasure.

Windows 7 has the ability to make a startup repair disc with system restore
(the only one Microsoft makes) on it.

"Besides the option in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is not
a system restore recover which is what the OP asked for."

This is what the OP asked for because it's a quote of his one sentence
question:

"Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
complete system restore DVD?"

Windows 7 has 5 locations from which to do a system restore by making a
repair disc.

I'm going to quote you exactly what MSFT says it is when you mouse over its
location

"Create a System Repair Disc. Creates a disc where you can access your
recovery options." This is a quote from the mousing over a click of
Maintenance on the All Programs Menu of Windows 7. It is accessing the same
application that you have in every Vista SP1 or later at your
C:\Windows\System32 folder. Go have a look.
John--whatever does this mean? A system restore recover is a system restore
recover when it comes from the boys and girls on the System Restore team.
Ask the individuals on the Complete PC Backup and System Restore team if you
don't believe your eyes and my screenshots.

And as I screenshot in Windows 7 the latest build, it is at 5 locations.

It has system restore on it. And last time I checked, the Windows XP,
Vista, and Windows 7 F8 aka Windows Advanced Options Menu have 3 safe modes
from which a system restore can be accessed and sometimes as not enough
people realize, one system restore access will work when others don't.

It absolutely ******is***** John and I have screenshot it and if you like
I'll screenshot the actual steps using it. It gives you this which is
MSFT's panoply of Startup Repair Advanced Menu options (Microsoft's own
exact words when you get there) INCLUDING SYSTEM RESTORE.

Go to System 32 and you'll see it smiling at John.

And take one of your Win 7 boots and builds, I don't care which one through
7106, and you will see it in FIVE I said (5) locations fully functional
without the screwup that requires UAC tweaking as I explained to you in
detail that they released in Vista SP1 and SP2 at System 32. Again that's
recdisc.exe and it's on all your boxes there.

I don't know if Vista SP2 ridiculously (because of inattention to how it
worked while Beta testing) requires a permissions tweak. I do know that
none of your Windows 7 builds does.

I beg to differ. I've tried it in every build. I don't think you have. It
is precisely what the OP asked for and it includes the System Restore option
from a DVD or if you download from the link I gave you, it would fit on a CD
to be literal that MSFT provides in Startup Repair. Don't let the word
"recovery" fool you and anyway that's your word. I'd prefer you did not use
it, because it evokes the erratic OEM recovery disks. Microsoft, the people
who make windows, calls it a System Repair Disk Creates a System

I represented that behind the backup option at Control Panel is an option I
the left task pane to create a Startup Repair disk which includes a System
Restore link. I also represented that 3 Separate System Restore options are
available as you know well at the Windows Advanced Options Menu where they
have been for many years. They were there in XP at the Win Advanced Options
Menu, and I expect in Win 2K and I'm not sure about Win NT but probably not
then.

I'm glad you confirm if you looked at the Control Panel, and at Computer
that it not on Vista SP2 and I suppose SP1. It is on every official
launched from Redmond via FTP server available in every single build of Win
7 through Build 7106. It is at all 5 locations in Windows 7 every build
to this minute. I can't imagine they'll pull it.

As far as making predictions of what MSFT will do in RTM, I don't predict
their behavior from day to day because they often change their minds--you
can see that they did that in Beta Vista SP1 where they intentionally for
whatever rationale in the world, made it difficult for people to find
recdisc.exe in the System 32 folder of that OS. My point is proved, because
they made it so difficult, than a number of MVPs didn't know it was there,
didn't know what it does, and apparently still can't find it. It's listed
under "r" for recdisc.

However, if you go to you System32 folder, I will bet that recdisc.exe
which gives the full panoply of Startup Repair features, including System
restore, is there.

I'll summarizes what I wrote and anytime you want to explain to me why MSFT
pulled the ability to make a repair disc with the FULL PANOPLY OF STARTUP
REPAIR MENU ON IT, I can't wait. But you don't know. I understand in more
detail than I want to the sausage making of Beta interim builds and every
thing I am saying I have confirmed for Official MSFT Beta builds up through
7106. Ask 'em if you think I'm kiddin', and I'd be delighted to provide you
a list of names.

System Restore is absolutely an option and part of Startup Repair which I
think your website references, although it is one of the options for system
restore, as I pointed out, 3 others being located at F8 as well as Last
Known Good

Further, if the OP follows my regiment for the five tools I enumerated, he
will be able to fix his Vista if that's why he asked the question. The why
is hard to tell since he didn't say why.

CH

"John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:OxmzIjUwJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Hi Chad,
>
> There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2. If
> I right click computer I don't see any 'backup' option. Besides the option
> in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is not a system restore
> recover which is what the OP asked for. There is a big difference between
> being able to simply repair startup problems and completely restoring your
> system from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup having used it I
> wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, the **** thing is too
> temperamental.[/color]


Hi John--

The best way to backup is definitely to burn files and folders to media
IMHO. Here are screen shots of the 4 locations in Windows 7, and one of
them is present in Vista SP1 and Vista SP2 in the System32 folder as
recdisc.exe. It will create a Repair Disc when clicked that has the full
panoply of Startup Repair.

[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16[/url]

These locations can make a disk that accesses this:

[url]http://www.windowsreinstall.com/winvista/images/repair/staruprepair/Image17.gif[/url]

