"Nonny" <nonnymoose******.com> wrote in message
news:spqe84tc7e62vdp0onkra6grs8vnm5ab8l@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 12:25:24 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP"
> <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote:
>
>>"Nonny" <nonnymoose******.com> wrote in message
>>news:bqfe84dqa88jhavu6h9j6h47rq756nfao2@4ax.com. ..
>>> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 09:08:12 -0400, "Mike Hall - MVP"
>>> <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>Why does it fall far short? That is one of the definitive guides to
>>>>>>installing XP. Perhaps you would like to point out what is wrong with
>>>>>>it..
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) the OP wants to move from Vista to XP
>>>>> 2) the OP's post seems to indicate a lack of experience
>>>>>
>>>>> His post doesn't address the issus of downgrading a Vista machine to
>>>>> XP, and thus overlooks what appears to be the OP's probable lack of
>>>>> awareness of the need to assure that device drivers are available for
>>>>> the machine before undertaking installing XP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So, why didn't you fill in the gaps rather than just criticize?
>>>
>>> Ahh... so you admit he missed the mark.
>>>
>>> Read my earlier freaking post that preceded that one. In case you
>>> missed it...
>>>
>>> ====
>>>
>>> "You sound inexperienced. Are you?
>>>
>>> You will need to have XP drivers for your computer before you
>>> undertake your project."
>>>
>>> ====
>>>
>>> That opened the door for the OP to admit inexperience and to post back
>>> with questions.
>>>
>>> Satisfied?????
>>>
>>> This post brought to you by the letters F and U.
>>
>>
>>No, I do not think that the mark was missed. It answered the question
>>which
>>was asked..
>
> In Carey's usual copy-and-paste minimalist manner.
>
> I realize that he has no personality, and that he has no life away
> from his keyboard... that is of no interest to me.
>
> If the OP had taken only his post for advice, a disaster may have
> occurred.


It obviously is of interest to you because you mentioned it, not that you
are too aware of what Carey does away from the keyboard.

I would suggest that, if the OP is as non-technical as you infer, reading
through the XP installation procedure would result in a call to a local
computer repairer..

--
Mike Hall - MVP
How to construct a good post..
http://dts-l.com/goodpost.htm
How to use the Microsoft Product Support Newsgroups..
http://support.microsoft.com/default...help&style=toc
Mike's Window - My Blog..
http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx

On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 20:33:00 -0700, Poormissey
<Poormissey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

> Does any one know how to reformat a pre installed verion of vista home
> premium so as I can install XP?


No formatting first is required. Just install XP cleanly. The format
will take place as part of the clean installation.

Boot from the Windows XP CD (change the BIOS boot order if necessary
to accomplish this) and follow the prompts for a clean installation
(delete the existing partition by pressing "D" when prompted, then
create a new one).

You can find detailed instructions here:
http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

or here
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org/how...windows_xp.htm

or here http://windowsxp.mvps.org/XPClean.htm

or here http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Poormissey wrote:
> Does any one know how to reformat a pre installed verion of vista home
> premium so as I can install XP?
>


It's your computer, so the choice is, ultimately, yours. (Although it
would have been a lot simpler to have just purchased a computer with
WinXP installed, to start with.)

However, there could be a couple possible adverse repercussions of
which you should be aware. First and foremost, if the specific computer
model in question was designed specifically for Vista, there may well be
no WinXP-specific device drivers available to make the computer's
diverse components work properly. Consult the computer's manufacturer
about the availability of device drivers. Secondly, removing an
OEM-installed operating system and replacing it with another will almost
invariably void any and all support agreements and, sometimes, even the
warranty. You would, at the very least, have to re-install Vista before
getting any support from the manufacturer. Again, consult the
computer's manufacturer for specifics. Thirdly, there may be the
additional cost involved in purchasing a WinXP license for this new
computer.

