New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating from
x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.

Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had performed an
experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a first from
a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.

Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run
Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to use an
upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he found out
was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger the message to
restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued
and completed the installation.

Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be possible
when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating from
Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and
XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His
experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP x86 to Vista x86
(upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64 (migration scenario). What
he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required restarting and running
from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not. In that case entering the UE
pk did NOT trigger the message to restart the computer and run Setup from
the legacy desktop. Setup continued and completed the installation from a
dvd boot even though he had entered an upgrade edition product key.

Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the upgrades,
meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop. When you do so
the Advanced Options (including format) are not be available. The AOs are
only available in Setup when you can start Setup following a dvd boot.
Therefore you can only do a classic clean installation in a scenario that
permits running Setup following a dvd boot (and that should be all the
yellow dots in the Matrix).

The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install Windows,
reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and settings.

Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs a
compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist on the
system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does one of the
following:

(1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent or
higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run Setup
from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do so.

(2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get with (2)
is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if you had run
Setup from the desktop.

(3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.

If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can do a
classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the desktop is
not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and therefore the
system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are available
when booting with the dvd.

Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a Win2k
or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by booting with
the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very welcome news indeed.
It also explains how the process works for XP Pro x64 users when using an UE
pk to migrate to Vista x64.

It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that booting
with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the machine and running
Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when upgrading XP x86 to
Vista x86 and only then if a loss of functionality would not be involved.

Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand report of
any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios. Darrel was
very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I don't think it was
in his job description.

Colin:
Thank you for putting this in a new post. It's very useful
information for all.

--
Dennis Pack
Vista x64 Enterprise
Office 2007
"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating from
> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
>
> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had performed
> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a first
> from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
>
> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run
> Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to use an
> upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he found
> out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger the
> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop.
> Setup continued and completed the installation.
>
> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be possible
> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating from
> Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86
> and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios.
> His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP x86 to Vista x86
> (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64 (migration scenario).
> What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required restarting and
> running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not. In that case
> entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart the computer and
> run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and completed the
> installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered an upgrade edition
> product key.
>
> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the upgrades,
> meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop. When you do so
> the Advanced Options (including format) are not be available. The AOs are
> only available in Setup when you can start Setup following a dvd boot.
> Therefore you can only do a classic clean installation in a scenario that
> permits running Setup following a dvd boot (and that should be all the
> yellow dots in the Matrix).
>
> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and settings.
>
> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs a
> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist on
> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does one of
> the following:
>
> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent or
> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run Setup
> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do so.
>
> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get with (2)
> is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if you had
> run Setup from the desktop.
>
> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
>
> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can do a
> classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the desktop is
> not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and therefore the
> system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are available
> when booting with the dvd.
>
> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP Pro x64
> users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
>
> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the machine
> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of functionality
> would not be involved.
>
> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand report
> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios. Darrel
> was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I don't think
> it was in his job description.
>
>[/color]

You're welcome. It was buried where it was. Other questions remain.

"Dennis Pack" <dennispack@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0A66B1B7-72E1-48AC-A457-EA16A56EE9B2@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Colin:
> Thank you for putting this in a new post. It's very useful
> information for all.
>
> --
> Dennis Pack
> Vista x64 Enterprise
> Office 2007
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating from
>> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
>>
>> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had performed
>> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a
>> first from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
>>
>> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to
>> run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to use
>> an upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he
>> found out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger the
>> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop.
>> Setup continued and completed the installation.
>>
>> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be possible
>> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating
>> from Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with XP
>> x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some
>> scenarios. His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP x86
>> to Vista x86 (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64 (migration
>> scenario). What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required
>> restarting and running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not. In
>> that case entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart the
>> computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and
>> completed the installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered an
>> upgrade edition product key.
>>
>> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the
>> upgrades, meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop.
>> When you do so the Advanced Options (including format) are not be
>> available. The AOs are only available in Setup when you can start Setup
>> following a dvd boot. Therefore you can only do a classic clean
>> installation in a scenario that permits running Setup following a dvd
>> boot (and that should be all the yellow dots in the Matrix).
>>
>> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
>> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
>> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and settings.
>>
>> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs a
>> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist on
>> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does one of
>> the following:
>>
>> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent or
>> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run Setup
>> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do so.
>>
>> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
>> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
>> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get with
>> (2) is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if you
>> had run Setup from the desktop.
>>
>> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
>>
>> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can do
>> a classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the desktop
>> is not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and therefore
>> the system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are
>> available when booting with the dvd.
>>
>> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
>> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
>> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
>> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP Pro
>> x64 users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
>>
>> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
>> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the machine
>> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
>> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of functionality
>> would not be involved.
>>
>> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand report
>> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios.
>> Darrel was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I don't
>> think it was in his job description.
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

Does this mean that, in an example, if I am running XP Pro and want to upgrade to Vista Home Premium, if I boot with the Vista DVD, that it will see there is a qualifying XP installed on the C: drive (lets assume there is only one partition on the drive and no second hard drive), that Vista setup will allow me to reformat the drive and make a clean install (with nothing left from the previous XP Pro install) of Vista on that drive?

