Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it (Doubt
if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know is if I
can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just chose at
startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it dual
booting isn't it?

But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive if
I can avoid it to do this.

Many thanks,

Andy.

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
> dual booting isn't it?
>
> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
> if I can avoid it to do this.[/color]


Yes, but only with partitioning or buying a secondary hard drive, and there
is an issue with XP wiping out Vista's System Restore and Volume Shadow
Copies.

To avoid that and to do it without messing everything up you should do a lot
of reading up on this before attempting it. Maybe somebody else can give
you some links.

ss.

Look at Virtual PC instead:

[url]http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx[/url]

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] [email]rgharper******.com[/email]
* NEW! Catch my blog ... [url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/rgharper/[/url]
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* The Website - [url]http://rgharper.mvps.org/[/url]
* HELP us help YOU ... [url]http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm[/url]


"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
> dual booting isn't it?
>
> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
> if I can avoid it to do this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
>
>[/color]

Hi Andy--

The bottom line is that setting up a dual boot is a piece of cake; it can be
very useful as a space saver and a convenience because you always have the
files and folders and settings of XP with you (although the great variety
and sale prices of external hard drives now are very attractive and are just
going to get better as to the space/storage situation and many online
storage setups are emerging--even one from MSFT--Cloud which also lets you
share One Note folders across pcs.

If you have any questions after seeing these links, put them up.

What you want to do is possible, although it's always strongly advisable in
setting up a dual boot to install the older OS (XP) *first. I consider the
restore point problem that SS mentions a very minor one, because you can
easily shortcut from the Vista desktop to the XP desktop (with full access
to your files and folders) by typing
XP Drive\Documents and Settings\Andy's XP Profile\Desktop and dragging a
shortcut from the address bar of that folder to your Vista desktop. That
makes it rare for me to have to go to the XP via a boot to it although I do
it once in a while just to check that the AV program (One Care in my case)
and other things are humming along.

XP has a lot of important folders for me and I've just moved the important
ones to Vista or another drive into one folder for moved files that I can
conveniently bring up by typing its file path into an IE address bar.

Here are screenshots step by step for doing what you want to do.

[url]http://apcmag.com/5485/dualbooting_vista_and_xp[/url]

[url]http://www.setup32.com/resource-guides/windows-vista/how-to-dualboot-vista-and-xp-with-vista-.php[/url]

[url]http://nvis.net/articles/5/1/How-to-dual-boot-Vista-and-XP-with-Vista-installed-first/Page1.html[/url]

Some background and context for you from Paul Thurrott:
[url]http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_install_04.asp[/url]

Good luck,

CH

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
> dual booting isn't it?
>
> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
> if I can avoid it to do this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
>
>[/color]

BEFORE you buy the PC, check the Dell website and verify that there is a WXP
driver for every component of the PC, Basically, the WXP and Vista driver
lists should include all the same components. A lot of new PCs have NO WXP
drivers. You might even try an online chat with Dell support and ask about
potential problems with dual booting with WXP.

Maybe you will be lucky and not have problems. Just in case, I would create
a Ghost or Acronis image of the hard drive prior to booting the system. A
compressed image will range from 8 to 12 gigabytes and can be burned to a
bootable set of DVDs from which you can restore. Test that image by putting
a different hard drive in the computer, boot from the DVD and do the
restore. Then verify that it boots up just like the original drive should
have. Maybe this is overkill, but ...

-Paul Randall

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
> dual booting isn't it?
>
> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
> if I can avoid it to do this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
>
>[/color]

I'd just like to Add two points--particularly since you say you're buying a
Dell PC:

1) Paul's advice to create an image or backup is very important under any
circumstances. I consider Acronis True Image 10 a great investment because
of its ease and variety.

2) It has long been a sore point of mine voiced to the Softies that they put
pressure on OEM Named Partners and they do not to ship a DVD. The reports
of pre-Vista SP1 (Build No. 6001.16549 of Vista) in small pre-Beta
distribution right now and wide Torrent distribution on the web, is that it
includes Win RE files for everyone to be able to install which answers one
of my big criticisms that MSFT leaves its end users with pre-installed XP
and pre-installed Vista up a creek without a Repair Install or Win RE
paddle. This is done via the new tool called "Create a Recovery Disk" which
is Redmondspeak for saying "We are giving you Win RE that you would have had
if we had not forced almost all of our OEM Named Partners into not sending
you one except Dell who bucked us this time around with Vista and their new
pcs." There is a screenshot of it in the link below. I'd say to MSFT---it's
about time. Why didn't you release this file to all people who purchased a
legit Vista when it RTM'd nearly a year ago, that Bill Gates recently
crowed about???

