On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 23:17:00 -0700, Munchichic
<Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>The "version I want" is the same that is "on my computer"; I'm not asking for
>a free upgrade. I'm not asking for anything that isn't already paid for
>actually. I don't even have the product key for the OS either which I'm also
>not comfortable with. It's not like the OS cost more than the computer (the
>OS has a MSRP of $129.95). Like I mentioned, I know several people who have
>purchased Dell computers and have requested the OEM OS disc and got it.[/color]

You are mistaken, or they lied to you. They didn't get a Vista
installation disc, they got a recovery disc that would restore their
system to out-of-the-box condition..

[color=blue]
> I just don't understand why I'm being denied that. I have a Dell CD that came
>with the computer but it's a DELL CD, not Microsoft; and it has a bunch of
>other Dell stuff on it that I don't want. There is an image file of over 3 GB
>on a partition, but it's too large to be transferred over to disc. I need a
>physical copy of the OS for backup purposes only (I'm not trying to steal
>anything or install it on another computer). Why does it seem like I'm asking
>for the WORLD when I just want a legitimate, stand alone OEM OS disc for
>backup purposes ONLY? Surely Microsoft can verify if I'm doing a reinstall on
>the SAME computer that the OS originally came with to verify I'm not breaking
>the law. Why am I the only Dell customer I know that is having this problem
>when other Dell customers had no issue whatsoever? Something seems really
>fishy here with Dell, hence more of a reason to want the OEM OS disc.
>
>"Nonny" wrote:
>[color=green]
>> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:30:00 -0700, Munchichic
>> <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>> >Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to ask.
>> >After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420 desktop PC.
>> >My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista Home Premium.
>> >I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a backup. They
>> >refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell computers
>> >and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it without
>> >incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be entitled to a
>> >copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell preloaded with a
>> >bunch of Dell crap on it.[/color]
>>
>> The version you have on your computer cost far less than the one you
>> want. You can't get the one you want, no matter how loud you yell or
>> who you yell to/at.
>>
>> If your computer came with a recovery disc, that's all you get. If it
>> didn't, there are instructions on how to burn one from the "D"
>> partition - either in your manual, or online at Dell.com
>>[color=darkred]
>> >Why can't I receive an original Windows CD like
>> >everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am I doing
>> >wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new computer and
>> >think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it will
>> >have the same product key that was used to install on my new Dell). Thank you.[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

"##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
news:%23RKeIzj7IHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=green]
>> "Alias" <aka@mascaradoyanónimo.cat> wrote in message
>> news:g6c5b2$bnk$1@aioe.org...[color=darkred]
>>> Munchichic wrote:
>>>> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to
>>>> ask. After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420
>>>> desktop PC. My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft
>>>> Vista Home Premium. I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation
>>>> CD as a backup. They refused. I have several friends and relatives who
>>>> purchased Dell computers and many of them requested the same disc from
>>>> Dell and received it without incident (some within the last 2 months).
>>>> I think I should be entitled to a copy of the installation CD and not
>>>> one that is from Dell preloaded with a bunch of Dell crap on it. Why
>>>> can't I receive an original Windows CD like everyone else has
>>>> requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am I doing wrong? Any
>>>> help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new computer and think
>>>> that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it will
>>>> have the same product key that was used to install on my new Dell).
>>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> My question is why you forked over the cash when they wouldn't give you
>>> what you wanted. Now that they have your money, you're not really in a
>>> good bargaining position. Next time, get a white box.
>>>
>>> Alias[/color]
>>
>> They gave him exactly what he ordered and it will include a method of
>> recovery to as shipped.
>> There is no reason to expect or assume you would be provided with a
>> generic OEM Windows DVD - why would Dell want to ship these? since as
>> the OEM they are responsible for support of both the hardware and
>> OS/software as shipped to you. So as regards reinstallation they must be
>> able to guarantee a known state and that is the one of their image they
>> provide on the recovery media. If they gave you a generic OEM DVD they
>> would be helping you mess up your machine then have to deal with all the
>> people who may call for support expecting it as they used "the disk Dell
>> supplied" - but that machine is in an unknown state. This is why
>> reinstallation by any means other then the recovery media puts you
>> outside of the warrantee and support for your Dell device.
>>
>> Now you and many others may be happy to provide you own support for your
>> own machine and want to install your own operating system - in that case
>> you need to supply your own license and media etc. The average man in
>> the street is not interest din OS installations etc and a recovery system
>> that gets them back to as shipped is fine for over 99% of the regular PC
>> users. If you want to be a special case then you expect that and do
>> whatever you want but there is no point in blaming Microsoft or Dell for
>> supporting the majority of the PC buying general public in preference to
>> the actually tiny percentage that want to build there own system etc,.
>> Remember the vast majority of home PC users these days want it to be like
>> a toaster - they just power it on and it works. The after three years
>> they replace it with another one. That is the market the OEMs are in -
>> which is why as often cited retail sales of Vista or any other OS
>> including even upgrades is actually remarkably small - the over whelming
>> majority of users buy a device add some peripherals then replace it after
>> a few years.
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Your disdain for computer users is right up there with MS and the boys.
> The buying public doesn't know any better so let's take advantage of them
> and sell them a "restore" method that reloads the Norton, McAfee type
> trial crap that is a royal PIA to remove. There's no reason why Dell, HP,
> etc. can't provide a DVD that restores Windows and the Drivers with no
> crapware included.
>
> I don't know who you've been hanging out with but I know very few people
> who replace their computers every three years.
>[/color]