"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...
If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can do a
classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the desktop is
not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and therefore the
system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are available
when booting with the dvd.

It may. Darrel didn't report that he did a reformat, but if the compliance check is done and the legacy OS is not needed anymore then it should work to reformat before starting the installation. The format tool is available when you have dvd booted. It sounds to me like it could work out like that. The kicker is that if you are running XP MCE and want to upgrade to Vista Home Premium you will be told to start Setup from the desktop since upgrade is enabled in that scenario according to the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. Weird, eh?

"William" <woogles@charter.net> wrote in message news:%23KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
Does this mean that, in an example, if I am running XP Pro and want to upgrade to Vista Home Premium, if I boot with the Vista DVD, that it will see there is a qualifying XP installed on the C: drive (lets assume there is only one partition on the drive and no second hard drive), that Vista setup will allow me to reformat the drive and make a clean install (with nothing left from the previous XP Pro install) of Vista on that drive?

"Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating from
> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
>
> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had performed
> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a first
> from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
>
> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run
> Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to use an
> upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he found
> out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger the
> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop.
> Setup continued and completed the installation.
>
> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be possible
> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating from
> Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86
> and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios.
> His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP x86 to Vista x86
> (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64 (migration scenario).
> What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required restarting and
> running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not. In that case
> entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart the computer and
> run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and completed the
> installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered an upgrade edition
> product key.
>
> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the upgrades,
> meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop. When you do so
> the Advanced Options (including format) are not be available. The AOs are
> only available in Setup when you can start Setup following a dvd boot.
> Therefore you can only do a classic clean installation in a scenario that
> permits running Setup following a dvd boot (and that should be all the
> yellow dots in the Matrix).
>
> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and settings.
>
> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs a
> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist on
> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does one of
> the following:
>
> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent or
> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run Setup
> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do so.
>
> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get with (2)
> is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if you had
> run Setup from the desktop.
>
> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
>
> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can do a
> classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the desktop is
> not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and therefore the
> system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are available
> when booting with the dvd.
>
> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP Pro x64
> users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
>
> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the machine
> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of functionality
> would not be involved.
>
> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand report
> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios. Darrel
> was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I don't think
> it was in his job description.
>
>[/color]


Thanks for that Colin. Let me see if I've got it right. Please correct me if
wrong.

1) To use a Vista upgrade you have to have a qualifying OS installed on the
computer.

2) If it is possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation that is the
only option available.

3) If it is not possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation then you
can boot from the Vista media and perform a clean install wiping out the
qualifying OS.

This makes sense. I'm not complaining about the way previous Windows
upgrades worked but I often wondered why anyone bought full retail versions
when it was so easy to fool the upgrade. I would like to see a way to work
around #2 and still have a way to ensure the upgrade is legitimate as I
prefer a clean install but I can live with this scenario. I was afraid from
what we had heard previously that you wouldn't be able to use upgrade keys
with OS' that couldn't be upgraded and a clean install was needed.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
[url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]

That's the way I am reading it based on the Upgrade Matrix, the notes that
follow, and Darrel's much more limited experiment. He answered a specific
question relating to a specific scenario, but his result at least indicates
that there are cases where Setup does not require running from the desktop
even when an upgrade edition pk is used.

"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating from
>> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
>>
>> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had performed
>> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a
>> first from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
>>
>> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to
>> run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to use
>> an upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he
>> found out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger the
>> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop.
>> Setup continued and completed the installation.
>>
>> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be possible
>> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating
>> from Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with XP
>> x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some
>> scenarios. His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP x86
>> to Vista x86 (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64 (migration
>> scenario). What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required
>> restarting and running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not. In
>> that case entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart the
>> computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and
>> completed the installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered an
>> upgrade edition product key.
>>
>> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the
>> upgrades, meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop.
>> When you do so the Advanced Options (including format) are not be
>> available. The AOs are only available in Setup when you can start Setup
>> following a dvd boot. Therefore you can only do a classic clean
>> installation in a scenario that permits running Setup following a dvd
>> boot (and that should be all the yellow dots in the Matrix).
>>
>> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
>> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
>> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and settings.
>>
>> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs a
>> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist on
>> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does one of
>> the following:
>>
>> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent or
>> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run Setup
>> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do so.
>>
>> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
>> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
>> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get with
>> (2) is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if you
>> had run Setup from the desktop.
>>
>> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
>>
>> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can do
>> a classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the desktop
>> is not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and therefore
>> the system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are
>> available when booting with the dvd.
>>
>> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
>> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
>> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
>> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP Pro
>> x64 users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
>>
>> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
>> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the machine
>> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
>> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of functionality
>> would not be involved.
>>
>> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand report
>> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios.
>> Darrel was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I don't
>> think it was in his job description.
>>
>>[/color]
>
>
> Thanks for that Colin. Let me see if I've got it right. Please correct me
> if wrong.
>
> 1) To use a Vista upgrade you have to have a qualifying OS installed on
> the computer.
>
> 2) If it is possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation that is the
> only option available.
>
> 3) If it is not possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation then
> you can boot from the Vista media and perform a clean install wiping out
> the qualifying OS.
>
> This makes sense. I'm not complaining about the way previous Windows
> upgrades worked but I often wondered why anyone bought full retail
> versions when it was so easy to fool the upgrade. I would like to see a
> way to work around #2 and still have a way to ensure the upgrade is
> legitimate as I prefer a clean install but I can live with this scenario.
> I was afraid from what we had heard previously that you wouldn't be able
> to use upgrade keys with OS' that couldn't be upgraded and a clean install
> was needed.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> [url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]
>
>[/color]

