You are talking to Adam Not So Bright. Its amusing these guys keep
complaining about crashes but Ive had XP for about 6 years and no crashes,
Vista about a year and no crashes. Nice.

"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
news:pEF0k.2767$uE5.1290@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
> Very stupid comment. Ever stop to think what causes the crashes?
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:34r544tefr33t5vlj5lrdmk0u5avjihl47@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:38:01 -0500, "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Your argument is totally ridiculous. The primary reason for Microsoft's
>>>popularity is simply because it is so flexible.
>>>What do you want your computer to do? Microsoft's OS does it.
>>
>> I had no idea people wanted their systems to crash so often.
>>
>
>

Unknown wrote:

> Very stupid comment. Ever stop to think what causes the crashes?
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:34r544tefr33t5vlj5lrdmk0u5avjihl47@4ax.com...
>
>>On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:38:01 -0500, "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Your argument is totally ridiculous. The primary reason for Microsoft's
>>>popularity is simply because it is so flexible.
>>>What do you want your computer to do? Microsoft's OS does it.
>>
>>I had no idea people wanted their systems to crash so often.
>>
>
>
>

Of course he knows!He is the cause of his Vista Business install
crashing. User incompetence...he's a fukkin idiot!
But like most idiot's, he blames everyone else for his incompetence.
Frank

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:uk9644hi999a6np0kmg3ed133egbgse7ev@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 01 Jun 2008 21:44:33 GMT, "Canuck57"
> <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>>news:cvj54496f6aan8oguok3deqgev6oodq5k3@4ax.com. ..
>>
>>> Fast forward to 1981. IBM noticed Apple's growing success but also
>>> realized their major blunder using a closed architecture, just stupid
>>> and based on greed. Literally overnight IBM put together a team of 12
>>> engineers who with off the shelf parts gave birth to the PC using Open
>>> Architecture. Shortly before IBM for reasons only God knows approached
>>> Bill Gates, a total nobody at the time to write a OS for this PC. You
>>> know the rest of that story.
>>
>>I know some history on this. IBM designed the PC, 8088 @ 4.7 MHz.
>>Trouble
>>was IBM started building them and warehousing them before their internal
>>OS
>>development was finished with Digital Research. Boca Ratan comes to mind,
>>anyway IBM had big problems and was desperate for a working OS. Someone
>>found Microsoft as an alternative to the failing relationship with Digital
>>Research. For Microsoft, MS-DOS was originally known as QDOS (Quick and
>>Dirty OS) which borrowed from CP/M. Essentially, MS-DOS was stripped down
>>CP/M. Also added was Basic to the BIOS, borrowed from earlier works on
>>the
>>PET and Altair ports and then IBM had a PC with OS/programming.
>>Initially,
>>IBM actually helped people market and paid people to write programs for
>>this
>>PC. I believe Microsoft got $25 per MS-DOS sold via IBM.
>>
>>Competators at the time included: Apple, Tandy/Radio Shack and Commodore
>>Pet and a few others. There were plenty of micro based systems, 6800,
>>6502,
>>8080, Z80 and others before the 8088 IBM PC. IBMs ants in the pants to
>>get
>>to market as they could forsee the micro based personal market going big
>>time and they wanted in fast.
>>
>>While Bill is credited with the founding of Microsoft, this is folk lore.
>>A
>>real known picture of the Microsoft 11:
>>
>> http://kennethg.blogspot.com/2006/06...-founders.html
>>
>>11 or 12 people started Microsoft, most of which were moved asside before
>>or
>>when Ballmer came into Microsoft in 1980. There is a lot of hidden
>>stories
>>in this period to tell as American media likes the single shining knight
>>story. That is, Bill Gates is not the single founder of Microsoft, not
>>even
>>apartner, but one of many. But Ballmer was with Microsoft just before
>>they
>>hit it big time with the IBM contract.
>
> One thing I've always wondered about is why IBM the powerhouse it was
> and still is didn't write it's own OS for their PC totally in house.
>
> I've seen that famous picture many times. I think history never gave
> Paul Allen, extreme right bottom row much credit.

