I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears
that Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others. What I
haven't been able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista. Are the
people that are having problems making the most noise? Are the people that
are not having problems just not saying anything?

I remembered that Newegg.com lets people post reviews about the products
they purchase on their web site. For a non-bias opinion I went to Newegg's
site and read some reviews people posted on the Vista operating systems.
Here is one example posted for OEM 32 bit Vista Home Premium. I chose this
product because it had the most reviews (477) posted. The other versions of
Vista were very similar to Home Premium.

Excellent/Good - 71%
Average - 12%
Poor/Very Poor - 17%

There you have it. Draw your own conclusions. Too bad Newegg doesn't sell
Ubuntu. :-)

Well, ****, here we go again...the start of another flame war!

Why are you asking such a silly question anyway? You are asking for people's
OPINIONS. Some like Vista; some don't. Some, like myself, have had only very
minor problems; some have had very serious problems. Some solutions are very
simple: some are not.

Why don't you just read the posts to see what problems and solutions might apply
to you?

All you are doing is contributing to the useless noise in this newsgroup and
giving the lintrolls another excuse for spewing insults and useless OPINIONS.


I Bleed Blue and Gold
GO BEARS!


"Charlie" <Charlie@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eZVSV%234AIHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears that
>Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others. What I haven't been
>able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista. Are the people that are
>having problems making the most noise? Are the people that are not having
>problems just not saying anything?
>
> I remembered that Newegg.com lets people post reviews about the products they
> purchase on their web site. For a non-bias opinion I went to Newegg's site and
> read some reviews people posted on the Vista operating systems. Here is one
> example posted for OEM 32 bit Vista Home Premium. I chose this product because
> it had the most reviews (477) posted. The other versions of Vista were very
> similar to Home Premium.
>
> Excellent/Good - 71%
> Average - 12%
> Poor/Very Poor - 17%
>
> There you have it. Draw your own conclusions. Too bad Newegg doesn't sell
> Ubuntu. :-)
>
>

Charlie wrote:
> I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears
> that Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others. What I
> haven't been able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista.


While not perfect (no software product is), Vista works very well on
fully compatible hardware and with only fully compatible applications
installed.


> Are the
> people that are having problems making the most noise?


Not entirely, as no software product in existence is 100% flawless.
Some people (a very small percentage of Vista's installation base) have
experienced real problems.

And many of the problems are self-inflicted by people who ....

*1)* ... Rushed out to buy the newest and shiniest OS without taking a
few minutes to determine:

a. If they really needed a new operating system,

b. If the new operating system would or could meet their computing
needs and desires,

c. If their existing hardware was adequate to meet the new OS'
requirements,

d. If the manufacturers of their PC's components and/or peripherals
(printers, scanners, cameras, etc.) had provided new, Vista-specific
device drivers and/or software to use with their products,

e. And whether or not all of the 3rd party applications that they
already owned were Vista-compatible, or could be made so be a patch or
update from each programs' respective manufacturer.

*2)* ... Encountered a steeper than expected learning curve. Vista is
different from earlier versions of Windows, and learning those
differences takes time and effort.

*3)* ... Harbor a simple, old-fashioned (but all too common) fear of
change.

However, most of the "noise" in this newsgroup is just that: noise.
There is a very vocal anti-Microsoft and anti-Vista cadre of trolls who
spout a great deal of venom, but apparently have little or no real
experience with either computers in general, or Vista in particular,
based upon some of the nonsense they spout. These pathetic individuals
seem to derive a considerable amount of pleasure from simply disrupting
newsgroups for no other purpose than to sow discord. They have no
interest in helping anyone and are doing their best to make it difficult
for those who honestly seek help to filter the chaff from the wheat, so
to speak.


> Are the people that
> are not having problems just not saying anything?
>

That's exactly it. Do you spontaneously call your doctor to let him
know that you're feeling fine? Do you spontaneously call an auto
mechanic to tell him that your car is working as advertised? This
newsgroup exists for the purpose of helping people resolve problems with
Vista, so almost all of the legitimate posts you'll see are reporting
problems. In a manner of speaking, this is the complaint department;
one would expect to see very little else in this newsgroup. (Just as
one would expect to see mostly sick or injured people in a hospital.
That doesn't mean that everyone in the local area is sick or injured.)

