"SG" <sorry@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:eySLp4utIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Gordon,
>
> You don't use it, but yet you complain?

I don't use it for the very reason stated - that files made with XP backup
can't be read by Vista backup, and I bet that Windows 7 won't read backups
made in Vista.

> Furthermore if MS did integrated it in Visa for backward compatibility
> like Office as you stated, it's most likely it would require far more code
> than any 3rd. party app out there that does the job.

Absolute rubbish. Why not just use ONE backup program and incorporate the
same utility in subsequent versions of Windows? Like Notepad for example.
That's been in all versions of Windows and still is today. It's just an
example of MS not thinking.

"Nonny" <nonnymoose******.com> wrote in message
news:p8cp24hbo1tujk5aj312g1jnsb600e3rhq@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:26:13 -0400, "C.B."
> <notreallyc.b.mullen@windowslive.com> wrote:
>
>>> That's all very well, but WHY did MS make ALL their included backup
>>> utilities incompatible with each other? Why should someone NEED to
>>> download another utility just to restore backups made with MS Backup
>>> utilities?
>>
>>
>> If Microsoft made all their new and/or advanced software backwards
>>compatible with previous Microsoft software and third party software the
>>OS
>>would be so bloated and complicated nobody would want to use it.
>> Vista is already bloated. Why make it more so? I certainly wouldn't
>>want an OS that crashed constantly due to conflicts caused by the
>>complexity
>>of the OS itself.
>> The solution is simple. Download the utility you need.
>
> Well put.


No it's not - it's rubbish. Microsoft HAVE used the same utility right
across all Windows versions - notepad. So why can't they do that with a
simple backup utility? It's not rocket science...

Well I value your opinion, so I won't say your reply is rubbish. Have you
ever written any code in any language Gordon?. It's easy to criticize, but
until you truly know what goes into writing any program I wouldn't be so
quick judge MS or any other software writer. I'm sorry, but using Notepad as
your example is very poor. There's very few files required to run Notepad
compared to MS Backup. I see in another reply you say it's not rocket
science, so why not write your own program. Who knows it may be a huge hit
and you can retire at a young age :>) anyway you can have the last word as
I'm moving on.

--
All the best,
SG

Is your computer system ready for Vista?
https://winqual.microsoft.com/hcl/
Want to keep up with the latest news from MS?
http://news.google.com/nwshp?tab=wn&ned=us&topic=t
Just type in Microsoft

"Gordon" <gbplinux******.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:g0j9oi$bjk$1@news.mixmin.net...
> "SG" <sorry@nomail.com> wrote in message
> news:eySLp4utIHA.3680@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Gordon,
>>
>> You don't use it, but yet you complain?
>
> I don't use it for the very reason stated - that files made with XP backup
> can't be read by Vista backup, and I bet that Windows 7 won't read backups
> made in Vista.
>
>> Furthermore if MS did integrated it in Visa for backward compatibility
>> like Office as you stated, it's most likely it would require far more
>> code than any 3rd. party app out there that does the job.
>
> Absolute rubbish. Why not just use ONE backup program and incorporate the
> same utility in subsequent versions of Windows? Like Notepad for example.
> That's been in all versions of Windows and still is today. It's just an
> example of MS not thinking.
>
>
>
>

What is the difference between a program that opens 'raw' (as in unformatted) text (OK you
can set fonts and styles), and an all encompassing (or simple) back up utility?

The hint is in previous posts, it's in the code. I don't know the how and why to explain
your question, but from my experience, no matter how well your program code is constructed,
how good the object design, or component design is in terms of flexibility or maintenance,
you will come to a version that is not always completely backward compatible. That is when
bigger than small changes to huge changes may be required.

I think it wasn't purposely done to annoy their customers. There are simple solutions that
have been posted to suggest this.

- GorkusPuss

Gordon wrote:
> "Nonny" <nonnymoose******.com> wrote in message
> news:p8cp24hbo1tujk5aj312g1jnsb600e3rhq@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:26:13 -0400, "C.B."
>> <notreallyc.b.mullen@windowslive.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> That's all very well, but WHY did MS make ALL their included backup
>>>> utilities incompatible with each other? Why should someone NEED to
>>>> download another utility just to restore backups made with MS Backup
>>>> utilities?
>>>
>>>
>>> If Microsoft made all their new and/or advanced software backwards
>>> compatible with previous Microsoft software and third party software
>>> the OS
>>> would be so bloated and complicated nobody would want to use it.
>>> Vista is already bloated. Why make it more so? I certainly wouldn't
>>> want an OS that crashed constantly due to conflicts caused by the
>>> complexity
>>> of the OS itself.
>>> The solution is simple. Download the utility you need.
>>
>> Well put.
>
>
> No it's not - it's rubbish. Microsoft HAVE used the same utility right
> across all Windows versions - notepad. So why can't they do that with a
> simple backup utility? It's not rocket science...

