Friday night I bought my computer after work, seeing the ad at Futureshop I
had to have it. I spent the weekend playing around on it seeing what it can
do. Although it is a huge upgrade from my Dell Inspiron P3 866/40G/512M/16MB
video, to me it is starting to seen like a disappointment. Not because of
the hardware, the remote control, built in cam, DVD burner and things are
sweet, but the OS is starting to look like bloatware and is not what I
thought it would be at all. Maybe that stupid score system has me less
excited but that's what it did.... seems to happen a lot when I have any
involvement with M$.

.... guess I'll just wait till SP2 or maybe 3 comes out :) .... remember the
excitement when XP came out!!

--

HP Pavilion V9000 Entertainment Laptop
Vista Home Premium/dual core 1.8/160GB/2GB ram/335MB Graphic/17" widescreen
.... and a whole wack of bells and whistles :) SWEET!!

Reach for the top of the Windows Experience Index
[url]http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/60d9b045-e2fe-4f7a-9111-e2f2222851991033.mspx[/url]

--
Carey Frisch
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User

Paul


The only thing I remember from the XP newsgroups when it was first released
was "XP SUCKS". Do a google search for that term dated from Oct 2001 forward
and you'll see what I mean.

--

Ronnie Vernon
Microsoft MVP
Windows Shell/User


"Paul" <p@p.com> wrote in message
news:uEpYGYS3HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Friday night I bought my computer after work, seeing the ad at Futureshop
> I had to have it. I spent the weekend playing around on it seeing what it
> can do. Although it is a huge upgrade from my Dell Inspiron P3
> 866/40G/512M/16MB video, to me it is starting to seen like a
> disappointment. Not because of the hardware, the remote control, built in
> cam, DVD burner and things are sweet, but the OS is starting to look like
> bloatware and is not what I thought it would be at all. Maybe that stupid
> score system has me less excited but that's what it did.... seems to
> happen a lot when I have any involvement with M$.
>
> ... guess I'll just wait till SP2 or maybe 3 comes out :) .... remember
> the excitement when XP came out!!
>
> --
>
> HP Pavilion V9000 Entertainment Laptop
> Vista Home Premium/dual core 1.8/160GB/2GB ram/335MB Graphic/17"
> widescreen
> ... and a whole wack of bells and whistles :) SWEET!![/color]

On Sun, 12 Aug 2007 19:32:03 -0700, "Ronnie Vernon MVP"
<rv@invalid.org> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Paul
>
>
>The only thing I remember from the XP newsgroups when it was first released
>was "XP SUCKS". Do a google search for that term dated from Oct 2001 forward
>and you'll see what I mean.[/color]


Some things never change. All new versions of Windows have always
sucked because Microsoft has always expected their customers to beta
test their "final" release for them so they can clean it up and put
what they learned from the public beta testing into SP1.

Paul

I remember people saying that they couldn't find anything, that they didn't
like the look of it, that their old printer or scanner wouldn't work, that
some of their old games were freezing on screen..

Upgraders complained that it needed too much memory, and that their video
cards and peripherals were not supported, that it filled up their 6gb
drive...

People were asking how they could put Win 98 back because it was faster and
they felt that they had more control over it.. that XP sucked..

OEMs were supplying machines that could only just handle XP up until the end
of 2003, mainly to keep the price down and catch as many buyers as they
could..

People were walking out of stores with complete systems only in as much as
they had bought printers, keyboards, webcams and joysticks along with the
main bits.. unfortunately, many of the driver CDs contained drivers up to
Win 2000, and some of the stuff was never going to work unless they visited
websites to get XP drivers which may or may not be there..

We have heard all of the 'Vista' complaints before..


