we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating system.did
any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or did
you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating system.

when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off of
the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try and
make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things are
still not working and there are more updates to come and even service packs.

to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full reinstall,like
i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the service
packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they knew
what was in this box that they sold the public.

what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that box,on
that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i paid
for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...

"wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
> system.did
> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
> did
> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
> system.
>
> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
> of
> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
> and
> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
> are
> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
> packs.
>
> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
> reinstall,like
> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the service
> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
> knew
> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>
> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that box,on
> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
> paid
> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...


get back in the road and wait for that big red truck.
my lawyer is working on a case against people who use all small letters.
you should try linux because vista is way to complex for you and your mother
should limit your time on the computer

"wheelman" posted his rant [again]
> < chop >


Perhaps if you just posted some of the issues you are having, someone(s)
might help you find a solution? Anyway, best wishes, bye.

Saucy

If you are having a problem with Windows Vista, you need to
clearly define and state specifically what the problem is in order
for someone to offer any intelligent troubleshooting advice.

Read the following for posting guidance:

How to ask a question:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

---------------------------------------------------------------

"wheelman" babbled:

we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating system.did
any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or did
you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating system.

when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off of
the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try and
make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things are
still not working and there are more updates to come and even service packs.

to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full reinstall,like
i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the service
packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they knew
what was in this box that they sold the public.

what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that box,on
that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i paid
for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...

I do not blame bill gates for all this mess. I think gates is a genius, and
he is there is no doubt about it.

I believe his lack of interest and focus on vista, led it to go the the
hands of amateurs who don't know what the heck they are doing

This has happened to many big corps when the "founder" retires, loses
interest or dies.

Look at what happened to Disney....

Oh wait.. I forget that most vistaboys are ignorant of their own culture let
alone those of other countries...

like who was that vistaboy who was making fun of people from aftica? What a
pack of losers you are.


"wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
> system.did
> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
> did
> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
> system.
>
> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
> of
> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
> and
> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
> are
> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
> packs.
>
> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
> reinstall,like
> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the service
> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
> knew
> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>
> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that box,on
> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
> paid
> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message
news:47041aa2$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>What a pack of losers you are.

I don't think you can make comments like that can you, you little retard.
BTW, where's aftica?

"Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message
news:47041aa2$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>I do not blame bill gates for all this mess. I think gates is a genius, and
>he is there is no doubt about it.
>
You don't know squat about Bill Gates. He makes more in a second then you
will make in your lifetime.


> I believe his lack of interest and focus on vista, led it to go the the
> hands of amateurs who don't know what the heck they are doing
>
How can you believe when you have NO BRAIN?


> This has happened to many big corps when the "founder" retires, loses
> interest or dies.

Like you would know.
>
> Look at what happened to Disney....

Yes, Disney and Goofey and Bambi, all lived together. BFD.

>
> Oh wait.. I forget that most vistaboys are ignorant of their own culture
> let alone those of other countries...


>
> like who was that vistaboy who was making fun of people from aftica? What
> a pack of losers you are.
>
>
> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
>> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
>> system.did
>> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
>> did
>> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
>> system.
>>
>> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
>> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
>> of
>> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
>> and
>> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
>> are
>> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
>> packs.
>>
>> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
>> reinstall,like
>> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the
>> service
>> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
>> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
>> knew
>> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>>
>> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
>> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that
>> box,on
>> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
>> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
>> paid
>> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...
>
>

we know who you are FYI



the usual troll .. go away!

"Tyrone Banks" <tyrone@banks.com> wrote in message
news:O8LAfthBIHA.5652@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message
> news:47041aa2$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>>I do not blame bill gates for all this mess. I think gates is a genius,
>>and he is there is no doubt about it.
>>
> You don't know squat about Bill Gates. He makes more in a second then you
> will make in your lifetime.
>
>
>> I believe his lack of interest and focus on vista, led it to go the the
>> hands of amateurs who don't know what the heck they are doing
>>
> How can you believe when you have NO BRAIN?
>
>
>> This has happened to many big corps when the "founder" retires, loses
>> interest or dies.
>
> Like you would know.
>>
>> Look at what happened to Disney....
>
> Yes, Disney and Goofey and Bambi, all lived together. BFD.
>
>>
>> Oh wait.. I forget that most vistaboys are ignorant of their own culture
>> let alone those of other countries...
>
>
>>
>> like who was that vistaboy who was making fun of people from aftica?
>> What a pack of losers you are.
>>
>>
>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
>>> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
>>> system.did
>>> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete
>>> product..or did
>>> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
>>> system.
>>>
>>> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
>>> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os
>>> off of
>>> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
>>> and
>>> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
>>> are
>>> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
>>> packs.
>>>
>>> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
>>> reinstall,like
>>> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the
>>> service
>>> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they
>>> bought
>>> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
>>> knew
>>> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>>>
>>> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
>>> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that
>>> box,on
>>> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
>>> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
>>> paid
>>> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...
>>
>>
>