Every once in a while, you'll see someone post a message saying that
they have no problems, and that Vista is wonderful. When these posts
are in response to the trolls' FUD, they're probably sincere and
well-intended, although they do serve the trolls' insatiable desire for
attention. When someone spontaneously submits a post extolling Vista's
virtues, however, we have a different sort of troll, one who's baiting
the anti-Vista trolls.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

read my post above yours...

No .. vista is not magic...


"Charlie" <Charlie@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:eZVSV%234AIHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears
>that Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others. What I
>haven't been able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista. Are the
>people that are having problems making the most noise? Are the people that
>are not having problems just not saying anything?
>
> I remembered that Newegg.com lets people post reviews about the products
> they purchase on their web site. For a non-bias opinion I went to Newegg's
> site and read some reviews people posted on the Vista operating systems.
> Here is one example posted for OEM 32 bit Vista Home Premium. I chose this
> product because it had the most reviews (477) posted. The other versions
> of Vista were very similar to Home Premium.
>
> Excellent/Good - 71%
> Average - 12%
> Poor/Very Poor - 17%
>
> There you have it. Draw your own conclusions. Too bad Newegg doesn't sell
> Ubuntu. :-)
>
>

Extremely well said, Bruce.

Chris S.

"Bruce Chambers" <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote in message
news:utylVO5AIHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Charlie wrote:
>> I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears
>> that Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others. What I
>> haven't been able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista.
>
>
> While not perfect (no software product is), Vista works very well on fully
> compatible hardware and with only fully compatible applications installed.
>
>
>> Are the people that are having problems making the most noise?
>
>
> Not entirely, as no software product in existence is 100% flawless. Some
> people (a very small percentage of Vista's installation base) have
> experienced real problems.
>
> And many of the problems are self-inflicted by people who ....
>
> *1)* ... Rushed out to buy the newest and shiniest OS without taking a
> few minutes to determine:
>
> a. If they really needed a new operating system,
>
> b. If the new operating system would or could meet their computing needs
> and desires,
>
> c. If their existing hardware was adequate to meet the new OS'
> requirements,
>
> d. If the manufacturers of their PC's components and/or peripherals
> (printers, scanners, cameras, etc.) had provided new, Vista-specific
> device drivers and/or software to use with their products,
>
> e. And whether or not all of the 3rd party applications that they already
> owned were Vista-compatible, or could be made so be a patch or update from
> each programs' respective manufacturer.
>
> *2)* ... Encountered a steeper than expected learning curve. Vista is
> different from earlier versions of Windows, and learning those differences
> takes time and effort.
>
> *3)* ... Harbor a simple, old-fashioned (but all too common) fear of
> change.
>
> However, most of the "noise" in this newsgroup is just that: noise. There
> is a very vocal anti-Microsoft and anti-Vista cadre of trolls who spout a
> great deal of venom, but apparently have little or no real experience with
> either computers in general, or Vista in particular, based upon some of
> the nonsense they spout. These pathetic individuals seem to derive a
> considerable amount of pleasure from simply disrupting newsgroups for no
> other purpose than to sow discord. They have no interest in helping
> anyone and are doing their best to make it difficult for those who
> honestly seek help to filter the chaff from the wheat, so to speak.
>
>
>> Are the people that are not having problems just not saying anything?
>>
>
> That's exactly it. Do you spontaneously call your doctor to let him know
> that you're feeling fine? Do you spontaneously call an auto mechanic to
> tell him that your car is working as advertised? This newsgroup exists
> for the purpose of helping people resolve problems with Vista, so almost
> all of the legitimate posts you'll see are reporting problems. In a
> manner of speaking, this is the complaint department; one would expect to
> see very little else in this newsgroup. (Just as one would expect to see
> mostly sick or injured people in a hospital. That doesn't mean that
> everyone in the local area is sick or injured.)
>
> Every once in a while, you'll see someone post a message saying that they
> have no problems, and that Vista is wonderful. When these posts are in
> response to the trolls' FUD, they're probably sincere and well-intended,
> although they do serve the trolls' insatiable desire for attention. When
> someone spontaneously submits a post extolling Vista's virtues, however,
> we have a different sort of troll, one who's baiting the anti-Vista
> trolls.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Bruce Chambers
>
> Help us help you:
> http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin
>
> Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand
> Russell
>
> The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
> killed a great many philosophers.
> ~ Denis Diderot

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:27:44 -0400, "Charlie" <Charlie@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears
>that Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others.

