On Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:55:59 -0500, Anton Hinds wrote
(in article <#ABPY34KIHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>):
[color=blue]
> I have been using Vista for 4 months now.[/color]

It's been about six months for me.
[color=blue]
> All in all, I like the OS
> (after disabling UAC). Aero is slick and performance is great. However,
> I am plagued by annoying issues with device drivers and general
> instability. A few examples are:
>
> 1. Explorer crashes a couple times a week. Usually after selecting a
> file in an "Open File" dialog, but also sometimes just when starting
> explorer.[/color]

Explorer on Vista has been a major pain. The Vista desktop is, hands down,
the single most problematic part of Vista for me.
[color=blue]
>
> 2. My wireless intermittently fails where I cannot see any access
> points. Vista says it detected a problem but it could not be fixed. I
> have to reboot to fix it.[/color]

My original wireless setup, a D-Link internal card, simply wouldn't work with
Vista, period, despite allegedly having the proper drivers. My new wireless
setup, a Netgear USB dongle, works... sometimes.
[color=blue]
>
> 3. My wireless has problems detecting access points that do not
> broadcast an SSID. I typically have to refresh my network list several
> times to see the access point.[/color]

The Netgear will sometimes refuse to connection to a WAP that uses WPA or
WPA2. After I fiddle with it a little, it connects.
[color=blue]
>
> 4. About once a week, my video driver fails on boot. I have to reboot to
> fix it.[/color]

Do you have the 'black-screen-with-mouse-pointer' problem? Basically what
happens every ever so often (such as _right now_, which is why I'm typing
this on my Mac...) when I boot Vista I get perfectly normal behaviour all the
way to the password entry screen. I enter my password, and get the 'welcome'
screen with the spinning circle. That sits there for a while, as usual, and
then the screen goes black, again as usual... except that usually when it
does, it shows the mouse pointer and the spinning circle, and it almost
immediately starts loading the Vista desktop. About one third of the time,
instead of that, I just get the mouse pointer in a perfectly black screen.
There's disk activity. There's sound effects. Just nothing visible except the
mouse pointer. Clicking, left or right, does _nothing_. Most of the time,
hitting control-alt-delete brings up the task manager and I can log out and
log back in... and this time everything is just fine. Sometimes
control-alt-delete does _nothing_, and the only cure is a power-switch
shutdown and reboot. If I'm in a hurry, it's faster to move to the Mac than
to fiddle with Vista...

I don't think that this is a driver issue.
[color=blue]
>
> 5. I use dual monitors. Vista still gets confused from time to time
> which side my second monitor is on when coming back from hibernate.[/color]

Only one monitor. Every ever so often the Vista desktop crashes and I get a
little note about a problem with the drivers. I have most current drivers
installed. I tried rolling back; things got worse. I have a NVIDI GeForce
6200 video card; not exactly top of the line, to be sure, but still a fairly
good card.
[color=blue]
>
> 6. Periodically, the search feature in explorer incorrectly shows no
> results. For example, type "txt" in the search field and it doesn't show
> any files even though there are files named readme.txt and notes.txt in
> that directory.
>
> Vista has been out for over a year now. I know a lot of my issues are
> due to third party drivers (Intel and NVIDIA mostly). However, it is
> ultimately Microsoft's problem when their OS simply does not work with
> existing mainstream equipment.
>
> Explorer crashes seem to be a common problem and this is unacceptable a
> year after release.[/color]

Ooh, yes.
[color=blue]
> I know a lot of people are waiting for SP1, but
> Microsoft themselves are downplaying the importance a service pack. How
> long do I have to wait for Vista to be stable?[/color]

A very long time. I am increasingly using my Mac for most things, and using
XP for many more, and using Vista only when I absolutely have to.

Fortunately I got Vista Business at the education price (I teach part-time in
a community college, and the book store sells all kinds of Microsoft products
at low prices to students and staff) so I'm not out much. I'd be _really_
annoyed if I'd ponied up a couple hundred for this; it's bad enough that I
paid $20.

I finally went out and bought XP yesterday, after using vista premium
for several months. The bottom line for me is that vista is a resource
hog that simply is not compatible with today's hardware. My prior use
is audio recording and I use high-end audio interface. The company
actually even develops a WaveRT driver for audio, which is not common.
Getting a good recording done without any glitches is almost impossible.

