MICHAEL wrote:[color=blue]
> Okay, Zach. Just understand that folks like my Mom and
> Dad or Hazel, my older neighbor across the street, don't
> typically have the abilities to hunt down one of the many
> things that can choke WMP. For folks like them, there should
> be an *easy* way to fix the problem... I'm not always home. ;-)
> Besides, many users just have themselves... no techy neighbor,
> or geeky son are at their disposal. Heck, most users don't even
> know how to get to these forums to ask for help.
>
> Well, we've done this already. Even though you won't/can't
> discuss why a media player is even considered a core component
> and has such a deep hook into the OS- well, we really do know why-
> anyway, thanks for your input and coming by to help folks here... really.
> It is much appreciated, even if I seem a bit agitated... it's not personal.
> It's really directed at Microsoft.
>
> It would be wonderful if you did put together a reinstall option.
>
> Please, tell your girlfriend they've done a wonderful job with that
> software. For anyone reading this, you should try it. You don't have
> to have a Zune to use the PC software. It works great at managing
> your music library and playing them, too. I still like the overall power
> of MediaMonkey better, but the Zune PC software is cool.
> [url]http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/zunesoftware/download.htm[/url]
>
> Take care, Zach.
>
>
> -Michael
>
> "zachd [MSFT]" <zachd@nomailplz.online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:#0sr7XzKIHA.2176@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>>
>> "MICHAEL" <u158627_emr2@dslr.net> wrote in message
>> news:%23RFlkHzKIHA.5360@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> Look, most folks don't want to track down the what, why and
>>> where- they just want it to work. If it's broke, they want it fixed
>>> and fixed now. They are not you and do not have the patience
>>> or knowledge to figure it all out.... they really shouldn't have to.[/color]
>>
>> Totally agreed. However, it's also my job to help figure out what's
>> wrong why and how.
>>
>> You're talking about band-aids, I'm talking about core solutions.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Regardless of your opinion about uninstall/reinstall for WMP11,
>>> *most* users would love to have that option- it's called pleasing
>>> the customer.[/color]
>>
>> Yes, and has been pointed out repeatedly, Windows isn't
>> architecturally designed for this at this time.
>>
>> As regards pleasing the customer, I've invested a lot of my own time
>> coming up with a solution.
>>
>> We're on the same net page overall. I'm just much more intensely
>> interested in the larger picture.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> The fact of the matter, Zach- many times, simply
>>> uninstalling and reinstalling an application *does* fix a problem.[/color]
>>
>> Right, but that's going to ignore why. Having spent a large chunk of
>> time lately fixing a top issue which definitely is only obscured by a
>> reinstall, you can't imagine my joy when I can track down the Whys of
>> issues. I don't expect this to be quick or simple - I must take a
>> long term patient approach or I'll never get anywhere. It's not like
>> I have access to these PCs - I need to sleuth my way forward.
>> Horribly painful work.
>>
>> Anyways, this gets back to what you said: people expect it to work.
>> If we Reinstall To Fix and ignore the corrupting factor (which in my
>> case right now would certainly be lost with a reinstall), we never
>> enable the system to Just Work - we just keep applying spackle until
>> it's a lumbering mess.
>>
>> Or-- I can bite the bullet, do the research over time to track down
>> the source, get that fixed, work on solutions, etc. That is long-term
