"PTravel" <ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote in message
news:%23GcU$q$7HHA.5212@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> "ZensGreedyFly" <zensgreedyfly@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:vmCDi.5076$JD.2511@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...[color=green]
>>I guess I could consider myself an "old schooler" as are most of the
>>others here that are trying to help the less experienced brave a new OS.
>>
>> I suppose listening to the rants of the Vista haters has brought back a
>> bit of nostalgia.
>>
>> Anyone remember these cries of technophobes?
>>
>> "XP?, why the hell would I need that when 98SE blew away 95?"
>>
>> "How will I EVER fill up an entire GIGABYTE?"
>>
>> "What the hell do I need a mouse for when I have a keyboard?"
>>
>> ...I could keep going, but I'd love to hear some of you guy's[/color]
>
> Fun topic! :)
>
> I believe it was Bill Gates who said, "No one will ever need more than 64K
> of RAM."
>
> My first 20 Meg (that's Meg, not Gig) hard drive (in an original IBM XT):
> "Wow, I'll never fill that up!"
>
> My computer with a floppy drive: "Wow, that's so much faster than the
> cassette tape!"
>
> My first home computer (a Sinclair ZX80 - 4k of RAM, expanded to 16k):
> "Wow, it's a miracle that they can pack so much computing power into such
> a small box!"
>
> And . . .
>
> My first interaction with Windows 3.0: "Ugh! Who wants a Graphics User
> Interface, anyway? This thing is for idiots. Give me a comman-line
> interface any day!"[/color]

I gotta admit, though, sometimes I long for one of those 3-mile long pkzip
command lines...or even an ATDT modem string or two...lots of job security
back then, huh?

"Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
news:fbmsfh$f85$1@aioe.org...
[color=blue]
> How about 98se / Why do you want more then 8 Meg of memory?[/color]

My IBM 386x runs w98se with 72M of RAM what's the 8M about?

"ZensGreedyFly" <zensgreedyfly@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:5UDDi.5108$JD.1055@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue]
> right on! that was the old punch card reader eh?
>[/color]

I learnt to program using a porta punch with 40 column cards using a
cdc3300.
I was as school though so I am not that old.

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:14:51 +0000, ZensGreedyFly wrote:
[color=blue]
> I guess I could consider myself an "old schooler" as are most of the
> others here that are trying to help the less experienced brave a new OS.
>
> I suppose listening to the rants of the Vista haters has brought back a
> bit of nostalgia.
>
> Anyone remember these cries of technophobes?
>
> "XP?, why the hell would I need that when 98SE blew away 95?"
>
> "How will I EVER fill up an entire GIGABYTE?"
>
> "What the hell do I need a mouse for when I have a keyboard?"
>
> ...I could keep going, but I'd love to hear some of you guy's[/color]

I understand your point, but I think you're missing part of the big
picture. A Cartesian graph of technology improvements and user benefits
would not be linear. It would be more like x^2=y where x is the benefit
of an incremental improvement and y is the incremental improvement.

In real-world terms, consider the difference between a PC new in 1992 vs.
one that was new in 1997 in terms of power and ease of use. Then
consider the difference between a computer new in 2002 vs. one new in
2007... the difference is minimal for most users, and significant only
for gamers or video editors or others who really make full use of
hardware resources.

The OS still needs to change to make use of more, faster and better
hardware... but does it make sense to introduce a radically new and
different OS at this point in time? Given the relative maturity of the
desktop environment in 2007, user interests would be better served by
incremental changes and improvements. But that approach is inconsistent
with Microsoft's business interests, because it doesn't push people to
upgrade and buy a new license unless they really have a reason to do so.
Hence we get Vista, and we're supposed to say "wow!" as though it's such
an obvious leap forward, like moving from DOS to Windows 95. But it's
not.

Charlie

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:ppvtd359li5moiknuqck863sqn47id8amp@4ax.com...
[color=blue]
> Translation: Vista Haters: anyone that makes a fanboy look like the
> idiots they are.[/color]

Is it possible to make a fanboy look like the idiot a vista hater is?

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:BA30B081-F30A-43D9-BA0D-78B90A418FC2@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
> news:fbmsfh$f85$1@aioe.org...
>[color=green]
>> How about 98se / Why do you want more then 8 Meg of memory?[/color]
>
> My IBM 386x runs w98se with 72M of RAM what's the 8M about?[/color]

The 386 had a maximum memory address space of 64 Meg not 72.