Hello Colin,
Thanks for doing this. Looks pretty good, a couple of points of clarity.
I didn't check Windows 2000, I only checked against Windows Vista and
Windows XP.
We need to clarfiy between 64-bit and 32-bit media with Upgrade Product
Keys.
If the Windows Vista Media is 32-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product key,
you have to be inside the existing OS to meet the compliance check. You
cannot boot to the DVD and install.
If the Windows Vista Media is 64-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product key
you can boot to the dvd, and if a qualifying OS is located on a local hard
drive, setup will allow you to proceed.
The disk configuration screen happens after the compliance check so you
should able to format the volume and setup should continue. ( I had
multiple blank volumes so I didn't format).
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
|>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
<#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>In-Reply-To: <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
|>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:17:49 -0700
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|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17175
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>It may. Darrel didn't report that he did a reformat, but if the
compliance check is done and the legacy OS is not needed anymore then it
should work to reformat before starting the installation. The format tool
is available when you have dvd booted. It sounds to me like it could work
out like that. The kicker is that if you are running XP MCE and want to
upgrade to Vista Home Premium you will be told to start Setup from the
desktop since upgrade is enabled in that scenario according to the Upgrade
Matrix on Get Ready. Weird, eh?
|>"William" <woogles@charter.net> wrote in message
news:%23KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
|> Does this mean that, in an example, if I am running XP Pro and want to
upgrade to Vista Home Premium, if I boot with the Vista DVD, that it will
see there is a qualifying XP installed on the C: drive (lets assume there
is only one partition on the drive and no second hard drive), that Vista
setup will allow me to reformat the drive and make a clean install (with
nothing left from the previous XP Pro install) of Vista on that drive?
|>

Hello Colin,
That option is limited to 64-bit. It is not available for 32-bit Windows
Vista
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
|>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
<ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
|>In-Reply-To: <ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
|>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
|>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:16:53 -0700
|>Lines: 121
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=response
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <OXGfYaSNHHA.2236@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17191
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>That's the way I am reading it based on the Upgrade Matrix, the notes
that
|>follow, and Darrel's much more limited experiment. He answered a
specific
|>question relating to a specific scenario, but his result at least
indicates
|>that there are cases where Setup does not require running from the
desktop
|>even when an upgrade edition pk is used.
|>
|>"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
|>news:ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
|>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
|>> news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...
|>>> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating
from
|>>> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
|>>>
|>>> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had
performed
|>>> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a
|>>> first from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
|>>>
|>>> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to
|>>> run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to
use
|>>> an upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he
|>>> found out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger
the
|>>> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop.
|>>> Setup continued and completed the installation.
|>>>
|>>> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be
possible
|>>> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating
|>>> from Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with
XP
|>>> x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some
|>>> scenarios. His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP
x86
|>>> to Vista x86 (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64
(migration
|>>> scenario). What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required
|>>> restarting and running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not.
In
|>>> that case entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart
the
|>>> computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and
|>>> completed the installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered
an
|>>> upgrade edition product key.
|>>>
|>>> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the
|>>> upgrades, meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop.
|>>> When you do so the Advanced Options (including format) are not be
|>>> available. The AOs are only available in Setup when you can start
Setup
|>>> following a dvd boot. Therefore you can only do a classic clean
|>>> installation in a scenario that permits running Setup following a dvd
|>>> boot (and that should be all the yellow dots in the Matrix).
|>>>
|>>> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
|>>> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
|>>> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and settings.
|>>>
|>>> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs a
|>>> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist
on
|>>> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does one
of
|>>> the following:
|>>>
|>>> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent or
|>>> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run
Setup
|>>> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do
so.
|>>>
|>>> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
|>>> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
|>>> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get with
|>>> (2) is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if
you
|>>> had run Setup from the desktop.
|>>>
|>>> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
|>>>
|>>> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can
do
|>>> a classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the
desktop
|>>> is not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and
therefore
|>>> the system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are
|>>> available when booting with the dvd.
|>>>
|>>> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
|>>> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
|>>> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
|>>> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP Pro
|>>> x64 users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
|>>>
|>>> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
|>>> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the
machine
|>>> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
|>>> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of functionality
|>>> would not be involved.
|>>>
|>>> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand
report
|>>> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios.
|>>> Darrel was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I
don't
|>>> think it was in his job description.
|>>>
|>>>
|>>
|>>
|>> Thanks for that Colin. Let me see if I've got it right. Please correct
me
|>> if wrong.
|>>
|>> 1) To use a Vista upgrade you have to have a qualifying OS installed on
|>> the computer.
|>>
|>> 2) If it is possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation that is
the
|>> only option available.
|>>
|>> 3) If it is not possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation then
|>> you can boot from the Vista media and perform a clean install wiping
out
|>> the qualifying OS.
|>>
|>> This makes sense. I'm not complaining about the way previous Windows
|>> upgrades worked but I often wondered why anyone bought full retail
|>> versions when it was so easy to fool the upgrade. I would like to see a
|>> way to work around #2 and still have a way to ensure the upgrade is
|>> legitimate as I prefer a clean install but I can live with this
scenario.
|>> I was afraid from what we had heard previously that you wouldn't be
able
|>> to use upgrade keys with OS' that couldn't be upgraded and a clean
install
|>> was needed.
|>>
|>> --
|>> Kerry Brown
|>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
|>> [url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]
|>>
|>>
|>
|>