>> goodness.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Much more so than spending days of back and forth with you in
>>> this forum.[/color]
>>
>> Right, definitely boring as heck. I consider the information I gather
>> generally worth the investment of my precious time. It's a
>> trade-off. You want me investing my extra Windows-centric time in
>> long-term solutions. I can give you short-term band-aids until the
>> cows come home, but the real value is always going to be in the
>> long-term solutions. Again, it's just the different valuation I need
>> to have. =)
>>[color=darkred]
>>> It's a heck of lot quicker and a much better alternative
>>> to suggestion you make at times to reinstall the operating system-
>>> now that's brute force.... and all because of a stupid media player.[/color]
>>
>> This isn't WMP's fault. As mentioned, it's a core system
>> architectural issue where it doesn't allow for subcomponent
>> reinstall. Any further niggling on pointing fingers is wrong and just
>> alienates the one guy who's working hard to solve it: it's a base
>> problem/limitation.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Why can't the bright minds on the WMP team come up with
>>> some sort of diagnostics like Office has?[/color]
>>
>> There's a bunch of diagnostics around. WMP definitely is a very
>> different beast than Office, relying upon a huge number of moving
>> parts that differ from system to system. WMP's Help:About:Technical
>> Support Information is a nice new tool in v11, but it's not like the
>> core team ever has time to be bored. ;-) DxDiag, etc - there
>> definitely is always a need for more fleshing out of the field, but
>> Office has a behemoth-sized team, the player team not so much.
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Have you seen the simple beauty of the new Zune PC software?[/color]
>>
>> Yep, my girlfriend works on that team. I've seen it and played with
>> it for a long while now. =)
>>[color=darkred]
>>> You guys really could learn from that. Did you contribute to that?[/color]
>>
>> I don't think I made any substantive contributions to v2. I certainly
>> recognized aspects of my work in v1. I'm a pretty scarce resource, so
>> in v1 I was politely banned late in the cycle from working for them,
>> simply because my time needed to be spent solely on WMP and Vista. I
>> provide assistance where I can - the relationship is generally
>> good/positive. Heck, I just watched their demos run by one of my
>> favorite partners (Terry) from my work on the player. =)
>>[color=darkred]
>>> If you do come up with some type of reinstall solution like
>>> you mentioned in your first paragraph, I will sing your praises
>>> from the rooftop.[/color]
>>
>> Thanks. I'm going to need time. For starters, "SatelliteTVforPC
>> 2006" corrupts WMP-Vista badly (they fixed this in their 2007 version)
>> - I should have a working virtual "WMP reinstallation" fix for that
>> tonight. The entire WMP system is of course much wider than that
>> (they're basically "only" breaking WMP.dll's registration, proxy
>> stubs, etc), but that's the first step and addresses a actual case
>> wherein ideally the subcomponent would be reinstalled.
>>
>> I would be very sad if people were randomly trying to "reinstall"
>> using my steps. It's just such a problem-solving cop-out to me, much
>> like saying "DIVX" to every AVI related issue. ;-)
>>
>> I want to find these issues. If you want Windows to "just work", you
>> need me or others to be able to find these issues. <3
>>
>> --
>> Speaking for myself only.
>> See [url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html[/url] for some helpful WMP info.
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>>[/color][/color]