There is no other solution but to use XP. I find it amazing that MS
took and operating system that was reliably used for thousands of
applications and purposes and replaced it with a new OS that almost
guarantees that some/many of the applications can no longer be used.
Boggles the mind.

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:[color=blue]
> "...ultimately Microsoft's problem when their OS simply does not work with
> existing mainstream equipment."
> A lot of older hardware is supported while a lot is not.
> The older the hardware the less likely it will ever get Windows Vista
> support.
> It is a problem for users, hardware manufacturers and Microsoft.
> However it is the hardware manufacturers responsibility to create
> drivers for their hardware.
> The manufacturers decide which if any hardware they need to support
> based on their perception of their customers needs balanced with needed
> resources and other factors.
> If the manufacturer decides not to support hardware there is nothing
> anyone can do.
> However what you can do...
> Contact the manufacturers of hardware you want Windows Vista support.
> The customers and not Microsoft pay for the products so the customers
> desires probably weigh more than Microsoft.
> Did you verify Windows Vista compatibility of your essential hardware
> and software before purchasing Windows Vista?
>
> Some of your other issues may be resolved by updates.
> Have you installed all the latest updates from Microsoft?
> Make sure you have the latest drivers.
> Manufacturers are still updating their drivers with newer Windows Vista
> drivers always being released.
>
> UAC shows often initially when installing hardware and software and
> configuring the computer.
> After that UAC is rare.
> I rarely see UAC prompts.
> If you see UAC after the initial set up is completed you may not be a
> typical user or are using older/poorly written software.
> Some have reported problems using software with UAC disabled when the
> software was installed with UAC enabled.
>[/color]

Windows XP has nor been replaced, at least not for a while.
Windows XP will be sold at least through the middle of next year and
will be supported for several more years.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]



"Doug Smith" <sluggo@telus.net> wrote in message
news:Baf6j.28109$HH2.22966@edtnps82...[color=blue]
>I finally went out and bought XP yesterday, after using vista premium
>for several months. The bottom line for me is that vista is a
>resource hog that simply is not compatible with today's hardware. My
>prior use is audio recording and I use high-end audio interface. The
>company actually even develops a WaveRT driver for audio, which is
>not common. Getting a good recording done without any glitches is
>almost impossible.
>
> There is no other solution but to use XP. I find it amazing that MS
> took and operating system that was reliably used for thousands of
> applications and purposes and replaced it with a new OS that almost
> guarantees that some/many of the applications can no longer be used.
> Boggles the mind.[/color]

"hielan' laddie" <bobbieburns@bobbybruce.co.uk.not> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C37EBF3B00511DEEF01846D8@newsgroups.comcast.net...[color=blue][color=green]
>> 1. Explorer crashes a couple times a week. Usually after selecting a
>> file in an "Open File" dialog, but also sometimes just when starting
>> explorer.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Explorer on Vista has been a major pain. The Vista desktop is, hands down,
> the single most problematic part of Vista for me.[/color]

What's problematic about it? If you're running into crashes, what is the
fault data from the Problem Reports and Solutions center for those failures:
[url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html#bucket[/url]
?

--
Speaking for myself only.
See [url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html[/url] for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:09:14 -0500, zachd [MSFT] wrote
(in article <#8WjU9TOIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>):
[color=blue]
>
> "hielan' laddie" <bobbieburns@bobbybruce.co.uk.not> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.C37EBF3B00511DEEF01846D8@newsgroups.comcast.net...[color=green][color=darkred]
>>> 1. Explorer crashes a couple times a week. Usually after selecting a
>>> file in an "Open File" dialog, but also sometimes just when starting
>>> explorer.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Explorer on Vista has been a major pain. The Vista desktop is, hands down,
>> the single most problematic part of Vista for me.[/color]
>
> What's problematic about it?[/color]

Well, for example, there's what I mentioned further down but you snipped:

"Do you have the 'black-screen-with-mouse-pointer' problem? Basically what
happens every ever so often (such as _right now_, which is why I'm typing
this on my Mac...) when I boot Vista I get perfectly normal behaviour all the
way to the password entry screen. I enter my password, and get the 'welcome'
screen with the spinning circle. That sits there for a while, as usual, and
then the screen goes black, again as usual... except that usually when it
does, it shows the mouse pointer and the spinning circle, and it almost
immediately starts loading the Vista desktop. About one third of the time,
instead of that, I just get the mouse pointer in a perfectly black screen.
There's disk activity. There's sound effects. Just nothing visible except the
mouse pointer. Clicking, left or right, does _nothing_. Most of the time,
hitting control-alt-delete brings up the task manager and I can log out and
log back in... and this time everything is just fine. Sometimes
control-alt-delete does _nothing_, and the only cure is a power-switch
shutdown and reboot. If I'm in a hurry, it's faster to move to the Mac than
to fiddle with Vista..."