Have you tried a Win2k to Vista Business or Ultimate x86? How does that
work? Should be easy to do in a vm. What can you do if a second vhd is
available?

""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Hello Colin,
> Thanks for doing this. Looks pretty good, a couple of points of clarity.
> I didn't check Windows 2000, I only checked against Windows Vista and
> Windows XP.
> We need to clarfiy between 64-bit and 32-bit media with Upgrade Product
> Keys.
> If the Windows Vista Media is 32-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product key,
> you have to be inside the existing OS to meet the compliance check. You
> cannot boot to the DVD and install.
> If the Windows Vista Media is 64-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product key
> you can boot to the dvd, and if a qualifying OS is located on a local hard
> drive, setup will allow you to proceed.
> The disk configuration screen happens after the compliance check so you
> should able to format the volume and setup should continue. ( I had
> multiple blank volumes so I didn't format).
> Thanks,
> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
> --------------------
> |>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
> |>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
> <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> |>In-Reply-To: <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> |>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
> |>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:17:49 -0700
> |>Lines: 85
> |>MIME-Version: 1.0
> |>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> |> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_049B_01C734E3.A2B5EA40"
> |>X-Priority: 3
> |>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> |>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
> |>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
> |>Message-ID: <OC2gX5RNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
> |>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17175
> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> |>
> |>It may. Darrel didn't report that he did a reformat, but if the
> compliance check is done and the legacy OS is not needed anymore then it
> should work to reformat before starting the installation. The format tool
> is available when you have dvd booted. It sounds to me like it could work
> out like that. The kicker is that if you are running XP MCE and want to
> upgrade to Vista Home Premium you will be told to start Setup from the
> desktop since upgrade is enabled in that scenario according to the Upgrade
> Matrix on Get Ready. Weird, eh?
> |>"William" <woogles@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:%23KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> |> Does this mean that, in an example, if I am running XP Pro and want to
> upgrade to Vista Home Premium, if I boot with the Vista DVD, that it will
> see there is a qualifying XP installed on the C: drive (lets assume there
> is only one partition on the drive and no second hard drive), that Vista
> setup will allow me to reformat the drive and make a clean install (with
> nothing left from the previous XP Pro install) of Vista on that drive?
> |>
>[/color]

OK. Got it.