Features in Vista SP1 (Build No. 6001.16549 of Vista)
[url]http://www.apcmag.com/6929/vista_sp1_in_depth[/url]

If you're a Dude buyin' a Dell, Dell says explicitly that you be gettin' a
Vista OS DVD (with Win RE on it that MSFT is rumored to be giving you soon
in Vista SP1)--this is a good move on the part of Dell but unfortunately
Greedy MSFT and Greedy 300 other OEM Named partners have continued to
chicken out in this reguard denying an OS DVD to the customers who make them
very rich. I think that's the gold standard for how concerned MSFT is for
their end users who don't have enterprise means of installing Win RE.
However, in a pang of conscience moving in the right direction many reports
say that Vista SP1 will have the ability for anyone to install Win RE.

I would like to point out though if you're a dude buyin' a Dell as I have
about 50 times on this group that Dell says they are providing a Vista DVD
and if you're spending several hundred/a thousand dollars for a box from
them I'd sure ask them to send one.

If you need some amunition before you pay them, here it is. Here's Dell
saying they are shipping a Vista DVD with each and every Dell box: (in
defiance of the greedy company called MSFT who makes over a hundred bucks
for Vista preinstalls) and had the idea before putting it in Vista SP1 that
they would deprive their end users in the millions of Win RE in Vista.

[url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx[/url]

If I am reading correctly this says:

"Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
reinstallation CD when they need it...

Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I mis-read
the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this been in
the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S. consumer
and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an operating
system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later next month. In
Asia, things are unchanged—we've always shipped OS discs with systems
there."

And at

Lionel Menchaca, Digital Media Manager said:

[url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx#3187[/url]

Update: Good news—just confirmed with software folks that the PC Restore
utility will remain intact. All Dimension and Inspiron systems will now come
with the OS disc and the PC Restore utility.


October 19, 2006 10:20 PM

Happy Dual Booting Andy, and call Dell and make sure they send you an OS DVD
regardless of the fact they are making Win RE available as they should have
long ago in Vista SP1.

[url]http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_install_04.asp[/url]

CH



"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
> dual booting isn't it?
>
> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
> if I can avoid it to do this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Andy.
>
>
>[/color]

"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:eNs#wtg3HHA.4672@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> I'd just like to Add two points--particularly since you say you're buying
> a Dell PC:
>[/color]

Also if you are buying a Dell PC make sure that you remove any
preinstalled antivirus software. They seem to be accepting bribes
to include non Vista compatible software such as Norton and McAfee.
Use Avast or AVG, both free, instead.

note. email antivirus scanning is superfluous and has been known to screw
Windows Mail.

[url]http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3[/url]


