Steve de Mena wrote:
> hsyq8xg******.com wrote:
>> www.gcn.com/print/27_8/46117-1.html
>>
>> Interesting quotes --
>> “We have achieved the promises of Moore’s Law,”
>> “Much more pervasive now is the problem with software.”
>> “Software is getting bigger and more complex,"
>> "The Windows Vista operating system is so much bigger than its
>> predecessors, that it is not any faster even though processing speeds
>> have increased.”
> I don't see anywhere in this article where they say what OSs they are
> using.

There are a number of different operating systems in use at the US-armed
forces including Linux and microsoft. The recent years DARPA has
financed quite many Linux based projects, of course those projects
usually aren't for desktop use, and of course it's cheaper to blow up a
computer with Linux than one with microsoft, as you may loose the
license when you no longer have the original hardware left, otherwise
those missiles would need to eject the on board "computer" and the NAVY
SEALS has to do "rescue" missions to retrieve those machines ;)


--

//Aho

On Sat, 17 May 2008 09:12:13 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:

> In article <9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>>>> trivial?
>>>>
>>>> Not at all.
>>>>
>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>>
>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>>
>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>
>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>
>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so I
>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>>
>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>
>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>
> I guess it is all a matter of when you grew up. My youth was filled with
> those little metric shows on PBS that were basically 30 min PSAs. I still
> remember that a meter is just a little longer than a yard, a dime is about
> 1 mm in thickness, and that a cubic decimeter = 1 liter = 1 kilogram which
> is around 2.2 pounds. I also remember the old pint is a pound (ie 16
> ounces) of the common system as well.
>
>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>
>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>
> Strange thing is that the University of Utah taught ALL its physics courses
> in metric in the mid 1980's. I guess I thought that is the way all
> universities of that time taught their courses.

They taught both systems when I was in engineering school in the late 70's
but the MKS system was used for the courses and the English system was just
taught to illustrate the differences.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

Bruce Grubb wrote:
> In article <9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>>>> trivial?
>>>> Not at all.
>>>>
>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>
>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>
>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so I
>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>
>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>
> I guess it is all a matter of when you grew up. My youth was filled with
> those little metric shows on PBS that were basically 30 min PSAs. I still
> remember that a meter is just a little longer than a yard, a dime is about
> 1 mm in thickness, and that a cubic decimeter = 1 liter = 1 kilogram which
> is around 2.2 pounds. I also remember the old pint is a pound (ie 16
> ounces) of the common system as well.
>
>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>
>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>
> Strange thing is that the University of Utah taught ALL its physics courses
> in metric in the mid 1980's. I guess I thought that is the way all
> universities of that time taught their courses.


Well US standards ARE based on the metric system

http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/

And this is from Wikipedia

The use of two different systems was the root cause in the loss of the
Mars Climate Orbiter in 1998. NASA specified metric units in the
contract. NASA and other organizations worked in metric units but one
subcontractor, Lockheed Martin, provided thruster performance data to
the team in pound force seconds instead of newton seconds. The
spacecraft was intended to orbit Mars at about 150 kilometers (93 mi)
altitude, but the incorrect data meant that it probably descended
instead to about 57 kilometers (35 mi), burning up in the Martian
atmosphere.

"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
news:9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>
>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>
>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>>> trivial?
>>>
>>> Not at all.
>>>
>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>
>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>
>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>
> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
> One team was using English the other metric.
>
> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
> Englsih vs MKS.
>
>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so
>> I
>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>
> The problem is thinking and converting.
>
> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>
> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.

Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
British sell gas by the litre.

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:

> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
> news:9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>>>> trivial?
>>>>
>>>> Not at all.
>>>>
>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>>
>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>>
>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>
>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>
>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so
>>> I
>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>>
>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>
>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>
>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>
> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
> British sell gas by the litre.

Is there some subtle joke in this ludicrous statement?

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:XxDXj.275248$pM4.113716@pd7urf1no...


> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
> British sell gas by the litre.
>

Well we did invent the imperial *and* metric systems.

Canuck57 wrote:
> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
> news:9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>
>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>>>> trivial?
>>>> Not at all.
>>>>
>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>
>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>
>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>
>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so
>>> I
>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>
>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>
>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>
> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
> British sell gas by the litre.
>
>

I was fortunate because before high school I learned the British system
(240 pennies in the GBP etc, yards feet and inches) but when I got to
high school they switched to Metric, so using both comes naturally to me.