""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E1HC6tSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Hello Colin,
> That option is limited to 64-bit. It is not available for 32-bit Windows
> Vista
> Thanks,
> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
> --------------------
> |>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
> |>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
> <ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
> |>In-Reply-To: <ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
> |>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
> |>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:16:53 -0700
> |>Lines: 121
> |>MIME-Version: 1.0
> |>Content-Type: text/plain;
> |> format=flowed;
> |> charset="iso-8859-1";
> |> reply-type=response
> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> |>X-Priority: 3
> |>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> |>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
> |>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
> |>Message-ID: <OXGfYaSNHHA.2236@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
> |>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl
> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17191
> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> |>
> |>That's the way I am reading it based on the Upgrade Matrix, the notes
> that
> |>follow, and Darrel's much more limited experiment. He answered a
> specific
> |>question relating to a specific scenario, but his result at least
> indicates
> |>that there are cases where Setup does not require running from the
> desktop
> |>even when an upgrade edition pk is used.
> |>
> |>"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> |>news:ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> |>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> |>> news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...
> |>>> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating
> from
> |>>> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
> |>>>
> |>>> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had
> performed
> |>>> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a
> |>>> first from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
> |>>>
> |>>> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible
> to
> |>>> run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to
> use
> |>>> an upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he
> |>>> found out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger
> the
> |>>> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy
> desktop.
> |>>> Setup continued and completed the installation.
> |>>>
> |>>> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be
> possible
> |>>> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating
> |>>> from Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with
> XP
> |>>> x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some
> |>>> scenarios. His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP
> x86
> |>>> to Vista x86 (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64
> (migration
> |>>> scenario). What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required
> |>>> restarting and running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not.
> In
> |>>> that case entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart
> the
> |>>> computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and
> |>>> completed the installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered
> an
> |>>> upgrade edition product key.
> |>>>
> |>>> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the
> |>>> upgrades, meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop.
> |>>> When you do so the Advanced Options (including format) are not be
> |>>> available. The AOs are only available in Setup when you can start
> Setup
> |>>> following a dvd boot. Therefore you can only do a classic clean
> |>>> installation in a scenario that permits running Setup following a dvd
> |>>> boot (and that should be all the yellow dots in the Matrix).
> |>>>
> |>>> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
> |>>> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
> |>>> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and
> settings.
> |>>>
> |>>> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs
> a
> |>>> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist
> on
> |>>> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does
> one
> of
> |>>> the following:
> |>>>
> |>>> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent
> or
> |>>> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run
> Setup
> |>>> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do
> so.
> |>>>
> |>>> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
> |>>> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
> |>>> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get
> with
> |>>> (2) is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if
> you
> |>>> had run Setup from the desktop.
> |>>>
> |>>> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
> |>>>
> |>>> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can
> do
> |>>> a classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the
> desktop
> |>>> is not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and
> therefore
> |>>> the system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are
> |>>> available when booting with the dvd.
> |>>>
> |>>> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
> |>>> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
> |>>> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
> |>>> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP
> Pro
> |>>> x64 users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
> |>>>
> |>>> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
> |>>> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the
> machine
> |>>> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
> |>>> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of
> functionality
> |>>> would not be involved.
> |>>>
> |>>> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand
> report
> |>>> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios.
> |>>> Darrel was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I
> don't
> |>>> think it was in his job description.
> |>>>
> |>>>
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Thanks for that Colin. Let me see if I've got it right. Please correct
> me
> |>> if wrong.
> |>>
> |>> 1) To use a Vista upgrade you have to have a qualifying OS installed
> on
> |>> the computer.
> |>>
> |>> 2) If it is possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation that is
> the
> |>> only option available.
> |>>
> |>> 3) If it is not possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation
> then
> |>> you can boot from the Vista media and perform a clean install wiping
> out
> |>> the qualifying OS.
> |>>
> |>> This makes sense. I'm not complaining about the way previous Windows
> |>> upgrades worked but I often wondered why anyone bought full retail
> |>> versions when it was so easy to fool the upgrade. I would like to see
> a
> |>> way to work around #2 and still have a way to ensure the upgrade is
> |>> legitimate as I prefer a clean install but I can live with this
> scenario.
> |>> I was afraid from what we had heard previously that you wouldn't be
> able
> |>> to use upgrade keys with OS' that couldn't be upgraded and a clean
> install
> |>> was needed.
> |>>
> |>> --
> |>> Kerry Brown
> |>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> |>> [url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]
> |>>
> |>>
> |>
> |>
>[/color]