Sort of on that subject, and I have not yet investigated Zune... I was
contemplating trying out some media stuff...

A friend has some videos we'd like to transfer to DVD. Last time the
company had some done for work it cost a fortune and this time there are
a few more of those (no copyright problem whatsoever) and a few we'd
just like to back up.

What a * nightmare :)

There are a couple of GUI Linux things, including a Nero that claim to
do this. The non Nero things plain don't work at all, the Linux Nero
thing claims to do DVDs and recognizes one when you put it in but then
treats it like a CD and claims it is out of space :)

Sooo,,, I know I thought, shove XP in a drive and use Movie Maker.

Well it can read from the video card alright, pictures, but have to wire
sound via the audio, but then after about a minute it slows down, misses
frames a dozen at a time and is generally worthless, so try the ATI
software that came with the card. That does work but saves a normal DVD
full as two separate files and I can't find an option to make lager than
4.7 GB so I think okay, load these files into MM and join them, edit
them and we make DVD from that. Nope, reads them in alright but this
time sound and no video, so threw that idea in the trash.

So anyway I have these things in two files and get out the Nero 6 and
Nero 7 that came bundled with the motherboards... and away we go, except
after an hour or more of "Converting" it crashes with an "Illegal memory
access" violation of some such nonsense.

Well I do have XP Media Center disk 2 but can I find disk 1? Nope, so I
figure back to Linux and try Linux MCE, BUT you really need to dedicate
a machine for server duty or else use a fast one, so I decide to go with
the fast one, bit of a waste but hey I can always put it back to normal
use later, so off to CompUSA to get a Hauppage card and try that, of
course I pick one not compatible with Linux lists but hope for the best
because it was the only choice, at least it certified for Vista :- Yay.