Big companies are political, writing good software is engineering,
discipline and to some degree artistic. The two don't usually mix too well
where the rules are not well defined. So I suspect IBM wanted Digital
Research to do it. But something went wrong with that relationship.
Licensing? Costs? Technology? Who knows.

But Bill Gates and Ballmer got their start by an element of luck of this
event. But to their credit, they did ruthlessly leverage it to the MS
behemoth we see today.

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:21:06 -0400, "Billy Smith"
<chungkingchungking******.com> wrote:

>You are talking to Adam Not So Bright. Its amusing these guys keep
>complaining about crashes but Ive had XP for about 6 years and no crashes,
>Vista about a year and no crashes. Nice.

Did I miss some "logic" in that silly comment? No, just another patsy
that doesn't have a clue. Let me explain the facts of life to the
armatures here one more time in simple terms maybe they can
understand.

How often one might expect to see Windows "crash" is proportional to
what you use your computer for. An analogy would be you wouldn't
expect your car to have a major mechanical breakdown if all you did
was drive it up and down your driveway once a week. However if you're
trying to tow a two ton boat and trailer up a steep hill for miles
every weekend then something breaking down is far more likely to
happen.

It is obvious from reading many of the posts here that a lot of people
merely "play" with their computer. That's like driving that car back
and forth on your driveway. Of course just surfing the web, reading
email, maybe writing some short document or crunching some numbers in
a spreadsheet isn't stressful to your computer or Windows so expecting
it to see crashes under those circumstances would be silly and yes if
that's all I did I wouldn't expect Windows to crash for years either.

On the other hand some of us actually WORK with our computers
stressing it to the limit like that car straining to pull that boat
and trailer up a steep hill for mile after mile. The chances of
Windows crashing when it is running under heavy load increases the
likelihood something will hang, stop working or the system just
getting sluggish.

On Jun 1, 7:04*pm, Adam Albright <A...@ABC.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 20:21:06 -0400, "Billy Smith"
>
> <chungkingchungk...******.com> wrote:
> >You are talking to Adam Not So Bright. Its amusing these guys keep
> >complaining about crashes but Ive had XP for about 6 years and no crashes,
> >Vista about a year and no crashes. Nice.
>
> Did I miss some "logic" in that silly comment? No, just another patsy
> that doesn't have a clue. Let me explain the facts of life to the
> armatures here one more time in simple terms maybe they can
> understand.
>
> How often one might expect to see Windows "crash" is proportional to
> what you use your computer for. An analogy would be you wouldn't
> expect your car to have a major mechanical breakdown if all you did
> was drive it up and down your driveway once a week. However if you're
> trying to tow a two ton boat and trailer up a steep hill for miles
> every weekend then something breaking down is far more likely to
> happen.
>
> It is obvious from reading many of the posts here that a lot of people
> merely "play" with their computer. That's like driving that car back
> and forth on your driveway. Of course just surfing the web, reading
> email, maybe writing some short document or crunching some numbers in
> a spreadsheet isn't stressful to your computer or Windows so expecting
> it to see crashes under those circumstances would be silly and yes if
> that's all I did I wouldn't expect Windows to crash for years either.
>
> On the other hand some of us actually WORK with our computers
> stressing it to the limit like that car straining to pull that boat
> and trailer up a steep hill for mile after mile. The chances of
> Windows crashing when it is running under heavy load increases the
> likelihood something will hang, stop working or the system just
> getting sluggish. *

? armatures ?
Arm ~ Arm-Chair {Too Relaxed and Set-Thier-Ways}
Matures ~ Getting Old {and Getting Lazy}

In article <3sA0k.80$ze2.10@pd7urf1no>,
"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:

< SNIP >

Here is a clue, how about dropping RRS from the distribution where this
is off topic?