Hello Colin,
What questions are you looking to be answered with this scenario?
What options are presented to the user? ( upgrade or clean install)
I presume running setup from within a running Windows 2000 Pro machine.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
|>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
<#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
<OC2gX5RNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
<zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl>
|>In-Reply-To: <zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl>
|>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
|>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:20:47 -0700
|>Lines: 67
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=original
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
|>X-Priority: 3
|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <uBs1F#SNHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17209
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Have you tried a Win2k to Vista Business or Ultimate x86? How does that
|>work? Should be easy to do in a vm. What can you do if a second vhd is
|>available?
|>
|>""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
|>news:zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...
|>> Hello Colin,
|>> Thanks for doing this. Looks pretty good, a couple of points of
clarity.
|>> I didn't check Windows 2000, I only checked against Windows Vista and
|>> Windows XP.
|>> We need to clarfiy between 64-bit and 32-bit media with Upgrade Product
|>> Keys.
|>> If the Windows Vista Media is 32-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product
key,
|>> you have to be inside the existing OS to meet the compliance check. You
|>> cannot boot to the DVD and install.
|>> If the Windows Vista Media is 64-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product
key
|>> you can boot to the dvd, and if a qualifying OS is located on a local
hard
|>> drive, setup will allow you to proceed.
|>> The disk configuration screen happens after the compliance check so you
|>> should able to format the volume and setup should continue. ( I had
|>> multiple blank volumes so I didn't format).
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
|>> |>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
|>> <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>> |>In-Reply-To: <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>> |>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
|>> |>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:17:49 -0700
|>> |>Lines: 85
|>> |>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>> |>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
|>> |> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_049B_01C734E3.A2B5EA40"
|>> |>X-Priority: 3
|>> |>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>> |>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>> |>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>> |>Message-ID: <OC2gX5RNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
|>> |>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
|>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
|>> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17175
|>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>
|>> |>It may. Darrel didn't report that he did a reformat, but if the
|>> compliance check is done and the legacy OS is not needed anymore then it
|>> should work to reformat before starting the installation. The format
tool
|>> is available when you have dvd booted. It sounds to me like it could
work
|>> out like that. The kicker is that if you are running XP MCE and want to
|>> upgrade to Vista Home Premium you will be told to start Setup from the
|>> desktop since upgrade is enabled in that scenario according to the
Upgrade
|>> Matrix on Get Ready. Weird, eh?
|>> |>"William" <woogles@charter.net> wrote in message
|>> news:%23KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
|>> |> Does this mean that, in an example, if I am running XP Pro and want
to
|>> upgrade to Vista Home Premium, if I boot with the Vista DVD, that it
will
|>> see there is a qualifying XP installed on the C: drive (lets assume
there
|>> is only one partition on the drive and no second hard drive), that Vista
|>> setup will allow me to reformat the drive and make a clean install (with
|>> nothing left from the previous XP Pro install) of Vista on that drive?
|>> |>
|>>
|>
|>

""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:13OdjITNHHA.2080@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Hello Colin,
> What questions are you looking to be answered with this scenario?
> What options are presented to the user? ( upgrade or clean install)
> I presume running setup from within a running Windows 2000 Pro machine.[/color]


I think the question is, at least for me, if you have Windows 2000 installed
and want to use Vista upgrade x86, how do you do the install? According the
upgrade matrix you do qualify for the upgrade version of vista but you must
do a clean install, what Colin has been calling a migration. So do you
start the setup within W2K and get advanced options or do you boot from the
Vista DVD in a manner similar to an upgrade from 32-bit XP to 64-bit Vista.
--
Tom Porterfield

Hi Darrell;

If you have a computer with one hard drive formatted with only one partition with Windows 2000 installed on it and you want to upgrade to Vista, what happens during the install process. Here is the scenario that I would like to see tested.

On this computer, Windows 2000 is installed on the C: drive. This computer has only one hard drive and the hard drive has only one partition. When the computer is booted from the Upgrade Vista DVD, and having an Upgrade Product Key, does the boot sequence check to see if there is a qualifying Windows version (in this case 2000) installed? Does it then permit the user to select that hard drive as the destination for installing Vista? Does it give you the option of formatting (thereby wiping out the Windows 2000 installation) the hard drive before the Vista installation?
""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:13OdjITNHHA.2080@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...
Hello Colin,
What questions are you looking to be answered with this scenario?
What options are presented to the user? ( upgrade or clean install)
I presume running setup from within a running Windows 2000 Pro machine.
Thanks,
Darrell Gorter[MSFT]