[color=blue]
> 1) Paul's advice to create an image or backup is very important under any
> circumstances. I consider Acronis True Image 10 a great investment
> because of its ease and variety.
>
> 2) It has long been a sore point of mine voiced to the Softies that they
> put pressure on OEM Named Partners and they do not to ship a DVD. The
> reports of pre-Vista SP1 (Build No. 6001.16549 of Vista) in small pre-Beta
> distribution right now and wide Torrent distribution on the web, is that
> it includes Win RE files for everyone to be able to install which answers
> one of my big criticisms that MSFT leaves its end users with pre-installed
> XP and pre-installed Vista up a creek without a Repair Install or Win RE
> paddle. This is done via the new tool called "Create a Recovery Disk"
> which is Redmondspeak for saying "We are giving you Win RE that you would
> have had if we had not forced almost all of our OEM Named Partners into
> not sending you one except Dell who bucked us this time around with Vista
> and their new pcs." There is a screenshot of it in the link below. I'd
> say to MSFT---it's about time. Why didn't you release this file to all
> people who purchased a legit Vista when it RTM'd nearly a year ago, that
> Bill Gates recently crowed about???
>
> Features in Vista SP1 (Build No. 6001.16549 of Vista)
> [url]http://www.apcmag.com/6929/vista_sp1_in_depth[/url]
>
> If you're a Dude buyin' a Dell, Dell says explicitly that you be gettin' a
> Vista OS DVD (with Win RE on it that MSFT is rumored to be giving you soon
> in Vista SP1)--this is a good move on the part of Dell but unfortunately
> Greedy MSFT and Greedy 300 other OEM Named partners have continued to
> chicken out in this reguard denying an OS DVD to the customers who make
> them very rich. I think that's the gold standard for how concerned MSFT
> is for their end users who don't have enterprise means of installing Win
> RE. However, in a pang of conscience moving in the right direction many
> reports say that Vista SP1 will have the ability for anyone to install Win
> RE.
>
> I would like to point out though if you're a dude buyin' a Dell as I have
> about 50 times on this group that Dell says they are providing a Vista DVD
> and if you're spending several hundred/a thousand dollars for a box from
> them I'd sure ask them to send one.
>
> If you need some amunition before you pay them, here it is. Here's Dell
> saying they are shipping a Vista DVD with each and every Dell box: (in
> defiance of the greedy company called MSFT who makes over a hundred bucks
> for Vista preinstalls) and had the idea before putting it in Vista SP1
> that they would deprive their end users in the millions of Win RE in
> Vista.
>
> [url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx[/url]
>
> If I am reading correctly this says:
>
> "Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
> reinstallation CD when they need it...
>
> Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell employees
> for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I wrote this,
> the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for $0. I
> mis-read the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also, though this
> been in the works for some time before now, it's now official. For U.S.
> consumer and small business customers, all systems will now ship with an
> operating system disc. This change will take effect in Europe by later
> next month. In Asia, things are unchanged—we've always shipped OS discs
> with systems there."
>
> And at
>
> Lionel Menchaca, Digital Media Manager said:
>
> [url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx#3187[/url]
>
> Update: Good news—just confirmed with software folks that the PC Restore
> utility will remain intact. All Dimension and Inspiron systems will now
> come with the OS disc and the PC Restore utility.
>
>
> October 19, 2006 10:20 PM
>
> Happy Dual Booting Andy, and call Dell and make sure they send you an OS
> DVD regardless of the fact they are making Win RE available as they should
> have long ago in Vista SP1.
>
> [url]http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_install_04.asp[/url]
>
> CH
>
>
>
> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=green]
>> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
>> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
>> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
>> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
>> dual booting isn't it?
>>
>> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
>> if I can avoid it to do this.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Andy.
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

Julian--

Those are good AV choices. Symantec is bloated, often corrupts after a
little use, and can be a pain to uninstall requiring a tedious cascade or
registry key and file deletions to uninstall manually and it's zap
tool--even longer than Windows One Care does.

All the OEMs sell space on their desktop for many apps and work deals for
what Walter Mossberg calls "crap ware"--it's just part of the advertising
culture. I'm not sure if they are "bribes" so much as they are business as
usual with desktop real estate. Whatever they are, with respect to Dell and
Vista, Goolge paid a bigger bribe than MSFT to MSFT's chagrin to get space
on Dell's desktop.

[url]http://www.caseytech.com/?s=how+to+remove+software+[/url]

By the way, what name do you give to the phenomenon where Accountant and OEM
VP for Microsoft Scott Di Valerio forces the 300+ OEM Named Partners (Dell
Bucked them) into not shipping a Vista DVD with the expensive purchase of
hardware called a computer with a markup as high as 1100% for the hardware
and for the preinstalled Vista MSFT sells to be loaded onto the box. MSFT
has caught enough flack at hosing their millions of end users out of Win RE
in Vista to feel enough guilt to include it in Vista SP1 that has been
downloaded by thousands this week. Service Packs are notorious in Windows
OS's for having near zip functionality improvements--as in SP2--but this is
a rare exception.

LOL--you'd have a helluva time with the Wall Street Journal and the New York
Times because some of the richest people on the planet called Hedge Fund
Managers get "breaks" after paying "bribes" to Senators and Congressmen and
Congresswomen in the US and the people that clean the bathrooms in their
offices pay more taxes than the hedge fund managers under the bribery system
codified into law in the United States.

As in:

Congress Weighs End to Private Equity Tax Break

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/21/business/21tax.html?ex=1340078400&en=683553d96c998c33&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss[/url]

CH

When Rove says he's quitting to be with his family, that's English for he's
"quitting because Abramoff has been singing to the FBI for a year and his
ass is about to get indicted."

PAUL KRUGMAN: It’s All About Them
Ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your
father’s political campaign.