Best, CH

- John Barnett MVP[color=blue]
> Windows XP Associate Expert
> Windows Desktop Experience
>
> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>
> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
> for
> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
> the
> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
> mail/post..
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
> news:ODry0GUwJHA.5708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>
>>
>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:OGi7JtSwJHA.956@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Not at the moment it doesn't Canuk57, and as Windows 7 is now feature
>>> complete I doubt that it will.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Barnett MVP
>>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>>
>>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>>>
>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
>>> any
>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
>>> for
>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
>>> the
>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
>>> mail/post..
>>>
>>>
>>> "Canuck57" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vwJGl.52202$%k2.39046@newsfe07.iad...
>>>>
>>>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:%237%23VSaOwJHA.3832@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> You can't create system restore DVDs in either Vista or XP. You can
>>>>> 'image' your hard drive so that you can re-install everything simply
>>>>> by inserting a backup DVD but this requires third party software such
>>>>> as Acronis True Image. Vista Ultimate does have Complete PC Backup
>>>>> software but it isn't something I would trust.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if Win 7 will come with the ability to fully recover so this
>>>> sore point will be addressed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> John Barnett MVP
>>>>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>>>>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>>>>
>>>>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>>>>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>>>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>>>>>
>>>>> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of
>>>>> any
>>>>> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the
>>>>> accuracy,
>>>>> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be
>>>>> liable for
>>>>> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out
>>>>> of the
>>>>> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
>>>>> mail/post..
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <bob@coolgroups.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4e3f3128-0765-49ee-a128-628648d0f456@3g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
>>>>>> complete system restore DVD?[/color]
>>
>> Hi John--
>>
>>
>> It's right here:
>>
>> [url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16/[/url]
>>
>> Win 7 has had this feature at 4 locations in every build since December
>> through right now. I don't expect them to remove it, and I'm trying to
>> get confirmation from the teams involved and Mr. Sinofsky that they
>> won't. I don't see them screwing up the way they did when they hid it
>> and required a UAC tweak when they buried it where you haven't found it
>> until now at System 32 as recdisc.exe.
>>
>> We've had this discussion at length last week, although I don't think you
>> or John were in on that particular thread. At the very least Vista SP1
>> has an application or utility (call it whatever your fave philosopher has
>> shaped you to call it--MSFT calls it an application in the System 32
>> folder--and it will make a Startup Repair Disk. What I"d appreciate if
>> you'd take a look and see for me because I no longer have any of my boxes
>> booting Vista--they all keep getting builds of Windows 7 and I took my
>> screenshots from Win 7, is if you go to Control Panel or Right Click
>> Computer in Vista>Backup>do you see the option to create a Startup Repair
>> Disk with the full panoply of Startup Repair menu options as I've shown
>> on my flickr pics?
>>
>> Why in fact, Microsoft pulled it off the All Programs menu where many of
>> their current MVPs who are Desktop MVPs and Shell MVPs can't locate it
>> and didn't know it was there until we are trying to educate them about it
>> is a good question I plan to ask some key people since finding out the
>> answer is more fun than the Amazing Race although not as lucrative and
>> scenic. Also if Microsoft did choose to bury it in the System 32 folder
>> and it doesn't take any Blue Badge unhide tweaks to use it, why they went
>> for months without discovering it needed UAC/permission tweaks is with
>> all respect due, a colossal screwup in the Beta and the testing by the
>> team members involved in making it. See Below:
>>
>> Yes you can create a system repair disk in Vista, but they hid the way in
>> Vista SP1 and if you can find out from someone at Redmond why they pulled
>> it off the All Programs menu at the last minute and hid it in the System
>> 32 folder requiring one of two UAC/Security tab tweaks, I'd be interested
>> in hearing. I definitely plan to reach out to some key people on the now
>> Windows 7 teams who make it, and Mr. Sinofsky to find out why they did
>> such a completely user unfriendly thing--they pulled the application
>> which is really recdisc.exe in the System 32 folder in Vista SP1 after
>> getting some feedback from some of us on the Vista Beta that they need to
>> provide the Win RE/Startup Repair panoply of tools for easy access for
>> the end user, almost all of whom do not receive a Vista DVD with the
>> purchase of an OEM box. Lionell Manchaka blooged right here below that
>> all Dell buyers would get one, but Dell has renigged and since Lionel is
>> on Twitter @ Lionel at Dell [url]http://twitter.com/Lionel@dell[/url]. Even Oprah
>> can tweet so I expect I can, I plan to tweet ole Lionel who is VP of
>> Digital Media at Dell and ask him exactly why his promise was not kept.
>> Oprah's getting her fan base to tweet has probably diluted the value of
>> Twitter now, but that's for another time and place. If you're in the UK
>> I don't know if you see Oprah. She's Oprah the Tweeter now.
>>
>> Lionel Manchaca's Broken Promise
>> [url]http://direct2dell.org/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx[/url]
>>
>> Ask Lionel Manchaca why he broke the promise above
>> [url]http://twitter.com/LionelatDell[/url]
>>
>> The Win RE team also posted ways to install it in Vista back in 2006 and
>> 2007. See Below:
>>
>> [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2007/01/12/how-to-install-winre-on-the-hard-disk.aspx[/url]
>>
>> [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2006/12/12/creating-winre-using-waik.aspxIt's[/url]
>> not in XP. It's in Vista SP1 ridiculously and non-intuitively locatedin
>> System 32 pulled from the SP1 Beta where it was conveniently located
>> onthe All Programs Menu and it's in every build of Windows 7 to this
>> moment.I'll show you this below.Why in fact, Microsoft pulled it off the
>> All Programs menu where many oftheir current MVPs who are Desktop MVPs
>> and Shell MVPs can't locate it anddidn't know it was there until we are
>> trying to educate them about it is agood question I plan to ask some key
>> people since finding out the answer ismore fun than the Amazing Race
>> although not as lucrative and scenic. Alsoif Microsoft did choose to
>> bury it in the System 32 folder and it doesn'ttake any Blue Badge unhide
>> tweaks to use it, why they went for monthswithout discovering it needed
>> UAC/permission tweaks is with all respect due,a colossal screwup in the
>> Beta and the testing by the team members involvedin making it. See
>> Below:The Win RE team also posted ways to install it in Vista back in
>> 2006 and2007. See
>> Below:[url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2007/01/12/how-to-install-winre-on-the-hard-disk.aspx[/url]
>> [url]http://blogs.msdn.com/winre/archive/2006/12/12/creating-winre-using-waik.aspxAt[/url]
>> the very least in Vista, I know that this application/utility does lurkin
>> Vista SP1 and later System 32, but in Vista you have to go to System
>> 32and then you have to tweak it from the security tab so that you
>> haveownership. Why Microsoft chose to jerk this from the All Programs
>> Menuwhere it lived in Beta interim builds of Vista SP1 and hide it in the
>> System32 folder on RTM is a very good question--not to my philosophy (or
>> BertrandRussell and Alfred North Whitehead's very user friendly. That
>> is, I don'tsee red headed Lauren or the cute kids in the MSFT "I'm a
>> PC--not kuellenough for a Mac or affluent enough) finding this in the
>> System 32 folder.Since many useful tools or there, I always make it a
>> point to go there andlook in each new build of the Win OS I get my hands
>> on.I suspect MSFT decided to make this hard to find in Vista SP1 because
>> theyfeared they would not sell enough retail Vista DVDs. I am trying to
>> findout from assorted members of the storage team, Mr. Sinofsky, and some
>> otherpeople at Redmond.They sure put it back in 4 locations in Windows 7
>> however, at least in thelatest builds and I screenshot it above:1) On
>> the All Programs Menu2) At the Control Panel>Backup and Restore>Create a
>> System Repair Disk3) Right click Computer on the Start Menu>Backup and
>> Restore>Create a SystemRepair Disk4) In the C:\Windows\System 32 folder.
>> Of course if you are multibooting,the drive letter may change accordingly
>> but it is absolutely there I know inVista, just as I screenshot it below.
>> I don't have my hands on a Vista boxthis moment, to look at Control
>> Panel Backup, or Rt. click Computer andlook for it, so I'd appreciate it
>> if you'd do that for me.At Vista in the System 32 folder you find
>> recdisc.exe and tweak its securityeither of a couple ways--and here I
>> wonder since MSFT did deposit it in thisnon-intuitive location for the
>> eight year olds in their commercials why theydidn't at least alpha test
>> it and realize that they were making it requiresecurity tab tweaks (I
>> mean after all, they did have about 23 or so Vistabeta builds, so that
>> would imply they could test the thing at least onceduring the Beta of
>> Vista SP1. This makes the claim that obsessive testingand meticulous bug
>> reporting and more testing is done a bit disingenuous atleast for this
>> particular feature. People must have let them know about itas they craft
>> Windows 7. I hope to make sure it stays in Windows 7 at alllocations.
>> It no longer has a UAC tweak requirement. If you're using VistaSP1 the
>> UAC tweak at System 32 recdisc.exe is:Right click Properties>security
>> tab>edit>put a check in allboxes>close>reopen and you should be good to
>> go.orRight click Properties>security tab>Advanced button>Ownertab>edit
>> button>put a check in "replace subcontainers and objects">otherusers
>> button>type user name you want to have the perimission in the box
>> orsimply "users">ok>apply>ok on the advanced security settings dialogue
>> box.That's why I just wrote:It's right
>> here:[url]http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadharris16/Actually[/url] "it" absolutely
>> does create a System Restore DVD ultimatelybecause it has the option
>> besides backup to create a system repair dvd whichis in fact, a Startup
>> Repair DVD and System Restore is one of the optionsthere if you have a
>> restore point. If you have a dual boot or multiboot,and you boot to the
>> other drive, you will lose restore points so you have tobe careful to go
>> back and setup at least one in that case.But the wording is different in
>> the left hand pane.1) What you do is click "Backup and Restore" or you
>> can reach it at theControl Panel as well>in the left hand pane under
>> Control Panel Home whichis going to be there from either location click
>> the second listedoption>Create a System Repair Disk.2) I'm operating in
>> Windows 7. In Vista SP1 RTM this option was supposed tobe on All
>> Programs by clicking Maintenance and at the last second MFST(probably
>> their marketing or business arm) had it jerked from the RTM on theAll
>> Programs menu. I don't know if Vista RTM SP1 RTM option has this
>> atBackup, but I do know that it has this application /utility present for
>> surein the C:\Windows\System32 folder and after a UAC/Security tab tweak
>> afterright clicking the app in the System32 folder>properties>security
>> tab to getfull admin privileges it's usable in Vista SP1.3) If the OP
>> doesn't want to take the 3 minutes to do the security tab tweakin Vista
>> SP1, he can simply download the .iso from the link below and trythe
>> System Restore option from Startup Repair's Advanced option list or hecan
>> try the options I've listed below the link:Download Vista Repair
>> Diskhttp://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/1)
>> First try 3 options from Startup Repair. If you have a Vista DVD
>> thenrestart with it in the drive>press any key to boot from it and run
>> StartupRepair. From Startup Repair you have 3 good tools with an
>> excellent chanceof fixing your system. If you don't have a Vista DVD
>> from which to boot toStartup Repair, no problem, Download the .iso from
>> the link below andburn it, and you'll have the Microsoft Vista Repair
>> Disk with StartupRepair.Download Vista Repair
>> Diskhttp://neosmart.net/blog/2008/windows-vista-recovery-disc-download/How
>> to Use Startup Repair from the Vista DVD or the Repair Disk you
>> make:[url]http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial142.htmlhttp://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/5c59f8c1-b0d1-4f1a-af55-74f3922f3f351033.mspx2[/url])
>> If Startup Repair does not get your Vista back, then use the 3
>> bootreccommands from the command prompt available on the Statup Repair
>> Menu:The menu I refer to is in this set of directions with a grey
>> background.[url]http://vistahomepremium.windowsreinstall.com/repairstartup/repairstartup.htmThose[/url]
>> are:bootrec /fixmbrbootrec /fixbootbootrec /rebuild BCD3) If my second
>> option doesn't work, then try System restore from theStartup Repair
>> list.4) If by rare chance you have an actual Vista DVD, you can put it
>> in, bootfrom it>choose the Upgrade Option>choose your current broken
>> Vista Drive andtry to do a repair install with the Vista DVD.How To
>> Perform a Repair Installation For
>> Vistahttp://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/88236-repair-install-vista.html5)
>> If the above 3 tools don't work, then use the 4 tools available
>> byrestarting your pc and tapping F8 once per second to get to the
>> WindowsAdvanced Options Menu.From this menu click on 3 Safe Mode links to
>> use System Restore. Make sureyou try all 3 if one doesn't work, because
>> just one of them may work.Tap F8 to Reach Windows Advanced Options Menu
>> Pictured
>> Below:[url]http://media.photobucket.com/image/vista%20windows%20advanced%20options%20menu/indyank/techbliss/Vista-Advanced-Boot-Options.jpgSafe[/url]
>> ModeSafe Mode with NetworkingSafe Mode with Command: At the prompt you
>> would type the command to useforsystem restore at the safe mode cmd
>> prompt is:%systemroot%\system32\restore\rstrui.exeIf these 3 tools don't
>> work, you have one more you can try which is LastKnown Good
>> Configuration.Good luck,CH[/color]
>[/color]