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article
<c1460210-8bf3-4d4d-a452-f1af6d8f240b@p39g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
RHF <rhf-newsgroups@pacbell.net> wrote:

< SNIP >

Drop RRS from the newsgroup distribution please.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

In article <26p644l8jqnrsd3vskr9pbki2kq1uhlvo6@4ax.com>,
Adam Albright <AA@ABC.net> wrote:

< SNIP >

Off topic for RRS. Please drop it from the newsgroup header.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Telamon" <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-B5BE4A.21215601062008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net ...
> In article <3sA0k.80$ze2.10@pd7urf1no>,
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:
>
> < SNIP >
>
> Here is a clue, how about dropping RRS from the distribution where this
> is off topic?
>
> --
> Telamon
> Ventura, California

If you are policing, hunt up the one who added it to the off topic group,
which was not I. And I assume you mean rec.radio.shortwave? Could be some
ISP has a poorly configured news server too. I certainly didn't add that
in.

Have you tried turning either machine on?



Billy Smith wrote:
> You are talking to Adam Not So Bright. Its amusing these guys keep
> complaining about crashes but Ive had XP for about 6 years and no
> crashes, Vista about a year and no crashes. Nice.
>
> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
> news:pEF0k.2767$uE5.1290@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
>> Very stupid comment. Ever stop to think what causes the crashes?
>> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>> news:34r544tefr33t5vlj5lrdmk0u5avjihl47@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 11:38:01 -0500, "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your argument is totally ridiculous. The primary reason for Microsoft's
>>>> popularity is simply because it is so flexible.
>>>> What do you want your computer to do? Microsoft's OS does it.
>>>
>>> I had no idea people wanted their systems to crash so often.
>>>
>>
>>
>

Canuck57 wrote:
> "Telamon" <telamon_spamshield@pacbell.net.is.invalid> wrote in message
> news:telamon_spamshield-B5BE4A.21215601062008@newsclstr03.news.prodigy.net ...
>> In article <3sA0k.80$ze2.10@pd7urf1no>,
>> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:
>>
>> < SNIP >
>>
>> Here is a clue, how about dropping RRS from the distribution where this
>> is off topic?
>>
>> --
>> Telamon
>> Ventura, California
>
> If you are policing, hunt up the one who added it to the off topic group,
> which was not I. And I assume you mean rec.radio.shortwave? Could be some
> ISP has a poorly configured news server too. I certainly didn't add that
> in.
>
>

Nor me :)

Anyway, it is a change to have some rational discussion on the subject.
One consideration I have with regard to operating systems is that
Microsoft do employ a large number of people in the US and do have
resources to experiment, that is to take on innovative projects that are
not financially disastrous to the company if they fail to find a large
market. Many smaller companies who might develop similar projects would
fail because they would face too much time to market. So yes Microsoft
definitely has a place, no problem with that, but it is going to get
tougher to keep it because until some really new technology appears
there is a limit to what can be added to any operating system, Vista for
example does not add that much to the functionality of XP, but if people
have trouble with it then it actually takes something away from them.

Personally I have found that users quickly get used to the newer Linux
distributions and for work these are just fine. For games of course not
so good, but then you don't want people playing counter strike at work eh?

A side effect of my messing with it at work is that now, maybe 20 people
know there is an alternative OS they can put on the old machine they
can't use because XP/ME is broken and they lost or damaged the CD. As
they haul that out of the closet for the kids to use or as a spare
machine their friends will see it and use it.

This is why I say that MS need to be careful, because at some future
date the rise in the use of alternatives could become exponential,
Linux' problem has been that nobody got familiar with it in their day to
day life. As they do that things could change. Computer stores will have
to offer it, techs will have to learn it, etc.

My IT pro will not adopt Vista if he can avoid it because the company
has no real use for the "Extra" features it offers over XP. Most work
related stuff requires only internet access and text entry with some
spreadsheet work thrown in. Basically we have to have W2003 on one
server per facility, but could equally well use a Linux with open office
for everything, including access to the server (The main data entry
program used is Windows only).