So with almost $200 in cards and cables I put card in new PC and boot it
with present Ubuntu disk (Removable drive). Pfft, nothing, beep beep beep.

Okay, insert Ubuntu CD, reinstall. Do you want to use NVidia drivers,
yes, Pfft, beep beep beep.

So consult LinuxMCE docs, it says get Xubuntu 7.04, so I download it,
install that, burn the MCE disks and start install...

Install Xubuntu, do you want the Nvidia drivers, yes Pfft, beep beep
beep. Install again, do you want the Nvidia driver, Christ no, ok...
Welcome to Xubuntu with no GFX acceleration. Insert MCE disk 1, load the
installer, run the installer, Pffft, beep black screen.

Well I didn't much fancy trying Myth since the problem seemed to be that
card + Ubuntu, and XP MM wasn't any good either so I figured try
Vista32, expect nothing and hope for the best.

Hell of a long install time but amazingly installed with no problems,
drivers all went without a problem and it asked for about 40 updates (40
already, has it been that long) and then suggested the NVidia driver...
so I let the NVidia site find the driver, amazingly quick download and
ran perfectly right away.

Of course I don't have a TV antenna cable hooked up so I couldn't set it
up but so far so good and at least with this machine (All new parts
again) Vista has been a total success story... of course you'd know that
being the last thing I tried.

So I am now copying files and only 9 hours 58 minutes to go :)

I am optimistic that this install of Vista is good though, it is MUCH
faster than previous ones and the CPU is not much faster, 4.8 instead of
4.2, and the MB is next release, so we shall see.

BUT, if anyone at work so much as mentions VCR or DVD I shall likely be
arrested for causing some sort of physical harm :)

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:OvMDyP0KIHA.6108@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Sort of on that subject, and I have not yet investigated Zune... I was contemplating trying
> out some media stuff...
>
> A friend has some videos we'd like to transfer to DVD. Last time the company had some done
> for work it cost a fortune and this time there are a few more of those (no copyright problem
> whatsoever) and a few we'd just like to back up.
>
> What a * nightmare :)
>
> There are a couple of GUI Linux things, including a Nero that claim to do this. The non Nero
> things plain don't work at all, the Linux Nero thing claims to do DVDs and recognizes one
> when you put it in but then treats it like a CD and claims it is out of space :)
>
> Sooo,,, I know I thought, shove XP in a drive and use Movie Maker.
>
> Well it can read from the video card alright, pictures, but have to wire sound via the audio,
> but then after about a minute it slows down, misses frames a dozen at a time and is generally
> worthless, so try the ATI software that came with the card. That does work but saves a normal
> DVD full as two separate files and I can't find an option to make lager than 4.7 GB so I
> think okay, load these files into MM and join them, edit them and we make DVD from that.
> Nope, reads them in alright but this time sound and no video, so threw that idea in the
> trash.
>
> So anyway I have these things in two files and get out the Nero 6 and Nero 7 that came
> bundled with the motherboards... and away we go, except after an hour or more of "Converting"
> it crashes with an "Illegal memory access" violation of some such nonsense.
>
> Well I do have XP Media Center disk 2 but can I find disk 1? Nope, so I figure back to Linux
> and try Linux MCE, BUT you really need to dedicate a machine for server duty or else use a
> fast one, so I decide to go with the fast one, bit of a waste but hey I can always put it
> back to normal use later, so off to CompUSA to get a Hauppage card and try that, of course I
> pick one not compatible with Linux lists but hope for the best because it was the only
> choice, at least it certified for Vista :- Yay.
>
> So with almost $200 in cards and cables I put card in new PC and boot it with present Ubuntu
> disk (Removable drive). Pfft, nothing, beep beep beep.
>
> Okay, insert Ubuntu CD, reinstall. Do you want to use NVidia drivers, yes, Pfft, beep beep
> beep.
>
> So consult LinuxMCE docs, it says get Xubuntu 7.04, so I download it, install that, burn the
> MCE disks and start install...
>
> Install Xubuntu, do you want the Nvidia drivers, yes Pfft, beep beep beep. Install again, do
> you want the Nvidia driver, Christ no, ok... Welcome to Xubuntu with no GFX acceleration.
> Insert MCE disk 1, load the installer, run the installer, Pffft, beep black screen.
>
> Well I didn't much fancy trying Myth since the problem seemed to be that card + Ubuntu, and
> XP MM wasn't any good either so I figured try Vista32, expect nothing and hope for the best.
>
> Hell of a long install time but amazingly installed with no problems, drivers all went
> without a problem and it asked for about 40 updates (40 already, has it been that long) and
> then suggested the NVidia driver... so I let the NVidia site find the driver, amazingly quick
> download and ran perfectly right away.
>
> Of course I don't have a TV antenna cable hooked up so I couldn't set it up but so far so
> good and at least with this machine (All new parts again) Vista has been a total success
> story... of course you'd know that being the last thing I tried.
>
> So I am now copying files and only 9 hours 58 minutes to go :)
>
> I am optimistic that this install of Vista is good though, it is MUCH faster than previous
> ones and the CPU is not much faster, 4.8 instead of 4.2, and the MB is next release, so we
> shall see.
>
> BUT, if anyone at work so much as mentions VCR or DVD I shall likely be arrested for causing
> some sort of physical harm :)[/color]

