WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm. Do
you think that might be an opening for Linux?

Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the problems
with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything else. The
desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and while a
Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages of that
inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can work
against them.

So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything" mentality
just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there yet, but the
whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a commodity, not a
"bells and whistles" kind of thing.

And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although not
in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I do
think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean that the
things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.

----

I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows which
is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription route, you
install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay for it or just
stick with what you have and it just works, more like an essential service.
Just my thoughts.
--
Andre
Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:[color=blue]
> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm. Do
> you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>
> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the problems
> with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything else. The
> desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and while a
> Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages of that
> inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can work
> against them.
>
> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything" mentality
> just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there yet, but the
> whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a commodity, not a
> "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>
> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although not
> in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I do
> think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean that the
> things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>
> ----
>
> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows which
> is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription route, you
> install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay for it or just
> stick with what you have and it just works, more like an essential service.
> Just my thoughts.[/color]


Yes...LT will no longer kiss RS's hairy fat arse.
Good for him.
It's called the "awful truth".
Frank

The point of this post is to prove that even the author of the Linux kernel
can show Microsoft respect, even though he does not use the Company's
products, so can you. He is not in Microsoft forums or newsgroups screaming
at the top of his lungs, ditch Vista. It also shows that people have a big
misunderstanding of the philosophy of Open Source and how it is really
marketed.

Steve Jobs did a similar thing to his own following at Macworld 97.
--
Andre
Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
"Frank" <fb@spamm.nrz> wrote in message
news:uR21qa4EIHA.5732@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:[color=green]
>> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm.
>> Do you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>>
>> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the
>> problems with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything
>> else. The desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and
>> while a Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages
>> of that inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can
>> work against them.
>>
>> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
>> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything"
>> mentality just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there
>> yet, but the whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a
>> commodity, not a "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>>
>> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although
>> not in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I
>> do think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean
>> that the things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows
>> which is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription
>> route, you install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay
>> for it or just stick with what you have and it just works, more like an
>> essential service. Just my thoughts.[/color]
>
>
> Yes...LT will no longer kiss RS's hairy fat arse.
> Good for him.
> It's called the "awful truth".
> Frank[/color]

My take is that the core OS will become a small compact virtual server. The
applications will include a runtime OS that provides the functions the
application needs. Each application will run in it`s own virtual machine
totally independent from the other applications. The core OS will be like a
super BIOS allowing the virtual machines to run and communicate with each
other and not much else.

--
Kerry Brown
Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
[url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]


"Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" <andred25********.com> wrote in message
news:%23P$nMu3EIHA.5752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm.
> Do you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>
> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the problems
> with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything else. The
> desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and while a
> Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages of that
> inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can work
> against them.
>
> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything"
> mentality just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there
> yet, but the whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a
> commodity, not a "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>
> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although
> not in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I
> do think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean
> that the things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>
> ----
>
> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows
> which is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription
> route, you install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay
> for it or just stick with what you have and it just works, more like an
> essential service. Just my thoughts.
> --
> Andre
> Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
> My Vista Quickstart Guide:
> [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
>
>[/color]

Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:[color=blue]
> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm. Do
> you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>
> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the problems
> with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything else. The
> desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and while a
> Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages of that
> inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can work
> against them.
>
> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything" mentality
> just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there yet, but the
> whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a commodity, not a
> "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>
> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although not
> in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I do
> think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean that the
> things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>
> ----
>
> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows which
> is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription route, you
> install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay for it or just
> stick with what you have and it just works, more like an essential service.
> Just my thoughts.[/color]


For the foreseeable future the market will slow down (in the countries
where people have computers, in the third world it depends on economic
development in general.

The average user can now record and play sound, buy music, make videos,
buy films and many things which were never expected from computers 20
years ago. He can make phone calls, write complete books and do just
about everything he needs.

The computer, laptop or desktop has physical limitations, is an Iphone a
phone or a computer, or both, so for "Computing" purposes only the
physical device has reached a slowdown point, and only upgrades are left
for many people. Most people do not "Need" two, and the used one may
well end up on another desk so sales can only be stimulated by something
completely new that is a "Must Have" for the desktop.

Yes folks will want faster, but frankly in the last year or two they
haven't become that much faster, and the silicon technology has known
limits so they won't.

In any case if you get a faster machine XP will go faster, and franky XP
does all the above, there is not much functionality left for a new OS to
add, expecially if things that once worked no longer will.

The OS is no longer going to be a huge seller, it will be what runs on
it that becomes important, and it is no use trying to "Foist" a new OS
on people who are simply going to ask "What do I get that I don't
already have"?