Why would we spend say $1500 each for all new machines in order to do
just what we do now? Over time maybe, IF we could get the networking
between Vista and "Something else" reliable, but that is another issue.

Personally, were I Mr Gates or Mr Ballmer, I think I'd rather see pirate
copies of XP used than have Linux appearing on random desktops, but I'm
not :)

So I don't really advocate anything, only state what appears to me to be
the obvious. That there is plenty of hardware out there that can be
refurbished, and with the financial situation many people are in now I
can see that happening.

I mean what is XP going to cost, assuming you can get it legitimately in
the future, couple of hundred? Then something like MS Office? Couple of
hundred?

Ubuntu and Open Office - nothing - zilch, maybe the price of a blank CD
of you want to be picky.

Now I happen to like XP, but hey, I am not the one "Taking it away". I
like Vista, but I also have older machines it simply cannot run on,
where XP runs just fine for most things. Debian and Ubuntu run well on
just about anything - although to be honest I did find one old one that
ran XP but not Linux and cannot explain that because it was really too
old anyway and I trashed it.

So you know, it's got to be a valid decision for Microsoft to make -
what happens to XP?

I think my inclination would be to keep selling it, gradually reducing
the price. If not, people will steal it or worse still (IMHO) look
elsewhere. I don;t think you can declare million of machines obsolete in
the space of a year or two.

I don't know any IT pro who really wants to rush out and buy a new OS
the day it is released, especially when the "Core" is radically
different from the previous version. As someone (you?) suggested the
progress on the Linux core should hold far fewer surprises being more
incremental. However to be fair I have noted more "Glitches" in the
current release of Ubuntu than in the version I have at work which is
now maybe 2 years old. Debian is harder to get set up, but rock steady
by comparison. This suggests that as more "Glitz" is added to any OS
more things get unreliable.

So yes, many people like Windows and will continue to do so, those who
don't really care as long as it works reliably may reconsider, and guess
what, those are often the people with hundreds of machines to maintain.

Unknown wrote:
> Aren't YOU keeping up with technology. Did you buy a plasma or LCD TV set.
> Are you going digital?
> Crippled shareware indeed. I don't use virus programs either. I don't shell
> out hundreds of bucks every 3 or 4 years. Your words not mine. If you do
> that's your business. Media playthings?? Are you a child?

I have always been ahead of technology, not "keeping up". And yes, when
it comes to making music, I am a child.

Microsoft has nothing going for it other than the DirectX graphics
library and strong-arm deals with mass-marketers of inferior hardware.

Unknown wrote:
> Very stupid comment. Ever stop to think what causes the crashes?

I shouldn't have to.

Billy Smith wrote:

> Consider that a good backup drive from Western Digital costs maybe
> 100-200 USD and that would protect you from system crashes should they
> occur.

How does a mass storage device prevent crashes?


> What is quite interesting to me is that often I have Windows Media
> player working at the same time as doing QuickBooks, website
> development, and working on business projects at the same time. Not to
> mention a multitiude of other pop up things like Weatherbug, etc.

Talk about yer power users...


> Also, it might be prudent to use some good quality software from a
> recognized vendor. The usual cheap way of doing things is not the best
> way no matter how much you may save.

I've found that the best software costs nothing.


> It isn't always the system that is at fault. In fact, with the new
> patches coming up over time the operating systems generally improve.
> This isn't precision parts manufacturing for the military jet fighter
> brigade.

In broadcasting we don't tolerate crashes and freezing, because it tends
to annoy the audience. On the front lines, computers are very
mission-critical.

That's the indication you have tunnel vision and do not understand the real
problem. It (your tunnel vision) can be caused by
your very negative attitude.
"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:i4e6445h6282v9t7qcm22bdp4maoc57kr5@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:45:47 -0500, "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom>
> wrote:
>
>>Very stupid comment. Ever stop to think what causes the crashes?
>
> Sure, poor design, bugs and sloppy, bloated untested code.
>