Time To Reformat Your Computer And Install Open Source Linux Ubuntu 7.04 RTW
Or 7.10 Official Beta, Just FYI.

"wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
> system.did
> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
> did
> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
> system.
>
> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
> of
> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
> and
> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
> are
> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
> packs.
>
> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
> reinstall,like
> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the service
> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
> knew
> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>
> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that box,on
> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
> paid
> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...

"Dave" <donotreply@thisfakeaddress.com> wrote in message
news:%23TpHsohBIHA.4160@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> "Tibery-OS" <Tib@OS.com> wrote in message
> news:47041aa2$1@newsgate.x-privat.org...
>>What a pack of losers you are.
>
> I don't think you can make comments like that can you, you little retard.
> BTW, where's aftica?
What are you saying? Of course he can make comments like that. He DID.

Just FYI.

Puh! Don't give us/me this, Ubuntu is the answer to all your windows
troubles. It's not. Lets see, here's a few things I have run into... While I
like Ubuntu (7.04), and will keep "Playing" with it, I have had my share of
problems with it. Currently I am having driver problems.. Sound familiar?
Setting up a printer on a print server was pure H*** Sound familiar? Firefox
keeps crashing and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.. Sound
familiar? Have to have a more powerful computer to use the Desktop
Effects... Sound familiar? Had to jump through hoops and a lot of research
to figure out how to get video to work on certain web pages.. Not familiar.
A "package," (software program), didn't install correctly and killed the
software manager, thus having to type cryptic things in a "terminal".. Sound
familiar? Have to not only be bothered with security when wanting to do
certain things, but also have to type in a password to get it done instead
of a simple click. Sound partially familiar? It didn't even come with a
firewall pre installed and set up, although they highly recommend having
one. Not familiar. ...And I can't remember the rest right now, but you get
the point.

So you see, things in many ways with Ubuntu aren't all that different
from windows now is it? So sing your Ubuntu praises on a blog somewhere or
in their forums, and quit attempting to lead people astray here... In a
WINDOWS news group. ;)

G'day

<kevpan815********.com> wrote in message
news:%2391fI8hBIHA.912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Time To Reformat Your Computer And Install Open Source Linux Ubuntu 7.04
> RTW Or 7.10 Official Beta, Just FYI.
>
> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
>> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
>> system.did
>> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
>> did
>> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
>> system.
>>
>> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
>> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
>> of
>> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
>> and
>> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
>> are
>> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
>> packs.
>>
>> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
>> reinstall,like
>> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the
>> service
>> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
>> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
>> knew
>> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>>
>> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
>> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that
>> box,on
>> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
>> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
>> paid
>> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...
>

SO you admit those things happen to most systems, yet when a Vista user
turns up here complaining about one of "Those things" your reactions is
"My system works okay, you must be stupid" or else "My system is
alright, it must be your drivers" blah blah blah...

Since you decided to discuss Ubuntu in a Windows forum, and as a Linux
"Novice" allow me to point out a few things.

Drivers have been far less of a problem here than Vista drivers.

Printers are, as you suggest, rather more awkward than most. This is
better with some desktops than others but the default Gnome desktop has
a way to go.

Firefox works perfectly well here and under other versions of Linux so
it does sound as if you have a problem, however maybe a reinstall using
Synaptic Package Manager might fix that ?

What computer do you have? What video card? If it won't run GLX then you
are probably out of luck with Aero too. I have Beryl / Compiz on a
Debian machine that is rock steady, occasionally it crashes on Ubuntu
using dual monitors but it crashes quietly and one click fixes the
problem...

Video here worked out of the box...

Never had anything fail to install correctly, but I bet you got back
without reinstalling the complete OS...