After backing up any data you wish to transfer to the new OS
installation, simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be
offered the opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part
of the installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of
boot devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default...B;en-us;316941

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm

Then, assuming you were successful in obtaining WinXP-specific
device drivers so that the computer can be made to work with WinXP, the
backed up data can be restored and applications (those that are
WinXP-compatible, that is) re-installed.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Sinner wrote:
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
> news:OjJ6KUM7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> "Poormissey" <Poormissey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:DB337270-C19B-44E8-A56E-4D9F45D95E45@microsoft.com...
>>> Does any one know how to reformat a pre installed verion of vista home
>>> premium so as I can install XP?
>>>
>>
>> It would save you $$$ and time were you to outline your problems with
>> Vista. Somebody here may well be able to get Vista to work for you.
>>
>
>
> Isn't it conceivable to some of you people that the OP just plain may not
> like anything at all about Vista.


Then why would he have bought a computer with it pre-installed? Do you
buy things you don't want or like?


> He may have had it forced on him by a
> manufacturer that kowtowed to the power of MS.


Only if someone held a gun to the OP's head, then he was "forced."
Otherwise, he was just too lazy or cheap to shop around.


> I know that's exactly what
> happened to me.


Someone held a gun to your head? Really? Have you reported him/her to
the police?




--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:17:07 -0600, Bruce Chambers
<bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:

>Sinner wrote:
>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
>> news:OjJ6KUM7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> "Poormissey" <Poormissey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:DB337270-C19B-44E8-A56E-4D9F45D95E45@microsoft.com...
>>>> Does any one know how to reformat a pre installed verion of vista home
>>>> premium so as I can install XP?
>>>
>>> It would save you $$$ and time were you to outline your problems with
>>> Vista. Somebody here may well be able to get Vista to work for you.
>>
>>
>> Isn't it conceivable to some of you people that the OP just plain may not
>> like anything at all about Vista.
>
>
> Then why would he have bought a computer with it pre-installed? Do you
>buy things you don't want or like?

HE (poormissey)?

As for the "Then why...", that is one of the dumber things you've come
up with! These groups are literally replete with folks who bought
Vista machines and want to ge back to XP.

Last time I checked, there weren't any 30-day free trials on new
computers to see if you liked them.

Nonny wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:17:07 -0600, Bruce Chambers
> <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:
>
>> Sinner wrote:
>>> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@remove_mvps.com> wrote in message
>>> news:OjJ6KUM7IHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>>> "Poormissey" <Poormissey@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:DB337270-C19B-44E8-A56E-4D9F45D95E45@microsoft.com...
>>>>> Does any one know how to reformat a pre installed verion of vista home
>>>>> premium so as I can install XP?
>>>> It would save you $$$ and time were you to outline your problems with
>>>> Vista. Somebody here may well be able to get Vista to work for you.
>>>
>>> Isn't it conceivable to some of you people that the OP just plain may not
>>> like anything at all about Vista.
>>
>> Then why would he have bought a computer with it pre-installed? Do you
>> buy things you don't want or like?
>
> HE (poormissey)?
>
> As for the "Then why...", that is one of the dumber things you've come
> up with! These groups are literally replete with folks who bought
> Vista machines and want to ge back to XP.
>


Yes, there are lots of non-thinking people who bought Vista without
first doing a few moments product research. However, the existence of
those stupid shoppers doesn't excuse or necessarily explain the OP. I
asked "why" because I thought it rude to just automatically assume that
he was also stupid/lazy/cheap; there's a slim possibility that there
might have been a valid reason involved.


> Last time I checked, there weren't any 30-day free trials on new
> computers to see if you liked them.


That's why any adult consumer would determine what he/she likes
*before* making a purchase decision. Do you buy a car without test
driving it? Do you buy clothing without first checking to be sure it
fits? How is buying a computer any different?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:%23s4n%23rS7IHA.3724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Sinner wrote:
>> Isn't it conceivable to some of you people that the OP just plain may not
>> like anything at all about Vista.
>
>
> Then why would he have bought a computer with it pre-installed? Do you
> buy things you don't want or like?
>
>

Okay, smartguy, let's see you buy a tablet computer with a 14" monitor, 3GB
of memory, 250GB HD with Windows XP Tablet edition installed. Give me the
URL, when you find it.

>> He may have had it forced on him by a manufacturer that kowtowed to the
>> power of MS.
>
>
> Only if someone held a gun to the OP's head, then he was "forced."
> Otherwise, he was just too lazy or cheap to shop around.
>
>

So, you can rush right out and buy a new computer with Windows ME on it, or
maybe Winows 98SE? The fact of the matter is, that once MS says it will no
longer be selling an OS it is ****ed near impossible to find a new commputer
with the discontinued OS installed. Especially a year after release of the
new OS.


