[url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]

Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because they
will persist and make the next
version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware and
software to confim
with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.

Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP on a
single core.

So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.

Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol



--
What people are REALLY saying about Vista:
[url]http://www.microsplot.com/news/2007/12/anything_speechless_100_things_people_are_really_saying_about_windows_vista[/url]

50 Ways to leave your Vista....

CHORUS:

You just format the drive , Clive
Get a New Mac , Jack
Y'don't need that crap toy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Boot from a *nix, Jix
You don't need to discuss much
Install XP, Lee
And get yourself free

From: "On the Bridge!" <On@the,Bridge>

| [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]
|
| Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because they
| will persist and make the next
| version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware and
| software to confim
| with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.
|
| Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP on a
| single core.
|
| So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.
|
| Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol
|

It used to be that hardware drove the software market.

In the past few yaers, it is reversed.

Software now drives the hardware market.


--
Dave
[url]http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html[/url]
Multi-AV - [url]http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp[/url]

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:OFZ7OAkgIHA.5088@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> From: "On the Bridge!" <On@the,Bridge>
>
> | [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]
> |
> | Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because they
> | will persist and make the next
> | version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware and
> | software to confim
> | with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.
> |
> | Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP on
> a
> | single core.
> |
> | So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.
> |
> | Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol
> |
>
> It used to be that hardware drove the software market.[/color]

I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 / 7090
days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The same in
the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core and I/O
capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that required
more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then networking.
Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case where h/w drove
s/w. ??
--
BobF.
[color=blue]
>
> In the past few yaers, it is reversed.
>
> Software now drives the hardware market.
>
>
> --
> Dave
> [url]http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html[/url]
> Multi-AV - [url]http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp[/url]
>
>[/color]

of course it is the software driving the hardware... LOL

some fools said in here a while back that it was the other way around.

this is wrong of course... it was never this way nor will it ever be like
this.

If you know how innovation works, you will see that everything starts with
an idea, and a need,
the hardware is only there to serve the idea and need that is expressed by
the software...

so the evolution follows this path

Human idea and need> creation of the software that will serve this idea or
need> the creation and improvment of the hardware to serve the software that
serves the idea or need.

of course there are other circles here, but the above is the dominant flow
of innovation. All others are sub-flows.










"Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com> wrote in message
news:742C0AB0-90AF-44CC-A5A3-353DEA6FA855@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
> news:OFZ7OAkgIHA.5088@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> From: "On the Bridge!" <On@the,Bridge>
>>
>> | [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]
>> |
>> | Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because
>> they
>> | will persist and make the next
>> | version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware
>> and
>> | software to confim
>> | with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.
>> |
>> | Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP
>> on a
>> | single core.
>> |
>> | So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.
>> |
>> | Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol
>> |
>>
>> It used to be that hardware drove the software market.[/color]
>
> I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 / 7090
> days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The same in
> the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core and I/O
> capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that required
> more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then networking.
> Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case where h/w drove
> s/w. ??
> --
> BobF.
>[color=green]
>>
>> In the past few yaers, it is reversed.
>>
>> Software now drives the hardware market.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> [url]http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html[/url]
>> Multi-AV - [url]http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp[/url]
>>
>>[/color]
>
>
>
>[/color]

From: "Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com>


|
| I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 / 7090
| days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The same in
| the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core and I/O
| capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that required
| more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then networking.
| Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case where h/w drove
| s/w. ??

Not from my experiences and that goes back to CP/M.

I have seen it all. This includes the days when the 8080 was introduced after the 8086
because there was so much 8 bit hardware out in the market.

Then there was the conversion kits to allow 386sx processor to work on 286 motherboards.

Even when Microsoft introduced Windows v1.x it conformed to the PC XT platform which
required a CGA or Hercules video card, a 10MB hard disk and preferrably an Expanded Memory
Module.

Now hardware manuafacturers are working hard to catch up with the software vendors to match
the requirements of the software.