That's a fair, unbiased observation.

>What I haven't been able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista. Are the
>people that are having problems making the most noise? Are the people that
>are not having problems just not saying anything?

It is long established fact that those not having problems rarely
comment in newsgroups or forums just like people don't visit their
doctor just to stop by and say Hi Doc, I'm feeling fine, thought you
would like to know. It is also established for every poster
complaining that works out to roughly 100 others having the same or
similar problem that don't bother to report it. This newsgroup is a
lot of things, but to attempt to use it as a yardstick for how people
feel about Vista or their experience with it is foolish. Most people
using Vista never heard of this newsgroup or other newsgroups for that
matter.

Today's computer and it's hardware and software combination can have
almost infinite variations. Accordingly some, especially those that
hardly use their computer or never get beyond simple tasks like
reading email, surfing the web or doing some trivial tasks like typing
something in a word processor or entering a few figures in a
spreadsheet are hardly qualified to rank a operating system or any
particular system configuration because for starters they don't know
what to look for to know if it is as good as it should be. The often
repeated slow file transfer issue, a KNOWN bug Microsoft admits to is
a classic example. Some people may wonder why it takes so long to copy
move files, but not having anything else to compare it to just blow it
off as normal behavior while someone more experienced KNOWS Vista
sucks at file copying/moving. Not on everyone's system, but enough of
a problem Microsoft rushed out a hotfix back in May and surely will
improve on it further in SP1.

The point is you wouldn't ask your 80 year old grandma to go to the
Indy 500 race track and jump in one of those high powered race cars
and then report back how well it performs after she made a single
circuit of the track at 30 MPH would you? No? Then why or why do
people listen to clueless fanboys who pretend to be experts on Vista
when in fact most are at best casual users?
>
>I remembered that Newegg.com lets people post reviews about the products
>they purchase on their web site. For a non-bias opinion I went to Newegg's
>site and read some reviews people posted on the Vista operating systems.

Hold on. Such reviews are VERY biased. Just one person ranting about a
problem can distort the results if there aren't many reviews and it
could be due to something really dumb they did. The flip side is
people using their computer a couple hours a week tops and raving how
great it is are hardly experts and lack the technical knowledge to
make any informed opinions. Read my grandma analogy again.

>Here is one example posted for OEM 32 bit Vista Home Premium. I chose this
>product because it had the most reviews (477) posted. The other versions of
>Vista were very similar to Home Premium.
>
>Excellent/Good - 71%
>Average - 12%
>Poor/Very Poor - 17%
>
>There you have it. Draw your own conclusions.

OK, looking at your survey nearly 1 out 5 rank Vista as poor to very
poor. That's hardly a ringing endorsement for a mature product (which
Windows is) it has been around for 21 years in one form or another.
Accordingly Microsoft should have learned from it's past mistakes and
redoubled their efforts to ship a product more free of bugs. They
haven't. That's a knock fanboys can't deny or shake.

Microsoft ALWAYS releases the latest version of Windows far behind
schedule, removes a lot of features there were promised in early press
releases and may have even been in early beta releases and then admits
they shipped a version to customers they knew had issues.

I have a simple question. Why should Microsoft's customers accept
should poor performance? Microsoft being the biggest software
developer in the world we should expect more, not less. Especially in
quality control. It is exactly because of idiots like Frank that
tirelessly wave the Microsoft flag and pretend how great their junk is
that Microsoft sees that good enough is good enough and never really
try harder since they see customers accepting pretty good as good
enough. I keep asking why?