Yes you have to elevate privileges to do certain things, but only once,
not several times click here, click there like Vista (Without
necessarily knowing what you have just clicked on). If you are
complaining about security then by default you are complaining about
both systems. You can run Ubuntu as "Root" if you want with much less
trouble than hacking the UAC about in Vista --- IF insecurity and ease
of use is what you really want.

All software firewalls can be beaten by malware, invest in a router and
throw the snake oil in the trashcan.

The only point really is that all OS have good and bad points, XP has a
lot of good points and Vista is a retrograde step for many people. MS
can do so much better.

Do you think that Apple and Linux and Solaris would have improved so
much if it were not necessary to compete with the "Easier to use"
Windows systems?

No one system is the answer to all needs, but MS are not doing
themselves or their users favors by implementing snake oil firewalls and
snake oil (Click everything anyway) UAC which really contribute little
except perhaps a false sense of security.




Yeah-whatever wrote:
> Puh! Don't give us/me this, Ubuntu is the answer to all your windows
> troubles. It's not. Lets see, here's a few things I have run into... While I
> like Ubuntu (7.04), and will keep "Playing" with it, I have had my share of
> problems with it. Currently I am having driver problems.. Sound familiar?
> Setting up a printer on a print server was pure H*** Sound familiar? Firefox
> keeps crashing and I haven't been able to figure it out yet.. Sound
> familiar? Have to have a more powerful computer to use the Desktop
> Effects... Sound familiar? Had to jump through hoops and a lot of research
> to figure out how to get video to work on certain web pages.. Not familiar.
> A "package," (software program), didn't install correctly and killed the
> software manager, thus having to type cryptic things in a "terminal".. Sound
> familiar? Have to not only be bothered with security when wanting to do
> certain things, but also have to type in a password to get it done instead
> of a simple click. Sound partially familiar? It didn't even come with a
> firewall pre installed and set up, although they highly recommend having
> one. Not familiar. ...And I can't remember the rest right now, but you get
> the point.
>
> So you see, things in many ways with Ubuntu aren't all that different
> from windows now is it? So sing your Ubuntu praises on a blog somewhere or
> in their forums, and quit attempting to lead people astray here... In a
> WINDOWS news group. ;)
>
> G'day
>
> <kevpan815********.com> wrote in message
> news:%2391fI8hBIHA.912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Time To Reformat Your Computer And Install Open Source Linux Ubuntu 7.04
>> RTW Or 7.10 Official Beta, Just FYI.
>>
>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
>>> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
>>> system.did
>>> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
>>> did
>>> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
>>> system.
>>>
>>> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
>>> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
>>> of
>>> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
>>> and
>>> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
>>> are
>>> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
>>> packs.
>>>
>>> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
>>> reinstall,like
>>> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the
>>> service
>>> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
>>> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
>>> knew
>>> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>>>
>>> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
>>> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that
>>> box,on
>>> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
>>> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
>>> paid
>>> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...
>
>

"wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
> system.did
> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete product..or
> did
> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
> system.
>
> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os off
> of
> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
> and
> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found out,things
> are
> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
> packs.
>

When I first installed Ubuntu 6.whatever, the release prior to 7.04, there
were over 100 updates available when I got to the desktop. Gee, by your
reckoning, Ubutu must also be a defective OS.

> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
> reinstall,like
> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the service
> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they bought
> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
> knew
> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>

All OSes... -all- OSes, will -always- require updates and patches. So I
guess -all- OSes are defective.

> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that box,on
> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for there
> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what i
> paid
> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...

Well, gee, as far as I know, all of Vista is in the box and on the DVD. If
this is one of those "but they promised the stars and the moon" type
complaints... well, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'd love to sell to you.

Lang

LOL Allrighty then, did we get our feathers a little ruffled? ...And for no
real reason...

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:uUDUT7jBIHA.3548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> SO you admit those things happen to most systems, yet when a Vista user
> turns up here complaining about one of "Those things" your reactions is
> "My system works okay, you must be stupid" or else "My system is alright,
> it must be your drivers" blah blah blah...

Hmmm, don't recall saying ANYTHING that is "admitting" or the need to
admit anything.(?) ...Nor have I said anything to anyone implying they are
stupid.(?)

> Since you decided to discuss Ubuntu in a Windows forum, and as a Linux
> "Novice" allow me to point out a few things.