I am not showing any disdain for computer users - in fact the point is the
majority of computer users get exactly what they expect and need from the
OEM sector on terms of provision of cheap Windows and other OEM supplied
products - and a means to get the system back to "as shipped" in the event
of a catastrophic issue. You just seem not to be able to understand that
your sector of users - those who wish to do OS installs etc are tiny in
comparison to what is now a commodity product market place and not the odd
shop here and there techie world that it was a number of years ago.

Now taking your point of "There's no reason why Dell, HP, etc. can't
provide a DVD that restores Windows and the Drivers with no crapware
included." technically ignoring the as you refer to it as "crapware" they
do - the recovery media does restore the OS and drivers to a supported and
known good state.
The crapware is just part of the bigger marketing and now commodity market,
and has no significant impact on the end user who does not want to use it -
it can be removed or uninstalled.
There are any number of analogies you can use to cover off this - but the
fact remains PCs are now commodity items that do get replaced in many cases
3 years or even less in both the home and corporate spaces. (I can
absolutely say I see tens of thousands of machine replaced every year in the
corp space and the home market replacement cycle is in many ways what is
keeping the OEMs in business - yes there is still huge growth in new PC
acquisition but the number shipped include massive amounts of replacements
year on year).


--

Mike Brannigan
[color=blue]
> Alias[/color]

Mike Brannigan
"##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
news:%23AEeEwj7IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=green]
>> Mike Brannigan
>> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
>> news:eGTFyaj7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>>>> "Munchichic" <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:7603593E-14EB-4C8F-BCEE-DB8A4456BB24@microsoft.com...
>>>>> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to
>>>>> ask.
>>>>> After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420
>>>>> desktop PC.
>>>>> My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista Home
>>>>> Premium.
>>>>> I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a backup.
>>>>> They
>>>>> refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell
>>>>> computers
>>>>> and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it
>>>>> without
>>>>> incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be entitled
>>>>> to a
>>>>> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell preloaded
>>>>> with a
>>>>> bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows CD
>>>>> like
>>>>> everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am I
>>>>> doing
>>>>> wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new
>>>>> computer and
>>>>> think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it
>>>>> will
>>>>> have the same product key that was used to install on my new Dell).
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Dell have done nothing wrong.
>>>
>>> Of course not, ripping people off as long as Microsoft approves it is
>>> just fine and dandy.
>>>
>>> Snip long winded justification for the rip off.
>>>
>>> Alias[/color]
>>
>> Where's the rip off?
>> The buyer of a Dell PC gets a machine preinstalled with Windows and
>> whatever else Dell want to put on there.
>> And then they provide you with a method to get it back to just as you
>> bought it.
>> No one is promised anything else. What else do you expect and why ?
>> And in particular why do you think you need or should have anything more
>> then to get the machine back to exactly as how you got it when you
>> ordered it ?[/color]
>
> You see, the scam is so generalized that you think it's normal to load a
> computer with crap and sell it without providing a real copy of Windows.
> Dell, Microsoft and the boys know that most people are not aware of what's
> being done so they take full and complete advantage of their ignorance and
> shills like you defend it. The proper way to sell a machine is to include
> a copy of Windows and a CD with all the drivers without trial crap that in
> many cases is a real PIA to remove. But, hell, MS is happy; Dell is happy;
> the vendors of programs like Norton are happy and the computer user is
> screwed but three out of four ain't bad, right? And MS prices it so that
> white box makers, who really provide what should be provided, have a hard
> time competing.
>
> Alias[/color]

You do get a real (genuine) copy of Windows - it is preinstalled.
Most people do not want or need a generic OS DVD as they have no need to
move themselves out of support by doing anything other then recovering to as
shipped.
You need to stop thinking about your own situation as a none standard user
who may do OS reinstalls etc, and remember the millions of PC users who just
use the device and don't do any reinstalls etc.
Why do you think "the computer user is screwed"? they get the machine they
get an OS at a tiny fraction of what they would have paid retail then get it
preconfigured and ready to use of the the box with additional software that
many may find useful (and those that do not can either just delete the icons
or uninstall it) and the only people here complaining are ones like you who
are the exception to the vast majority of PC users today. (Yes I realize
that a number of years ago the techie user was the predominant PC user but
not today).
Microsoft may price their OS as they see fit (with large scale royalty OEMs,
generic OEM products in multiple packs, or singles and retail products too)
to recover the massive R&D costs and to incentivize OEMs to ship their OS.
There is no point bitching that the white box manufacturer who may wish to
ship a few Windows here and there as well as sell other OS or none OS
machines
should be given the same pricing as a massive royalty OEM who commits to
ship tens of thousands of systems. This is no different to the purchase of
a single retail copy of Office for $x00's dollars vs a large company getting
an Enterprise Agreement for 20,000 seats and paying the equivalent of $x0's
dollars. This is just market forces at work (Microsoft can depend on the
revenue stream from a royalty OEM or Enterprise Agreements but retail and
one offs are not great business sense.)


