On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:42:31 -0700, Frank <fb@sto.clm> wrote:

>Steve de Mena wrote:
>> Canuck57 wrote:
>>
>>> I remember reading that at the time it happened. I would have thought
>>> the navy would have used something much more stable for critical
>>> operations. Also more secure, like OpenBSD or something. Also cluster
>>> them for fail over. Using NT was stupid, could have been real bad if
>>> they failed in an active combat war zone at sea.
>>
>>
>> NT Fail? What exactly do you know about Windows NT and its
>> stability/reliability?
>>
>> Steve
>
>Pay no attention to him. He's just an MS hating lying linux troll.
>Frank

Frank of course is a sheep molesting, pathological liar and all around
putz, doofus and world class moron. We all got your number Frank. No
matter what you say, we know you're a psycho, a pervert and mental
midget with absolutely no redeeming qualities at all.

Steve de Mena wrote:
> John wrote:
>>
>> "Steve de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
>> news:qfudncEI1P8olLDVnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>> hsyq8xg******.com wrote:
>>>> www.gcn.com/print/27_8/46117-1.html
>>>>
>>>> Interesting quotes --
>>>>
>>>> “We have achieved the promises of Moore’s Law,”
>>>>
>>>> “Much more pervasive now is the problem with software.”
>>>>
>>>> “Software is getting bigger and more complex,"
>>>>
>>>> "The Windows Vista operating system is so much bigger than its
>>>> predecessors, that it is not any faster even though processing speeds
>>>> have increased.”
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> = = = ==================================
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see anywhere in this article where they say what OSs they are
>>> using.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> Advocating junk again AS USUAL I see.
>
> I was making a statement of FACT, as usual.
>
> Stev


No you stated NO FACT. The article clearly mentioned Vista.

On Fri, 16 May 2008 18:49:20 -0500, Adam Albright wrote:

> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:42:31 -0700, Frank <fb@sto.clm> wrote:
>
>>Steve de Mena wrote:
>>> Canuck57 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember reading that at the time it happened. I would have thought
>>>> the navy would have used something much more stable for critical
>>>> operations. Also more secure, like OpenBSD or something. Also cluster
>>>> them for fail over. Using NT was stupid, could have been real bad if
>>>> they failed in an active combat war zone at sea.
>>>
>>>
>>> NT Fail? What exactly do you know about Windows NT and its
>>> stability/reliability?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>>Pay no attention to him. He's just an MS hating lying linux troll.
>>Frank
>
> Frank of course is a sheep molesting, pathological liar and all around
> putz, doofus and world class moron. We all got your number Frank. No
> matter what you say, we know you're a psycho, a pervert and mental
> midget with absolutely no redeeming qualities at all.

Please don't mention sheep molesting in comp.os.linux.advocacy because you
are sure to wake up Roy Schestowitz.

There is good reason why he is known around the campus. as "baaaa baaa
Schestowitz"




--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

"Ivan Marsh" <ivanmarsh******.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.05.16.18.37.28.500559******.com...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 10:56:01 -0700, -hh wrote:
>
>> "dennis@home" <den...@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> ... no mention of vista gives you several choices including: linux,
>>> Mac, XP, 98, 95, CE, pSOS, DOS, and loads of others. Choose the best
>>> one for the application and everything will be fine.
>>
>> IIRC, the USN had been using NT on some of their ships a couple of years
>> ago.
>>
>> Here's some links:
>>
>> <http://www.gcn.com/print/17_17/33727-1.html>
>>
>> <http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/1998/07/13987>
>>
>> <http://windowsitpro.com/article/arti...nt-sinks-navy-
>> ship.html>
>>
>> These are all pretty dated; not sure if there's more current info online
>> or not.
>
> Sorry... but the Yorktown meltdown had to do with a divide by zero error
> in the engine power interface when the operator entered zero into a data
> input field which was the fault of the person who programmed the control
> software and had nothing to do with the operating system.
>
> *This should in no way be misconstrued as an endorsement of windows. I
> would not knowingly trust my life to a Microsoft OS.*

It still highlights the general poor quality of MS-Windows programming
methodologies spilling into serious software development cycles and today's
design techniques. While software has become more complex, it is also true
the teams developing it are much larger, better funded and generally less
disciplined. We somehow think a business NET ad-hoc programmer makes a
embedded systems programmer, and that is a fallacy for greed.

Quite frankly, it scares me to think MS-Windows is in command and control of
some warships, or even anything else. I wouldn't even board a cruise ship
if I thought it needed MS-Windows to make it go. Leave MS-Windows in the
pursers office, or the cocktail lounge. But not on the trim, power,
navigation -- sorry -- just don't trust the crap.

But people have already died because of MS-Windows insecurity and it isn't
widely acknowledged. Take the big NE power outage a couple of years ago.
At first, US said Canada did it, then Canada said the US did it. When in
fact it was some Microsoft Windows virus on a SCADA control network making
response so pitiful the power grid popped off line. Those dependant on
electricity, say a home medical device of some sort, some died.