I remember when they started replacing vacuum tubes with individual
transistors and later microprocessors.
I remember when there were no hard drives.
I remember when there was no video.
I remember mylar tape, and punch cards.
I remember when 100 baud was FAST.
I remember HP Basic, Cobol, Fortran, Compiler...DOS, W3.XX, OS2,
98/SE/ME/NT.
In the past change has generally been good. This time, I just don't see/feel
it in Vista.
After 40 years of computing, it feels like a step backwards.
--
A Professional Amateur...If anyone knew it all, none of would be here!
[email]CarGodZeroOne********.com[/email]
Change Alpha to Numeric to reply
"ZensGreedyFly" <zensgreedyfly@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vmCDi.5076$JD.2511@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...[color=blue]
>I guess I could consider myself an "old schooler" as are most of the others
>here that are trying to help the less experienced brave a new OS.
>
> I suppose listening to the rants of the Vista haters has brought back a
> bit of nostalgia.
>
> Anyone remember these cries of technophobes?
>
> "XP?, why the hell would I need that when 98SE blew away 95?"
>
> "How will I EVER fill up an entire GIGABYTE?"
>
> "What the hell do I need a mouse for when I have a keyboard?"
>
> ...I could keep going, but I'd love to hear some of you guy's[/color]

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:11:33 +0100, "dennis@home"
<dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>news:ppvtd359li5moiknuqck863sqn47id8amp@4ax.com...
>[color=green]
>> Translation: Vista Haters: anyone that makes a fanboy look like the
>> idiots they are.[/color]
>
>Is it possible to make a fanboy look like the idiot a vista hater is?[/color]

I haven't seen any Vista haters. You are confused with people having
problems with Vista. Why shouldn't they tell us about it? A better
question is why don't you want them to tell us about their problems
and try to pretend there are no problems?

Just trying to lighten the mood around here, but I'll let you babies keep
crying about the injustice of Big Brother Microsoft and his size 12 boot
pushing on the back of your neck...holding you down and violating your
democratic right to use another OS.

I've tried to be quiet and listen to you whiners throw your hissy fits and
unplug your binkies just to say "I don't wanna!" I'm sick of your tantrums.

NEWSFLASH:
Nobody's making you use Vista. You wanna use something else? Good.
There's at least a 1000 different newsgroups dedicated to whatever turns you
on. The mere fact that you are on a group for the sole purpose of slamming
a product and starting drama defines you. If you were to see what you look
like to everyone I can assure you that you wouldn't like that definition.

I, for one, will assume that you have the fundamental intelligence that you
so avidly preach that you are possessing...take what I say to heart...shut
up or try to be more of a solution than a problem.

I'm bored with your bickering...

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@users.easynews.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.09.05.22.07.46@users.easynews.com...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 18:14:51 +0000, ZensGreedyFly wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I guess I could consider myself an "old schooler" as are most of the
>> others here that are trying to help the less experienced brave a new OS.
>>
>> I suppose listening to the rants of the Vista haters has brought back a
>> bit of nostalgia.
>>
>> Anyone remember these cries of technophobes?
>>
>> "XP?, why the hell would I need that when 98SE blew away 95?"
>>
>> "How will I EVER fill up an entire GIGABYTE?"
>>
>> "What the hell do I need a mouse for when I have a keyboard?"
>>
>> ...I could keep going, but I'd love to hear some of you guy's[/color]
>
> I understand your point, but I think you're missing part of the big
> picture. A Cartesian graph of technology improvements and user benefits
> would not be linear. It would be more like x^2=y where x is the benefit
> of an incremental improvement and y is the incremental improvement.
>
> In real-world terms, consider the difference between a PC new in 1992 vs.
> one that was new in 1997 in terms of power and ease of use. Then
> consider the difference between a computer new in 2002 vs. one new in
> 2007... the difference is minimal for most users, and significant only
> for gamers or video editors or others who really make full use of
> hardware resources.
>
> The OS still needs to change to make use of more, faster and better
> hardware... but does it make sense to introduce a radically new and
> different OS at this point in time? Given the relative maturity of the
> desktop environment in 2007, user interests would be better served by
> incremental changes and improvements. But that approach is inconsistent
> with Microsoft's business interests, because it doesn't push people to
> upgrade and buy a new license unless they really have a reason to do so.
> Hence we get Vista, and we're supposed to say "wow!" as though it's such
> an obvious leap forward, like moving from DOS to Windows 95. But it's
> not.
>
> Charlie[/color]

"Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
news:fbna0m$mpo$1@aioe.org...[color=blue]
>
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
> news:BA30B081-F30A-43D9-BA0D-78B90A418FC2@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
>> news:fbmsfh$f85$1@aioe.org...
>>[color=darkred]
>>> How about 98se / Why do you want more then 8 Meg of memory?[/color]
>>
>> My IBM 386x runs w98se with 72M of RAM what's the 8M about?[/color]
>
> The 386 had a maximum memory address space of 64 Meg not 72.
>[/color]

The 386x is a model number I think it has a Pentium 133 in it.. anyway the
IBM manual said it could only support 40M 8 on the MB and a 32M DIMM but I
had a spare 128M and it sees 72M. Its enough to run my Advantix APS scanner
so I don't worry much. Maybe I should beat up M$ because they don't include
a driver for a discontinued piece of Kodak kit that must have sold in ..
well hundreds?