CH

Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far too
long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.

When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu there
is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in the face
it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore also has no
feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using Complete PC Backup
etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and create a system
restore point' but no option to create a startup repair disk.

System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
logged on administrator.

As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)

I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be able
to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not gain
access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that system
restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system restore
has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone knows that
system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this reason that I
always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users to create a
complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be burnt to a
bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because it does just
that 'completely restores the system.'

I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was, simply
stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or someone else's
is completely up to him/her.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
news:#vGg9fVwJHA.1088@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:OxmzIjUwJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Hi Chad,
>>
>> There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2. If
>> I right click computer I don't see any 'backup' option. Besides the
>> option in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is not a system
>> restore recover which is what the OP asked for. There is a big difference
>> between being able to simply repair startup problems and completely
>> restoring your system from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup
>> having used it I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, the ****
>> thing is too temperamental.
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> John Barnett MVP
>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>
>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url][/color]
>
>
> Hi John--
>
> What exactly do you mean?
>
> "There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2."
>
> There's absolutely the ability to make a Repair Disk and it's located in
> your C:\Windows System32 folder. Have a look there. It's called
> recdisc.exe. If they made the mistake they made when they hid it in SP1,
> it requires a UAC/permissions tweak I outlined in my previous posts on
> this thread. It doesn't require that tweak at any of its 5 locations in
> Windows 7.
>
> Those 4 locations are:
>
> 1) Control Panel>Click Backup and Restore
> 2) Computer>Right Click>the operating system drive>properties>tools>backup
> now and you get exactly what I screenshot
> 3) All Programs>Maintenance>Create a System Repair Disc "Creates a disc
> you can use to access system recovery options." Those are MSFT's words
> when you mouse over that location.
> 4) Recdisc.exe located in the System 32 folder. In Windows 7 all builds,
> it doesn't require a UAC tweak as it crazily does in Vista SP1 and Vista
> SP2.
>
> "There is a big difference between being able[color=green]
>> to simply repair startup problems and completely restoring your system
>> from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup having used it I
>> wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, the **** thing is too
>> temperamental."[/color]
>
> I wouldn't trust any of the MSFT backups in Vista or Windows 7 but I would
> trust this particular application from the backup team to make a Startup
> Repair disk from which SR can be accessed if you've made and maintained a
> restore point or points.
>
> The reason I wouldn't trust them is that too many users can't recover the
> backup from its compression files despite the elegances with which the
> Bacup and Restore team continues to attempt to describe their work. I
> agree with you they don't work. The best way to backup is to media
> because then the files and folders mean what you see is what you get.
>
> And hard drives can and do fail. External hard drives can and do corrupt
> and recovery of them is on the average $1600 in the U.S.
>
> I don't know if they left this out of some of their less expensive
> editions, because I don't have them to look at. The Windows 7 I
> screenshot all 4 locations in is "Ultimate." From what I'm looking at on
> websites including Microsoft Press Pass Ultimate will remain available as
> RTM, along with other editions, and I expect them all to have this
> feature.
>
> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03Win7SKU-QA.mspx[/url]
>
> The OP's question was and I quote:
>
> "Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
> complete system restore DVD?"
>
> I'd consider the ability to make a genuine Startup Repair Disc a "utility"
> and Microsoft absolutely did build it into Vista SP1 and later although
> they Easter Egg hid it and no one here has come up with an explanation as
> to exactly why they played that non-intuintive game.
>
> The startup repair disc has the ability to do a system restore. It
> mistakenly has a link that allows someone supposedly to create a restore
> point and when you click that link it says since this is a lower level
> environment you can't do that.
>
> And no one on the System Restore team parses system restore as a
> "complete system restore" and an "incomplete." Do you mind explaining why
> you're parsing it?
>
> And since the OP was so terse, we don't know exactly what he was trying to
> fix if anything or if he was idly asking the question because
> [email]Bob@coolgroups.com[/email] hasn't elaborated his one sentence question, nor has he
> commented as a followup.
>
> System Restore is a registry snapshot, and system restore is system
> restore. I'd be delighted for you to tell me why in the world you're
> attempting to parse system restore as a System Restore DVD and tell me
> that there is a difference from the System Restore available in the places
> where I said it is--
>
> From recdisc.exe in Vista SP1 and Vista SP2 in the C:\Windows\System32
> folder or if someone has multiple boots, we both know that drive letter
> could change.
> It is available in no less than 5 locations in every build of Windows 7
> through 7106 at the five locations I've screenshot. You don't think I
> "photo shopped" 'em do ya? Here they are again for you viewing pleasure.
>
> Windows 7 has the ability to make a startup repair disc with system
> restore (the only one Microsoft makes) on it.
>
> "Besides the option in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is
> not a system restore recover which is what the OP asked for."
>
> This is what the OP asked for because it's a quote of his one sentence
> question:
>
> "Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
> complete system restore DVD?"
>
> Windows 7 has 5 locations from which to do a system restore by making a
> repair disc.
>
> I'm going to quote you exactly what MSFT says it is when you mouse over
> its location
>
> "Create a System Repair Disc. Creates a disc where you can access your
> recovery options." This is a quote from the mousing over a click of
> Maintenance on the All Programs Menu of Windows 7. It is accessing the
> same application that you have in every Vista SP1 or later at your
> C:\Windows\System32 folder. Go have a look.
> John--whatever does this mean? A system restore recover is a system
> restore recover when it comes from the boys and girls on the System
> Restore team. Ask the individuals on the Complete PC Backup and System
> Restore team if you don't believe your eyes and my screenshots.
>
> And as I screenshot in Windows 7 the latest build, it is at 5 locations.
>
> It has system restore on it. And last time I checked, the Windows XP,
> Vista, and Windows 7 F8 aka Windows Advanced Options Menu have 3 safe
> modes from which a system restore can be accessed and sometimes as not
> enough people realize, one system restore access will work when others
> don't.
>
> It absolutely ******is***** John and I have screenshot it and if you like
> I'll screenshot the actual steps using it. It gives you this which is
> MSFT's panoply of Startup Repair Advanced Menu options (Microsoft's own
> exact words when you get there) INCLUDING SYSTEM RESTORE.
>
> Go to System 32 and you'll see it smiling at John.
>
> And take one of your Win 7 boots and builds, I don't care which one
> through 7106, and you will see it in FIVE I said (5) locations fully
> functional without the screwup that requires UAC tweaking as I explained
> to you in detail that they released in Vista SP1 and SP2 at System 32.
> Again that's recdisc.exe and it's on all your boxes there.
>
> I don't know if Vista SP2 ridiculously (because of inattention to how it
> worked while Beta testing) requires a permissions tweak. I do know that
> none of your Windows 7 builds does.
>
> I beg to differ. I've tried it in every build. I don't think you have. It
> is precisely what the OP asked for and it includes the System Restore
> option from a DVD or if you download from the link I gave you, it would
> fit on a CD to be literal that MSFT provides in Startup Repair. Don't let
> the word "recovery" fool you and anyway that's your word. I'd prefer you
> did not use it, because it evokes the erratic OEM recovery disks.
> Microsoft, the people who make windows, calls it a System Repair Disk
> Creates a System
>
> I represented that behind the backup option at Control Panel is an option
> I the left task pane to create a Startup Repair disk which includes a
> System Restore link. I also represented that 3 Separate System Restore
> options are available as you know well at the Windows Advanced Options
> Menu where they have been for many years. They were there in XP at the
> Win Advanced Options Menu, and I expect in Win 2K and I'm not sure about
> Win NT but probably not then.
>
> I'm glad you confirm if you looked at the Control Panel, and at Computer
> that it not on Vista SP2 and I suppose SP1. It is on every official
> launched from Redmond via FTP server available in every single build of
> Win 7 through Build 7106. It is at all 5 locations in Windows 7 every
> build to this minute. I can't imagine they'll pull it.
>
> As far as making predictions of what MSFT will do in RTM, I don't predict
> their behavior from day to day because they often change their minds--you
> can see that they did that in Beta Vista SP1 where they intentionally for
> whatever rationale in the world, made it difficult for people to find
> recdisc.exe in the System 32 folder of that OS. My point is proved,
> because they made it so difficult, than a number of MVPs didn't know it
> was there, didn't know what it does, and apparently still can't find it.
> It's listed under "r" for recdisc.
>
> However, if you go to you System32 folder, I will bet that recdisc.exe
> which gives the full panoply of Startup Repair features, including System
> restore, is there.
>
> I'll summarizes what I wrote and anytime you want to explain to me why
> MSFT pulled the ability to make a repair disc with the FULL PANOPLY OF
> STARTUP REPAIR MENU ON IT, I can't wait. But you don't know. I
> understand in more detail than I want to the sausage making of Beta
> interim builds and every thing I am saying I have confirmed for Official
> MSFT Beta builds up through 7106. Ask 'em if you think I'm kiddin', and
> I'd be delighted to provide you a list of names.
>
> System Restore is absolutely an option and part of Startup Repair which I
> think your website references, although it is one of the options for
> system restore, as I pointed out, 3 others being located at F8 as well as
> Last Known Good
>
> Further, if the OP follows my regiment for the five tools I enumerated, he
> will be able to fix his Vista if that's why he asked the question. The
> why is hard to tell since he didn't say why.
>
> CH
>
>
>[/color]