Last week, at one of Mitt Romney’s “Ask Mitt” forums, a woman in the
audience asked Mr. Romney whether any of his five sons are serving in the
military and, if not, when they plan to enlist.

The candidate replied with a rambling attempt to change the subject, but
near the end he let his real feelings slip. “It’s remarkable how we can show
our support for our nation,” he said, “and one of the ways my sons are
showing support for our nation is helping to get me elected, because they
think I’d be a great president.”

Wow. The important point isn’t the fact that Mr. Romney’s sons aren’t in
uniform — although it is striking just how few of those who claim to believe
that we’re engaged in a struggle for our very existence think that they
themselves should be called on to make any sacrifices. The point is,
instead, that Mr. Romney apparently considers helping him get elected an act
of service comparable to putting your life on the line in Iraq.

Yet the week’s prize for most self-centered remark by a serious presidential
contender goes not to Mr. Romney, but to his principal rival for the G.O.P.
nomination.

Rudy Giuliani has lately been getting some long-overdue criticism for his
missteps both before and after 9/11. For example, The Village Voice reports
that he insisted that the city’s emergency command center — which included a
personal suite with its own elevator that he visited “often, even on
weekends, bringing his girlfriend Judi Nathan there long before the
relationship surfaced” — be within walking distance of City Hall. This led
to the disastrous decision to locate the center in the World Trade Center,
an obvious potential terrorist target.

At the same time, Mr. Giuliani is being attacked for his failure to take
adequate precautions to protect those who worked on the cleanup at ground
zero from the hazards at the site. Many workers have since been sickened by
the dust and toxic materials.

For a politician whose entire campaign is based on the myth of his
leadership that fateful day — as The Onion put it, Mr. Giuliani is running
for “president of 9/11” — anything that challenges his personal legend is a
big problem. So here’s what Mr. Giuliani said last week in response: “I was
at ground zero as often, if not more, than most of the workers. ... I was
exposed to exactly the same things they were exposed to. So in that sense, I’m
one of them.”

Real ground zero workers, who were digging through the toxic rubble while
Mr. Giuliani held photo ops, were understandably outraged. So the next day
Mr. Giuliani tried to recover, claiming that “what I was trying to say
yesterday is that I empathize with them because I feel like I have that same
risk.” But thanks to the wonders of YouTube, we can all watch Mr. Giuliani’s
actual demeanor as he delivered the original remarks. Empathy had nothing to
do with it.

What’s striking about these unintentional moments of self-revelation is how
much Mr. Romney and Mr. Giuliani sound like the current occupant of the
White House.

It has long been clear that President Bush doesn’t feel other people’s pain.
His self-centeredness shines through whenever he makes off-the-cuff,
unscripted remarks, from his jocular obliviousness in the aftermath of
Hurricane Katrina to the joke he made last year in San Antonio when visiting
the Brooke Army Medical Center, which treats the severely wounded: “As you
can possibly see, I have an injury myself — not here at the hospital, but in
combat with a cedar. I eventually won. The cedar gave me a little scratch.”

What’s now clear is that the two men most likely to end up as the G.O.P.
presidential nominee are cut from the same cloth.

This probably isn’t a coincidence. Arguably, the current state of the
Republican Party is such that only extreme narcissists have a chance of
getting nominated.

To be a serious presidential contender, after all, you have to be a fairly
smart guy — and nobody has accused either Mr. Romney or Mr. Giuliani of
being stupid. To appeal to the G.O.P. base, however, you have to say very
stupid things, like Mr. Romney’s declaration that we should “double
Guantánamo,” or Mr. Giuliani’s dismissal of the idea that raising taxes is
sometimes necessary to pay for things like repairing bridges as a
“Democratic, liberal assumption.”

So the G.O.P. field is dominated by smart men willing to play dumb to
further their personal ambitions. We shouldn’t be surprised, then, to learn
that these men are monstrously self-centered.

All of which leaves us with a political question. Most voters are thoroughly
fed up with the current narcissist in chief. Are they really ready to elect
another?
posted by See You On The Other Side at 7:49 PM 0 comments
Thursday, August 09, 2007
PAUL KRUGMAN: Very Scary Things
In September 1998, the collapse of Long Term Capital Management, a giant
hedge fund, led to a meltdown in the financial markets similar, in some
ways, to what’s happening now. During the crisis in ’98, I attended a
closed-door briefing given by a senior Federal Reserve official, who laid
out the grim state of the markets. “What can we do about it?” asked one
participant. “Pray,” replied the Fed official.

