"Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OqNBDkW7HHA.4736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> If neither PCI socket was being used for anything, then it would not have
> been a problem other than the cost of a Firewire card.. XP faced similar
> issues when introduced, with intransigent hardware manufacturers refusing
> to support older products.. one can't blame them as they have to generate
> new sales somehow, and at the same time, development of an OS can't stand
> still either..
>
Mike, my wife just purchased a new Sony digital camera and installed the
Sony USB Driver set (it installs with the Sony "Vista" software) and it
screwed up the install of Vista Ultimate completely. I now hang on
restart/shutdown and then bluescreen. It disabled my System Restore points
too and there is no way to get to them. They also caused several other small
issues that bug me. I dual boot with XP and now need to do a reinstall of
Vista and it is a PIA to reconfigure my dual boot configuration. I cannot
even do an 'Upgrade' install from within Vista, which would make my task
much easier. I am sure it is a problem with those Sony drivers (they are not
really needed anyway) but it is still a real pain.

Ed
>
> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:fbee27$bco$1@news.datemas.de...
>>I have been trying Vista for a while and trying to see if I could get on
>> with it but the other day I got out my Sony Camcorder and tried to use
>> the
>> USB streaming feature on it as I had no problem always using it in XP I
>> thought oh well in must work in Vista if I just load the Sony USB
>> drivers -
>> wrong!
>>
>> I went to the Sony website which said it wasn't supported in Vista and
>> sent
>> Sony an email and they confirmed that USB streaming is not available in
>> Vista and they have no plans to introduce any new drivers or patches so
>> that
>> it will work and suggested I use firewire instead.
>>
>> My new PC only has 2 PCI sockets so now I have to use up one of those
>> sockets with a PCI Firewire card if I want to go that way - so bugger
>> that I
>> have gone back to XP now and got my streaming back, like using IE6
>> instead
>> of IE7 and feel like I have been reacquainted with an old friend and like
>> using XP much better plus there are huge load of programs and software
>> for
>> XP out there. Maybe after Vista has been out for a year it might be
>> better
>> but the way I feel at the moment is that out of XP & vista I know myself
>> which one is the best operating system.
>>
>> Andy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
> Mike Hall
> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>
>
>

Any time you boot into XP your delete all your Vista restore points. 1000's
of posts on the subject in Vista newsgroups

"Ed M." <ed@edmedlin.com> wrote in message
news:WAWCi.1485$Sd4.1053@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
> "Mike Hall - MVP" <mikehall@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OqNBDkW7HHA.4736@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> If neither PCI socket was being used for anything, then it would not have
>> been a problem other than the cost of a Firewire card.. XP faced similar
>> issues when introduced, with intransigent hardware manufacturers refusing
>> to support older products.. one can't blame them as they have to generate
>> new sales somehow, and at the same time, development of an OS can't stand
>> still either..
>>
> Mike, my wife just purchased a new Sony digital camera and installed
> the Sony USB Driver set (it installs with the Sony "Vista" software) and
> it screwed up the install of Vista Ultimate completely. I now hang on
> restart/shutdown and then bluescreen. It disabled my System Restore points
> too and there is no way to get to them. They also caused several other
> small issues that bug me. I dual boot with XP and now need to do a
> reinstall of Vista and it is a PIA to reconfigure my dual boot
> configuration. I cannot even do an 'Upgrade' install from within Vista,
> which would make my task much easier. I am sure it is a problem with those
> Sony drivers (they are not really needed anyway) but it is still a real
> pain.
>
> Ed
>>
>> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
>> news:fbee27$bco$1@news.datemas.de...
>>>I have been trying Vista for a while and trying to see if I could get on
>>> with it but the other day I got out my Sony Camcorder and tried to use
>>> the
>>> USB streaming feature on it as I had no problem always using it in XP I
>>> thought oh well in must work in Vista if I just load the Sony USB
>>> drivers -
>>> wrong!
>>>
>>> I went to the Sony website which said it wasn't supported in Vista and
>>> sent
>>> Sony an email and they confirmed that USB streaming is not available in
>>> Vista and they have no plans to introduce any new drivers or patches so
>>> that
>>> it will work and suggested I use firewire instead.
>>>
>>> My new PC only has 2 PCI sockets so now I have to use up one of those
>>> sockets with a PCI Firewire card if I want to go that way - so bugger
>>> that I
>>> have gone back to XP now and got my streaming back, like using IE6
>>> instead
>>> of IE7 and feel like I have been reacquainted with an old friend and
>>> like
>>> using XP much better plus there are huge load of programs and software
>>> for
>>> XP out there. Maybe after Vista has been out for a year it might be
>>> better
>>> but the way I feel at the moment is that out of XP & vista I know myself
>>> which one is the best operating system.
>>>
>>> Andy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>> Mike Hall
>> MS MVP Windows Shell/User
>> http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:

> .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
> full resolution DV.

IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.

So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
devices being used.

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
>
> > .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
> > full resolution DV.
>
> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
>
> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
> devices being used.

Is the issue about speed or quality? - I thought if you used firewire the
refresh rate was better because its faster speed?

Andy.

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007 00:25:47 +0100, "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote:

>
>"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
>news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196 .97.142...
>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
>> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
>>
>> > .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
>> > full resolution DV.
>>
>> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
>>
>> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
>> devices being used.
>
>Is the issue about speed or quality? - I thought if you used firewire the
>refresh rate was better because its faster speed?
>
>Andy.
>
Nope, that's apples and oranges. Compression or it's bitrate a video
is compressed at determines it's quality. The higher the bitrate the
better the quality. How fast the file can be transferred over a USB or
Firewire or any interface for that matter is irrelevant to the file's
quality which remains constant regardless how fast is moves over the
interface.