--
Dave
[url]http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html[/url]
Multi-AV - [url]http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp[/url]

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:e9c6yUkgIHA.4684@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> From: "Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com>
>
>
> |
> | I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 /
> 7090
> | days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The same
> in
> | the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core and
> I/O
> | capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that required
> | more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then networking.
> | Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case where h/w drove
> | s/w. ??
>
> Not from my experiences and that goes back to CP/M.
>
> I have seen it all. This includes the days when the 8080 was introduced
> after the 8086
> because there was so much 8 bit hardware out in the market.[/color]

In what parallel universe was the 8080 released after the 8086? 8080 was
1974, 8086 was 1978.

From: "Bob Campbell" <bob@bob.bob>


|
| In what parallel universe was the 8080 released after the 8086? 8080 was
| 1974, 8086 was 1978.

I stated the facts incorrectly via a typo. Mia culpa.

I meant ...

"This includes the days when the 8088 was introduced after the 8086
because there was so much 8 bit hardware out in the market."

--
Dave
[url]http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html[/url]
Multi-AV - [url]http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp[/url]

"Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com> wrote in message
news:742C0AB0-90AF-44CC-A5A3-353DEA6FA855@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
> news:OFZ7OAkgIHA.5088@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> From: "On the Bridge!" <On@the,Bridge>
>>
>> | [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]
>> |
>> | Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because
>> they
>> | will persist and make the next
>> | version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware
>> and
>> | software to confim
>> | with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.
>> |
>> | Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP
>> on a
>> | single core.
>> |
>> | So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.
>> |
>> | Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol
>> |
>>
>> It used to be that hardware drove the software market.[/color]
>
> I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 / 7090
> days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The same in
> the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core and I/O
> capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that required
> more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then networking.
> Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case where h/w drove
> s/w. ??[/color]


The Amiga.

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:e9c6yUkgIHA.4684@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> From: "Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com>
>
>
> |
> | I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 /
> 7090
> | days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The same
> in
> | the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core and
> I/O
> | capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that required
> | more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then networking.
> | Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case where h/w drove
> | s/w. ??
>[/color]
When Tom Pitman wrote Tiny Basic (2K running on a PTS) he was bounded by the
hardware. Ohters also push a wapping 4K a 8K version, all pushing hardware.
[color=blue]
> Not from my experiences and that goes back to CP/M.[/color]

When Gary Kildall wrote CP/M, he too was bounder by h/w constraints and push
the h/w
[color=blue]
>
> I have seen it all. This includes the days when the 8080 was introduced
> after the 8086
> because there was so much 8 bit hardware out in the market.[/color]

The 8080 was product way before the 8086 and also was an answer to the
programmers. s/w was out before the products were released. I was in the
labs waiting for the chips to show up so we could run our s/w
[color=blue]
>
> Then there was the conversion kits to allow 386sx processor to work on 286
> motherboards.[/color]

Again a drive to satisfy the size and capabilities of s/w.
[color=blue]
>
> Even when Microsoft introduced Windows v1.x it conformed to the PC XT
> platform which
> required a CGA or Hercules video card, a 10MB hard disk and preferrably an
> Expanded Memory
> Module.[/color]

The MS guys were out there, way before the h/w arrived. The whole concept
of Windows, a GUI, a mouse was developed at PARC and perpetuated by Apple
and MS. The ideas caused developent, drove the s/w developers and again
were ready when the h/w arrived.
[color=blue]
>
> Now hardware manuafacturers are working hard to catch up with the software
> vendors to match
> the requirements of the software.
>[/color]

Not "Now", as if there's been a changed. Better written " So it
continues..."
[color=blue]
>
> --
> Dave
> [url]http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html[/url]
> Multi-AV - [url]http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp[/url]
>
>[/color]

--
BobF.