Our prayers were answered. The Fed coordinated a rescue for L.T.C.M., while
Robert Rubin, the Treasury secretary at the time, and Alan Greenspan, who
was the Fed chairman, assured investors that everything would be all right.
And the panic subsided.

Yesterday, President Bush, showing off his M.B.A. vocabulary, similarly
tried to reassure the markets. But Mr. Bush is, let’s say, a bit lacking in
credibility. On the other hand, it’s not clear that anyone could do the
trick: right now we’re suffering from a serious shortage of saviors. And
that’s too bad, because we might need one.

What’s been happening in financial markets over the past few days is
something that truly scares monetary economists: liquidity has dried up.
That is, markets in stuff that is normally traded all the time — in
particular, financial instruments backed by home mortgages — have shut down
because there are no buyers.

This could turn out to be nothing more than a brief scare. At worst,
however, it could cause a chain reaction of debt defaults.

The origins of the current crunch lie in the financial follies of the last
few years, which in retrospect were as irrational as the dot-com mania. The
housing bubble was only part of it; across the board, people began acting as
if risk had disappeared.

Everyone knows now about the explosion in subprime loans, which allowed
people without the usual financial qualifications to buy houses, and the
eagerness with which investors bought securities backed by these loans. But
investors also snapped up high-yield corporate debt, a k a junk bonds,
driving the spread between junk bond yields and U.S. Treasuries down to
record lows.

Then reality hit — not all at once, but in a series of blows. First, the
housing bubble popped. Then subprime melted down. Then there was a surge in
investor nervousness about junk bonds: two months ago the yield on corporate
bonds rated B was only 2.45 percent higher than that on government bonds;
now the spread is well over 4 percent.

Investors were rattled recently when the subprime meltdown caused the
collapse of two hedge funds operated by Bear Stearns, the investment bank.
Since then, markets have been manic-depressive, with triple-digit gains or
losses in the Dow Jones industrial average — the rule rather than the
exception for the past two weeks.

But yesterday’s announcement by BNP Paribas, a large French bank, that it
was suspending the operations of three of its own funds was, if anything,
the most ominous news yet. The suspension was necessary, the bank said,
because of “the complete evaporation of liquidity in certain market
segments” — that is, there are no buyers.

When liquidity dries up, as I said, it can produce a chain reaction of
defaults. Financial institution A can’t sell its mortgage-backed securities,
so it can’t raise enough cash to make the payment it owes to institution B,
which then doesn’t have the cash to pay institution C — and those who do
have cash sit on it, because they don’t trust anyone else to repay a loan,
which makes things even worse.

And here’s the truly scary thing about liquidity crises: it’s very hard for
policy makers to do anything about them.

The Fed normally responds to economic problems by cutting interest rates —
and as of yesterday morning the futures markets put the probability of a
rate cut by the Fed before the end of next month at almost 100 percent. It
can also lend money to banks that are short of cash: yesterday the European
Central Bank, the Fed’s trans-Atlantic counterpart, lent banks $130 billion,
saying that it would provide unlimited cash if necessary, and the Fed pumped
in $24 billion.

But when liquidity dries up, the normal tools of policy lose much of their
effectiveness. Reducing the cost of money doesn’t do much for borrowers if
nobody is willing to make loans. Ensuring that banks have plenty of cash
doesn’t do much if the cash stays in the banks’ vaults.

There are other, more exotic things the Fed and, more important, the
executive branch of the U.S. government could do to contain the crisis if
the standard policies don’t work. But for a variety of reasons, not least
the current administration’s record of incompetence, we’d really rather not
go there.

Let’s hope, then, that this crisis blows over as quickly as that of 1998.
But I wouldn’t count on it.