From the perspective of the user and customer, no one cares about the
details and complexity of the solution. If it works, it works or it's a
garbage.

We have a term called "professional" who get paid to get things done and if
it's out of one's capacity, one can either quit or stop selling the products
or services.

Yes, not everyone can be a competent engineer or professional, and it's a
job only for those who can undertake challenges not just can play cheap lip
services.


"GorkusPuss" <g_p@msnews.grp> wrote in message
news:%23w5vAlztIHA.5580@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> What is the difference between a program that opens 'raw' (as in
> unformatted) text (OK you can set fonts and styles), and an all
> encompassing (or simple) back up utility?
>
> The hint is in previous posts, it's in the code. I don't know the how and
> why to explain your question, but from my experience, no matter how well
> your program code is constructed, how good the object design, or component
> design is in terms of flexibility or maintenance, you will come to a
> version that is not always completely backward compatible. That is when
> bigger than small changes to huge changes may be required.
>
> I think it wasn't purposely done to annoy their customers. There are
> simple solutions that have been posted to suggest this.
>
> - GorkusPuss
>
> Gordon wrote:
>> "Nonny" <nonnymoose******.com> wrote in message
>> news:p8cp24hbo1tujk5aj312g1jnsb600e3rhq@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 17:26:13 -0400, "C.B."
>>> <notreallyc.b.mullen@windowslive.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That's all very well, but WHY did MS make ALL their included backup
>>>>> utilities incompatible with each other? Why should someone NEED to
>>>>> download another utility just to restore backups made with MS Backup
>>>>> utilities?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If Microsoft made all their new and/or advanced software backwards
>>>> compatible with previous Microsoft software and third party software
>>>> the OS
>>>> would be so bloated and complicated nobody would want to use it.
>>>> Vista is already bloated. Why make it more so? I certainly wouldn't
>>>> want an OS that crashed constantly due to conflicts caused by the
>>>> complexity
>>>> of the OS itself.
>>>> The solution is simple. Download the utility you need.
>>>
>>> Well put.
>>
>>
>> No it's not - it's rubbish. Microsoft HAVE used the same utility right
>> across all Windows versions - notepad. So why can't they do that with a
>> simple backup utility? It's not rocket science...

From the perspective of the user and the customer, there is a new product, the
"professionals" neither quit nor stop selling a products, or services. Why should they? When
it is no where near out of their capacity. Being a competent engineer or professional does
not imply when making a your next back up utility, it is different to your previous one.

If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the previous one, and thank
God for that (pardon the irony). In other words in a ever changing world, things
(everything) change(s), adapt and learn. Posts above this one state that professionals and
competent engineers have put together a better backup utility. Use it.

- GorkusPuss



xfile wrote:
> From the perspective of the user and customer, no one cares about the
> details and complexity of the solution. If it works, it works or it's a
> garbage.
>
> We have a term called "professional" who get paid to get things done and if
> it's out of one's capacity, one can either quit or stop selling the products
> or services.
>
> Yes, not everyone can be a competent engineer or professional, and it's a
> job only for those who can undertake challenges not just can play cheap lip
> services.
>

>Being a competent engineer or professional does not imply when making a
>your next back up utility, it is different to your previous one.

Exactly!

> If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the previous
> one, and thank God for that (pardon the irony).

The means the entire species is incompatible?

> Posts above this one state that professionals and competent engineers have
> put together a better backup utility. Use it.

Exactly! PS: I have not used Windows backup for very very long.

So why Windows provides a backup utility that doesn't work with the previous
version's and have people to buy a 3rd party utility?

Your logics contradicted to each other.



"GorkusPuss" <g_p@msnews.grp> wrote in message
news:OZTnPJ6tIHA.4716@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>
> From the perspective of the user and the customer, there is a new product,
> the "professionals" neither quit nor stop selling a products, or services.
> Why should they? When it is no where near out of their capacity. Being a
> competent engineer or professional does not imply when making a your next
> back up utility, it is different to your previous one.
>
> If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the previous
> one, and thank God for that (pardon the irony). In other words in a ever
> changing world, things (everything) change(s), adapt and learn. Posts
> above this one state that professionals and competent engineers have put
> together a better backup utility. Use it.
>
> - GorkusPuss
>
>
>
> xfile wrote:
>> From the perspective of the user and customer, no one cares about the
>> details and complexity of the solution. If it works, it works or it's a
>> garbage.
>>
>> We have a term called "professional" who get paid to get things done and
>> if it's out of one's capacity, one can either quit or stop selling the
>> products or services.
>>
>> Yes, not everyone can be a competent engineer or professional, and it's a
>> job only for those who can undertake challenges not just can play cheap
>> lip services.
>>

I think it doesn't contradict at all, quite the opposite, the question you asked was
answered, you just asked again. This is where I get off this circle.