That problem is Windows Explorer going tits-up on startup.

In addition, there's this other common problem, which I mentioned a little
below that:

"Every ever so often the Vista desktop crashes and I get a little note about
a problem with the drivers. I have most current drivers installed. I tried
rolling back; things got worse. I have a NVIDI GeForce 6200 video card; not
exactly top of the line, to be sure, but still a fairly good card."

[color=blue]
> If you're running into crashes, what is the
> fault data from the Problem Reports and Solutions center for those failures:[/color]

The black screen on startup doesn't show as an error in the PRS. The crashing
desktop shows as either Video Hardware Error or Could Not Find Driver
Software.

Given that the same hardware worked fine with XP and works fine _most_ of the
time with Vista, I suspect that there's more to it. The fact that the black
screen is not reported as an error makes me wonder what on Earth is going on.
[color=blue]
> [url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html#bucket[/url]
> ?
>
>[/color]

hielan' laddie wrote:[color=blue]
> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:09:14 -0500, zachd [MSFT] wrote
> (in article <#8WjU9TOIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>):
>[color=green]
>> "hielan' laddie" <bobbieburns@bobbybruce.co.uk.not> wrote in message
>> news:0001HW.C37EBF3B00511DEEF01846D8@newsgroups.comcast.net...[color=darkred]
>>>> 1. Explorer crashes a couple times a week. Usually after selecting a
>>>> file in an "Open File" dialog, but also sometimes just when starting
>>>> explorer.
>>> Explorer on Vista has been a major pain. The Vista desktop is, hands down,
>>> the single most problematic part of Vista for me.[/color]
>> What's problematic about it?[/color]
>
> Well, for example, there's what I mentioned further down but you snipped:
>
> "Do you have the 'black-screen-with-mouse-pointer' problem? Basically what
> happens every ever so often (such as _right now_, which is why I'm typing
> this on my Mac...) when I boot Vista I get perfectly normal behaviour all the
> way to the password entry screen. I enter my password, and get the 'welcome'
> screen with the spinning circle. That sits there for a while, as usual, and
> then the screen goes black, again as usual... except that usually when it
> does, it shows the mouse pointer and the spinning circle, and it almost
> immediately starts loading the Vista desktop. About one third of the time,
> instead of that, I just get the mouse pointer in a perfectly black screen.
> There's disk activity. There's sound effects. Just nothing visible except the
> mouse pointer. Clicking, left or right, does _nothing_. Most of the time,
> hitting control-alt-delete brings up the task manager and I can log out and
> log back in... and this time everything is just fine. Sometimes
> control-alt-delete does _nothing_, and the only cure is a power-switch
> shutdown and reboot. If I'm in a hurry, it's faster to move to the Mac than
> to fiddle with Vista..."
>
> That problem is Windows Explorer going tits-up on startup.
>
> In addition, there's this other common problem, which I mentioned a little
> below that:
>
> "Every ever so often the Vista desktop crashes and I get a little note about
> a problem with the drivers. I have most current drivers installed. I tried
> rolling back; things got worse. I have a NVIDI GeForce 6200 video card; not
> exactly top of the line, to be sure, but still a fairly good card."
>
>[color=green]
>> If you're running into crashes, what is the
>> fault data from the Problem Reports and Solutions center for those failures:[/color]
>
> The black screen on startup doesn't show as an error in the PRS. The crashing
> desktop shows as either Video Hardware Error or Could Not Find Driver
> Software.
>
> Given that the same hardware worked fine with XP and works fine _most_ of the
> time with Vista, I suspect that there's more to it. The fact that the black
> screen is not reported as an error makes me wonder what on Earth is going on.
>[color=green]
>> [url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html#bucket[/url]
>> ?
>>
>>[/color]
>
>[/color]
My guess is (if other things are working at the time) the video hardware
is displaying but not on the right "Screen", e.g. you have 2 monitors
but the display is on #3 - for want if a simple explanation. This would
explain why there's no error message and it "thinks" everything's fine.