"David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
news:urifVhkgIHA.1164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> From: "Bob Campbell" <bob@bob.bob>
>
>
> |
> | In what parallel universe was the 8080 released after the 8086? 8080
> was
> | 1974, 8086 was 1978.
>
> I stated the facts incorrectly via a typo. Mia culpa.
>
> I meant ...
>
> "This includes the days when the 8088 was introduced after the 8086
> because there was so much 8 bit hardware out in the market."[/color]

After I sent my reply above, that suddenly occurred to me! :-)

No biggie.

"Alpha" <none@none> wrote in message
news:u92Q1gkgIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> "Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com> wrote in message
> news:742C0AB0-90AF-44CC-A5A3-353DEA6FA855@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
>> news:OFZ7OAkgIHA.5088@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> From: "On the Bridge!" <On@the,Bridge>
>>>
>>> | [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]
>>> |
>>> | Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because
>>> they
>>> | will persist and make the next
>>> | version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware
>>> and
>>> | software to confim
>>> | with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.
>>> |
>>> | Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP
>>> on a
>>> | single core.
>>> |
>>> | So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.
>>> |
>>> | Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol
>>> |
>>>
>>> It used to be that hardware drove the software market.[/color]
>>
>> I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 /
>> 7090 days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The
>> same in the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more Core
>> and I/O capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w that
>> required more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then
>> networking. Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case
>> where h/w drove s/w. ??[/color]
>
>
> The Amiga.
>[/color]

I owned an Amiga 500 from 1988 to 1991. Got a Tandy and never looked back.
Now, Dell Diminsion E521 bought from the same place when the Amiga came.
AAFES.

"Bobby McNulty" <snyder100@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:FD413769-0F06-4D33-9D9A-B9BDA7EA4938@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Alpha" <none@none> wrote in message
> news:u92Q1gkgIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>
>> "Bob F." <bob@NOSPAN.com> wrote in message
>> news:742C0AB0-90AF-44CC-A5A3-353DEA6FA855@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
>>> "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> wrote in message
>>> news:OFZ7OAkgIHA.5088@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> From: "On the Bridge!" <On@the,Bridge>
>>>>
>>>> | [url]http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1254[/url]
>>>> |
>>>> | Even if vista is crap, and it is, Microsoft will prevail... because
>>>> they
>>>> | will persist and make the next
>>>> | version of windows better, and also force all the industry, hardware
>>>> and
>>>> | software to confim
>>>> | with the slow, unstable, incompatible, and bloated OS called vista.
>>>> |
>>>> | Running Vista on a 4 core 4 gig ram machine, is as good as running XP
>>>> on a
>>>> | single core.
>>>> |
>>>> | So? Those 4 cores are now as cheap as 1 core was.
>>>> |
>>>> | Vista is making high end hardware cheaper.... lol
>>>> |
>>>>
>>>> It used to be that hardware drove the software market.
>>>
>>> I think the s/w market always drove the h/w market. Back in my 709 /
>>> 7090 days, the progrmmers pushed for more capability from the h/w. The
>>> same in the OS 360 days. The PDP8 programmers kept pushing for more
>>> Core and I/O capability. The Apple / Mac / PC/s all were pushed by s/w
>>> that required more RAM, faster hardware, more complex I/O... and then
>>> networking. Software is still pushing. I can't ever remember a case
>>> where h/w drove s/w. ??[/color]
>>
>>
>> The Amiga.
>>[/color]
>
> I owned an Amiga 500 from 1988 to 1991. Got a Tandy and never looked back.
> Now, Dell Diminsion E521 bought from the same place when the Amiga came.
> AAFES.
>[/color]

We're talking about the bigger picture here. Specific platforms like the
Amiga only provided space for people who wanted to participate in the
rewards of programming. They accepted the bounds like good engineers,
followed and accepted the marketing and business requirements and
programmed within those bounds. But you can be sure they kept knocking
against walls and were also hoping for the days of big, faster, more feature
rich systems on which to develop.

--
BobF.