"John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:OEbm0pewJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far
> too long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.
>
> When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu
> there is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in
> the face it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore
> also has no feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using
> Complete PC Backup etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and
> create a system restore point' but no option to create a startup repair
> disk.
>
> System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
> neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
> forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
> logged on administrator.
>
> As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
> rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
> facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)
>
> I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
> options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
> system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be
> able to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not
> gain access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that system
> restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system restore
> has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone knows that
> system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this reason that I
> always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users to create a
> complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be burnt to a
> bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because it does
> just that 'completely restores the system.'
>
> I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was,
> simply stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or
> someone else's is completely up to him/her.
>
> --
>
> --
> John Barnett MVP
> Windows XP Associate Expert
> Windows Desktop Experience
>
> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url][/color]


Hi John--

Since I last posted to you, I've gone into Starbucks, Borders, and Barnes
and Noble to get a sampling (it wasn't a regression tested double blind
multicentered trial--I just did it when I had time-- and borrowed several
people's boxes for a minute. I've been able to get recdisc.exe to work by
tweaking permissions. None of the people who had expensive boxes knew what
System 32 was, but all of them told me they hoped there was a way to fix
their Vista if they had a blue screen and couldn't boot. None of them knew
exactly how they would get it done.

We aren't talking a feature here like Aero Snap, Aero Peak, or the one that
makes me smile every time Aero Shake, or something that will change the pic
on your start menu or change your windows to red trim or green trim and I
know you appreciate that. We're talking the ways to CPR Vista. If you
have a fire extinguisher in your house, or something you need in a hurry
for important reasons, I bet you don't hide it in the corner in a basement,
in a remote corner of an attic, or where you think no one else can find it.
So I wonder why since Steve Sinofsky was running Windows when SP1 released,
and Bill Gates who has been seen complaining in emails that went public
about not being able to find things in Vista or XP signed off on putting it
there. Jim Allchin may not have left either when that decision was made,
and it sure doesn't sound like the Allchin whose blogs I read towards the
beginning of Vista RTM.

I remember situations like this as well:

[url]http://news.cnet.com/2009-1016_3-6153922.html[/url]

REDMOND, Wash.--Sitting behind a one-way mirror, a white-haired man
struggles to access a shared music library within Windows Vista.

"I'm lost," he says. "I'm in trouble here."

On the other side of the glass, several Microsoft executives try to talk him
through the experience. Thousands of people have gone through similar tests
inside Microsoft's usability lab. But on this day, February 1, 2006, the
person inside Building 28 isn't just some random beta tester. It's Windows
boss Jim Allchin

And at that time, Allchin had plenty to grouse about. Windows Vista had been
in testing for many months. The company had already drastically reshaped the
operating system to try to get Vista onto store shelves by the holidays, but
by Microsoft's own account there were still lots of bugs. While the latest
versions of Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer that Allchin put
through their paces had improved since his last trip to the labs, other
parts of Vista were still driving him crazy.

Fast-forward nearly 12 months. Although Microsoft couldn't get through 2006
without being forced to delay Vista once again, by the start of 2007--after
five years in development and endless feedback from thousands of
testers--the majority of Allchin's gripes had finally been addressed.

___________________________________________________

I don't have Vista SP2 in front of me, and I have a lot of Vista DVDs but I
don't have any on any boxes anymore. I do know that these 4 locations are
in Windows 7 and they all work.

I don't think the OP made it easy for us to understand a) what he really
wanted b) what he wants to do--or accurately he didn't make it crystal clear
***to me.*** I tried to help him.

I always value your opinion. I had trouble understanding what you meant by
System Restore (I thought basically the chance to use a restore point and
since the OP was a bit nebulous (to me anyway) I'm not sure what he was
asking for. Usually on this group, when people mention system restore,
startup repair, terms like I can't boot, lost my Vista, don't see my OS,
they are in a bit of a jam, and need help getting out of it.