I don't see how you reached your conclusion from
the excerpt that you posted. It seems to be saying
that the new rebuild of Vista is superfluous because
the product was already mature.
[color=blue]
> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm.[/color]
Do[color=blue]
> you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>
> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the problems
> with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything else. The
> desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and while a
> Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages of that
> inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can work
> against them.
>
> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything"[/color]
mentality[color=blue]
> just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there yet, but[/color]
the[color=blue]
> whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a commodity, not a
> "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>
> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although[/color]
not[color=blue]
> in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I do
> think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean that[/color]
the[color=blue]
> things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>
> ----
>
> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows[/color]
which[color=blue]
> is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription route, you
> install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay for it or[/color]
just[color=blue]
> stick with what you have and it just works, more like an essential[/color]
service.[color=blue]
> Just my thoughts.
> --
> Andre
> Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
> My Vista Quickstart Guide:
> [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
>
>[/color]

I agree, Microsoft is doing some of this already with their Soft Grid
application streaming solution. I saw this cool demo with 4 different
versions of Microsoft Word running on the same computer without any registry
conflicts. When you think about how powerful personal computers will become
in the future though, it shouldn't be much of an issue to include legacy
versions of the Windows kernels in the OS to run legacy applications to
provide superior compatibility. The problem really is just securing it, but
then again, thats the great thing about virtualization. :)
--
Andre
Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:F4B2EA6A-81E5-4697-AA54-217D70E9BE69@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> My take is that the core OS will become a small compact virtual server.
> The applications will include a runtime OS that provides the functions the
> application needs. Each application will run in it`s own virtual machine
> totally independent from the other applications. The core OS will be like
> a super BIOS allowing the virtual machines to run and communicate with
> each other and not much else.
>
> --
> Kerry Brown
> Microsoft MVP - Shell/User
> [url]http://www.vistahelp.ca[/url]
>
>
> "Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin]" <andred25********.com> wrote in message
> news:%23P$nMu3EIHA.5752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm.
>> Do you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>>
>> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the
>> problems with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything
>> else. The desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and
>> while a Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages
>> of that inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can
>> work against them.
>>
>> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
>> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything"
>> mentality just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there
>> yet, but the whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a
>> commodity, not a "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>>
>> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although
>> not in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I
>> do think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean
>> that the things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows
>> which is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription
>> route, you install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay
>> for it or just stick with what you have and it just works, more like an
>> essential service. Just my thoughts.
>> --
>> Andre
>> Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
>> My Vista Quickstart Guide:
>> [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:04:07 -0700, Frank <fb@spamm.nrz> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Yes...LT will no longer kiss RS's hairy fat arse.
>Good for him.
>It's called the "awful truth".[/color]

The awful truth is you're just a useless troll that also happens to be
a pathological liar that's afraid to tell us the name of his company
he keeps bragging he owns out of fear he'll be laughed at even more.

Frank, I doubt that's possible. You are already not just at the bottom
of the barrel, you are underneath the slime under the barrel.

Why not get it over with and just admit you were just full of crap
about this "company" of yours.

On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:32:57 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
<kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
[color=blue]
>My take is that the core OS will become a small compact virtual server. The
>applications will include a runtime OS that provides the functions the
>application needs. Each application will run in it`s own virtual machine
>totally independent from the other applications. The core OS will be like a
>super BIOS allowing the virtual machines to run and communicate with each
>other and not much else.[/color]

Yea, the Windows version will still give you BSOD's, spy on the user,
have a even worse version of DRM, and still won't be able to copy
files faster than at a snail's pace and it will of course requires a
service pack before it works right.

Adam Albright wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:32:57 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
> <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> My take is that the core OS will become a small compact virtual server. The
>> applications will include a runtime OS that provides the functions the
>> application needs. Each application will run in it`s own virtual machine
>> totally independent from the other applications. The core OS will be like a
>> super BIOS allowing the virtual machines to run and communicate with each
>> other and not much else.[/color]
>
> Yea, the Windows version will still give you BSOD's, spy on the user,
> have a even worse version of DRM, and still won't be able to copy
> files faster than at a snail's pace and it will of course requires a
> service pack before it works right.
>[/color]


Do I detect a note of cynicism Adam?

Adam Albright wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:04:07 -0700, Frank <fb@spamm.nrz> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Yes...LT will no longer kiss RS's hairy fat arse.
>> Good for him.
>> It's called the "awful truth".[/color]
>
> The awful truth is you're just a useless troll that also happens to be
> a pathological liar that's afraid to tell us the name of his company
> he keeps bragging he owns out of fear he'll be laughed at even more.
>
> Frank, I doubt that's possible. You are already not just at the bottom
> of the barrel, you are underneath the slime under the barrel.
>
> Why not get it over with and just admit you were just full of crap
> about this "company" of yours.
>
>[/color]

<Mosses? Mosses? MOOOOOOSSES? What of Albright? What of Albright? You
should toss a rock in the river so you can scatter the mud and see your
reflection.>

Adam wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:04:07 -0700, Frank <fb@spamm.nrz> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Yes...LT will no longer kiss RS's hairy fat arse.
>>Good for him.
>>It's called the "awful truth".[/color]
>
>
> The awful truth is you're just a useless troll that also happens to be
> a pathological liar that's afraid to tell us the name of his company
> he keeps bragging he owns out of fear he'll be laughed at even more.[/color]