--

What Is the Extra Partition on My Hard Drive Used For?
[url]http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?journalid=52AD689EC91954E7E040AE0AB5E1404F&docid=E8643B4D68407118E030030ABD622934[/url]

Restoring Your Computer's Software to the Factory Settings:
[url]http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dsn/en/document?journalid=52AD689EC91954E7E040AE0AB5E1404F&docid=3E48AE3870775D64E040A68F5B2877D4#4[/url]

You can request backup discs if you no longer have the original media installation CD/DVD:
[url]https://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/dellcare/en/backupcd_form[/url]

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Desktop Experience -
Windows Vista Enthusiast

---------------------------------------------------------------

"Munchichic" wrote:

Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to ask.
After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420 desktop PC.
My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista Home Premium.
I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a backup. They
refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell computers
and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it without
incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be entitled to a
copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell preloaded with a
bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows CD like
everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am I doing
wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new computer and
think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it will
have the same product key that was used to install on my new Dell). Thank you.

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 22:30:00 -0700, Munchichic
<Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to ask.
> After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420 desktop PC.
> My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista Home Premium.
> I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a backup. They
> refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell computers
> and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it without
> incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be entitled to a
> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell preloaded with a
> bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows CD like
> everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am I doing
> wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new computer and
> think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it will
> have the same product key that was used to install on my new Dell). Thank you.[/color]


Several points:

1. Like you, I think that all computers that come with a pre-installed
operating system should come with an installed CD or DVD for that
operating system.

2. But neither you nor I get to make the rules for Dell or for anyone
else. They have the right to offer a computer for sale under the terms
they did. In this case, it was *you* who failed to find out in advance
exactly what you were getting for your $1000. If you didn't like what
you were getting, you should have taken your business elsewhere. The
rule of "caveat emptor" applies.

3. Like other OEM vendors, over the years Dell has changed their
policy on this. I have a Dell laptop that I bought about four or five
years ago. I have an OEM installation CD for the Windows XP version
that is installed on it.

4. As far as I know, Dell no longer offers Installation CDs or DVDs
with their computers. When you say "many of them requested the same
disc from Dell and received it without incident (some within the last
2 months)," I strongly suspect that you are wrong and they (at least
those of them who got a CD recently) did not get what you think they
got.

5. Dell computers (and those from many other OEM manufacturers) now
come with a recovery partition in lieu of any installation or recovery
CD or DVD. They come with instructions to burn the contents of that
partition to a CD or DVD. To me that's not a wonderful alternative,
but it's far better than nothing, and I urge you to follow those
instructions immediately.

When you buy a computer from one of the big-name OEM manufacturers
like Dell, you usually get a very good price. But what you don't get
is the ability to choose exactly what you get--the brand and model of
each of the components in the computer, what software is installed or
not installed, what CDs and DVDs you get, etc.--choices you would have
if you dealt with a local custom builder instead. It's your choice:
you can pay less and get whatever they offer, or you can pay more and
get whatever you want. Don't blame Dell if you made the wrong choice.

My personal choice, by the way (for desktops, anyway) is to pay a
little more, have my computers built by a local builder, and get
whatever *I* want.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Mike -

Attempting to carry on an intelligent conversation with "Alias"
is pointless...he is not intelligent nor does he possess any
rational thinking or reading comprehension skills!

Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=blue]
> Mike Brannigan
> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
> news:%23AEeEwj7IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Mike Brannigan
>>> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
>>> news:eGTFyaj7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>>>>> "Munchichic" <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>>>>> message news:7603593E-14EB-4C8F-BCEE-DB8A4456BB24@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need
>>>>>> to ask.
>>>>>> After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420
>>>>>> desktop PC.
>>>>>> My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista
>>>>>> Home Premium.
>>>>>> I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a
>>>>>> backup. They
>>>>>> refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell
>>>>>> computers
>>>>>> and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it
>>>>>> without
>>>>>> incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be
>>>>>> entitled to a
>>>>>> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell
>>>>>> preloaded with a
>>>>>> bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows
>>>>>> CD like
>>>>>> everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am
>>>>>> I doing
>>>>>> wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new
>>>>>> computer and
>>>>>> think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect
>>>>>> it will
>>>>>> have the same product key that was used to install on my new
>>>>>> Dell). Thank you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dell have done nothing wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Of course not, ripping people off as long as Microsoft approves it
>>>> is just fine and dandy.
>>>>
>>>> Snip long winded justification for the rip off.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>> Where's the rip off?
>>> The buyer of a Dell PC gets a machine preinstalled with Windows and
>>> whatever else Dell want to put on there.
>>> And then they provide you with a method to get it back to just as you
>>> bought it.
>>> No one is promised anything else. What else do you expect and why ?
>>> And in particular why do you think you need or should have anything
>>> more then to get the machine back to exactly as how you got it when
>>> you ordered it ?[/color]
>>
>> You see, the scam is so generalized that you think it's normal to load
>> a computer with crap and sell it without providing a real copy of
>> Windows. Dell, Microsoft and the boys know that most people are not
>> aware of what's being done so they take full and complete advantage of
>> their ignorance and shills like you defend it. The proper way to sell
>> a machine is to include a copy of Windows and a CD with all the
>> drivers without trial crap that in many cases is a real PIA to remove.
>> But, hell, MS is happy; Dell is happy; the vendors of programs like
>> Norton are happy and the computer user is screwed but three out of
>> four ain't bad, right? And MS prices it so that white box makers, who
>> really provide what should be provided, have a hard time competing.
>>
>> Alias[/color]
>
> You do get a real (genuine) copy of Windows - it is preinstalled.[/color]

One of my points.
[color=blue]
> Most people do not want or need a generic OS DVD as they have no need to
> move themselves out of support by doing anything other then recovering
> to as
> shipped.[/color]

You speak for Mike, not for "most people" and it should be shipped with
a recovery CD that includes the OS and the drivers for the hardware,
nothing more.
[color=blue]
> You need to stop thinking about your own situation as a none standard user
> who may do OS reinstalls etc, and remember the millions of PC users who
> just
> use the device and don't do any reinstalls etc.[/color]

LOL! You don't get out much, do you?
[color=blue]
> Why do you think "the computer user is screwed"? they get the machine they
> get an OS at a tiny fraction of what they would have paid retail then
> get it
> preconfigured and ready to use of the the box with additional software that
> many may find useful (and those that do not can either just delete the
> icons
> or uninstall it) and the only people here complaining are ones like you who
> are the exception to the vast majority of PC users today.[/color]

This and the office newsgroups are full of complaints about the trial
software like Office 07, Norton and McAfee.
[color=blue]
> (Yes I realize
> that a number of years ago the techie user was the predominant PC user but
> not today).[/color]

That was many, many years ago, like over a decade.
[color=blue]
> Microsoft may price their OS as they see fit (with large scale royalty
> OEMs,
> generic OEM products in multiple packs, or singles and retail products too)
> to recover the massive R&D costs and to incentivize OEMs to ship their OS.
> There is no point bitching that the white box manufacturer who may wish to
> ship a few Windows here and there as well as sell other OS or none OS
> machines
> should be given the same pricing as a massive royalty OEM who commits to
> ship tens of thousands of systems. This is no different to the purchase of
> a single retail copy of Office for $x00's dollars vs a large company
> getting
> an Enterprise Agreement for 20,000 seats and paying the equivalent of $x0's
> dollars. This is just market forces at work (Microsoft can depend on the
> revenue stream from a royalty OEM or Enterprise Agreements but retail and
> one offs are not great business sense.)[/color]

Nice try but it's still a rip off and the scam is predicated on the
purchaser's ignorance. Hence this and other newsgroups are full of
complaints.