I've noted over the last 3 years that because the Vista Backup and Restore
team who has now moved their focus to Win 7 now, didn't find it practical to
back port, that when someone on a dual or multi-boot went to the other boot,
they lost restore points. There were hundreds of discussions on this when
the Vista public groups started, and no doubt you helped in many of them. I
have tried, since this group and the Vista general group, and some of the
Beta groups started, to encourage people on multi-boot boxes to avoid this
by simply shortcutting to the desktop of the other Windows OS's

Let's see if I can make it short and sweet so that you will read and
understand what I'm saying. I'm not evoking or provoking an argument. I
have as much distaste as most people for someone who comes on a newsgroup or
forum and says "Hey bozo, yada yada yada my view is correct and yours isn't
and so on." I'm not knocking MSFT, who it took years to do the right thing
as far as rescue disks. but in Windows 7 they appear to have done so unless
they were to pull a working recdis.exe's Program Files location in
Maintenance off the All Programs folder, and hopefully they won't. I would
say though that when MSFT pulled recdisc.exe off the Programs menu from
Vista SP1's beta to it's RTM where I've screenshot it in Win 7, I don't know
any other analogy to use than the one of putting some doc in an ER to catch
patients, and hiding the crash cart, including the defibrillator and
lidocaine.

For thousands of enthusiasts, IT people etc. etc. the System 32 folder
familiar territory. As to its not working, in Vista, most people have been
able to get recdisc.exe to work by tweaking its permissions and I offered 2
ways to do it.

I feel very strongly that since MSFT has the means they should provide a way
to maximize the chance to repair the OS, and to their credit, they've
expended considerable effort toward getting this done, making Win RE
available in various SDKs and other downloads, and now with this feature in
Win 7.

For a good while, I didn't know it existed, but I think I have my act
together now as to how to help people who don't have a Vista DVD or a Win 7
DVD maximize their chances to repair the OS.

According to a number of people on the Technet forums, you can make the
ability to make a Repair Disk work in Windows Vista SP1 if you tweak the
permissions. There have been several threads there--and I'm not sure why
they aren't available as NNTP groups since they are MSFT forums. This
aussie gentleman has been one of the most prolific posters on how to make it
work. But again, they'd have to find it first. I wonder if Steve Sinofsky
thinks the first thing that red headed Lauren does is go to the System 32
folder. I honestly don't think she does. "Like hey Ashleigh, I have to
book now 'cause like I can't wait to go home and plough into my System 32
folder on the new pc I got because Apple Macs are like too expensive and I'm
not cool enough to use a Mac." So my question to Mr. Sinofsky is going to
be why they buried it in the System 32 folder. I think it's a reasonable
question to ask.


RE: VISTA SOLUCTIONS RECDISC.EXE how to create a recovery/repair cd

[url]http://c4consulting.com.au/soluctions/vista/VISTA%20SOLUCTIONS.htm[/url]

I have spent a lot of time evangelizing for MSFT, and like you, I think the
best help we can provide to people is to tell things like they are, so let's
just say I'm dumbfounded/non-plussed that they would pull a way to save
someone's Vista into the system32 folder where the average end user isn't
likely to head or even know exists.

I very much appreciate your frank views on System Restore, and other
components and your opinions of when they work and when they don't. I try
to do the same thing.

What confused the issue was MSFT's pulling a way to make a disk that had all
the Startup Repair features in Vista SP1 after years of knowing one was
needed into a System 32 folder that requires a permissions mod to get it to
work.

XP had a five year run before Vista first became a Beta in July of 2005, and
a ***nearly a seven year run before Vista RTM'd.*** XP RTM'd if I remember
correctly on October 25, 2001, and Vista RTM'd on January 30, 2007. MSFT
got a lot of feedback showcasing the fact that OEM's don't ship XP CDs,
Vista DVDs, and won't be shipping Win 7 DVDs. It's presented a huge problem
for people who confuse what the recovery disks and partitions do (factory
settings when they work) and what Startup Repair, the bootrec switches,
BCDedit, the F8 options, and Last Known good do when they work. They are
all repair modalities, but of course some like the bootsect /nt60all switche
have specific purposes for specific situations

Best,

CH

John--

This link as well discusses the obscure location, MSFT's jerking the tool
off the Programs menu and burying it in the system 32 folder, and making it
work by tweaking permissions.

[url]http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/itprovistasp/thread/bfb64e50-aacf-4253-894e-b9c3df52860e/[/url]

Why the Technet/Social forums aren't NNTP newsreadable is another reasonable
question. There should have been a Win 7 group accessed by the NNTP
newsreader since MSFT has taken Win 7 CPP with Build 7000 and soon RC1.