That's some ordeal you went through..... the things we do for friends. :-)

Although, there are times when a family member or friend has gotten
me involved with some computer or technology issue, it becomes
a mission and I actually enjoy it more than I let on. Especially, once the
issue has been fixed and they are happy. I try not to let them know I
might enjoy the challenge too much.... or the phone doesn't stop ringing. ;-)
Even more so since Vista came out, and computers are actually not what
I do for a living. But, that's okay. It all comes around. I have a neighbor
who has helped me numerous times when working on my 1987 Bronco,
and I've helped him. That Bronco was the very first automobile I bought
on my own, and I still have it. Don't drive it much, but it's special to me.


-Michael

MICHAEL wrote:[color=blue]
> "Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
> news:OvMDyP0KIHA.6108@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> Sort of on that subject, and I have not yet investigated Zune... I was
>> contemplating trying out some media stuff...
>>
>> A friend has some videos we'd like to transfer to DVD. Last time the
>> company had some done for work it cost a fortune and this time there
>> are a few more of those (no copyright problem whatsoever) and a few
>> we'd just like to back up.
>>
>> What a * nightmare :)
>>
>> There are a couple of GUI Linux things, including a Nero that claim to
>> do this. The non Nero things plain don't work at all, the Linux Nero
>> thing claims to do DVDs and recognizes one when you put it in but then
>> treats it like a CD and claims it is out of space :)
>>
>> Sooo,,, I know I thought, shove XP in a drive and use Movie Maker.
>>
>> Well it can read from the video card alright, pictures, but have to
>> wire sound via the audio, but then after about a minute it slows down,
>> misses frames a dozen at a time and is generally worthless, so try the
>> ATI software that came with the card. That does work but saves a
>> normal DVD full as two separate files and I can't find an option to
>> make lager than 4.7 GB so I think okay, load these files into MM and
>> join them, edit them and we make DVD from that. Nope, reads them in
>> alright but this time sound and no video, so threw that idea in the
>> trash.
>>
>> So anyway I have these things in two files and get out the Nero 6 and
>> Nero 7 that came bundled with the motherboards... and away we go,
>> except after an hour or more of "Converting" it crashes with an
>> "Illegal memory access" violation of some such nonsense.
>>
>> Well I do have XP Media Center disk 2 but can I find disk 1? Nope, so
>> I figure back to Linux and try Linux MCE, BUT you really need to
>> dedicate a machine for server duty or else use a fast one, so I decide
>> to go with the fast one, bit of a waste but hey I can always put it
>> back to normal use later, so off to CompUSA to get a Hauppage card and
>> try that, of course I pick one not compatible with Linux lists but
>> hope for the best because it was the only choice, at least it
>> certified for Vista :- Yay.
>>
>> So with almost $200 in cards and cables I put card in new PC and boot
>> it with present Ubuntu disk (Removable drive). Pfft, nothing, beep
>> beep beep.
>>
>> Okay, insert Ubuntu CD, reinstall. Do you want to use NVidia drivers,
>> yes, Pfft, beep beep beep.
>>
>> So consult LinuxMCE docs, it says get Xubuntu 7.04, so I download it,
>> install that, burn the MCE disks and start install...
>>
>> Install Xubuntu, do you want the Nvidia drivers, yes Pfft, beep beep
>> beep. Install again, do you want the Nvidia driver, Christ no, ok...
>> Welcome to Xubuntu with no GFX acceleration. Insert MCE disk 1, load
>> the installer, run the installer, Pffft, beep black screen.
>>
>> Well I didn't much fancy trying Myth since the problem seemed to be
>> that card + Ubuntu, and XP MM wasn't any good either so I figured try
>> Vista32, expect nothing and hope for the best.
>>
>> Hell of a long install time but amazingly installed with no problems,
>> drivers all went without a problem and it asked for about 40 updates
>> (40 already, has it been that long) and then suggested the NVidia
>> driver... so I let the NVidia site find the driver, amazingly quick
>> download and ran perfectly right away.
>>
>> Of course I don't have a TV antenna cable hooked up so I couldn't set
>> it up but so far so good and at least with this machine (All new parts
>> again) Vista has been a total success story... of course you'd know
>> that being the last thing I tried.
>>
>> So I am now copying files and only 9 hours 58 minutes to go :)
>>
>> I am optimistic that this install of Vista is good though, it is MUCH
>> faster than previous ones and the CPU is not much faster, 4.8 instead
>> of 4.2, and the MB is next release, so we shall see.
>>
>> BUT, if anyone at work so much as mentions VCR or DVD I shall likely
>> be arrested for causing some sort of physical harm :)[/color]
>
> That's some ordeal you went through..... the things we do for friends. :-)
>
> Although, there are times when a family member or friend has gotten
> me involved with some computer or technology issue, it becomes
> a mission and I actually enjoy it more than I let on. Especially, once the
> issue has been fixed and they are happy. I try not to let them know I
> might enjoy the challenge too much.... or the phone doesn't stop
> ringing. ;-)
> Even more so since Vista came out, and computers are actually not what
> I do for a living. But, that's okay. It all comes around. I have a
> neighbor
> who has helped me numerous times when working on my 1987 Bronco,
> and I've helped him. That Bronco was the very first automobile I bought
> on my own, and I still have it. Don't drive it much, but it's special
> to me.
>
>
> -Michael[/color]


Well if you are still following I set up cable TV connection and
everything worked just fine except no sound on live TV, but everything
else with Vista Media Center worked fine and Vista Movie Maker fixed the
files that XP Movie Maker refused to do, and of course it was pretty
quick being a fast machine.

So I looked on the Hauppage website and there's an updated driver so
tried that and again it worked perfectly, so now TV has sound, the
remote works as advertised and at this moment all is pretty good.

I've never had that trouble with XP Movie Maker before and the DVD
burning problem seems odd so I am going to play around a bit more with
things, however so far it looks like Vista has managed to get further
than anything else :)

But what's even more ironic was after all the ****ed hassle to try and
get these tapes from work (Lecture / training type stuff) copied, which
are fairly short, I chose to test this on a full length movie that just
happened to be the first long video I grabbed, which means now I broke
the law since it is a copyright work :) I didn't look to see what it was
and what's even worse it it's one I hate :)

I looked here for an answer for this problem
Wow! you guy's lost me in that one and I'll bet the original post also!!
Are there a step by step solution to this problem? ( Please just one )