Alias

Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=blue]
> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
> news:%23RKeIzj7IHA.3648@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Mike Brannigan wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> "Alias" <aka@mascaradoyanónimo.cat> wrote in message
>>> news:g6c5b2$bnk$1@aioe.org...
>>>> Munchichic wrote:
>>>>> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to
>>>>> ask. After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS
>>>>> 420 desktop PC. My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with
>>>>> Microsoft Vista Home Premium. I asked Dell for an original
>>>>> Microsoft installation CD as a backup. They refused. I have several
>>>>> friends and relatives who purchased Dell computers and many of them
>>>>> requested the same disc from Dell and received it without incident
>>>>> (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be entitled to a
>>>>> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell preloaded
>>>>> with a bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original
>>>>> Windows CD like everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong
>>>>> person? What am I doing wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just
>>>>> spent $1000 on this new computer and think that should entitle me
>>>>> to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it will have the same product
>>>>> key that was used to install on my new Dell). Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> My question is why you forked over the cash when they wouldn't give
>>>> you what you wanted. Now that they have your money, you're not
>>>> really in a good bargaining position. Next time, get a white box.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>> They gave him exactly what he ordered and it will include a method of
>>> recovery to as shipped.
>>> There is no reason to expect or assume you would be provided with a
>>> generic OEM Windows DVD - why would Dell want to ship these? since
>>> as the OEM they are responsible for support of both the hardware and
>>> OS/software as shipped to you. So as regards reinstallation they
>>> must be able to guarantee a known state and that is the one of their
>>> image they provide on the recovery media. If they gave you a generic
>>> OEM DVD they would be helping you mess up your machine then have to
>>> deal with all the people who may call for support expecting it as
>>> they used "the disk Dell supplied" - but that machine is in an
>>> unknown state. This is why reinstallation by any means other then
>>> the recovery media puts you outside of the warrantee and support for
>>> your Dell device.
>>>
>>> Now you and many others may be happy to provide you own support for
>>> your own machine and want to install your own operating system - in
>>> that case you need to supply your own license and media etc. The
>>> average man in the street is not interest din OS installations etc
>>> and a recovery system that gets them back to as shipped is fine for
>>> over 99% of the regular PC users. If you want to be a special case
>>> then you expect that and do whatever you want but there is no point
>>> in blaming Microsoft or Dell for supporting the majority of the PC
>>> buying general public in preference to the actually tiny percentage
>>> that want to build there own system etc,. Remember the vast majority
>>> of home PC users these days want it to be like a toaster - they just
>>> power it on and it works. The after three years they replace it with
>>> another one. That is the market the OEMs are in - which is why as
>>> often cited retail sales of Vista or any other OS including even
>>> upgrades is actually remarkably small - the over whelming majority of
>>> users buy a device add some peripherals then replace it after a few
>>> years.
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Your disdain for computer users is right up there with MS and the
>> boys. The buying public doesn't know any better so let's take
>> advantage of them and sell them a "restore" method that reloads the
>> Norton, McAfee type trial crap that is a royal PIA to remove. There's
>> no reason why Dell, HP, etc. can't provide a DVD that restores Windows
>> and the Drivers with no crapware included.
>>
>> I don't know who you've been hanging out with but I know very few
>> people who replace their computers every three years.
>>[/color]
>
> I am not showing any disdain for computer users - in fact the point is
> the majority of computer users get exactly what they expect and need
> from the OEM sector on terms of provision of cheap Windows and other OEM
> supplied products - and a means to get the system back to "as shipped"
> in the event of a catastrophic issue. You just seem not to be able to
> understand that your sector of users - those who wish to do OS installs
> etc are tiny in comparison to what is now a commodity product market
> place and not the odd shop here and there techie world that it was a
> number of years ago.
>
> Now taking your point of "There's no reason why Dell, HP, etc. can't
> provide a DVD that restores Windows and the Drivers with no crapware
> included." technically ignoring the as you refer to it as "crapware"
> they do - the recovery media does restore the OS and drivers to a
> supported and known good state.
> The crapware is just part of the bigger marketing and now commodity
> market, and has no significant impact on the end user who does not want
> to use it - it can be removed or uninstalled.
> There are any number of analogies you can use to cover off this - but
> the fact remains PCs are now commodity items that do get replaced in
> many cases 3 years or even less in both the home and corporate spaces.
> (I can absolutely say I see tens of thousands of machine replaced every
> year in the corp space and the home market replacement cycle is in many
> ways what is keeping the OEMs in business - yes there is still huge
> growth in new PC acquisition but the number shipped include massive
> amounts of replacements year on year).
>
>[/color]

You are sure that the hidden recovery partition and the inclusion of
trial ware is fine and dandy with the ignorant masses you claim to not
disdain?

I guess you don't read many newsgroups.

Alias

Terminator wrote:[color=blue]
> Mike -
>
> Attempting to carry on an intelligent conversation with "Alias"
> is pointless...he is not intelligent nor does he possess any
> rational thinking or reading comprehension skills![/color]

The usual shoot the messenger and not address content from the
Terminator. Ho hum.

Alias

For the record, I agree with Alias. And here is my opinion. I feel it is the
CUSTOMER'S RIGHT to decide what they DO or DO NOT want on their own computer.
Therefore, it should be UP TO THE CUSTOMER to decide what to install. I'd
rather have a blank computer upon purchase and load all of the software
myself rather than having it pre-installed with a bunch of Dell (or any other
company) crap on it. Just because I bought a Dell computer system does NOT
automatically mean I WANT the rest of what Dell may have to offer. It's like
saying I'll buy a new freight truck and expecting to leave with the ENTIRE
FLEET just because they ASSUMED that because I liked ONE I wanted ALL.