CH

"John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:OEbm0pewJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far
> too long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.
>
> When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu
> there is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in
> the face it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore
> also has no feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using
> Complete PC Backup etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and
> create a system restore point' but no option to create a startup repair
> disk.
>
> System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
> neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
> forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
> logged on administrator.
>
> As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
> rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
> facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)
>
> I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
> options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
> system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be
> able to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not
> gain access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that system
> restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system restore
> has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone knows that
> system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this reason that I
> always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users to create a
> complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be burnt to a
> bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because it does
> just that 'completely restores the system.'
>
> I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was,
> simply stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or
> someone else's is completely up to him/her.
>
> --
>
> --
> John Barnett MVP
> Windows XP Associate Expert
> Windows Desktop Experience
>
> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]
>
> The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
> kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
> reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable
> for
> any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of
> the
> use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
> mail/post..
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <Win7@yes_she_can.net> wrote in message
> news:#vGg9fVwJHA.1088@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:OxmzIjUwJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Hi Chad,
>>>
>>> There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2.
>>> If I right click computer I don't see any 'backup' option. Besides the
>>> option in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is not a system
>>> restore recover which is what the OP asked for. There is a big
>>> difference between being able to simply repair startup problems and
>>> completely restoring your system from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete
>>> PC Backup having used it I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it,
>>> the **** thing is too temperamental.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> John Barnett MVP
>>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>>
>>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url][/color]
>>
>>
>> Hi John--
>>
>> What exactly do you mean?
>>
>> "There is no backup option whatsoever in my copy of Vista ultimate SP2."
>>
>> There's absolutely the ability to make a Repair Disk and it's located in
>> your C:\Windows System32 folder. Have a look there. It's called
>> recdisc.exe. If they made the mistake they made when they hid it in SP1,
>> it requires a UAC/permissions tweak I outlined in my previous posts on
>> this thread. It doesn't require that tweak at any of its 5 locations in
>> Windows 7.
>>
>> Those 4 locations are:
>>
>> 1) Control Panel>Click Backup and Restore
>> 2) Computer>Right Click>the operating system
>> drive>properties>tools>backup now and you get exactly what I screenshot
>> 3) All Programs>Maintenance>Create a System Repair Disc "Creates a disc
>> you can use to access system recovery options." Those are MSFT's words
>> when you mouse over that location.
>> 4) Recdisc.exe located in the System 32 folder. In Windows 7 all builds,
>> it doesn't require a UAC tweak as it crazily does in Vista SP1 and Vista
>> SP2.
>>
>> "There is a big difference between being able[color=darkred]
>>> to simply repair startup problems and completely restoring your system
>>> from a DVD. While Ultimate has Complete PC Backup having used it I
>>> wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it, the **** thing is too
>>> temperamental."[/color]
>>
>> I wouldn't trust any of the MSFT backups in Vista or Windows 7 but I
>> would trust this particular application from the backup team to make a
>> Startup Repair disk from which SR can be accessed if you've made and
>> maintained a restore point or points.
>>
>> The reason I wouldn't trust them is that too many users can't recover the
>> backup from its compression files despite the elegances with which the
>> Bacup and Restore team continues to attempt to describe their work. I
>> agree with you they don't work. The best way to backup is to media
>> because then the files and folders mean what you see is what you get.
>>
>> And hard drives can and do fail. External hard drives can and do corrupt
>> and recovery of them is on the average $1600 in the U.S.
>>
>> I don't know if they left this out of some of their less expensive
>> editions, because I don't have them to look at. The Windows 7 I
>> screenshot all 4 locations in is "Ultimate." From what I'm looking at on
>> websites including Microsoft Press Pass Ultimate will remain available as
>> RTM, along with other editions, and I expect them all to have this
>> feature.
>>
>> [url]http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03Win7SKU-QA.mspx[/url]
>>
>> The OP's question was and I quote:
>>
>> "Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
>> complete system restore DVD?"
>>
>> I'd consider the ability to make a genuine Startup Repair Disc a
>> "utility" and Microsoft absolutely did build it into Vista SP1 and later
>> although they Easter Egg hid it and no one here has come up with an
>> explanation as to exactly why they played that non-intuintive game.
>>
>> The startup repair disc has the ability to do a system restore. It
>> mistakenly has a link that allows someone supposedly to create a restore
>> point and when you click that link it says since this is a lower level
>> environment you can't do that.
>>
>> And no one on the System Restore team parses system restore as a
>> "complete system restore" and an "incomplete." Do you mind explaining
>> why you're parsing it?
>>
>> And since the OP was so terse, we don't know exactly what he was trying
>> to fix if anything or if he was idly asking the question because
>> [email]Bob@coolgroups.com[/email] hasn't elaborated his one sentence question, nor has
>> he commented as a followup.
>>
>> System Restore is a registry snapshot, and system restore is system
>> restore. I'd be delighted for you to tell me why in the world you're
>> attempting to parse system restore as a System Restore DVD and tell me
>> that there is a difference from the System Restore available in the
>> places where I said it is--
>>
>> From recdisc.exe in Vista SP1 and Vista SP2 in the C:\Windows\System32
>> folder or if someone has multiple boots, we both know that drive letter
>> could change.
>> It is available in no less than 5 locations in every build of Windows 7
>> through 7106 at the five locations I've screenshot. You don't think I
>> "photo shopped" 'em do ya? Here they are again for you viewing pleasure.
>>
>> Windows 7 has the ability to make a startup repair disc with system
>> restore (the only one Microsoft makes) on it.
>>
>> "Besides the option in Windows 7 is only a startup recovery disk it is
>> not a system restore recover which is what the OP asked for."
>>
>> This is what the OP asked for because it's a quote of his one sentence
>> question:
>>
>> "Is there any utility built into Vista or XP to allow one to create a
>> complete system restore DVD?"
>>
>> Windows 7 has 5 locations from which to do a system restore by making a
>> repair disc.
>>
>> I'm going to quote you exactly what MSFT says it is when you mouse over
>> its location
>>
>> "Create a System Repair Disc. Creates a disc where you can access your
>> recovery options." This is a quote from the mousing over a click of
>> Maintenance on the All Programs Menu of Windows 7. It is accessing the
>> same application that you have in every Vista SP1 or later at your
>> C:\Windows\System32 folder. Go have a look.
>> John--whatever does this mean? A system restore recover is a system
>> restore recover when it comes from the boys and girls on the System
>> Restore team. Ask the individuals on the Complete PC Backup and System
>> Restore team if you don't believe your eyes and my screenshots.
>>
>> And as I screenshot in Windows 7 the latest build, it is at 5 locations.
>>
>> It has system restore on it. And last time I checked, the Windows XP,
>> Vista, and Windows 7 F8 aka Windows Advanced Options Menu have 3 safe
>> modes from which a system restore can be accessed and sometimes as not
>> enough people realize, one system restore access will work when others
>> don't.
>>
>> It absolutely ******is***** John and I have screenshot it and if you like
>> I'll screenshot the actual steps using it. It gives you this which is
>> MSFT's panoply of Startup Repair Advanced Menu options (Microsoft's own
>> exact words when you get there) INCLUDING SYSTEM RESTORE.
>>
>> Go to System 32 and you'll see it smiling at John.
>>
>> And take one of your Win 7 boots and builds, I don't care which one
>> through 7106, and you will see it in FIVE I said (5) locations fully
>> functional without the screwup that requires UAC tweaking as I explained
>> to you in detail that they released in Vista SP1 and SP2 at System 32.
>> Again that's recdisc.exe and it's on all your boxes there.
>>
>> I don't know if Vista SP2 ridiculously (because of inattention to how it
>> worked while Beta testing) requires a permissions tweak. I do know that
>> none of your Windows 7 builds does.
>>
>> I beg to differ. I've tried it in every build. I don't think you have.
>> It is precisely what the OP asked for and it includes the System Restore
>> option from a DVD or if you download from the link I gave you, it would
>> fit on a CD to be literal that MSFT provides in Startup Repair. Don't
>> let the word "recovery" fool you and anyway that's your word. I'd prefer
>> you did not use it, because it evokes the erratic OEM recovery disks.
>> Microsoft, the people who make windows, calls it a System Repair Disk
>> Creates a System
>>
>> I represented that behind the backup option at Control Panel is an option
>> I the left task pane to create a Startup Repair disk which includes a
>> System Restore link. I also represented that 3 Separate System Restore
>> options are available as you know well at the Windows Advanced Options
>> Menu where they have been for many years. They were there in XP at the
>> Win Advanced Options Menu, and I expect in Win 2K and I'm not sure about
>> Win NT but probably not then.
>>
>> I'm glad you confirm if you looked at the Control Panel, and at Computer
>> that it not on Vista SP2 and I suppose SP1. It is on every official
>> launched from Redmond via FTP server available in every single build of
>> Win 7 through Build 7106. It is at all 5 locations in Windows 7 every
>> build to this minute. I can't imagine they'll pull it.
>>
>> As far as making predictions of what MSFT will do in RTM, I don't predict
>> their behavior from day to day because they often change their minds--you
>> can see that they did that in Beta Vista SP1 where they intentionally for
>> whatever rationale in the world, made it difficult for people to find
>> recdisc.exe in the System 32 folder of that OS. My point is proved,
>> because they made it so difficult, than a number of MVPs didn't know it
>> was there, didn't know what it does, and apparently still can't find it.
>> It's listed under "r" for recdisc.
>>
>> However, if you go to you System32 folder, I will bet that recdisc.exe
>> which gives the full panoply of Startup Repair features, including System
>> restore, is there.
>>
>> I'll summarizes what I wrote and anytime you want to explain to me why
>> MSFT pulled the ability to make a repair disc with the FULL PANOPLY OF
>> STARTUP REPAIR MENU ON IT, I can't wait. But you don't know. I
>> understand in more detail than I want to the sausage making of Beta
>> interim builds and every thing I am saying I have confirmed for Official
>> MSFT Beta builds up through 7106. Ask 'em if you think I'm kiddin', and
>> I'd be delighted to provide you a list of names.
>>
>> System Restore is absolutely an option and part of Startup Repair which I
>> think your website references, although it is one of the options for
>> system restore, as I pointed out, 3 others being located at F8 as well as
>> Last Known Good
>>
>> Further, if the OP follows my regiment for the five tools I enumerated,
>> he will be able to fix his Vista if that's why he asked the question.
>> The why is hard to tell since he didn't say why.
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>>[/color][/color]

Hi Chad,

Just a quick update. I have managed to alter the permissions and just to
make sure I was following the instructions to the letter I followed the
instructions on your link:
[url]http://c4consulting.com.au/soluctions/vista/VISTA%20SOLUCTIONS.htm[/url]

Having create a shortcut on the desktop and clicked on it (I'm set to single
click, not double click) I get a UAC prompt, I then click OK to accept the
UAC and that's it nothing, absolutely nothing, happens.

I'm not disputing that this doesn't work, but it certainly doesn't seem to
be working in Vista version 6.0 (Build 6002: Service pack 2 v659).