You Assume I'm a novice. I simply wrote so that a novice windows user
could understand, and be better informed and make their own conclusions.
Further, I was not "discussing" anything with anyone. I made a statement
pointing out a few things to someone advocating Vista removal in favor of
Ubuntu. Nor did I claim I have no problems with Vista and therefore people
who do must be "stupid," for that matter. I would tell a Vista user/promoter
the same thing in an Ubuntu news group in reverse. Yes, people DO have
problems with Vista.

> Drivers have been far less of a problem here than Vista drivers.

The POINT is that one can have the same problem. Who cares if there is
LESS of a problem. The problem still exists.

> Printers are, as you suggest, rather more awkward than most. This is
> better with some desktops than others but the default Gnome desktop has a
> way to go.

My first go-around a long time ago with trying to set up not only a
print server printer, but connecting a shared printer. ( Shared by Vista and
XP), was what I was talking about. The General, novice if you like, computer
user would be ready to kill somebody trying to get it set up. It was a bit
easier in Suse Linux.

> Firefox works perfectly well here and under other versions of Linux so

LOL! do you hear yourself? That is the same sort of thing Vista users
say to each other, except you did offer a fix, and didn't call me stupid. I
haven't had time to go and dink with it, but one of my first thoughts was to
go ahead and reinstall it. It happened after adding the Kubuntu desktop, so
there's the clue. :-)

> What computer do you have? What video card? If it won't run GLX then you

Well, It really doesn't matter, as I was not looking for support, again
just making a point. However, the Ubuntu is on an older test machine, and My
XP/Vista machine runs Aero plenty fine :-)

> using dual monitors but it crashes quietly and one click fixes the
> problem...

Oh I know, but some claim that Ubuntu is invincible by their statements,
and that just isn't true. One can have problems with it.

> Video here worked out of the box...

Yes so did mine, but there are problems with mine being stable under
Ubuntu. Was ok under Suse. I have searched and Intel does offer a Linux
driver that I will try. ...Still, not the point I was making...

> Never had anything fail to install correctly, but I bet you got back
> without reinstalling the complete OS...

Of course I did without reinstalling as I have with windows, The POINT
was that there was a package failure and not the first one, and that one has
to bring up a "root" terminal and type in a few cryptic commands, once you
find out what they should be, to get it back up and running. (Package
manager) One has to do similar things to recover from windows failures, and
then yeah, reinstall the OS. LOL

> Yes you have to elevate privileges to do certain things, but only once,

Yeah only once per instance, and when I'm doing many things requiring
access, I have to do it many times, the point still being that you have to
do it. I am not knocking security, just showing the similarities, and that
simply reformatting and installing Linux is not the answer to all your
windows problems.

You can run Ubuntu as "Root" if you want with much less

"You" as in the general user?? YOU must be kidding. I don't think so...
Not wise.

> All software firewalls can be beaten by malware, invest in a router and
> throw the snake oil in the trashcan.

LOL of course they are, and of course I am behind a router. LOL But
again I made a point and if you go to the Ubuntu security page, they
advocate the use of a firewall and how to install it, so that's what the
general user must figure out if they want one. I use a router and antivirus
programs, that's it... AND I practice very safe hex!

> The only point really is that all OS have good and bad points, XP has a
> lot of good points and Vista is a retrograde step for many people. MS can
> do so much better.

Yep, that was my point alright. As I said, I like Ubuntu (Linux.. have
tried many flavors), but you don't see me here saying "The cause of your
problem is Vista. (Windows in general) You need to reformat and install
Ubuntu." (Or what ever flavor of Linux is being pushed) It's just not right.

> Do you think that Apple and Linux and Solaris would have improved so much
> if it were not necessary to compete with the "Easier to use" Windows
> systems?

Do you think they would NOT continue to try and out-do or at least be
comparable without an added user base? I think not. There have been windows
haters from the very beginning, and thus the war goes on. Us DOS users on
bulletin boards bashed windows and held out a long time before even trying
it. Some never recovered and moved on to try and compete. It has been a LONG
haul and sure, with high pricing, and problematic usage you are going to
have people interested in alternatives. It's only natural. I don't know
about you, but MANY people these days are strapped for cash, so finding free
or low cost alternatives is their only option.