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:o5dud3l7d7pfg2b1kl9p6il7oj5fuer3mh@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:11:33 +0100, "dennis@home"
> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>
>>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>>news:ppvtd359li5moiknuqck863sqn47id8amp@4ax.com...
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Translation: Vista Haters: anyone that makes a fanboy look like the
>>> idiots they are.[/color]
>>
>>Is it possible to make a fanboy look like the idiot a vista hater is?[/color]
>
> I haven't seen any Vista haters. You are confused with people having
> problems with Vista. Why shouldn't they tell us about it? A better
> question is why don't you want them to tell us about their problems
> and try to pretend there are no problems?
>[/color]


WOOOSH!!!!!!

No a Vista haters tries to tell everyone how bad Vista is without any real
basis in fact. They aren't looking for help they are just venting. It is on
thing to say I need help getting my printer to work instead of saying MS is
bad because my printer doesn't work.
"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:973302F6-B0B0-44A3-B4AD-4663B17670C6@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:o5dud3l7d7pfg2b1kl9p6il7oj5fuer3mh@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:11:33 +0100, "dennis@home"
>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>>>news:ppvtd359li5moiknuqck863sqn47id8amp@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> Translation: Vista Haters: anyone that makes a fanboy look like the
>>>> idiots they are.
>>>
>>>Is it possible to make a fanboy look like the idiot a vista hater is?[/color]
>>
>> I haven't seen any Vista haters. You are confused with people having
>> problems with Vista. Why shouldn't they tell us about it? A better
>> question is why don't you want them to tell us about their problems
>> and try to pretend there are no problems?
>>[/color]
>
>
> WOOOSH!!!!!![/color]

dennis@home wrote:[color=blue]
>
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:o5dud3l7d7pfg2b1kl9p6il7oj5fuer3mh@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 23:11:33 +0100, "dennis@home"
>> <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ppvtd359li5moiknuqck863sqn47id8amp@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> Translation: Vista Haters: anyone that makes a fanboy look like the
>>>> idiots they are.
>>>
>>> Is it possible to make a fanboy look like the idiot a vista hater is?[/color][/color][/color]


You don't have to make Dennis look like an idiot, just wait, he will do
it himself.

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
news:3292D8DF-1D0C-4255-BA6F-E583566C47B2@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>
> "Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
> news:fbna0m$mpo$1@aioe.org...[color=green]
>>
>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
>> news:BA30B081-F30A-43D9-BA0D-78B90A418FC2@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
>>> news:fbmsfh$f85$1@aioe.org...
>>>
>>>> How about 98se / Why do you want more then 8 Meg of memory?
>>>
>>> My IBM 386x runs w98se with 72M of RAM what's the 8M about?[/color]
>>
>> The 386 had a maximum memory address space of 64 Meg not 72.
>>[/color]
>
> The 386x is a model number I think it has a Pentium 133 in it.. anyway the
> IBM manual said it could only support 40M 8 on the MB and a 32M DIMM but I
> had a spare 128M and it sees 72M. Its enough to run my Advantix APS
> scanner so I don't worry much. Maybe I should beat up M$ because they
> don't include a driver for a discontinued piece of Kodak kit that must
> have sold in .. well hundreds?[/color]

Oops my mind was lost in the past the 72 Meg makes sense now.

"Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
news:fbp306$q7t$1@aioe.org...[color=blue]
>
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
> news:3292D8DF-1D0C-4255-BA6F-E583566C47B2@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>>
>> "Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
>> news:fbna0m$mpo$1@aioe.org...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in message
>>> news:BA30B081-F30A-43D9-BA0D-78B90A418FC2@microsoft.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Vista User" <VistaRules@NoSpam.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:fbmsfh$f85$1@aioe.org...
>>>>
>>>>> How about 98se / Why do you want more then 8 Meg of memory?
>>>>
>>>> My IBM 386x runs w98se with 72M of RAM what's the 8M about?
>>>
>>> The 386 had a maximum memory address space of 64 Meg not 72.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> The 386x is a model number I think it has a Pentium 133 in it.. anyway
>> the IBM manual said it could only support 40M 8 on the MB and a 32M DIMM
>> but I had a spare 128M and it sees 72M. Its enough to run my Advantix APS
>> scanner so I don't worry much. Maybe I should beat up M$ because they
>> don't include a driver for a discontinued piece of Kodak kit that must
>> have sold in .. well hundreds?[/color]
>
> Oops my mind was lost in the past the 72 Meg makes sense now.
>[/color]

I checked I now think it was a P120.. it was really quick when I got it..
most people had a 486 at about 50MHz.