Cite:
http://www.news.com/2100-1011_3-5063997.html

Yet we blindly fall into the pit of MS-Windows is good everywhere. When it
is clearly, as in Vista's case, and unpredictable over complex piece of
bloatware not fit for use anywhere except a wet fanboys dreams.

We need to get back to basics in this business and skip the caffeinated hype
turkey talk.



-----------
Incoming, oops, reboot - boom!

"Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
news:1jbv7a0klatk.uynjo2lja7tj$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 13:37:30 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>
>
>> *This should in no way be misconstrued as an endorsement of windows. I
>> would not knowingly trust my life to a Microsoft OS.*
>
> Ever been in a hospital?
> If so ,you already have.
>
> Ever go to the doctor?
> If so, you already have.
>
> Ever go to the dentist?
> If so you already have.
>
> Ever go to the pharmacy to get medications?
> If so you already have.

Have you ever run Vista?
Root canals are nicer in the end, the pain goes away.

On Sat, 17 May 2008 00:07:05 GMT, Canuck57 wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
> news:1jbv7a0klatk.uynjo2lja7tj$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 13:37:30 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>
>>
>>> *This should in no way be misconstrued as an endorsement of windows. I
>>> would not knowingly trust my life to a Microsoft OS.*
>>
>> Ever been in a hospital?
>> If so ,you already have.
>>
>> Ever go to the doctor?
>> If so, you already have.
>>
>> Ever go to the dentist?
>> If so you already have.
>>
>> Ever go to the pharmacy to get medications?
>> If so you already have.
>
> Have you ever run Vista?
> Root canals are nicer in the end, the pain goes away.

I hate Vista however I'll still give root canal the edge in pain.

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
> >>>> wrote
> >>> At least Java went to Mars.
> >>
> >> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
> >> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
> >
> > Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
> > trivial?
>
> Not at all.
>
> The thing fscked up.
>
> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.

Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?

When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so I
couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
automotive industry use English standard units?!

In article <JkpXj.143179$rd2.64433@pd7urf3no>,
"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:

> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
> news:1jbv7a0klatk.uynjo2lja7tj$.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Fri, 16 May 2008 13:37:30 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> >
> >
> >> *This should in no way be misconstrued as an endorsement of windows. I
> >> would not knowingly trust my life to a Microsoft OS.*
> >
> > Ever been in a hospital?
> > If so ,you already have.
> >
> > Ever go to the doctor?
> > If so, you already have.
> >
> > Ever go to the dentist?
> > If so you already have.
> >
> > Ever go to the pharmacy to get medications?
> > If so you already have.
>
> Have you ever run Vista?
> Root canals are nicer in the end, the pain goes away.

My dentist uses a Macintosh :-P

On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:

> In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
>>>>>> wrote
>>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
>>>>
>>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
>>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
>>>
>>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
>>> trivial?
>>
>> Not at all.
>>
>> The thing fscked up.
>>
>> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
>
> Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
> Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
> designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?

I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
One team was using English the other metric.

Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
Englsih vs MKS.

> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so I
> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
> automotive industry use English standard units?!

The problem is thinking and converting.

Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.
They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.

If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.


--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:59:17 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:

> In article <JkpXj.143179$rd2.64433@pd7urf3no>,
> "Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote:
>
>> "Moshe Goldfarb" <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote in message
>> news:1jbv7a0klatk.uynjo2lja7tj$.dlg@40tude.net...
>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 13:37:30 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> *This should in no way be misconstrued as an endorsement of windows. I
>>>> would not knowingly trust my life to a Microsoft OS.*
>>>
>>> Ever been in a hospital?
>>> If so ,you already have.
>>>
>>> Ever go to the doctor?
>>> If so, you already have.
>>>
>>> Ever go to the dentist?
>>> If so you already have.
>>>
>>> Ever go to the pharmacy to get medications?
>>> If so you already have.
>>
>> Have you ever run Vista?
>> Root canals are nicer in the end, the pain goes away.
>
> My dentist uses a Macintosh :-P

My ENT does as well :)

--
Moshe Goldfarb
Collector of soaps from around the globe.
Please visit The Hall of Linux Idiots:
http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/

John wrote:
> Steve de Mena wrote:
>> John wrote:
>>>
>>> "Steve de Mena" <steve@stevedemena.com> wrote in message
>>> news:qfudncEI1P8olLDVnZ2dnUVZ_qzinZ2d@giganews.com ...
>>>> hsyq8xg******.com wrote:
>>>>> www.gcn.com/print/27_8/46117-1.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting quotes --
>>>>>
>>>>> “We have achieved the promises of Moore’s Law,”
>>>>>
>>>>> “Much more pervasive now is the problem with software.”
>>>>>
>>>>> “Software is getting bigger and more complex,"
>>>>>
>>>>> "The Windows Vista operating system is so much bigger than its
>>>>> predecessors, that it is not any faster even though processing speeds
>>>>> have increased.”
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> = = = ==================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't see anywhere in this article where they say what OSs they
>>>> are using.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Advocating junk again AS USUAL I see.
>>
>> I was making a statement of FACT, as usual.
>>
>> Stev
>
>
> No you stated NO FACT. The article clearly mentioned Vista.