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"CH" <windows7@blackcombville.net> wrote in message
news:euPubRgwJHA.5584@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
>
> "John Barnett MVP" <freelance@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:OEbm0pewJHA.4452@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far
>> too long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.
>>
>> When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu
>> there is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in
>> the face it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore
>> also has no feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using
>> Complete PC Backup etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and
>> create a system restore point' but no option to create a startup repair
>> disk.
>>
>> System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
>> neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
>> forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
>> logged on administrator.
>>
>> As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
>> rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
>> facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)
>>
>> I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
>> options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
>> system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be
>> able to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not
>> gain access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that
>> system restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system
>> restore has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone
>> knows that system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this
>> reason that I always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users
>> to create a complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be
>> burnt to a bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because
>> it does just that 'completely restores the system.'
>>
>> I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was,
>> simply stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or
>> someone else's is completely up to him/her.
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> John Barnett MVP
>> Windows XP Associate Expert
>> Windows Desktop Experience
>>
>> Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
>> Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url][/color]
>
>
> Hi John--
>
> Since I last posted to you, I've gone into Starbucks, Borders, and Barnes
> and Noble to get a sampling (it wasn't a regression tested double blind
> multicentered trial--I just did it when I had time-- and borrowed several
> people's boxes for a minute. I've been able to get recdisc.exe to work by
> tweaking permissions. None of the people who had expensive boxes knew
> what System 32 was, but all of them told me they hoped there was a way to
> fix their Vista if they had a blue screen and couldn't boot. None of them
> knew exactly how they would get it done.
>
> We aren't talking a feature here like Aero Snap, Aero Peak, or the one
> that makes me smile every time Aero Shake, or something that will change
> the pic on your start menu or change your windows to red trim or green
> trim and I know you appreciate that. We're talking the ways to CPR Vista.
> If you have a fire extinguisher in your house, or something you need in a
> hurry for important reasons, I bet you don't hide it in the corner in a
> basement, in a remote corner of an attic, or where you think no one else
> can find it. So I wonder why since Steve Sinofsky was running Windows when
> SP1 released, and Bill Gates who has been seen complaining in emails that
> went public about not being able to find things in Vista or XP signed off
> on putting it there. Jim Allchin may not have left either when that
> decision was made, and it sure doesn't sound like the Allchin whose blogs
> I read towards the beginning of Vista RTM.
>
> I remember situations like this as well:
>
> [url]http://news.cnet.com/2009-1016_3-6153922.html[/url]
>
> REDMOND, Wash.--Sitting behind a one-way mirror, a white-haired man
> struggles to access a shared music library within Windows Vista.
>
> "I'm lost," he says. "I'm in trouble here."
>
> On the other side of the glass, several Microsoft executives try to talk
> him through the experience. Thousands of people have gone through similar
> tests inside Microsoft's usability lab. But on this day, February 1, 2006,
> the person inside Building 28 isn't just some random beta tester. It's
> Windows boss Jim Allchin
>
> And at that time, Allchin had plenty to grouse about. Windows Vista had
> been in testing for many months. The company had already drastically
> reshaped the operating system to try to get Vista onto store shelves by
> the holidays, but by Microsoft's own account there were still lots of
> bugs. While the latest versions of Windows Media Player and Internet
> Explorer that Allchin put through their paces had improved since his last
> trip to the labs, other parts of Vista were still driving him crazy.
>
> Fast-forward nearly 12 months. Although Microsoft couldn't get through
> 2006 without being forced to delay Vista once again, by the start of
> 2007--after five years in development and endless feedback from thousands
> of testers--the majority of Allchin's gripes had finally been addressed.
>
> ___________________________________________________
>
> I don't have Vista SP2 in front of me, and I have a lot of Vista DVDs but
> I don't have any on any boxes anymore. I do know that these 4 locations
> are in Windows 7 and they all work.
>
> I don't think the OP made it easy for us to understand a) what he really
> wanted b) what he wants to do--or accurately he didn't make it crystal
> clear ***to me.*** I tried to help him.
>
> I always value your opinion. I had trouble understanding what you meant
> by System Restore (I thought basically the chance to use a restore point
> and since the OP was a bit nebulous (to me anyway) I'm not sure what he
> was asking for. Usually on this group, when people mention system
> restore, startup repair, terms like I can't boot, lost my Vista, don't see
> my OS, they are in a bit of a jam, and need help getting out of it.
>
> I've noted over the last 3 years that because the Vista Backup and Restore
> team who has now moved their focus to Win 7 now, didn't find it practical
> to back port, that when someone on a dual or multi-boot went to the other
> boot, they lost restore points. There were hundreds of discussions on
> this when the Vista public groups started, and no doubt you helped in many
> of them. I have tried, since this group and the Vista general group, and
> some of the Beta groups started, to encourage people on multi-boot boxes
> to avoid this by simply shortcutting to the desktop of the other Windows
> OS's
>
> Let's see if I can make it short and sweet so that you will read and
> understand what I'm saying. I'm not evoking or provoking an argument. I
> have as much distaste as most people for someone who comes on a newsgroup
> or forum and says "Hey bozo, yada yada yada my view is correct and yours
> isn't and so on." I'm not knocking MSFT, who it took years to do the
> right thing as far as rescue disks. but in Windows 7 they appear to have
> done so unless they were to pull a working recdis.exe's Program Files
> location in Maintenance off the All Programs folder, and hopefully they
> won't. I would say though that when MSFT pulled recdisc.exe off the
> Programs menu from Vista SP1's beta to it's RTM where I've screenshot it
> in Win 7, I don't know any other analogy to use than the one of putting
> some doc in an ER to catch patients, and hiding the crash cart, including
> the defibrillator and lidocaine.
>
> For thousands of enthusiasts, IT people etc. etc. the System 32 folder
> familiar territory. As to its not working, in Vista, most people have
> been able to get recdisc.exe to work by tweaking its permissions and I
> offered 2 ways to do it.
>
> I feel very strongly that since MSFT has the means they should provide a
> way to maximize the chance to repair the OS, and to their credit, they've
> expended considerable effort toward getting this done, making Win RE
> available in various SDKs and other downloads, and now with this feature
> in Win 7.
>
> For a good while, I didn't know it existed, but I think I have my act
> together now as to how to help people who don't have a Vista DVD or a Win
> 7 DVD maximize their chances to repair the OS.
>
> According to a number of people on the Technet forums, you can make the
> ability to make a Repair Disk work in Windows Vista SP1 if you tweak the
> permissions. There have been several threads there--and I'm not sure why
> they aren't available as NNTP groups since they are MSFT forums. This
> aussie gentleman has been one of the most prolific posters on how to make
> it work. But again, they'd have to find it first. I wonder if Steve
> Sinofsky thinks the first thing that red headed Lauren does is go to the
> System 32 folder. I honestly don't think she does. "Like hey Ashleigh, I
> have to book now 'cause like I can't wait to go home and plough into my
> System 32 folder on the new pc I got because Apple Macs are like too
> expensive and I'm not cool enough to use a Mac." So my question to Mr.
> Sinofsky is going to be why they buried it in the System 32 folder. I
> think it's a reasonable question to ask.
>
>
> RE: VISTA SOLUCTIONS RECDISC.EXE how to create a recovery/repair cd
>
> [url]http://c4consulting.com.au/soluctions/vista/VISTA%20SOLUCTIONS.htm[/url]
>
> I have spent a lot of time evangelizing for MSFT, and like you, I think
> the best help we can provide to people is to tell things like they are, so
> let's just say I'm dumbfounded/non-plussed that they would pull a way to
> save someone's Vista into the system32 folder where the average end user
> isn't likely to head or even know exists.
>
> I very much appreciate your frank views on System Restore, and other
> components and your opinions of when they work and when they don't. I try
> to do the same thing.
>
> What confused the issue was MSFT's pulling a way to make a disk that had
> all the Startup Repair features in Vista SP1 after years of knowing one
> was needed into a System 32 folder that requires a permissions mod to get
> it to work.
>
> XP had a five year run before Vista first became a Beta in July of 2005,
> and a ***nearly a seven year run before Vista RTM'd.*** XP RTM'd if I
> remember correctly on October 25, 2001, and Vista RTM'd on January 30,
> 2007. MSFT got a lot of feedback showcasing the fact that OEM's don't
> ship XP CDs, Vista DVDs, and won't be shipping Win 7 DVDs. It's presented
> a huge problem for people who confuse what the recovery disks and
> partitions do (factory settings when they work) and what Startup Repair,
> the bootrec switches, BCDedit, the F8 options, and Last Known good do when
> they work. They are all repair modalities, but of course some like the
> bootsect /nt60all switche have specific purposes for specific situations
>
> Best,
>
> CH
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[/color]

John, let me expand a bit on your remarks (inline)...