In the 80s I worked for a US corporation and though we made all kinds of
fasteners (Nuts and bolts) and sold huge quantities of Metric ones all
over Europe the drawing office had to submit things to the US corporate
who insisted on all measurements being in "English" units. There is some
logic to this, high precision gauges are often very costly, so to draw
and measure in the one standard avoids a lot of expense.

So I guess I have stayed in practice with both.

"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:g0mojf$i1e$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> The Natural Philosopher <a@b.c> writes:
>
>> Hadron wrote:
>>> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> "Ivan Marsh" <ivanmarsh******.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:pan.2008.05.16.18.37.28.500559******.com...
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:56:01 -0700, -hh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> ... no mention of vista gives you several choices including: linux,
>>>>>>> Mac, XP, 98, 95, CE, pSOS, DOS, and loads of others. Choose the
>>>>>>> best
>>>>>>> one for the application and everything will be fine.
>>>>>> IIRC, the USN had been using NT on some of their ships a couple of
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's some links:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.gcn.com/print/17_17/33727-1.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/1998/07/13987>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://windowsitpro.com/article/arti...nt-sinks-navy-
>>>>>> ship.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These are all pretty dated; not sure if there's more current info
>>>>>> online
>>>>>> or not.
>>>>> Sorry... but the Yorktown meltdown had to do with a divide by zero
>>>>> error
>>>>> in the engine power interface when the operator entered zero into a
>>>>> data
>>>>> input field which was the fault of the person who programmed the
>>>>> control
>>>>> software and had nothing to do with the operating system.
>>>>>
>>>>> *This should in no way be misconstrued as an endorsement of windows. I
>>>>> would not knowingly trust my life to a Microsoft OS.*
>>>> It still highlights the general poor quality of MS-Windows
>>>> programming methodologies spilling into serious software
>>>> development cycles and today's design techniques. While software
>>>> has become more complex, it is also true the teams developing it
>>>> are much larger, better funded and generally less disciplined. We
>>>> somehow think a business NET ad-hoc programmer makes a embedded
>>>> systems programmer, and that is a fallacy for greed.
>>>
>>> What a load of uninformed bull****.
>>
>> Sounds pretty accurate to me, having worked on just such teams in the
>> past.
>
> I was referring to the MS Windows programming methodologies comment. The
> "less disciplined" bit is crap too. Most projects are so ****
> disciplined these days they have certificates coming out of their cracks
> but very little SW. OSS is a different kettle of fish - almost zero
> discipline and "yet another copycat program" every other day.

A good process as squat to do with "certificates". In fact the best people
I know in software engineering have degrees/diploma but no certifications,
they are viewed as a wasted effort in advanced levels of software
engineering. Certs are for those that are new, need to show they have a
minimum competency level. Any meaningful certifications are the ones for
the processes and the verification that they are being followed buy the lab.

I was referring to the process of good software design. Requirements,
business cases, documentation, cost analysis, risk, evolution of processes
in a full SQA model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_Quality_Assurance

How many Microsoft shops have a working SQA modeled process? Many don't
even have a QA position, and if they do they are under funded and under
staffed often without written test plans. How many even have centrally
managed and monitored document/source code control? Source Safe, LOL.
Coding is often ad-hoc and not peer reviewed. Lets not get into the lack of
design documentation, absence of solid planning, requirements and risk
analysis. How many Microsoft projects are on time? Vista anyone?

If you are writing command and control code for something like a nuclear
warship, it isn't like your average I/T shop, or I hope not. Lets whip out
some .NET and some XML because it is whey cool does not float, but might get
you fired. Coding in a well designed and managed project is really just a
short mechanical exercise near the middle-end of the project cycle. On
time, on budget and delivers exactly what is required.

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:g0m270$h4o$1@news.datemas.de...
>
>
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
> news:KooXj.143874$Cj7.67171@pd7urf2no...
>
>
>> I remember reading that at the time it happened. I would have thought
>> the navy would have used something much more stable for critical
>> operations. Also more secure, like OpenBSD or something. Also cluster
>> them for fail over.
>
> Clustering doesn't help with application software faults.
> Its a common mistake people make, like thinking RAID is a substitute for
> backups.
>
>
>> Using NT was stupid, could have been real bad if they failed in an active
>> combat war zone at sea.
>
> Any application software failing during combat could be a problem.
> That is why they like mature software on military systems.