Since I know from our previous discussions that you are a little slow,
I'll say it again, a little slower this time....

"I don't see anywhere in this article where they say what OSs they are
using."

Steve

"Canuck57" <dave-no_spam@unixhome.net> wrote in message
news:KooXj.143874$Cj7.67171@pd7urf2no...


> I remember reading that at the time it happened. I would have thought the
> navy would have used something much more stable for critical operations.
> Also more secure, like OpenBSD or something. Also cluster them for fail
> over.

Clustering doesn't help with application software faults.
Its a common mistake people make, like thinking RAID is a substitute for
backups.


> Using NT was stupid, could have been real bad if they failed in an active
> combat war zone at sea.

Any application software failing during combat could be a problem.
That is why they like mature software on military systems.

"Bruce Grubb" <bgrubb@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:bgrubb-1799DB.19545916052008@news.zianet.com...

> When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so I
> couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
> automotive industry use English standard units?!

If you look at the engineering you will find the automotive industry is
metric.

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:g0jfhc$3e7$1@news.datemas.de...
>
>
> <hsyq8xg******.com> wrote in message
> news:e18a23ab-2f89-4da8-9dc3-cdd9a1ac677b@1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> A poor troll..
> the important bit is
>
>>>>>
> “Software gets slower because the data operating over a network is
> increasing faster than computer processing rates,” Hull said.
>
> Some satellites generate several gigabytes of data per second, Hull
> said. “The next generation may be terabytes of information per
> second,” he said. “If a computer has to deal with 100 times or 1,000
> times the amount of data today than it did yesterday, it’s going to be
> swamped.”
> <<<<<
>
>
> Its the same for all OSes so you can insert any OS you like and the post
> means the same.
>
> In fact you probably can't insert windows there at all as its unlikely to
> run the processing of terabytes of data from a satellite and it certainly
> will not be Vista as it hasn't been around long enough and is a desktop
> OS.

Erm, doesn't the military have operating systems that are top secret? If
they use windows or any of the other large operating systems it's for normal
stuff like record keeping and files. They don't guide satellites or missiles
with it or navigate ships.




>
> follow ups set!

In article <9t96hqagi7vh.172qilsj253n$.dlg@40tude.net>,
Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 16 May 2008 19:55:15 -0600, Bruce Grubb wrote:
>
> > In article <1l1i4zt4ow56w.1le5ew7pmd4of$.dlg@40tude.net>,
> > Moshe Goldfarb <brick.n.straw******.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:00:21 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 17:57:01 -0400, Moshe Goldfarb wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:47:58 -0500, Ivan Marsh wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, 16 May 2008 14:06:43 -0700, The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Ivan Marsh <ivanmarsh******.com>
> >>>>>> wrote
> >>>>> At least Java went to Mars.
> >>>>
> >>>> Was Java running the innards of that 40 million dollar Tonka Toy that
> >>>> went brain dead on Mars 10 minutes after it landed?
> >>>
> >>> Suggesting that hitting Mars much less landing safely on the surface is
> >>> trivial?
> >>
> >> Not at all.
> >>
> >> The thing fscked up.
> >>
> >> I'm just wondering if Java was what fscked it up.
> >
> > Might have been who ever NASA used as the subcontracter. Remember how
> > Lockheed Martin went off and put English standard units into equations
> > designed for Metric units and got the Mars Climate Orbiter clobbered?
>
> I believe they did a similar thing with the Hubble as well.
> One team was using English the other metric.
>
> Personally, as an Engineer, I could never understand the reasoning for
> Englsih vs MKS.
>
> > When I went to college in the mid 1980's our physics book used metric so I
> > couldn't understand this. I mean why on Earth would anyone outside the
> > automotive industry use English standard units?!
>
> The problem is thinking and converting.
>
> Example: Typical American (like me) knows a foot is *this long* (stretch
> your arms out) but has no idea how big a meter is.

I guess it is all a matter of when you grew up. My youth was filled with
those little metric shows on PBS that were basically 30 min PSAs. I still
remember that a meter is just a little longer than a yard, a dime is about
1 mm in thickness, and that a cubic decimeter = 1 liter = 1 kilogram which
is around 2.2 pounds. I also remember the old pint is a pound (ie 16
ounces) of the common system as well.

> They are constantly trying to convert which makes a mess of things.
>
> If they were taught in terms of MKS their would be no problem.

Strange thing is that the University of Utah taught ALL its physics courses
in metric in the mid 1980's. I guess I thought that is the way all
universities of that time taught their courses.