"Paul" <p@p.com> wrote in message
news:uEpYGYS3HHA.1204@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Friday night I bought my computer after work, seeing the ad at Futureshop
> I had to have it. I spent the weekend playing around on it seeing what it
> can do. Although it is a huge upgrade from my Dell Inspiron P3
> 866/40G/512M/16MB video, to me it is starting to seen like a
> disappointment. Not because of the hardware, the remote control, built in
> cam, DVD burner and things are sweet, but the OS is starting to look like
> bloatware and is not what I thought it would be at all. Maybe that stupid
> score system has me less excited but that's what it did.... seems to
> happen a lot when I have any involvement with M$.
>
> ... guess I'll just wait till SP2 or maybe 3 comes out :) .... remember
> the excitement when XP came out!!
>
> --
>
> HP Pavilion V9000 Entertainment Laptop
> Vista Home Premium/dual core 1.8/160GB/2GB ram/335MB Graphic/17"
> widescreen
> ... and a whole wack of bells and whistles :) SWEET!![/color]

--


Mike Hall
MS MVP Windows Shell/User
[url]http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/[/url]

Mike Hall - MVP wrote:[color=blue]
> Paul
>
> I remember people saying that they couldn't find anything, that they
> didn't like the look of it, that their old printer or scanner wouldn't
> work, that some of their old games were freezing on screen..
>
> Upgraders complained that it needed too much memory, and that their
> video cards and peripherals were not supported, that it filled up their
> 6gb drive...
>
> People were asking how they could put Win 98 back because it was faster
> and they felt that they had more control over it.. that XP sucked..
>
> OEMs were supplying machines that could only just handle XP up until the
> end of 2003, mainly to keep the price down and catch as many buyers as
> they could..
>
> People were walking out of stores with complete systems only in as much
> as they had bought printers, keyboards, webcams and joysticks along with
> the main bits.. unfortunately, many of the driver CDs contained drivers
> up to Win 2000, and some of the stuff was never going to work unless
> they visited websites to get XP drivers which may or may not be there..
>
> We have heard all of the 'Vista' complaints before..[/color]


Isn't that all the more reason to ship a functional product this time? I
have some of the best hardware available so don't blame the hardware
manufacturers for everything. Sure, drivers can be a nuisance but the
fact is nobody is going to invest time and money writing drivers to
interface hardware to an OS that isn't written yet, and they obviously
hadn't finished writing Vista when they released it.

You complain about people's reaction on changing from 98 to XP but let
us not forget even Microsoft quit supporting XP when SP1 came out, why?
Because SP1 was a complete re-write of a POS released as an OS. I went
from 98SE to W2000 and there were no issues where things had been moved
for the hell of it, just some new stuff that wasn't there before. From
2000 to XP there was little change except XP seemed leaner and cleaner,
until that is the security problems surfaced and SP1 was released which
replaced just about everything in XP with a more bloated but more stable
version.

So your suggestion that this is a typical scenario is actually
reasonable, not because it is the right way but because it is the
Microsoft way with consumer products, release a half assed OS that's
cobbled together, expect people to use it and endorse it and then
release the proper thing a year later. XP now has the best support or
all for hardware, but that was not the case with pre SP1 and for the
same reason Vista is having problems. Please do NOT persist with this
"Users are stupid and do not understand" garbage, would you expect
people to be happy buying a car they cannot drive because the lights
don't work and be fobbed off with excuses that the fault is with the guy
who fitted the wheels?

W2000 was a huge leap forward over 98, and XP despite it problems was
less of a leap forward but a major feat in retaining compatibility.
Vista is neither, it is more of a leap into nowhere. The marketing
method was flawed, if you think ordinary users shouldn't be using it
because they will complain then you shouldn't try to push it onto them,
and you obviously don't think ordinary users can handle it because you
said as much above.