>
> Someone held a gun to your head? Really? Have you reported him/her to
> the police?
>
>

Baaa. Your sheepdog is calling.

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:OLCdr3S7IHA.1428@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
<Snipped>
>
> Yes, there are lots of non-thinking people who bought Vista without first
> doing a few moments product research. However, the existence of those
> stupid shoppers doesn't excuse or necessarily explain the OP. I asked
> "why" because I thought it rude to just automatically assume that he was
> also stupid/lazy/cheap; there's a slim possibility that there might have
> been a valid reason involved.
>
>
>> Last time I checked, there weren't any 30-day free trials on new
>> computers to see if you liked them.
>
>
> That's why any adult consumer would determine what he/she likes *before*
> making a purchase decision. Do you buy a car without test driving it? Do
> you buy clothing without first checking to be sure it fits? How is buying
> a computer any different?
>
>

With everything you listed above, there are choices, but, with computers you
get the OS that's supplied. In my case, I didn't even get a choice of which
Vista flavor I wanted. I did want the hardware, so I had to accept the
software.

It's morons like yourself, who are willing to accept whatever scraps are
thrown to them, that are facilitating the destructioin of the American
consumer concept that "the customer is always right."

"Sinner" <sinner@gatesofhell.org> wrote in message
news:bVRhk.5627$dP6.559@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> "Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
> news:OLCdr3S7IHA.1428@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> <Snipped>
>>
>> Yes, there are lots of non-thinking people who bought Vista without first
>> doing a few moments product research. However, the existence of those
>> stupid shoppers doesn't excuse or necessarily explain the OP. I asked
>> "why" because I thought it rude to just automatically assume that he was
>> also stupid/lazy/cheap; there's a slim possibility that there might have
>> been a valid reason involved.
>>
>>
>>> Last time I checked, there weren't any 30-day free trials on new
>>> computers to see if you liked them.
>>
>>
>> That's why any adult consumer would determine what he/she likes *before*
>> making a purchase decision. Do you buy a car without test driving it?
>> Do you buy clothing without first checking to be sure it fits? How is
>> buying a computer any different?
>>
>>
>
> With everything you listed above, there are choices, but, with computers
> you get the OS that's supplied. In my case, I didn't even get a choice of
> which Vista flavor I wanted. I did want the hardware, so I had to accept
> the software.
>
> It's morons like yourself, who are willing to accept whatever scraps are
> thrown to them, that are facilitating the destructioin of the American
> consumer concept that "the customer is always right."
>
>

You do/did have a choice.
I bought 2 retail WinXP's....they can be installed on any PC I wish.
I have a retail Vista...once again any PC I want.

You seem to believe the only way to buy software is as an OEM preinstall.

Sinner wrote:
> "Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
> news:OLCdr3S7IHA.1428@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> <Snipped>
>> Yes, there are lots of non-thinking people who bought Vista without first
>> doing a few moments product research. However, the existence of those
>> stupid shoppers doesn't excuse or necessarily explain the OP. I asked
>> "why" because I thought it rude to just automatically assume that he was
>> also stupid/lazy/cheap; there's a slim possibility that there might have
>> been a valid reason involved.
>>
>>
>>> Last time I checked, there weren't any 30-day free trials on new
>>> computers to see if you liked them.
>>
>> That's why any adult consumer would determine what he/she likes *before*
>> making a purchase decision. Do you buy a car without test driving it? Do
>> you buy clothing without first checking to be sure it fits? How is buying
>> a computer any different?
>>
>>
>
> With everything you listed above, there are choices, but, with computers you
> get the OS that's supplied.


That's utterly untrue. You're limited to the vendor's choice of
computer configuration _only_ if *you* choose to be. There's no law
that says you have to buy computers only from big name manufacturers
with pre-installed operating systems. That's just the mindlessly easy
way out.