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:01:49 +0100, John Barnett MVP wrote:
[color=blue]
> Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far too
> long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.[/color]

:-)
[color=blue]
> When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu there
> is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in the face
> it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore also has no
> feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using Complete PC Backup
> etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and create a system
> restore point' but no option to create a startup repair disk.[/color]

Same here (Home Premium SP1).
[color=blue]
> System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
> neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
> forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
> logged on administrator.[/color]

On my computer, recdisc.exe starts up and disappears (after a moment, it's
not findable in Task Manager or Process Explorer).
[color=blue]
> As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
> rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
> facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)[/color]

Also the OP asked for XP and Vista, not 7.
[color=blue]
> I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
> options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
> system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be able
> to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not gain
> access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that system
> restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system restore
> has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone knows that
> system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this reason that I
> always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users to create a
> complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be burnt to a
> bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because it does just
> that 'completely restores the system.'[/color]

In fact the OP asked for "a complete system restore DVD" (I copied and
pasted this from the OP). Seems unambiguous to me...
[color=blue]
> I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was, simply
> stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or someone else's
> is completely up to him/her.[/color]

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

Hi Gene,

Thanks for your input.

I have tried to 'permissions' work around a number of times and,
unfortunately, it still doesn't work on my machine. As you say, as soon as
you click on recdisc.exe, you get a fleeting glimpse of something about to
happen and then nothing materialises. Exactly the opposite occurs in Windows
7 were, when you click on recdisc.exe up pops the screen for you to insert a
CD into your CD-ROM.

I'm currently using Vista with the service pack 2 beta installed so haven't
had time to check whether it works on an installation on my machine with
just service pack 1.

I agree that the OP was interested in Vista and XP, not Windows 7 but I
believe Chad was trying to illustrate that Microsoft have included the
recdisc.exe feature in Windows 7 by default but decided to hide it in Vista.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message
news:8osne8ftntw.rotnwtgjz6m7.dlg@40tude.net...[color=blue]
> John, let me expand a bit on your remarks (inline)...
>
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 20:01:49 +0100, John Barnett MVP wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Ok Chad, I'm not going through the whole of your post because it is far
>> too
>> long, slightly repetitive and, frankly, I don't have time.[/color]
>
> :-)
>[color=green]
>> When using the option of right clicking on Computer in the start menu
>> there
>> is no backup option in Vista SP2. If I click on it 'til I'm blue in the
>> face
>> it still won't appear. As for Control Panel, Backup and Restore also has
>> no
>> feature to make a startup rescue disk. I can backup using Complete PC
>> Backup
>> etc or I can 'repair windows using system restore and create a system
>> restore point' but no option to create a startup repair disk.[/color]
>
> Same here (Home Premium SP1).
>[color=green]
>> System32 folder does, as you say, contain the 'recdisc.exe' file but it
>> neither works normally or elevated. As for changing permissions you can
>> forget it because everything is grayed out and cannot be altered. I am
>> logged on administrator.[/color]
>
> On my computer, recdisc.exe starts up and disappears (after a moment, it's
> not findable in Task Manager or Process Explorer).
>[color=green]
>> As for Windows 7 I am well aware that the facility to create the startup
>> rescue disk is available. I also have a CD with actually startup rescue
>> facility on (as does each retail copy of Vista/Windows 7)[/color]
>
> Also the OP asked for XP and Vista, not 7.
>[color=green]
>> I'm not disputing that you can access system restore from the repair
>> options. My interpretation of the OP's questions is to create a complete
>> system restore DVD. To do this you (my interpretation again) need to be
>> able
>> to 'restore' your PC to its original state assuming you could not gain
>> access to your system. Using system restore 'assumes' (a) that system
>> restore is enabled (mine isn't and never has been) and (b) system restore
>> has a restore point available 'prior' to your problem. Everyone knows
>> that
>> system restore is notoriously unreliable. It is for this reason that I
>> always suggest Acronis True Image and always advise users to create a
>> complete image of the hard drive and, as this image can be burnt to a
>> bootable set of DVDs it fulfills the OP's requirements because it does
>> just
>> that 'completely restores the system.'[/color]
>
> In fact the OP asked for "a complete system restore DVD" (I copied and
> pasted this from the OP). Seems unambiguous to me...
>[color=green]
>> I'm not here to argue the pro's and con's of Microsoft I am, and was,
>> simply
>> stating my opinion. Whether the OP takes my advise, yours or someone
>> else's
>> is completely up to him/her.[/color]
>
> --
> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]

On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:07:49 +0100, John Barnett MVP wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hi Gene,
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> I have tried to 'permissions' work around a number of times and,
> unfortunately, it still doesn't work on my machine. As you say, as soon as
> you click on recdisc.exe, you get a fleeting glimpse of something about to
> happen and then nothing materialises. Exactly the opposite occurs in Windows
> 7 were, when you click on recdisc.exe up pops the screen for you to insert a
> CD into your CD-ROM.
>
> I'm currently using Vista with the service pack 2 beta installed so haven't
> had time to check whether it works on an installation on my machine with
> just service pack 1.
>
> I agree that the OP was interested in Vista and XP, not Windows 7 but I
> believe Chad was trying to illustrate that Microsoft have included the
> recdisc.exe feature in Windows 7 by default but decided to hide it in Vista.[/color]

Could well be. Unfortunately, that might not have been of much help to the
OP ;-)

BTW, I was trying to support your remarks in my post, but on rereading my
response later, I felt that I was mostly unclear. So I'll be explicit: my
remarks were meant to corroborate yours :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

Gene I understood perfectly that your remarks were corroboration of my
comments. Your comments were clear enough for me. Thanks.

--

--
John Barnett MVP
Windows XP Associate Expert
Windows Desktop Experience

Web: [url]http://www.winuser.co.uk[/url]
Web: [url]http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://vistasupport.mvps.org[/url]
Web: [url]http://www.silversurfer-guide.com[/url]

The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any
kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy,
reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for
any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the
use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this
mail/post..


"Gene E. Bloch" <not-me@other.invalid> wrote in message
news:clgjwx9f5hjg.i6b3t8ylc6cq.dlg@40tude.net...[color=blue]
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:07:49 +0100, John Barnett MVP wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>> I have tried to 'permissions' work around a number of times and,
>> unfortunately, it still doesn't work on my machine. As you say, as soon
>> as
>> you click on recdisc.exe, you get a fleeting glimpse of something about
>> to
>> happen and then nothing materialises. Exactly the opposite occurs in
>> Windows
>> 7 were, when you click on recdisc.exe up pops the screen for you to
>> insert a
>> CD into your CD-ROM.
>>
>> I'm currently using Vista with the service pack 2 beta installed so
>> haven't
>> had time to check whether it works on an installation on my machine with
>> just service pack 1.
>>
>> I agree that the OP was interested in Vista and XP, not Windows 7 but I
>> believe Chad was trying to illustrate that Microsoft have included the
>> recdisc.exe feature in Windows 7 by default but decided to hide it in
>> Vista.[/color]
>
> Could well be. Unfortunately, that might not have been of much help to the
> OP ;-)
>
> BTW, I was trying to support your remarks in my post, but on rereading my
> response later, I felt that I was mostly unclear. So I'll be explicit: my
> remarks were meant to corroborate yours :-)
>
> --
> Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom[/color]