The awful truth is that you're afraid to use your real name and for all
we know you're confined (hopefully!) to some mental institution for the
rest of your pathetic life.
Why not tell us where they have you behind bars including your real name
and we'll send cards...well maybe..actually most all of us would breathe
a sigh of relief know you're in some kind of custody.
Frank

Adam Albright wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:32:57 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
> <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>My take is that the core OS will become a small compact virtual server. The
>>applications will include a runtime OS that provides the functions the
>>application needs. Each application will run in it`s own virtual machine
>>totally independent from the other applications. The core OS will be like a
>>super BIOS allowing the virtual machines to run and communicate with each
>>other and not much else.[/color]
>
>
> Yea, the Windows version will still give you BSOD's, spy on the user,
> have a even worse version of DRM, and still won't be able to copy
> files faster than at a snail's pace and it will of course requires a
> service pack before it works right.
>[/color]

Only for those idiot fools like you adam (or whatever you're calling
yourself today) who are incompetent computer users.
Frank

I think there are key areas in operating systems left to be solved, such as
touch, speech and natural hand writing recognition. Also, interacting with
your computer needs to be more natural. Vista's new speech recognition
engine is really cool though so there is indeed some potential.
--
Andre
Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:eg9r944EIHA.4712@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Andre Da Costa[ActiveWin] wrote:[color=green]
>> WSJ: [Microsoft's Windows] Vista hasn't exactly taken the world by storm.
>> Do you think that might be an opening for Linux?
>>
>> Mr. Torvalds: I suspect Vista is doing well enough -- I think the
>> problems with it are more indicative of the maturing market than anything
>> else. The desktop market in general simply has a very high inertia, and
>> while a Microsoft update obviously ends up having a lot of the advantages
>> of that inertia, I think Microsoft is also noticing that the inertia can
>> work against them.
>>
>> So I don't think Vista will "fail" or anything like that. But if I was
>> Microsoft, I'd realize that this whole "let's redesign everything"
>> mentality just doesn't work in a maturing market. And we may not be there
>> yet, but the whole operating system thing is definitely turning into a
>> commodity, not a "bells and whistles" kind of thing.
>>
>> And yes, I do actually think that that is an opening for Linux, although
>> not in the way you meant: I don't think Vista per se matters much, but I
>> do think that the maturity and commoditization of the market does mean
>> that the things Linux does so well actually end up mattering more.
>>
>> ----
>>
>> I actually agree, in the future I think Operating Systems like Windows
>> which is a reliable, mature product will simply go by a subscription
>> route, you install it, if you want additional functionality you can pay
>> for it or just stick with what you have and it just works, more like an
>> essential service. Just my thoughts.[/color]
>
>
> For the foreseeable future the market will slow down (in the countries
> where people have computers, in the third world it depends on economic
> development in general.
>
> The average user can now record and play sound, buy music, make videos,
> buy films and many things which were never expected from computers 20
> years ago. He can make phone calls, write complete books and do just about
> everything he needs.
>
> The computer, laptop or desktop has physical limitations, is an Iphone a
> phone or a computer, or both, so for "Computing" purposes only the
> physical device has reached a slowdown point, and only upgrades are left
> for many people. Most people do not "Need" two, and the used one may well
> end up on another desk so sales can only be stimulated by something
> completely new that is a "Must Have" for the desktop.
>
> Yes folks will want faster, but frankly in the last year or two they
> haven't become that much faster, and the silicon technology has known
> limits so they won't.
>
> In any case if you get a faster machine XP will go faster, and franky XP
> does all the above, there is not much functionality left for a new OS to
> add, expecially if things that once worked no longer will.
>
> The OS is no longer going to be a huge seller, it will be what runs on it
> that becomes important, and it is no use trying to "Foist" a new OS on
> people who are simply going to ask "What do I get that I don't already
> have"?
>[/color]

The recent performance updates for Windows Vista improves file and copy task
significantly:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!16316.entry[/url]
--
Andre
Blog: [url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com[/url]
My Vista Quickstart Guide:
[url]http://adacosta.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!E8E5CC039D51E3DB!9709.entry[/url]
"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:ntglh3tndpq79h4lk4n0dlsgln4v21s1n5@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:32:57 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
> <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>My take is that the core OS will become a small compact virtual server.
>>The
>>applications will include a runtime OS that provides the functions the
>>application needs. Each application will run in it`s own virtual machine
>>totally independent from the other applications. The core OS will be like
>>a
>>super BIOS allowing the virtual machines to run and communicate with each
>>other and not much else.[/color]
>
> Yea, the Windows version will still give you BSOD's, spy on the user,
> have a even worse version of DRM, and still won't be able to copy
> files faster than at a snail's pace and it will of course requires a
> service pack before it works right.
>[/color]