> In my case, I didn't even get a choice of which
> Vista flavor I wanted. I did want the hardware, so I had to accept the
> software.
>

"Had to accept?" Why's that? Do you live on a planet with only one
computer seller? Simple rule: if a vendor can't or won't sell you the
exact product you want, take your money elsewhere.


> It's morons like yourself, who are willing to accept whatever scraps are
> thrown to them, that are facilitating the destructioin of the American
> consumer concept that "the customer is always right."
>

Excuse me? Aren't you the "moron" who meekly "accept[ed] whatever"
computer was thrown at him, and is now trying to lay the blame
everywhere except where it belongs? Unlike you, I take my business to
people who meet my needs.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Sinner wrote:
> "Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
> news:%23s4n%23rS7IHA.3724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Sinner wrote:
>>> Isn't it conceivable to some of you people that the OP just plain may not
>>> like anything at all about Vista.
>>
>> Then why would he have bought a computer with it pre-installed? Do you
>> buy things you don't want or like?
>>
>>
>
> Okay, smartguy, let's see you buy a tablet computer with a 14" monitor, 3GB
> of memory, 250GB HD with Windows XP Tablet edition installed. Give me the
> URL, when you find it.
>

Start here:

http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkw...romZR40QQ_mdoZ


>>> He may have had it forced on him by a manufacturer that kowtowed to the
>>> power of MS.
>>
>> Only if someone held a gun to the OP's head, then he was "forced."
>> Otherwise, he was just too lazy or cheap to shop around.
>>
>>
>
> So, you can rush right out and buy a new computer with Windows ME on it, or
> maybe Winows 98SE? The fact of the matter is, that once MS says it will no
> longer be selling an OS it is ****ed near impossible to find a new commputer
> with the discontinued OS installed. Especially a year after release of the
> new OS.
>
>

That's just as well, isn't it, as the old OS is unlikely to work very
well on a new computer, anyway. Why on earth would anyone in their
right mind even want to try? Does a 2008 Ford come with an 8 Track Tape
player?



>
> Baaa. Your sheepdog is calling.
>
>
>


Gee, that's funny. You're the one who mindlessly and obediently
accepted what one vendor offered, and yet you're calling me the sheep?
Have you ever thought of looking into a mirror?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

"Hobbes" <Hobbes@Calvins.lol> wrote in message news:g6avea$8bn$1@aioe.org...
>
> "Sinner" <sinner@gatesofhell.org> wrote in message
> news:bVRhk.5627$dP6.559@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> With everything you listed above, there are choices, but, with computers
>> you get the OS that's supplied. In my case, I didn't even get a choice
>> of which Vista flavor I wanted. I did want the hardware, so I had to
>> accept the software.
>>
>> It's morons like yourself, who are willing to accept whatever scraps are
>> thrown to them, that are facilitating the destructioin of the American
>> consumer concept that "the customer is always right."
>>
>>
>
> You do/did have a choice.
> I bought 2 retail WinXP's....they can be installed on any PC I wish.
> I have a retail Vista...once again any PC I want.
>
> You seem to believe the only way to buy software is as an OEM preinstall.

You're making bad assumptions. I bought OEM packages because they are more
than 50% less expensive than full retail, and less expensive than Update
versions, and I don't care that I won't be able to mount them on future
computers I buy. Secondly, I defy you to find a non-OEM version of Windows
XP Tablet edition, anywhere!

The fact of the matter is, the Vista worshippers can't accept that anyone
would want go back to what they've been comfortable with for years, just
because MS decided they needed to put out a new package. A package which
business has so far resisted, and judging by the numbers of complaints in
all the vista newsgroups, a lot of consumers don't care for.

For me, Vista does nothing that I can't do with XP.

You will, in a couple of years, find out that while your retail versions of
XP will install on new machines, you won't be able to find any drivers.
I'll ne in the same boat with my OEM version. but it will have cost me a lot
less. So, you go ahead and keep buying your full retail packages.

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:OTXR6Nf7IHA.3652@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Sinner wrote:
>
>
> That's utterly untrue. You're limited to the vendor's choice of computer
> configuration _only_ if *you* choose to be. There's no law that says you
> have to buy computers only from big name manufacturers with pre-installed
> operating systems. That's just the mindlessly easy way out.
>
>

Ok, smart guy, ckeck out the specs on the Gateway C-142XL and find me a
comparable match anywhere, for the same price or less. Bear in mind. it
needs a 14" monitor, 3GB of memory, a 250GB HD and be a tablet. Ya, and it
must have WinXP Tablet as an option for OS.