In article <eZVSV#4AIHA.3848@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, Charlie@nowhere.com
says...
> Are the
> people that are having problems making the most noise? Are the people that
> are not having problems just not saying anything?

That's how Usenet has always worked - complainers post and few people
without a problem post.

If you have a fast computer, core 2 duo and a fast video card then Vista
will perform well - just don't expect the same level of performance as
you had under XP on the SAME hardware.

--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

Bruce Chambers wrote:

however, we have a different sort of troll, one who's baiting
> the anti-Vista trolls.
>
>
>

Bruce, never seen it written better. I am guilty on a few occasions of
just that.

I hereby swear to never feed another troll, and if I do something stupid
I hope nobody feeds me! Now let's all swear...
--
Dave T.

Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 14:27:44 -0400, Charlie wrote:

> I have been reading this newsgroup for several months now and it appears
> that Vista seems to work very well for some and not for others. What I
> haven't been able to determine is just how bad /good is Vista. Are the
> people that are having problems making the most noise? Are the people that
> are not having problems just not saying anything?
>
> I remembered that Newegg.com lets people post reviews about the products
> they purchase on their web site. For a non-bias opinion I went to Newegg's
> site and read some reviews people posted on the Vista operating systems.
> Here is one example posted for OEM 32 bit Vista Home Premium. I chose this
> product because it had the most reviews (477) posted. The other versions of
> Vista were very similar to Home Premium.
>
> Excellent/Good - 71%
> Average - 12%
> Poor/Very Poor - 17%
>
> There you have it. Draw your own conclusions. Too bad Newegg doesn't sell
> Ubuntu. :-)

Why is that? Canonical will ship Ubuntu for free.

Chris Sidener wrote:
> Extremely well said, Bruce.
>

Thank you.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

Dave T. wrote:
> Bruce Chambers wrote:
>
> however, we have a different sort of troll, one who's baiting
>> the anti-Vista trolls.
>>
>>
>
> Bruce, never seen it written better.


Thank you.


> I am guilty on a few occasions of
> just that.
>

Me too, on occasion. It's just so hard to resist the temptation,
sometimes. ;-}


> I hereby swear to never feed another troll, and if I do something stupid
> I hope nobody feeds me! Now let's all swear...


Well, I promise I'll try to do better. How's that?


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
killed a great many philosophers.
~ Denis Diderot

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:04:09 -0600, Bruce Chambers
<bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:

>Dave T. wrote:
>> Bruce Chambers wrote:
>>
>> however, we have a different sort of troll, one who's baiting
>>> the anti-Vista trolls.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Bruce, never seen it written better.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>> I am guilty on a few occasions of
>> just that.
>>
>
> Me too, on occasion. It's just so hard to resist the temptation,
>sometimes. ;-}

So you admit you're just some jackass that can't control his temper
and acts on impulses. Well duh... thanks for sharing that.

I NEVER saw a bigger bunch of prima donnas and crybaby types then
those that hang out in this silly newsgroup.

On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:12:14 -0400, "Chris Sidener"
<chris_sidener********.com> wrote:

>Extremely well said, Bruce.

Where does the 'let me slap somebody on the back' line begin?

In article <k880g3ta5ltnckr8l5j486hocuv0bthal8@4ax.com>, AA@ABC.net
says...
[snip]
>
> God, you're delusional.

You should have stated that YOU ARE delusional Adam, you never have
anything constructive to say and are the most rude poster I've read in
years.


--

Leythos
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> quacked in message
news:2e80g3ds7p1nr2jkcv0dh37lkccrepto2s@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:04:09 -0600, Bruce Chambers
> <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:
>
>>Dave T. wrote:
>>> Bruce Chambers wrote:
>>>
>>> however, we have a different sort of troll, one who's baiting
>>>> the anti-Vista trolls.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce, never seen it written better.
>>
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>> I am guilty on a few occasions of
>>> just that.
>>>
>>
>> Me too, on occasion. It's just so hard to resist the temptation,
>>sometimes. ;-}
>
> So you admit you're just some quack, quack, quack.
>
> I NEVER saw a quack ,quack, quack
>
>

Ah, Daffy, I see.