So if you want good quality video always use the least compression
possible which means encoding at a higher bitrate. That's why a DVD
looks better than a CD. A typical video on a CD can't have a bitrate
much higher than 1,700,000 bps and calls for a MPEG-1 file. A DVD can
be encoded as high at 8,000,000 bps and uses a MPEG-2 file.

It can be a bit confusing since BPS also does means how fast data
moves relative to a unit of time however one second of DVD video is of
much higher quality that the same second of video X encoded at CD
bitrates with a resulting much larger file. It is similar to still
images and deciding what color depth to use. A still image encoded at
32 bit carries much more color information that the same image encoded
at 8 bit.

Theoretical is cute, but actual sustained rate comparisons show Firewire
much faster due to its peer to peer design vs. master/slave for USB. USB is
even slower with other USB devices being used.


"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
>
>> .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
>> full resolution DV.
>
> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
>
> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
> devices being used.

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
>
>> .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
>> full resolution DV.
>
> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
>
> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
> devices being used.

It doesn't quite work like that though.
Even if you get a PC that can do 480Mb/s on USB you can bet that the cheapo
USB chip in the camera can't.
If anyone has actually found a combination that streams full res DV over
USB2 I would like to know what?

"dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
news:E51AB37C-6AD6-4D3E-A844-5DF0CC325A0F@microsoft.com:

>
> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
> news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
>> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
>>
>>> .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
>>> full resolution DV.
>>
>> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
>>
>> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
>> devices being used.
>
> It doesn't quite work like that though.
> Even if you get a PC that can do 480Mb/s on USB you can bet that the
> cheapo USB chip in the camera can't.
> If anyone has actually found a combination that streams full res DV
> over USB2 I would like to know what?
>
>

There was a post here last week with someone complaining of the exact
problem. Vista no longer supports USB streaming, only IEEE1394. XP
supported it according to the poster.

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns99A3EDBBEEA7Athisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...

> There was a post here last week with someone complaining of the exact
> problem. Vista no longer supports USB streaming, only IEEE1394. XP
> supported it according to the poster.

IIRC the poster couldn't get it to work with his Sony DV.. Its Sony's driver
that doesn't work and isn't going to be updated.
Other DV cameras work with USB streaming AFAIK.
My USB camera certainly streams video to messenger or moviemaker.

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns99A3EDBBEEA7Athisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
> news:E51AB37C-6AD6-4D3E-A844-5DF0CC325A0F@microsoft.com:
>
> >
> > "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
> > news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
> >> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
> >> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
> >>
> >>> .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
> >>> full resolution DV.
> >>
> >> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
> >>
> >> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
> >> devices being used.
> >
> > It doesn't quite work like that though.
> > Even if you get a PC that can do 480Mb/s on USB you can bet that the
> > cheapo USB chip in the camera can't.
> > If anyone has actually found a combination that streams full res DV
> > over USB2 I would like to know what?
> >
> >
>
> There was a post here last week with someone complaining of the exact
> problem. Vista no longer supports USB streaming, only IEEE1394. XP
> supported it according to the poster.

Is there an actual valid useful reason or technical reason why Vista don't
support USB streaming or did they (MS) just decide that people will not want
it any more so why bother supporting it, because they didn't bother asking
people like me who would still like to see this feature in vista.

Andy.

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in news:fbrmq1$ru3$1@news.datemas.de:

>
> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
> news:Xns99A3EDBBEEA7Athisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
>> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
>> news:E51AB37C-6AD6-4D3E-A844-5DF0CC325A0F@microsoft.com:
>>
>> >
>> > "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
>> > news:Xns99A1A6C4DF1F3thisnthatadelphianet@216.196. 97.142...
>> >> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
>> >> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:
>> >>
>> >>> .. it is doubtful that USB2 could stream
>> >>> full resolution DV.
>> >>
>> >> IIRC, theoretical USB2 is 480 mbs and IEEE_1394 is 400 mbs.
>> >>
>> >> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other
>> >> USB2 devices being used.
>> >
>> > It doesn't quite work like that though.
>> > Even if you get a PC that can do 480Mb/s on USB you can bet that
>> > the cheapo USB chip in the camera can't.
>> > If anyone has actually found a combination that streams full res DV
>> > over USB2 I would like to know what?
>> >
>> >
>>
>> There was a post here last week with someone complaining of the exact
>> problem. Vista no longer supports USB streaming, only IEEE1394. XP
>> supported it according to the poster.
>
> Is there an actual valid useful reason or technical reason why Vista
> don't support USB streaming or did they (MS) just decide that people
> will not want it any more so why bother supporting it, because they
> didn't bother asking people like me who would still like to see this
> feature in vista.
>
> Andy.


DanS is totally confused and his messages should be disregarded in this
thread.

DanS wrote:
> "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> wrote in
> news:518E8865-E3FC-4A67-A5F9-CD4BF575DFA2@microsoft.com:

> So, in theory, if Firewire can, USB2 can, if there are no other USB2
> devices being used.

But I thought that one of the reasons why firewire was faster than USB 2
is becuase is has a dedicated UART to manage the data flow where as USB2
has no dedicated flow control and while 400mbs is possible on paper,
these speeds are never achieved in Windows.