My interest in it (Linux) was to be able to offer my not so well off
clients an inexpensive alternative. People who have just spent 100's of
dollars on what they could afford, are looking here for help, not being
called stupid, and being told that what they just bought is, [wrongly
accused of being] a total pile of dung. ...Not to mention that they should
just wipe 'er clean and install some OS they have NO idea about, and it
being presented as being without problems. When I install on a client's
computer, we do a complete tutorial, and are left on their own only after
they feel comfortable with it. How can this be done in here? It can't nor
shoud it.


> No one system is the answer to all needs, but MS are not doing themselves
> or their users favors by implementing snake oil firewalls and snake oil
> (Click everything anyway) UAC which really contribute little except
> perhaps a false sense of security.
>

Hehe, Just Microsoft and firewalls?? C'mon, get real, I just told about
Ubuntu's recommendation for one.
Ah well, again the point was that there are similar problems, and the OS is
not the flawless system it's made out to be. I'm not being partial to any
one, I just don't like people being bamboozled into one direction or
another.

G'day

>
>
>
> Yeah-whatever wrote:
>> Puh! Don't give us/me this, Ubuntu is the answer to all your windows
>> troubles. It's not. Lets see, here's a few things I have run into...
>> While I like Ubuntu (7.04), and will keep "Playing" with it, I have had
>> my share of problems with it. Currently I am having driver problems..
>> Sound familiar? Setting up a printer on a print server was pure H***
>> Sound familiar? Firefox keeps crashing and I haven't been able to figure
>> it out yet.. Sound familiar? Have to have a more powerful computer to use
>> the Desktop Effects... Sound familiar? Had to jump through hoops and a
>> lot of research to figure out how to get video to work on certain web
>> pages.. Not familiar. A "package," (software program), didn't install
>> correctly and killed the software manager, thus having to type cryptic
>> things in a "terminal".. Sound familiar? Have to not only be bothered
>> with security when wanting to do certain things, but also have to type in
>> a password to get it done instead of a simple click. Sound partially
>> familiar? It didn't even come with a firewall pre installed and set up,
>> although they highly recommend having one. Not familiar. ...And I can't
>> remember the rest right now, but you get the point.
>>
>> So you see, things in many ways with Ubuntu aren't all that different
>> from windows now is it? So sing your Ubuntu praises on a blog somewhere
>> or in their forums, and quit attempting to lead people astray here... In
>> a WINDOWS news group. ;)
>>
>> G'day
>>
>> <kevpan815********.com> wrote in message
>> news:%2391fI8hBIHA.912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> Time To Reformat Your Computer And Install Open Source Linux Ubuntu 7.04
>>> RTW Or 7.10 Official Beta, Just FYI.
>>>
>>> "wheelman" <wheelman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:B57CB052-2036-437E-AEFD-7B79691F3F0F@microsoft.com...
>>>> we went out and bought vista os,it says on the box,vista operating
>>>> system.did
>>>> any one else,think at the time they were buying an incomplete
>>>> product..or did
>>>> you think in that box,for your money,there was a complete operating
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> when you installed it,you had problems,of all kinds or it didnt work at
>>>> all,if you were lucky.real lucky.it installed what there was of an os
>>>> off of
>>>> the dvd and went..for the 31 updates..that microsoft has put out,to try
>>>> and
>>>> make the os,thats defective.to hopefuly work and as you found
>>>> out,things are
>>>> still not working and there are more updates to come and even service
>>>> packs.
>>>>
>>>> to try and patch this defective os..if you have to do a full
>>>> reinstall,like
>>>> i did,you have to go and get all of those updates and patches,,the
>>>> service
>>>> packs.does any one feel.like they got what they paid for when they
>>>> bought
>>>> that windows vista box.they knew that this was a defective os and they
>>>> knew
>>>> what was in this box that they sold the public.
>>>>
>>>> what would you say to any other corp,that did this to you..they cheated
>>>> people out of millions of dollars..the whole product is not in that
>>>> box,on
>>>> that dvd..i dont understand why they cant be held accountiable for
>>>> there
>>>> actions..redo the operating system and send me a new dvd..give me what
>>>> i paid
>>>> for..wheres that lawyer..who wouldnt sign up...
>>

It works as designed for me. The problem is the design.
Defective is an understatement!

"Carey Frisch [MVP]" <cnfrisch@nospamgmail.com> wrote in message
news:1C1B2881-8196-4986-AEF1-534008A68FF3@microsoft.com...
> If you are having a problem with Windows Vista, you need to
> clearly define and state specifically what the problem is in order
> for someone to offer any intelligent troubleshooting advice.