>> In my case, I didn't even get a choice of which Vista flavor I wanted. I
>> did want the hardware, so I had to accept the software.
>>
>
> "Had to accept?" Why's that? Do you live on a planet with only one
> computer seller? Simple rule: if a vendor can't or won't sell you the
> exact product you want, take your money elsewhere.

And if noone has the exact product you want?

>
>
>> It's morons like yourself, who are willing to accept whatever scraps are
>> thrown to them, that are facilitating the destructioin of the American
>> consumer concept that "the customer is always right."
>>
>
> Excuse me? Aren't you the "moron" who meekly "accept[ed] whatever"
> computer was thrown at him, and is now trying to lay the blame everywhere
> except where it belongs? Unlike you, I take my business to people who
> meet my needs.
>
>

You tell me. Accept my challenge, show the world I'm wrong. Come on, or go
follow the sheep with the bell!

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:ubo4dQf7IHA.2416@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Sinner wrote:
>> "Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
>> news:%23s4n%23rS7IHA.3724@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Sinner wrote:
>>>> Isn't it conceivable to some of you people that the OP just plain may
>>>> not like anything at all about Vista.
>>>
>>> Then why would he have bought a computer with it pre-installed? Do you
>>> buy things you don't want or like?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Okay, smartguy, let's see you buy a tablet computer with a 14" monitor,
>> 3GB of memory, 250GB HD with Windows XP Tablet edition installed. Give
>> me the URL, when you find it.
>>
>
> Start here:
>
> http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkw...romZR40QQ_mdoZ
>
>



Not even close on specs.

"Sinner" <sinner@gatesofhell.org> wrote in message
news:TVbik.6760$P8.642@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
> "Hobbes" <Hobbes@Calvins.lol> wrote in message
> news:g6avea$8bn$1@aioe.org...
>>
>> "Sinner" <sinner@gatesofhell.org> wrote in message
>> news:bVRhk.5627$dP6.559@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> With everything you listed above, there are choices, but, with computers
>>> you get the OS that's supplied. In my case, I didn't even get a choice
>>> of which Vista flavor I wanted. I did want the hardware, so I had to
>>> accept the software.
>>>
>>> It's morons like yourself, who are willing to accept whatever scraps are
>>> thrown to them, that are facilitating the destructioin of the American
>>> consumer concept that "the customer is always right."
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You do/did have a choice.
>> I bought 2 retail WinXP's....they can be installed on any PC I wish.
>> I have a retail Vista...once again any PC I want.
>>
>> You seem to believe the only way to buy software is as an OEM preinstall.
>
> You're making bad assumptions. I bought OEM packages because they are
> more than 50% less expensive than full retail, and less expensive than
> Update versions, and I don't care that I won't be able to mount them on
> future computers I buy. Secondly, I defy you to find a non-OEM version of
> Windows XP Tablet edition, anywhere!
>
> The fact of the matter is, the Vista worshippers can't accept that anyone
> would want go back to what they've been comfortable with for years, just
> because MS decided they needed to put out a new package. A package which
> business has so far resisted, and judging by the numbers of complaints in
> all the vista newsgroups, a lot of consumers don't care for.
>
> For me, Vista does nothing that I can't do with XP.
>
> You will, in a couple of years, find out that while your retail versions
> of XP will install on new machines, you won't be able to find any drivers.
> I'll ne in the same boat with my OEM version. but it will have cost me a
> lot less. So, you go ahead and keep buying your full retail packages.
>
>
>

Some people nickel and dime their way thru life.
Money is just money...quite easy to obtain.

Your original argument of " there are choices, but, with computers
you get the OS that's supplied. In my case, I didn't even get a choice
of which Vista flavor I wanted. " has now devolved into an anti MS rant.

People always have choices !

You can choose a PC more in line with your pricepoint ( etch-a-sketch )
You can develope your own programs customized to your needs (not likely)
Or you can whine (the people's choice).

I worship an all powerful BunnyRabbit...not Vista.