I therefore do not agree that a restore option should ONLY be available to
restore the computer back to it's "out of the box" condition; especially when
I'd be installing only ONE of the options that it originally came with vs.
the actual number. Like I mentioned previously I am NOT asking for anything
MORE than what is paid. It should be MY choice to decide what IS installed;
not what I NEED TO UNINSTALL to have the computer set up to my
specifications. "Techie" or not, this should be an option available to ALL
CUSTOMERS. Normally I would have built this desktop myself but because of
time constraints due to an unexpected crash this was not possible. This does
not give any manufacturer the right to overwhelm me (or my computer) with a
bunch of crap that they have no knowledge that I actually want. I don't care
if it's a marketing ploy or not. Let the CUSTOMER choose what they want on
their computer rather than have the manufacturer automatically install
whatever the heck they want and force the customer to then select and
uninstall all of the "additions". I don't think there is anything wrong with
this since the customer is paying for the computer. It's our hard earned
money and we should have every right to spend it as we see fit. It should be
OUR choice to install whatever options we want on a computer. Forcing us to
buy something pre-installed with anything we did not specifically request
inconveniences us and forces us to waste time when having to remove these
options from the computer. If they want to push the marketing strategy they
can just simply include a disc with all of this crap on it vs. taking the
liberty to pre-install it. They'd still be getting THEIR WAY by forcing their
crap upon us, but it would put the choice back in the customer's hands where
it rightfully belongs.

##Alias## wrote:
[color=blue]
> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Mike Brannigan
>> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
>> news:%23AEeEwj7IHA.3624@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mike Brannigan
>>>> "##Alias##" <aka@masked&anonymous.ec> wrote in message
>>>> news:eGTFyaj7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>>
>>>>> Mike Brannigan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Munchichic" <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>>>>>> message news:7603593E-14EB-4C8F-BCEE-DB8A4456BB24@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need
>>>>>>> to ask.
>>>>>>> After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420
>>>>>>> desktop PC.
>>>>>>> My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista
>>>>>>> Home Premium.
>>>>>>> I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a
>>>>>>> backup. They
>>>>>>> refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell
>>>>>>> computers
>>>>>>> and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received
>>>>>>> it without
>>>>>>> incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be
>>>>>>> entitled to a
>>>>>>> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell
>>>>>>> preloaded with a
>>>>>>> bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows
>>>>>>> CD like
>>>>>>> everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What
>>>>>>> am I doing
>>>>>>> wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new
>>>>>>> computer and
>>>>>>> think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect
>>>>>>> it will
>>>>>>> have the same product key that was used to install on my new
>>>>>>> Dell). Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dell have done nothing wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course not, ripping people off as long as Microsoft approves it
>>>>> is just fine and dandy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Snip long winded justification for the rip off.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Where's the rip off?
>>>> The buyer of a Dell PC gets a machine preinstalled with Windows and
>>>> whatever else Dell want to put on there.
>>>> And then they provide you with a method to get it back to just as
>>>> you bought it.
>>>> No one is promised anything else. What else do you expect and why ?
>>>> And in particular why do you think you need or should have anything
>>>> more then to get the machine back to exactly as how you got it when
>>>> you ordered it ?
>>>
>>>
>>> You see, the scam is so generalized that you think it's normal to
>>> load a computer with crap and sell it without providing a real copy
>>> of Windows. Dell, Microsoft and the boys know that most people are
>>> not aware of what's being done so they take full and complete
>>> advantage of their ignorance and shills like you defend it. The
>>> proper way to sell a machine is to include a copy of Windows and a CD
>>> with all the drivers without trial crap that in many cases is a real
>>> PIA to remove. But, hell, MS is happy; Dell is happy; the vendors of
>>> programs like Norton are happy and the computer user is screwed but
>>> three out of four ain't bad, right? And MS prices it so that white
>>> box makers, who really provide what should be provided, have a hard
>>> time competing.
>>>
>>> Alias[/color]
>>
>>
>> You do get a real (genuine) copy of Windows - it is preinstalled.[/color]
>
>
> One of my points.
>[color=green]
>> Most people do not want or need a generic OS DVD as they have no need to
>> move themselves out of support by doing anything other then recovering
>> to as
>> shipped.[/color]
>
>
> You speak for Mike, not for "most people" and it should be shipped with
> a recovery CD that includes the OS and the drivers for the hardware,
> nothing more.
>[color=green]
>> You need to stop thinking about your own situation as a none standard
>> user
>> who may do OS reinstalls etc, and remember the millions of PC users
>> who just
>> use the device and don't do any reinstalls etc.[/color]
>
>
> LOL! You don't get out much, do you?
>[color=green]
>> Why do you think "the computer user is screwed"? they get the machine
>> they
>> get an OS at a tiny fraction of what they would have paid retail then
>> get it
>> preconfigured and ready to use of the the box with additional software
>> that
>> many may find useful (and those that do not can either just delete the
>> icons
>> or uninstall it) and the only people here complaining are ones like
>> you who
>> are the exception to the vast majority of PC users today.[/color]
>
>
> This and the office newsgroups are full of complaints about the trial
> software like Office 07, Norton and McAfee.
>[color=green]
>> (Yes I realize
>> that a number of years ago the techie user was the predominant PC user
>> but
>> not today).[/color]
>
>
> That was many, many years ago, like over a decade.
>[color=green]
>> Microsoft may price their OS as they see fit (with large scale royalty
>> OEMs,
>> generic OEM products in multiple packs, or singles and retail products
>> too)
>> to recover the massive R&D costs and to incentivize OEMs to ship their
>> OS.
>> There is no point bitching that the white box manufacturer who may
>> wish to
>> ship a few Windows here and there as well as sell other OS or none OS
>> machines
>> should be given the same pricing as a massive royalty OEM who commits to
>> ship tens of thousands of systems. This is no different to the
>> purchase of
>> a single retail copy of Office for $x00's dollars vs a large company
>> getting
>> an Enterprise Agreement for 20,000 seats and paying the equivalent of
>> $x0's
>> dollars. This is just market forces at work (Microsoft can depend on the
>> revenue stream from a royalty OEM or Enterprise Agreements but retail and
>> one offs are not great business sense.)[/color]
>
>
> Nice try but it's still a rip off and the scam is predicated on the
> purchaser's ignorance.[/color]