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
--------------------
|>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
|>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
<#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
<OC2gX5RNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
<zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl>
|>In-Reply-To: <zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl>
|>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
|>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:20:47 -0700
|>Lines: 67
|>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>Content-Type: text/plain;
|> format=flowed;
|> charset="iso-8859-1";
|> reply-type=original
|>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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|>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>Message-ID: <uBs1F#SNHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>
|>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
|>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl
|>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17209
|>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>
|>Have you tried a Win2k to Vista Business or Ultimate x86? How does that
|>work? Should be easy to do in a vm. What can you do if a second vhd is
|>available?
|>
|>""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
|>news:zpNFPtSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...
|>> Hello Colin,
|>> Thanks for doing this. Looks pretty good, a couple of points of
clarity.
|>> I didn't check Windows 2000, I only checked against Windows Vista and
|>> Windows XP.
|>> We need to clarfiy between 64-bit and 32-bit media with Upgrade Product
|>> Keys.
|>> If the Windows Vista Media is 32-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product
key,
|>> you have to be inside the existing OS to meet the compliance check. You
|>> cannot boot to the DVD and install.
|>> If the Windows Vista Media is 64-bit and you enter an Upgrade Product
key
|>> you can boot to the dvd, and if a qualifying OS is located on a local
hard
|>> drive, setup will allow you to proceed.
|>> The disk configuration screen happens after the compliance check so you
|>> should able to format the volume and setup should continue. ( I had
|>> multiple blank volumes so I didn't format).
|>> Thanks,
|>> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
|>>
|>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
rights
|>> --------------------
|>> |>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
|>> |>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
|>> <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>> |>In-Reply-To: <#KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
|>> |>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
|>> |>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:17:49 -0700
|>> |>Lines: 85
|>> |>MIME-Version: 1.0
|>> |>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
|>> |> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_049B_01C734E3.A2B5EA40"
|>> |>X-Priority: 3
|>> |>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
|>> |>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
|>> |>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
|>> |>Message-ID: <OC2gX5RNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
|>> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
|>> |>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
|>> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
|>> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17175
|>> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
|>> |>
|>> |>It may. Darrel didn't report that he did a reformat, but if the
|>> compliance check is done and the legacy OS is not needed anymore then it
|>> should work to reformat before starting the installation. The format
tool
|>> is available when you have dvd booted. It sounds to me like it could
work
|>> out like that. The kicker is that if you are running XP MCE and want to
|>> upgrade to Vista Home Premium you will be told to start Setup from the
|>> desktop since upgrade is enabled in that scenario according to the
Upgrade
|>> Matrix on Get Ready. Weird, eh?
|>> |>"William" <woogles@charter.net> wrote in message
|>> news:%23KEaImRNHHA.4888@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
|>> |> Does this mean that, in an example, if I am running XP Pro and want
to
|>> upgrade to Vista Home Premium, if I boot with the Vista DVD, that it
will
|>> see there is a qualifying XP installed on the C: drive (lets assume
there
|>> is only one partition on the drive and no second hard drive), that Vista
|>> setup will allow me to reformat the drive and make a clean install (with
|>> nothing left from the previous XP Pro install) of Vista on that drive?
|>> |>
|>>
|>
|>

Thanks for the clarification. Another reason to go to 64 bit :-)

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
[url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]