But this is my point. But maybe not clear.

Why use a complex, hard to review and less stable OS than say pSOS or
vxWorks or even a skinny down version of RTOS like Linux? Why use a complex
high maintenance insecure OS like NT? Seems kind of stupid as simplicity
also has value in reliably, real time response and maintenance. If for
nothing else, less to go wrong.

The need and use of hard drives also bothers me. Get a minor hit vibrating
through the hull and the heads crash...

Agree with clustering, that is primarily for hardware faults. But it would
be nice to know a war ship with nukes has more than one frail way of command
and control.

Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can launch
these **** things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47 coming at
you.

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:rAEXj.145638$rd2.122813@pd7urf3no...


>> Any application software failing during combat could be a problem.
>> That is why they like mature software on military systems.
>
> But this is my point. But maybe not clear.
>
> Why use a complex, hard to review and less stable OS than say pSOS or
> vxWorks or even a skinny down version of RTOS like Linux? Why use a
> complex high maintenance insecure OS like NT?

You have a point, I suspect that they use it because it isn't any of those
things.

> Seems kind of stupid as simplicity also has value in reliably, real time
> response and maintenance.

It does, probably the reason they don't like big monolithic kernels much.

> If for nothing else, less to go wrong.

True, but if you are doing a tactical display you would have to add so much
code to pSOS/vxWorks that you would introduce more bugs than there are in an
OS that has been in use (and tested) by millions for several years.

>
> The need and use of hard drives also bothers me. Get a minor hit
> vibrating through the hull and the heads crash...

Shock protection, they are used in far worse places than a war ship.
They used to have HD in cruise missiles incase you didn't know (probably
still do in some).

>
> Agree with clustering, that is primarily for hardware faults. But it
> would be nice to know a war ship with nukes has more than one frail way of
> command and control.

It has, but that would be classified.

>
> Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can launch
> these **** things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47 coming at
> you.
>
>
>

"Hadron" <hadronquark@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:g0n0pr$rpf$2@registered.motzarella.org...
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
>> news:9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
>>>> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> trivial?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing fscked up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>>>>
>>>> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
>>>> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
>>>> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>>>
>>> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
>>> One team was using English the other metric.
>>>
>>> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
>>> Englsih vs MKS.
>>>
>>>> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric
>>>> so
>>>> I
>>>> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
>>>> automotive industry use English standard units?!
>>>
>>> The problem is thinking and converting.
>>>
>>> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
>>> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
>>> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>>>
>>> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.
>>
>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
>> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
>> British sell gas by the litre.
>
> Is there some subtle joke in this ludicrous statement?

Oops, no. Should read...

.....but is not the US the last market on earth using imperial measurement?

Canuck57 wrote:
>
> Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can launch
> these **** things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47 coming at
> you.
>
>
>

You really are an idiot. You have no business discussing anything technical.

You'll be wise to limit your technical expertise to how to turn on the
fryer to fry tacos at Taco Bell.

"????What" <What?@Wha???t.com> wrote in message
news:%2360n7lFuIHA.3804@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Canuck57 wrote:
>>
>> Hey Scotty, come up and replace this NT DLL or hard drive so we can
>> launch these **** things...whew...scary thought with a SU 30 or SU 47
>> coming at you.
>>
>
> You really are an idiot. You have no business discussing anything
> technical.
>
> You'll be wise to limit your technical expertise to how to turn on the
> fryer to fry tacos at Taco Bell.

Now why would I want to do that? So I could get a job as a Microsoft
administrator?

Hadron wrote:
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> writes:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
>
>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure of
>> this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric? Even the
>> British sell gas by the litre.
>
> Is there some subtle joke in this ludicrous statement?

Not really. its true.

Well we sell PETROL by the litre, Gas is sold by the cu ft I believe.

dennis@home wrote:
>
>
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
> news:XxDXj.275248$pM4.113716@pd7urf1no...
>
>
>> Anyone in engineering and science had better know MKS. Not 100% sure
>> of this, but is not the US the last market on earth using metric?
>> Even the British sell gas by the litre.
>>
>
> Well we did invent the imperial *and* metric systems.

French invented the metric system AFAICR.

Imperial was developed in Europe..hard to say that England was where it
really started.

The 'Mile' is a thousand paces..standardised Roman paces..

The 'yard' is how for you can pull a bowstring, or a bolt of cloth with
one hand to the body and the other extended..
etc..