Bull****! You're the running a "scam" based on the purchaser's ignorance.

Hence this and other newsgroups are full of[color=blue]
> complaints.[/color]

About what? Being ripped off by scammers like you?
Figures!

Munchichic wrote:[color=blue]
> For the record, I agree with Alias. And here is my opinion. I feel it is the
> CUSTOMER'S RIGHT to decide what they DO or DO NOT want on their own computer.
> Therefore, it should be UP TO THE CUSTOMER to decide what to install. I'd
> rather have a blank computer upon purchase and load all of the software
> myself rather than having it pre-installed with a bunch of Dell (or any other
> company) crap on it. Just because I bought a Dell computer system does NOT
> automatically mean I WANT the rest of what Dell may have to offer. It's like
> saying I'll buy a new freight truck and expecting to leave with the ENTIRE
> FLEET just because they ASSUMED that because I liked ONE I wanted ALL.
>
> I therefore do not agree that a restore option should ONLY be available to
> restore the computer back to it's "out of the box" condition; especially when
> I'd be installing only ONE of the options that it originally came with vs.
> the actual number. Like I mentioned previously I am NOT asking for anything
> MORE than what is paid. It should be MY choice to decide what IS installed;
> not what I NEED TO UNINSTALL to have the computer set up to my
> specifications. "Techie" or not, this should be an option available to ALL
> CUSTOMERS. Normally I would have built this desktop myself but because of
> time constraints due to an unexpected crash this was not possible. This does
> not give any manufacturer the right to overwhelm me (or my computer) with a
> bunch of crap that they have no knowledge that I actually want. I don't care
> if it's a marketing ploy or not. Let the CUSTOMER choose what they want on
> their computer rather than have the manufacturer automatically install
> whatever the heck they want and force the customer to then select and
> uninstall all of the "additions". I don't think there is anything wrong with
> this since the customer is paying for the computer. It's our hard earned
> money and we should have every right to spend it as we see fit. It should be
> OUR choice to install whatever options we want on a computer. Forcing us to
> buy something pre-installed with anything we did not specifically request
> inconveniences us and forces us to waste time when having to remove these
> options from the computer. If they want to push the marketing strategy they
> can just simply include a disc with all of this crap on it vs. taking the
> liberty to pre-install it. They'd still be getting THEIR WAY by forcing their
> crap upon us, but it would put the choice back in the customer's hands where
> it rightfully belongs.[/color]

I guess next time you'll build yourself a white box :-)

Alias

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:27:06 -0700, Munchichic
<Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>For the record, I agree with Alias. And here is my opinion. I feel it is the
>CUSTOMER'S RIGHT to decide what they DO or DO NOT want on their own computer.
>Therefore, it should be UP TO THE CUSTOMER to decide what to install.[/color]

Then one should find a custom builder and place the order.

Simple.

Now stop yer ****ed whining and move on.
[color=blue]
> I'd
>rather have a blank computer upon purchase and load all of the software
>myself rather than having it pre-installed with a bunch of Dell (or any other
>company) crap on it. Just because I bought a Dell computer system does NOT
>automatically mean I WANT the rest of what Dell may have to offer. It's like
>saying I'll buy a new freight truck and expecting to leave with the ENTIRE
>FLEET just because they ASSUMED that because I liked ONE I wanted ALL.
>
>I therefore do not agree that a restore option should ONLY be available to
>restore the computer back to it's "out of the box" condition; especially when
>I'd be installing only ONE of the options that it originally came with vs.
>the actual number. Like I mentioned previously I am NOT asking for anything
>MORE than what is paid. It should be MY choice to decide what IS installed;
>not what I NEED TO UNINSTALL to have the computer set up to my
>specifications. "Techie" or not, this should be an option available to ALL
>CUSTOMERS. Normally I would have built this desktop myself but because of
>time constraints due to an unexpected crash this was not possible. This does
>not give any manufacturer the right to overwhelm me (or my computer) with a
>bunch of crap that they have no knowledge that I actually want. I don't care
>if it's a marketing ploy or not. Let the CUSTOMER choose what they want on
>their computer rather than have the manufacturer automatically install
>whatever the heck they want and force the customer to then select and
>uninstall all of the "additions". I don't think there is anything wrong with
>this since the customer is paying for the computer. It's our hard earned
>money and we should have every right to spend it as we see fit. It should be
>OUR choice to install whatever options we want on a computer. Forcing us to
>buy something pre-installed with anything we did not specifically request
>inconveniences us and forces us to waste time when having to remove these
>options from the computer. If they want to push the marketing strategy they
>can just simply include a disc with all of this crap on it vs. taking the
>liberty to pre-install it. They'd still be getting THEIR WAY by forcing their
>crap upon us, but it would put the choice back in the customer's hands where
>it rightfully belongs.[/color]