"Julian" <Julianlzb87******.com> wrote in message
news:934F1565-5ED8-488A-872D-31CE186B0DA6@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>
>
> "Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
> news:eNs#wtg3HHA.4672@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=green]
>> I'd just like to Add two points--particularly since you say you're buying
>> a Dell PC:
>>[/color]
>
> Also if you are buying a Dell PC make sure that you remove any
> preinstalled antivirus software. They seem to be accepting bribes
> to include non Vista compatible software such as Norton and McAfee.
> Use Avast or AVG, both free, instead.
>
> note. email antivirus scanning is superfluous and has been known to screw
> Windows Mail.
>
> [url]http://www.oehelp.com/OETips.aspx#3[/url]
>
>
>[color=green]
>> 1) Paul's advice to create an image or backup is very important under any
>> circumstances. I consider Acronis True Image 10 a great investment
>> because of its ease and variety.
>>
>> 2) It has long been a sore point of mine voiced to the Softies that they
>> put pressure on OEM Named Partners and they do not to ship a DVD. The
>> reports of pre-Vista SP1 (Build No. 6001.16549 of Vista) in small
>> pre-Beta distribution right now and wide Torrent distribution on the web,
>> is that it includes Win RE files for everyone to be able to install which
>> answers one of my big criticisms that MSFT leaves its end users with
>> pre-installed XP and pre-installed Vista up a creek without a Repair
>> Install or Win RE paddle. This is done via the new tool called "Create a
>> Recovery Disk" which is Redmondspeak for saying "We are giving you Win RE
>> that you would have had if we had not forced almost all of our OEM Named
>> Partners into not sending you one except Dell who bucked us this time
>> around with Vista and their new pcs." There is a screenshot of it in the
>> link below. I'd say to MSFT---it's about time. Why didn't you release
>> this file to all people who purchased a legit Vista when it RTM'd nearly
>> a year ago, that Bill Gates recently crowed about???
>>
>> Features in Vista SP1 (Build No. 6001.16549 of Vista)
>> [url]http://www.apcmag.com/6929/vista_sp1_in_depth[/url]
>>
>> If you're a Dude buyin' a Dell, Dell says explicitly that you be gettin'
>> a Vista OS DVD (with Win RE on it that MSFT is rumored to be giving you
>> soon in Vista SP1)--this is a good move on the part of Dell but
>> unfortunately Greedy MSFT and Greedy 300 other OEM Named partners have
>> continued to chicken out in this reguard denying an OS DVD to the
>> customers who make them very rich. I think that's the gold standard for
>> how concerned MSFT is for their end users who don't have enterprise means
>> of installing Win RE. However, in a pang of conscience moving in the
>> right direction many reports say that Vista SP1 will have the ability for
>> anyone to install Win RE.
>>
>> I would like to point out though if you're a dude buyin' a Dell as I have
>> about 50 times on this group that Dell says they are providing a Vista
>> DVD and if you're spending several hundred/a thousand dollars for a box
>> from them I'd sure ask them to send one.
>>
>> If you need some amunition before you pay them, here it is. Here's Dell
>> saying they are shipping a Vista DVD with each and every Dell box: (in
>> defiance of the greedy company called MSFT who makes over a hundred bucks
>> for Vista preinstalls) and had the idea before putting it in Vista SP1
>> that they would deprive their end users in the millions of Win RE in
>> Vista.
>>
>> [url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx[/url]
>>
>> If I am reading correctly this says:
>>
>> "Other users have expressed concern about not having the operating system
>> reinstallation CD when they need it...
>>
>> Update: Thanks to Direct2Dell reader Steven and a couple of Dell
>> employees for pointing out a mistake I made in my original post. When I
>> wrote this, the OS media was listed as an option in the configurator for
>> $0. I mis-read the number, and for that mistake, I apologize. Also,
>> though this been in the works for some time before now, it's now
>> official. For U.S. consumer and small business customers, all systems
>> will now ship with an operating system disc. This change will take effect
>> in Europe by later next month. In Asia, things are unchanged—we've always
>> shipped OS discs with systems there."
>>
>> And at
>>
>> Lionel Menchaca, Digital Media Manager said:
>>
>> [url]http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2006/10/17/3132.aspx#3187[/url]
>>
>> Update: Good news—just confirmed with software folks that the PC Restore
>> utility will remain intact. All Dimension and Inspiron systems will now
>> come with the OS disc and the PC Restore utility.
>>
>>
>> October 19, 2006 10:20 PM
>>
>> Happy Dual Booting Andy, and call Dell and make sure they send you an OS
>> DVD regardless of the fact they are making Win RE available as they
>> should have long ago in Vista SP1.
>>
>> [url]http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_install_04.asp[/url]
>>
>> CH
>>
>>
>>
>> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
>> news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=darkred]
>>> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
>>> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to
>>> know is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact
>>> and just chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think
>>> they call it dual booting isn't it?
>>>
>>> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
>>> if I can avoid it to do this.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Andy.
>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