It sounds like a hardware problem / driver problem or a memory (On the
video card) problem. If you have say an NVidia based motherboard there
are drivers for things like the PCI bus so check those for your MB maker
since if PCI is not being driven properly then a PCI, PCIE or even maybe
AGP device could be getting a valid but useless address...

I am a long way from being a hardware expert but I have seen a few very
odd "Random" effects over the years that eventually come down to some
timing error between devices, and it not always video - video driver
trouble, it could be something else - even the BIOS picking the wrong
default video device.

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:08:49 -0500, Charlie Tame wrote
(in article <eU9Nc90OIHA.2308@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>):
[color=blue]
> hielan' laddie wrote:[color=green]
>> On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:09:14 -0500, zachd [MSFT] wrote
>> (in article <#8WjU9TOIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>):
>>[color=darkred]
>>> "hielan' laddie" <bobbieburns@bobbybruce.co.uk.not> wrote in message
>>> news:0001HW.C37EBF3B00511DEEF01846D8@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>>>>> 1. Explorer crashes a couple times a week. Usually after selecting a
>>>>> file in an "Open File" dialog, but also sometimes just when starting
>>>>> explorer.
>>>> Explorer on Vista has been a major pain. The Vista desktop is, hands down,
>>>> the single most problematic part of Vista for me.
>>> What's problematic about it?[/color]
>>
>> Well, for example, there's what I mentioned further down but you snipped:
>>
>> "Do you have the 'black-screen-with-mouse-pointer' problem? Basically what
>> happens every ever so often (such as _right now_, which is why I'm typing
>> this on my Mac...) when I boot Vista I get perfectly normal behaviour all
>> the
>> way to the password entry screen. I enter my password, and get the
>> 'welcome'
>> screen with the spinning circle. That sits there for a while, as usual, and
>> then the screen goes black, again as usual... except that usually when it
>> does, it shows the mouse pointer and the spinning circle, and it almost
>> immediately starts loading the Vista desktop. About one third of the time,
>> instead of that, I just get the mouse pointer in a perfectly black screen.
>> There's disk activity. There's sound effects. Just nothing visible except
>> the
>> mouse pointer. Clicking, left or right, does _nothing_. Most of the time,
>> hitting control-alt-delete brings up the task manager and I can log out and
>> log back in... and this time everything is just fine. Sometimes
>> control-alt-delete does _nothing_, and the only cure is a power-switch
>> shutdown and reboot. If I'm in a hurry, it's faster to move to the Mac than
>> to fiddle with Vista..."
>>
>> That problem is Windows Explorer going tits-up on startup.
>>
>> In addition, there's this other common problem, which I mentioned a little
>> below that:
>>
>> "Every ever so often the Vista desktop crashes and I get a little note
>> about
>> a problem with the drivers. I have most current drivers installed. I tried
>> rolling back; things got worse. I have a NVIDI GeForce 6200 video card; not
>> exactly top of the line, to be sure, but still a fairly good card."
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>> If you're running into crashes, what is the
>>> fault data from the Problem Reports and Solutions center for those
>>> failures:[/color]
>>
>> The black screen on startup doesn't show as an error in the PRS. The
>> crashing
>> desktop shows as either Video Hardware Error or Could Not Find Driver
>> Software.
>>
>> Given that the same hardware worked fine with XP and works fine _most_ of
>> the
>> time with Vista, I suspect that there's more to it. The fact that the black
>> screen is not reported as an error makes me wonder what on Earth is going
>> on.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> [url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html#bucket[/url]
>>> ?
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>[/color]
> My guess is (if other things are working at the time) the video hardware
> is displaying but not on the right "Screen", e.g. you have 2 monitors
> but the display is on #3 - for want if a simple explanation. This would
> explain why there's no error message and it "thinks" everything's fine.[/color]

Nope. I only have one video card and one monitor.
[color=blue]
>
> It sounds like a hardware problem / driver problem or a memory (On the
> video card) problem. If you have say an NVidia based motherboard there
> are drivers for things like the PCI bus so check those for your MB maker
> since if PCI is not being driven properly then a PCI, PCIE or even maybe
> AGP device could be getting a valid but useless address...[/color]

It's an AGP card.
[color=blue]
>
> I am a long way from being a hardware expert but I have seen a few very
> odd "Random" effects over the years that eventually come down to some
> timing error between devices, and it not always video - video driver
> trouble, it could be something else - even the BIOS picking the wrong
> default video device.[/color]

The problem is that this _only_ happens in Vista. I have XP Home, XP Pro, and
the student version of Server 2003 in different partitions on the same
machine, and I used to have Ubuntu 5, and then Ubuntu 6 on that machine. They
never show this error or anything remotely like it. I really doubt that this
is a hardware problem. Especially as if I log out and log back in the problem
goes away.