On Aug 12, 9:32 pm, "Ronnie Vernon MVP" <r...@invalid.org> wrote:[color=blue]
> Paul
>
> The only thing I remember from the XP newsgroups when it was first released
> was "XP SUCKS". Do a google search for that term dated from Oct 2001 forward
> and you'll see what I mean.
>[/color]
The way I remember it is that XP actually *did* suck back then. It
wasn't only people saying it... :)

The core Vista OS (kernel, memory management etc.) is actually better
than XP was when it first came out. The problem in Vista is all the
babysitter stuff tham makes it impossible to work. I have gotten rid
of most of it, so now it works....sorta....and it looks great! :)

//ceed-o-rama

"ceed" <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net> wrote in message
news:1187063668.447160.102790@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...[color=blue]
> On Aug 12, 9:32 pm, "Ronnie Vernon MVP" <r...@invalid.org> wrote:[color=green]
>> Paul
>>
>> The only thing I remember from the XP newsgroups when it was first
>> released
>> was "XP SUCKS". Do a google search for that term dated from Oct 2001
>> forward
>> and you'll see what I mean.
>>[/color]
> The way I remember it is that XP actually *did* suck back then. It
> wasn't only people saying it... :)
>
> The core Vista OS (kernel, memory management etc.) is actually better
> than XP was when it first came out. The problem in Vista is all the
> babysitter stuff tham makes it impossible to work. I have gotten rid
> of most of it, so now it works....sorta....and it looks great! :)[/color]

Notice that everyone that comes in here saying that win** sucks
tells us that we should all run Linux instead? Or go back to XP?
It's easy when the people who say that have no commitment.

Yeah, XP is about done. Linux is even getting better than it
used to be as far as hardware support is concerned, Even
apple is easier, because they write one OS for one specific
type of hardware.

MS, OTOH, writes for just about everything, and everyone.
If the guys who wrote Linux had to do it all themselves, it
never would have gotten to where it is, and no one would have
supported it, much less made money packaging it for money
while the people who actually do it get nothing.

Yeah, Vista is buggy. NOT. I've had it for less than a week
and it does everything better than XP did, or Liunx when I had
that. If the people who complained about it lurked here for a
few days they might learn enough to fix the 3 or 4 settings
that were causing problems. If they were polite instead of rude
they might learn something. Something more than the manners
their momma should have taught them. This is a Microsoft
group, after all.

If you want to praise Linux, go do it in the Linux group.
Same same XP or mac. In the meantime, I can safely say that
Vista is by far the best OS MS has come out with yet. And
because it's still in it's infancy, we can expect even more.

Count me as one satisfied customer.

Curtis

Curtis D. Levin wrote:[color=blue]
> "ceed" <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net> wrote in message
> news:1187063668.447160.102790@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> On Aug 12, 9:32 pm, "Ronnie Vernon MVP" <r...@invalid.org> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> The only thing I remember from the XP newsgroups when it was first
>>> released
>>> was "XP SUCKS". Do a google search for that term dated from Oct 2001
>>> forward
>>> and you'll see what I mean.
>>>[/color]
>> The way I remember it is that XP actually *did* suck back then. It
>> wasn't only people saying it... :)
>>
>> The core Vista OS (kernel, memory management etc.) is actually better
>> than XP was when it first came out. The problem in Vista is all the
>> babysitter stuff tham makes it impossible to work. I have gotten rid
>> of most of it, so now it works....sorta....and it looks great! :)[/color]
>
> Notice that everyone that comes in here saying that win** sucks
> tells us that we should all run Linux instead? Or go back to XP?
> It's easy when the people who say that have no commitment.
>
> Yeah, XP is about done. Linux is even getting better than it
> used to be as far as hardware support is concerned, Even
> apple is easier, because they write one OS for one specific
> type of hardware.
>
> MS, OTOH, writes for just about everything, and everyone.
> If the guys who wrote Linux had to do it all themselves, it
> never would have gotten to where it is, and no one would have
> supported it, much less made money packaging it for money
> while the people who actually do it get nothing.
>
> Yeah, Vista is buggy. NOT. I've had it for less than a week
> and it does everything better than XP did, or Liunx when I had
> that. If the people who complained about it lurked here for a
> few days they might learn enough to fix the 3 or 4 settings
> that were causing problems. If they were polite instead of rude
> they might learn something. Something more than the manners
> their momma should have taught them. This is a Microsoft
> group, after all.
>
> If you want to praise Linux, go do it in the Linux group.
> Same same XP or mac. In the meantime, I can safely say that
> Vista is by far the best OS MS has come out with yet. And
> because it's still in it's infancy, we can expect even more.
>
> Count me as one satisfied customer.
>
> Curtis
>[/color]