"Chad Harris" <vistaneedsmuchowork.net> wrote in message
news:%23H6V9Qg3HHA.2312@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
> What you want to do is possible, although it's always strongly advisable
> in setting up a dual boot to install the older OS (XP) *first. I consider
> the restore point problem that SS mentions a very minor one, because you
> can easily shortcut from the Vista desktop to the XP desktop (with full
> access to your files and folders) by typing
> XP Drive\Documents and Settings\Andy's XP Profile\Desktop and dragging a
> shortcut from the address bar of that folder to your Vista desktop. That
> makes it rare for me to have to go to the XP via a boot to it although I
> do it once in a while just to check that the AV program (One Care in my
> case) and other things are humming along.[/color]


Huh? What has this desktop shorcut business got to do with XP wiping out
Vista's System Restore and Volume Shadow Copy data?

ss.

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
> dual booting isn't it?
>
> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
> if I can avoid it to do this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Andy.
>[/color]


Andy, as usual here you have several answers and lots of the political
issues attached to any purchase you make but Dell's that I have bought and
friends have received in the last year have all been OK.

You did not say if you were to buy laptop or desktop but either way you will
get a full restore CD included. You have the choice at Dell to have XP or
Vista pre loaded. Because of the price differences I would have Vista.

Rather than disrupt in anyway the installation of the original Vista
system, because of warrantee considerations, I would think about a second
hard drive for the XP and maybe go for the cheaper option now that XP will
be available at greatly reduced prices. If you get a laptop a USB hard drive
would do the job.






--
Ian

With patience there is always a way.

Please Reply to Newsgroup so all can read.
Requests for assistance by email can not and will be deleted.

"Ian Betts" <ian.betts******.com> wrote in message
news:09BE91A3-D8AA-4F23-A459-DA24F77096C9@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
>
>
> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=green]
>> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
>> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to know
>> is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact and just
>> chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think they call it
>> dual booting isn't it?
>>
>> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
>> if I can avoid it to do this.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Andy.
>>[/color]
>
>
> Andy, as usual here you have several answers and lots of the political
> issues attached to any purchase you make but Dell's that I have bought and
> friends have received in the last year have all been OK.
>
> You did not say if you were to buy laptop or desktop but either way you
> will get a full restore CD included. You have the choice at Dell to have
> XP or Vista pre loaded. Because of the price differences I would have
> Vista.
>
> Rather than disrupt in anyway the installation of the original Vista
> system, because of warrantee considerations, I would think about a second
> hard drive for the XP and maybe go for the cheaper option now that XP will
> be available at greatly reduced prices. If you get a laptop a USB hard
> drive would do the job.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian
>
> With patience there is always a way.
>
> Please Reply to Newsgroup so all can read.
> Requests for assistance by email can not and will be deleted.[/color]


I really have a feeling the new Dell PC will not have a full restore CD
included. In the US you may very well get a full restore CD included but I
reside in Ireland, and in the UK & Ireland (and the rest of Europe I think)
for the last 2 years anyway no full restore CD are included on the Dell PC's
now (please correct me if I am wrong though) Dell wanting the customer to
either use System Restore to recover their PC or the OS in the hidden
Partition on the Hard drive. There was an option once on the XP ones where
you could pay an extra 6.50 Euro for a WinXP recovery CD (OEM type) at the
time of ordering your new PC from Dell but now that option seems to have
gone now. Pity because for the extra 6.50 and getting the recovery CD with
your system was well worth paying the extra for. I don't like this system
what they have now about it being on the partitions hard drive because what
happens if you want to reinstall windows and the hard drive or its
partitions seems to be corrupt or wont read you are up the swanney river!

Andy.

"Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
news:fa44qf$ffq$1@news.datemas.de...[color=blue]
>
> "Ian Betts" <ian.betts******.com> wrote in message
> news:09BE91A3-D8AA-4F23-A459-DA24F77096C9@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>>
>>
>> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
>> news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...[color=darkred]
>>> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
>>> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to
>>> know is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact
>>> and just chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think
>>> they call it dual booting isn't it?
>>>
>>> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard drive
>>> if I can avoid it to do this.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Andy.
>>>[/color]
>>
>>
>> Andy, as usual here you have several answers and lots of the political
>> issues attached to any purchase you make but Dell's that I have bought
>> and friends have received in the last year have all been OK.
>>
>> You did not say if you were to buy laptop or desktop but either way you
>> will get a full restore CD included. You have the choice at Dell to have
>> XP or Vista pre loaded. Because of the price differences I would have
>> Vista.
>>
>> Rather than disrupt in anyway the installation of the original Vista
>> system, because of warrantee considerations, I would think about a second
>> hard drive for the XP and maybe go for the cheaper option now that XP
>> will be available at greatly reduced prices. If you get a laptop a USB
>> hard drive would do the job.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ian
>>
>> With patience there is always a way.
>>
>> Please Reply to Newsgroup so all can read.
>> Requests for assistance by email can not and will be deleted.[/color]
>
>
> I really have a feeling the new Dell PC will not have a full restore CD
> included. In the US you may very well get a full restore CD included but I
> reside in Ireland, and in the UK & Ireland (and the rest of Europe I
> think) for the last 2 years anyway no full restore CD are included on the
> Dell PC's now (please correct me if I am wrong though)[/color]

I got a Dell E520 in late April and it came with
a Reinstallation DVD Vista HP32bit.

I used it immediately to rebuild the system from
ground zero with no crapware and the system runs
really well.

"Julian" <Julianlzb87******.com> wrote in message
news:Oosy%23XN4HHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
>
>
> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
> news:fa44qf$ffq$1@news.datemas.de...[color=green]
>>
>> "Ian Betts" <ian.betts******.com> wrote in message
>> news:09BE91A3-D8AA-4F23-A459-DA24F77096C9@microsoft.com...[color=darkred]
>>>
>>>
>>> "Andy" <andy@indigo.ie> wrote in message
>>> news:f9qk76$19c$1@news.datemas.de...
>>>> Will be getting a new Dell PC soon with Windows Vista preloaded on it
>>>> (Doubt if it will come with a Vista installation CD). What I want to
>>>> know is if I can easily install Windows XP and leave the Vista intact
>>>> and just chose at startup of PC whether to use Vista or XP? - I think
>>>> they call it dual booting isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> But I don't really want to go formatting and partitioning the hard
>>>> drive if I can avoid it to do this.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Andy.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Andy, as usual here you have several answers and lots of the political
>>> issues attached to any purchase you make but Dell's that I have bought
>>> and friends have received in the last year have all been OK.
>>>
>>> You did not say if you were to buy laptop or desktop but either way you
>>> will get a full restore CD included. You have the choice at Dell to have
>>> XP or Vista pre loaded. Because of the price differences I would have
>>> Vista.
>>>
>>> Rather than disrupt in anyway the installation of the original Vista
>>> system, because of warrantee considerations, I would think about a
>>> second hard drive for the XP and maybe go for the cheaper option now
>>> that XP will be available at greatly reduced prices. If you get a laptop
>>> a USB hard drive would do the job.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> With patience there is always a way.
>>>
>>> Please Reply to Newsgroup so all can read.
>>> Requests for assistance by email can not and will be deleted.[/color]
>>
>>
>> I really have a feeling the new Dell PC will not have a full restore CD
>> included. In the US you may very well get a full restore CD included but
>> I reside in Ireland, and in the UK & Ireland (and the rest of Europe I
>> think) for the last 2 years anyway no full restore CD are included on the
>> Dell PC's now (please correct me if I am wrong though)[/color]
>
> I got a Dell E520 in late April and it came with
> a Reinstallation DVD Vista HP32bit.
>
> I used it immediately to rebuild the system from
> ground zero with no crapware and the system runs
> really well.[/color]

Yes, but where is your location? as I say I thought in Europe market they
(Dell) don't supply the OS on CD any more.

On a new Dell PC I would just remove Norton then run the symnrt removal
tool, then I would uninstall the McAfee stuff and use the McAfee MCPR or
whatever the removal tool is called and just uninstall the google or yahoo
toolbar/desktop search rather than go to all the trouble of wiping the HD
and reloading the OS just to remove the crapware.

Funny Enough I went for the Dell Vostro because they said there was no
unwanted programmes - apparently they 'listened to their customers comments'
who said they didn't want unwanted software loaded. First thing I did was
checked the confirmation of my order after it was placed - guess what is
included
on there? A 30 Day Trial of McAfee !!

Andy.