"Charlie Tame" wrote:
[color=blue]
> zachd [MSFT] wrote:[color=green]
> > If he really needs to do something that along, which sounds like the totally
> > wrong solution to the problem, I did spend a lot of my time coming up with a
> > solution that allows for something like that. I'm finalizing another
> > project first though (I'll probably post beta details later tonight).
> >
> > Generally that's pretty much a flailing approach to trouble-shooting,
> > though. If you write the playback graph, the suspect component right now
> > falls outside of the player component boundary.
> >
> > I've been fighting this "reinstall as a solution" idea for years now, but I
> > don't suspect people are ever predisposed to really listen. Brute force
> > ('did you kick it yet?', 'have you tried turning it off and on?', 'did you
> > uninstall/reinstall?') will always be a popular solution no matter the
> > problem. =)
> >
> > So if you like problems being identified (so that Vista becomes more stable
> > over time), it's good to avoid brute force solutions. If there really is
> > failing component, what is failing and why? That's the really great data to
> > gather, and the brute force reinstall method sacrifices all that interesting
> > data in the name of a quick fix. We all love quick fixes, though, so I
> > understand. =)
> >[/color]
>
>
> The other problem with quick fixes is that once found and publicized
> people will keep using them, so if the problem is really due to some
> config or hardware problem that only occurs when two apparently
> unconnected events happen together then a solution never gets found,
> instead you have 1000 users who all "Reset something" once a week :)
>
> Seen enough things like electrical "Transients" in my time to know that
> this can also happen "Out of the blue" and so on those occasions the
> quick fix is appropriate.
>
> Trouble is you don't know which it is the "First" time :)
>[/color]

[url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html#codecs[/url]
covers this.

1: play content in wmp
2: be sad as no video shows up
3: right-click on content in wmp's playlist, select error details
4: click Web Help
5: view codec name of needed codec there
6: get it via "get the codec" link there

--
Speaking for myself only.
See [url]http://zachd.com/pss/pss.html[/url] for some helpful WMP info.
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
--
"Curt" <Curt@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:030D46FC-094D-4AE5-9B11-0A88166CA536@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>I looked here for an answer for this problem
> Wow! you guy's lost me in that one and I'll bet the original post also!!
> Are there a step by step solution to this problem? ( Please just one )
>
>
> "Charlie Tame" wrote:
>[color=green]
>> zachd [MSFT] wrote:[color=darkred]
>> > If he really needs to do something that along, which sounds like the
>> > totally
>> > wrong solution to the problem, I did spend a lot of my time coming up
>> > with a
>> > solution that allows for something like that. I'm finalizing another
>> > project first though (I'll probably post beta details later tonight).
>> >
>> > Generally that's pretty much a flailing approach to trouble-shooting,
>> > though. If you write the playback graph, the suspect component right
>> > now
>> > falls outside of the player component boundary.
>> >
>> > I've been fighting this "reinstall as a solution" idea for years now,
>> > but I
>> > don't suspect people are ever predisposed to really listen. Brute
>> > force
>> > ('did you kick it yet?', 'have you tried turning it off and on?', 'did
>> > you
>> > uninstall/reinstall?') will always be a popular solution no matter the
>> > problem. =)
>> >
>> > So if you like problems being identified (so that Vista becomes more
>> > stable
>> > over time), it's good to avoid brute force solutions. If there really
>> > is
>> > failing component, what is failing and why? That's the really great
>> > data to
>> > gather, and the brute force reinstall method sacrifices all that
>> > interesting
>> > data in the name of a quick fix. We all love quick fixes, though, so I
>> > understand. =)
>> >[/color]
>>
>>
>> The other problem with quick fixes is that once found and publicized
>> people will keep using them, so if the problem is really due to some
>> config or hardware problem that only occurs when two apparently
>> unconnected events happen together then a solution never gets found,
>> instead you have 1000 users who all "Reset something" once a week :)
>>
>> Seen enough things like electrical "Transients" in my time to know that
>> this can also happen "Out of the blue" and so on those occasions the
>> quick fix is appropriate.
>>
>> Trouble is you don't know which it is the "First" time :)
>>[/color][/color]

"Nicholas Hall" wrote:
[color=blue]
> I do not know what has happened but when I try to play an AVI file in
> windows media player I get sound but no picture. The first time I noticed
> this is when I went to a BBC (UK website) and tried to watch an online
> program. The program started and I heard sound,... but there was no picture.
>
> When I tried to open a local file the same thing happened. If I open the
> file in the new (BETA) real player it (the file) plays alright.
>
> I have got the latest divx player installed (6.7).
>
> I wondered if anyone could help me out with this problem>
>
> NIK
>
>[/color]