Well there's one at least :)

Curtis D. Levin wrote:[color=blue]
> "ceed" <ceed.spameater@dysthe.net> wrote in message
> news:1187063668.447160.102790@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...[color=green]
>> On Aug 12, 9:32 pm, "Ronnie Vernon MVP" <r...@invalid.org> wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> The only thing I remember from the XP newsgroups when it was first
>>> released
>>> was "XP SUCKS". Do a google search for that term dated from Oct 2001
>>> forward
>>> and you'll see what I mean.
>>>[/color]
>> The way I remember it is that XP actually *did* suck back then. It
>> wasn't only people saying it... :)
>>
>> The core Vista OS (kernel, memory management etc.) is actually better
>> than XP was when it first came out. The problem in Vista is all the
>> babysitter stuff tham makes it impossible to work. I have gotten rid
>> of most of it, so now it works....sorta....and it looks great! :)[/color]
>
> Notice that everyone that comes in here saying that win** sucks
> tells us that we should all run Linux instead? Or go back to XP?
> It's easy when the people who say that have no commitment.
>
> Yeah, XP is about done. Linux is even getting better than it
> used to be as far as hardware support is concerned, Even
> apple is easier, because they write one OS for one specific
> type of hardware.
>
> MS, OTOH, writes for just about everything, and everyone.
> If the guys who wrote Linux had to do it all themselves, it
> never would have gotten to where it is, and no one would have
> supported it, much less made money packaging it for money
> while the people who actually do it get nothing.
>
> Yeah, Vista is buggy. NOT. I've had it for less than a week
> and it does everything better than XP did, or Liunx when I had
> that. If the people who complained about it lurked here for a
> few days they might learn enough to fix the 3 or 4 settings
> that were causing problems. If they were polite instead of rude
> they might learn something. Something more than the manners
> their momma should have taught them. This is a Microsoft
> group, after all.
>
> If you want to praise Linux, go do it in the Linux group.
> Same same XP or mac. In the meantime, I can safely say that
> Vista is by far the best OS MS has come out with yet. And
> because it's still in it's infancy, we can expect even more.
>
> Count me as one satisfied customer.
>
> Curtis
>
>
>
>[/color]


On a more serious note I presume you have heard the phrase "Constructive
Criticism" which some of those you criticize are intending to pursue?

On some issues MS have fallen, or are about to fall on their ass. This
affects the jobs of literally thousands of people, pretty much all over
the world. Even criticism that is not "Intended" to be constructive can
be constructive viewed in the proper light, whereas blandly stating that
everything is wonderful when it isn't is really contributing to a
problem in the future.

Now come back in a few weeks when you have actually "Used" Vista for
business or something important and let us know how it went. You don't
forgive Chrysler for selling you a car that's "Still in it's infancy" if
you need it for work, maybe you do if you are viewing the deal from an
enthusiast's point of view and want to be a test driver.

In article <O789CWt3HHA.4436@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>,
Charlie Tame <charlie@tames.net> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Count me as one satisfied customer.
> >
> > Curtis
> >[/color]
>
> Well there's one at least :)[/color]

Here's another one. Ultimate on 1 desktop, Home Premium on 1 laptop (so
far).

Considering Vista is selling between 10 and 15 million copies a month,
there must be lots of satisfied - and dissatisfied - customers.

Of course, we only see the dissatisfied ones here. Since there aren't
13 million new users posting here each month, I think reasonable people
can draw their own conclusions.

The unreasonable, of course, will chime in with their usual rants.

Mike