"Munchichic" <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:84A34376-A079-48FB-87FB-B9E18692A456@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> For the record, I agree with Alias. And here is my opinion. I feel it is
> the
> CUSTOMER'S RIGHT to decide what they DO or DO NOT want on their own
> computer.
> Therefore, it should be UP TO THE CUSTOMER to decide what to install. I'd
> rather have a blank computer upon purchase and load all of the software
> myself rather than having it pre-installed with a bunch of Dell (or any
> other
> company) crap on it. Just because I bought a Dell computer system does NOT
> automatically mean I WANT the rest of what Dell may have to offer. It's
> like
> saying I'll buy a new freight truck and expecting to leave with the ENTIRE
> FLEET just because they ASSUMED that because I liked ONE I wanted ALL.
>
> I therefore do not agree that a restore option should ONLY be available to
> restore the computer back to it's "out of the box" condition; especially
> when
> I'd be installing only ONE of the options that it originally came with vs.
> the actual number. Like I mentioned previously I am NOT asking for
> anything
> MORE than what is paid. It should be MY choice to decide what IS
> installed;
> not what I NEED TO UNINSTALL to have the computer set up to my
> specifications. "Techie" or not, this should be an option available to ALL
> CUSTOMERS. Normally I would have built this desktop myself but because of
> time constraints due to an unexpected crash this was not possible. This
> does
> not give any manufacturer the right to overwhelm me (or my computer) with
> a
> bunch of crap that they have no knowledge that I actually want. I don't
> care
> if it's a marketing ploy or not. Let the CUSTOMER choose what they want on
> their computer rather than have the manufacturer automatically install
> whatever the heck they want and force the customer to then select and
> uninstall all of the "additions". I don't think there is anything wrong
> with
> this since the customer is paying for the computer. It's our hard earned
> money and we should have every right to spend it as we see fit. It should
> be
> OUR choice to install whatever options we want on a computer. Forcing us
> to
> buy something pre-installed with anything we did not specifically request
> inconveniences us and forces us to waste time when having to remove these
> options from the computer. If they want to push the marketing strategy
> they
> can just simply include a disc with all of this crap on it vs. taking the
> liberty to pre-install it. They'd still be getting THEIR WAY by forcing
> their
> crap upon us, but it would put the choice back in the customer's hands
> where
> it rightfully belongs.[/color]

Psst, hey dude, over here. You do have a right to buy what you want. Did
someone put a gun to your head and say buy Dell? You can buy a computer with
anything you wish. If you make the choice to buy a Dell, with a lot of stuff
on it, you made the choice, no one forced you. That's the problem with
freedom, too many people are too stupid to get it. They need someone to hold
their hand all the time because they are getting abused by some bad company.
--
“Liberalism is a mental disorder."

Michael Savage

Hi,

I don't know what happened to you but please refer to this *old* blog and
Dell always shipped with OS restore discs.

[url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx#3187[/url]

---------------------------------------
Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I mis-read
the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this been in
the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer
and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an operating
system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In
Asia, things are unchanged¡Xwe've always shipped OS discs with systems
there.
-------------------------------------

Hope this helps.


"Munchichic" <Munchichic@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7603593E-14EB-4C8F-BCEE-DB8A4456BB24@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Hi Everyone. I realize this may be a "touchy" subject but I need to ask.
> After a massive computer failure I just bought a new Dell XPS 420 desktop
> PC.
> My first Dell purchase. It came preloaded with Microsoft Vista Home
> Premium.
> I asked Dell for an original Microsoft installation CD as a backup. They
> refused. I have several friends and relatives who purchased Dell computers
> and many of them requested the same disc from Dell and received it without
> incident (some within the last 2 months). I think I should be entitled to
> a
> copy of the installation CD and not one that is from Dell preloaded with a
> bunch of Dell crap on it. Why can't I receive an original Windows CD like
> everyone else has requested? Am I asking the wrong person? What am I doing
> wrong? Any help is appreciated. I just spent $1000 on this new computer
> and
> think that should entitle me to the Windows OS disc (and I expect it will
> have the same product key that was used to install on my new Dell). Thank
> you.[/color]