""Darrell Gorter[MSFT]"" <Darrellg@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:E1HC6tSNHHA.3604@TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Hello Colin,
> That option is limited to 64-bit. It is not available for 32-bit Windows
> Vista
> Thanks,
> Darrell Gorter[MSFT]
>
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights
> --------------------
> |>From: "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com>
> |>References: <D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com>
> <ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
> |>In-Reply-To: <ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl>
> |>Subject: Re: Darrel's experiment with an upgrade edtion
> |>Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:16:53 -0700
> |>Lines: 121
> |>MIME-Version: 1.0
> |>Content-Type: text/plain;
> |> format=flowed;
> |> charset="iso-8859-1";
> |> reply-type=response
> |>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> |>X-Priority: 3
> |>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> |>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16386
> |>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16386
> |>Message-ID: <OXGfYaSNHHA.2236@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>
> |>Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> |>NNTP-Posting-Host: c-24-8-18-135.hsd1.co.comcast.net 24.8.18.135
> |>Path: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP01.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl
> |>Xref: TK2MSFTNGHUB02.phx.gbl
> microsoft.public.windows.vista.general:17191
> |>X-Tomcat-NG: microsoft.public.windows.vista.general
> |>
> |>That's the way I am reading it based on the Upgrade Matrix, the notes
> that
> |>follow, and Darrel's much more limited experiment. He answered a
> specific
> |>question relating to a specific scenario, but his result at least
> indicates
> |>that there are cases where Setup does not require running from the
> desktop
> |>even when an upgrade edition pk is used.
> |>
> |>"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> |>news:ur0Q7ESNHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> |>> "Colin Barnhorst" <colinbarharst@msn.com> wrote in message
> |>> news:D3B1BD07-AECC-4E23-8486-FE5E98ED803B@microsoft.com...
> |>>> New info on "clean" installations and the implications for migrating
> from
> |>>> x86 to x64 with an upgrade edition.
> |>>>
> |>>> Darrel Gorter replied in one of the ng's yesterday that he had
> performed
> |>>> an experiment for us with an upgrade edition product key. This is a
> |>>> first from a Microsoft person. Thank you very much, Darrel.
> |>>>
> |>>> Based on Darrel's experiment with XP x86 and XP x64, it IS possible
> to
> |>>> run Setup from a dvd boot in some scenarios. His experiment was to
> use
> |>>> an upgrade product key with one of the yellow dot scenarios. What he
> |>>> found out was that in those cases entering the UE pk does NOT trigger
> the
> |>>> message to restart the computer and run Setup from the legacy
> desktop.
> |>>> Setup continued and completed the installation.
> |>>>
> |>>> Darrel's findings showed that a classic clean install may not be
> possible
> |>>> when upgrading from XP x86 to Vista x86, but should be when migrating
> |>>> from Win2k or XP Pro x64 to Vista. Based on Darrel's experiment with
> XP
> |>>> x86 and XP x64, it IS possible to run Setup from a dvd boot in some
> |>>> scenarios. His experiment was to use an upgrade product key with XP
> x86
> |>>> to Vista x86 (upgrade scenario) and with XP x64 to Vista x64
> (migration
> |>>> scenario). What he found out was that XP x86 to Vista x86 required
> |>>> restarting and running from the desktop, but XP x64 to Vista did not.
> In
> |>>> that case entering the UE pk did NOT trigger the message to restart
> the
> |>>> computer and run Setup from the legacy desktop. Setup continued and
> |>>> completed the installation from a dvd boot even though he had entered
> an
> |>>> upgrade edition product key.
> |>>>
> |>>> Look at the Upgrade Matrix on Get Ready. The green dots are the
> |>>> upgrades, meaning that you will have to run Setup from an XP desktop.
> |>>> When you do so the Advanced Options (including format) are not be
> |>>> available. The AOs are only available in Setup when you can start
> Setup
> |>>> following a dvd boot. Therefore you can only do a classic clean
> |>>> installation in a scenario that permits running Setup following a dvd
> |>>> boot (and that should be all the yellow dots in the Matrix).
> |>>>
> |>>> The yellow dots in the Matrix are what I prefer to call migrations.
> |>>> Migrations are where you save all your files and settings, install
> |>>> Windows, reinstall your apps, and then restore your files and
> settings.
> |>>>
> |>>> Darrel said that he believes that upon entry of an UE pk, Setup runs
> a
> |>>> compliance check to see if any qualifying Windows installations exist
> on
> |>>> the system that qualify for upgrade pricing and based on that does
> one
> of
> |>>> the following:
> |>>>
> |>>> (1) If there is an XP edition that can be upgraded to an equivalent
> or
> |>>> higher edition of Vista then you get the message to restart and run
> Setup
> |>>> from the XP desktop. The upgrade option will be enabled when you do
> so.
> |>>>
> |>>> (2) If there is a Win2k, XP Pro x64, or version of XP that would lose
> |>>> functionality (XP Pro to Vista Home Premium, for example), then Setup
> |>>> continues without requiring running from a desktop. What you get
> with
> |>>> (2) is a migration. The upgrade option would have been disabled if
> you
> |>>> had run Setup from the desktop.
> |>>>
> |>>> (3) If none is found you should have purchased a full edition.
> |>>>
> |>>> If (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that you can
> do
> |>>> a classic clean installation of Vista as long as running from the
> desktop
> |>>> is not required because (a) the legacy OS is not running (and
> therefore
> |>>> the system drive can be formatted) and (b) the Advanced Options are
> |>>> available when booting with the dvd.
> |>>>
> |>>> Also, if (2) holds true for all the yellow dots, it would mean that a
> |>>> Win2k or XP x86 user could migrate from x86 to x64 with an UE pk by
> |>>> booting with the x64 dvd instead of the x86 dvd. That will be very
> |>>> welcome news indeed. It also explains how the process works for XP
> Pro
> |>>> x64 users when using an UE pk to migrate to Vista x64.
> |>>>
> |>>> It appears that Darrel's and Carey's statements a few weeks ago that
> |>>> booting with a dvd and entering a UE pk required restarting the
> machine
> |>>> and running Setup from the legacy desktop were ONLY applicable when
> |>>> upgrading XP x86 to Vista x86 and only then if a loss of
> functionality
> |>>> would not be involved.
> |>>>
> |>>> Until Darrel's reply yesterday I had not seen a single first hand
> report
> |>>> of any attempt to use an UE pk in one of the yellow dot scenarios.
> |>>> Darrel was very gracious to take the time to do it for us because I
> don't
> |>>> think it was in his job description.
> |>>>
> |>>>
> |>>
> |>>
> |>> Thanks for that Colin. Let me see if I've got it right. Please correct
> me
> |>> if wrong.
> |>>
> |>> 1) To use a Vista upgrade you have to have a qualifying OS installed
> on
> |>> the computer.
> |>>
> |>> 2) If it is possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation that is
> the
> |>> only option available.
> |>>
> |>> 3) If it is not possible to upgrade the qualifying OS installation
> then
> |>> you can boot from the Vista media and perform a clean install wiping
> out
> |>> the qualifying OS.
> |>>
> |>> This makes sense. I'm not complaining about the way previous Windows
> |>> upgrades worked but I often wondered why anyone bought full retail
> |>> versions when it was so easy to fool the upgrade. I would like to see
> a
> |>> way to work around #2 and still have a way to ensure the upgrade is
> |>> legitimate as I prefer a clean install but I can live with this
> scenario.
> |>> I was afraid from what we had heard previously that you wouldn't be
> able
> |>> to use upgrade keys with OS' that couldn't be upgraded and a clean
> install
> |>> was needed.
> |>>
> |>> --
> |>> Kerry Brown
> |>> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> |>> [url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]
> |>>
> |>>
> |>
> |>
>[/color]