Mike of Wrexham wrote:
[color=blue]
> UAC is such a PITA that it's permanently swiched off now - with UAC switched
> off Vista is no less secure than XP (which doesn't have UAC & I have 2 PCs,
> one with XP Home & one with Vista Home Premium).[/color]


I don't understand "with UAC switched off Vista is no less secure than XP"

the whole point of Vista (and its headaches) is that it is supposed to
be MORE secure. Are you saying taht with UAC switched off, it is not
/more/ secure than XP?

Denlyn;
(is that a nick name or your real name)

"perhaps the final release date wasn't enough time for all these
companies!"

That can and has been debated nearly forever.
Those same companies had the necessary information to start
development years before the release of Windows Vista.
How much is "enough time"?

During the Beta testers submitted hardware bugs and that information
was forwarded by Microsoft to the specific hardware manufacturer.
Additionally it was also suggested testers forward information
directly to the specific hardware manufacturer.
The manufacturers had specific information from users and Microsoft.
What they chose to do with that information is partially evident by
what hardware was ready for Windows Vista as well as when and if it
was available.

Some manufacturers started work immediately and some of those have
decent drivers now and some had them at the release of Windows Vista.

Many waited for the release of Windows Vista before starting so as not
to spend resources with the possibility of needing to change something
later.
they came out with drivers soon to several months later.

Still others waited to see how many of their customers had a need,
these may be coming available in the last few months.

Still others decided not to support their customers desires with their
products, these products are often useless in windows Vista.

The manufacturers already wait for the operating system, if Microsoft
then wait for the manufacturers, it is unlikely an operating system
would ever be released.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]



"Denlyn" <Denlyn.31mo7b@no-mx.forums.net> wrote in message
news:Denlyn.31mo7b@no-mx.forums.net...[color=blue]
>
> @ dzomlija..........
>
> Please do not get me wrong. As Vista is new, it will undoubtedly get
> better and I will eventually move over to Vista. My point being is
> that
> with Vista still in it's child form, it will grow into adulthood
> before
> anybody realises it.
>
> It is true that many forms of complaints have been forwarded to
> boards
> and forums such as this one and that the majority of people will
> always
> seek answers through Google first but shouldn't that tell Microsoft
> something?
>
> Especially when it comes to Microsoft asking for payment for
> assistance!
>
> Sending them an email always results with them leading to a resource
> site that usually doesn't give much information or confuses the
> consumer. Perhaps a fee should be allocated after they know Vista
> runs
> well without fault.
>
> All the faults that I have come across my system always falls back
> to
> drivers and I have fixed 99% of all my issues but I beg to difer
> when a
> new OS comes to hand and the makers of MB's, graphic cards, and
> thousands of other applications and drivers fail to meet the
> requirements of time frames. With Vista in the making for several
> years,
> perhaps the final release date wasn't enough time for all these
> companies!
>
> I do not care much for such tactics but if a company making video
> cards
> has orders that are outstanding for XP and new MB's, then they will
> not
> get involved with a new OS until their orders have been filled. With
> Vista being available to the public for twelve months, the rest of
> the
> world is playing catch up. Is the right tactic?
>
> With the Vista beta version being released to many testers, it
> wasn't
> long before Vista was released to the public and to use the buying
> public to continue with their tests so as they gain monies from it,
> is
> also wrong.
>
> All in all, Vista will be strong and powerful but definately not
> today.
> Windows server 2008 is a dream to operate even though the
> resemblance is
> that of XP but so very secure along with 99% of programs operating
> seamlessly within it.
>
> Why didn't Vista do the same?
>
> Enough is enough for today as this topic could go on for many more
> years but what will happen when Microsoft releases a future OS for
> the
> home user and it becomes another ME. So much so, lemons have
> happened
> for Microsft.
>
> Surf safe.
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> --
> Denlyn[/color]