- GorkusPuss

xfile wrote:
>> Being a competent engineer or professional does not imply when making a
>> your next back up utility, it is different to your previous one.
>
> Exactly!
>
>> If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the previous
>> one, and thank God for that (pardon the irony).
>
> The means the entire species is incompatible?
>
>> Posts above this one state that professionals and competent engineers have
>> put together a better backup utility. Use it.
>
> Exactly! PS: I have not used Windows backup for very very long.
>
> So why Windows provides a backup utility that doesn't work with the previous
> version's and have people to buy a 3rd party utility?
>
> Your logics contradicted to each other.
>
>
>
> "GorkusPuss" <g_p@msnews.grp> wrote in message
> news:OZTnPJ6tIHA.4716@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> From the perspective of the user and the customer, there is a new product,
>> the "professionals" neither quit nor stop selling a products, or services.
>> Why should they? When it is no where near out of their capacity. Being a
>> competent engineer or professional does not imply when making a your next
>> back up utility, it is different to your previous one.
>>
>> If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the previous
>> one, and thank God for that (pardon the irony). In other words in a ever
>> changing world, things (everything) change(s), adapt and learn. Posts
>> above this one state that professionals and competent engineers have put
>> together a better backup utility. Use it.
>>
>> - GorkusPuss
>>
>>
>>
>> xfile wrote:
>>> From the perspective of the user and customer, no one cares about the
>>> details and complexity of the solution. If it works, it works or it's a
>>> garbage.
>>>
>>> We have a term called "professional" who get paid to get things done and
>>> if it's out of one's capacity, one can either quit or stop selling the
>>> products or services.
>>>
>>> Yes, not everyone can be a competent engineer or professional, and it's a
>>> job only for those who can undertake challenges not just can play cheap
>>> lip services.
>>>
>
>

I normally wouldn't want to do this but just to let those of you who wish to
turn your face away from a problem to know:

You (and SG) first defended that the issue is difficult to address due to
complicated programming issues involved and then many of you stated that
there are 3rd party solutions that could do a better job and avoid the
issue, and you superficially, stated "that professionals and competent
engineers have put together a better backup utility".

In other words, you acknowledged that this is an issue and since it can be
addressed by professionals and competent engineers of a 3rd party provider,
you also "indirectly implied" that MS engineers are incompetent to see or
address the problem because others could.

So what is the purpose for the blind defense and challenging the one using
an "example" with those nonsense jargons?


"GorkusPuss" <g_p@msnews.grp> wrote in message
news:uA5jCe6tIHA.4772@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> I think it doesn't contradict at all, quite the opposite, the question you
> asked was answered, you just asked again. This is where I get off this
> circle.
>
> - GorkusPuss
>
> xfile wrote:
>>> Being a competent engineer or professional does not imply when making a
>>> your next back up utility, it is different to your previous one.
>>
>> Exactly!
>>
>>> If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the
>>> previous one, and thank God for that (pardon the irony).
>>
>> The means the entire species is incompatible?
>>
>>> Posts above this one state that professionals and competent engineers
>>> have put together a better backup utility. Use it.
>>
>> Exactly! PS: I have not used Windows backup for very very long.
>>
>> So why Windows provides a backup utility that doesn't work with the
>> previous version's and have people to buy a 3rd party utility?
>>
>> Your logics contradicted to each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> "GorkusPuss" <g_p@msnews.grp> wrote in message
>> news:OZTnPJ6tIHA.4716@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> From the perspective of the user and the customer, there is a new
>>> product, the "professionals" neither quit nor stop selling a products,
>>> or services. Why should they? When it is no where near out of their
>>> capacity. Being a competent engineer or professional does not imply when
>>> making a your next back up utility, it is different to your previous
>>> one.
>>>
>>> If evolution is true, the entire species is incompatible with the
>>> previous one, and thank God for that (pardon the irony). In other words
>>> in a ever changing world, things (everything) change(s), adapt and
>>> learn. Posts above this one state that professionals and competent
>>> engineers have put together a better backup utility. Use it.
>>>
>>> - GorkusPuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> xfile wrote:
>>>> From the perspective of the user and customer, no one cares about the
>>>> details and complexity of the solution. If it works, it works or it's
>>>> a garbage.
>>>>
>>>> We have a term called "professional" who get paid to get things done
>>>> and if it's out of one's capacity, one can either quit or stop selling
>>>> the products or services.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, not everyone can be a competent engineer or professional, and it's
>>>> a job only for those who can undertake challenges not just can play
>>>> cheap lip services.
>>>>
>>