"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns9977B17C6FE85thisnthatadelphianet@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> "Lang Murphy" <lang_murphy********.com> wrote in
> news:OczfScOzHHA.464@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>[color=green]
>> I wrote a bunch of replies yesterday... for some reason, they didn't
>> make it out of my outbox... just sent them now... I was not ignoring
>> the first 10 or so responses... appears there are a few more now...
>>
>> Lang[/color]
>
> I never did get that whole move to outbox and send when I check thing.
>
> When I click send, I want it to send !! Now !!
>[/color]


It usually does... I use two laptops everyday... one upstairs and one
downstairs... and, for some reason, the downstairs box sometimes has
problems moving stuff out of the outbox. And on other days? No problem. Not
sure what the issue is... not worrying about it too much right now, though.
;-)

Lang

"Snuff" <snuffin@all2worry4.com> wrote in message
news:jdfca39tbnk3dqchttlbl3ap3mvutj4dba@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 02:23:05 -0400, "Lang Murphy"
> <lang_murphy********.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>I've said it many time before, and I'll say it again... nix ain't ready
>>for
>>"Joe Normal."
>>
>>Sorry, I forget the person who suggested I try PCLinuxOS, and, that said,
>>I
>>d/l'd it today and installed it on a desktop. (Tried installing it on a
>>laptop with a wireless NIC, but, uh, no go?)
>>
>>So I installed PCLOS, as it's called, on a desktop. Install went OK. Got
>>to
>>the desktop fine. Where's the Network icon? None. How does one access the
>>local network? Ah, open "My Computer". Heh, heh, heh... then open "Remote
>>Places." Then open "Local Network", only to receive the msg "The Lisa
>>daemon
>>does not appear to be running. In order to use the LAN browser, the Lisa
>>daemon must be installed and activated by the system administrator."
>>
>>Uh, OK... where does one go from here? (NOT looking for answers from nix
>>folks, it's a rhetorical question.)
>>
>>Is it so hard to put a "Network" icon on the desktop?
>>
>>Is it so hard to have that functionality be transparent to the user? Is
>>the
>>"Joe Normal" user going to know how to log on as administrator and install
>>and activate the Lisa daemon? Uh, no?
>>
>>OK... this may appear to be an attack on nix... it's not, believe me. Were
>>one to have the time to determine how to install and activate the Lisa
>>daemon... well, no issue, right? One can figure it out -eventually-,
>>right?
>>
>>And, of course, I'm not saying that Vista is "issue free." That said...
>>when
>>I install Vista, I get a "Network" icon on the desktop that takes me right
>>to the stuff I'm tryng to access. No "install Lisa daemon" stuff...
>>
>>So, yeah, Vista's not "issue free." We all know it, and I'd be a dope to
>>claim otherwise.
>>
>>And I -am- most interested in trying different nix distros; ones that
>>might
>>be considered "Joe Normal" friendly.
>>
>>Have yet to discover -that- nix distro.
>>
>>And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>>
>>Lang[/color]
> Is this not just a pitiful attempt at trolling? To troll you need to
> find a pro-Linux newsgroup and tell them that there OS of choice is no
> good.
>
> Here, you are dealing with people who are interested in WINDOWS so
> they really don't give a rat's backside about your Linux
> experience...or do you lack friends and try to make some by getting
> them to empathise with you?
>
> It's an OS and not a religion or lifestyle choice. If you are too
> daft to figure it out, that is your problem. I was not and managed
> to...but I am back with Windows for now because I was interested in it
> and my work requirements are met by it. I have XP Pro in my office
> which is alright when it is not installing updates, telling me that I
> need to reboot, crashing programs, crashing itself and possible
> getting a virus. At home I have Vista with which I get on just fine
> for the most part.
>
> Still use a Mac for some things. Sometimes miss Linux and fire up a
> live CD just to refresh my memory. Does that make me a bad or
> inadequate person?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Snuff[/color]


I can only assume you don't read this ng frequently. And I -never- said
PCLinuxOS was no good. I think, perhaps, you need to reread the original
post.

Lang

I didn't spend too much time in here in the past few days and somehow I
missed your reply.
[color=blue]
> Sorry, but I don't see the connection between the truisms above and Ubuntu
> not being ready for the average computer user.[/color]

I never said it is not ready for desktop OS, instead, my point is that it is
not ready for the mass adoption or to the degree that you are hoping for
based on the business model that Linux community (and its supporters) has
been doing in the past few years.

I meant to write a longer post but decided to drop it since this is not the
place for doing it.

But I try to highlight some points and hope you can think about it:

(1) You and many others are limiting your thinking to the product and
technologies, although both are important, but god I hope you could
understand that they are not enough for the mass adoption of any product.

(2) In every purchase decision, there are buyers, users, and influencers,
and those can be the same or totally different persons. You need to educate
each of them to comprehend the benefits (in different terms) so their
collective decision will be coherent and consistent.

Back to my examples -
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Techies, hobbyists, and enthusiasts are served as opninon leaders in the
>> ball game.[/color][/color]

This is part of MS strategies so when a regular user consults with one of
these people, they will say differently. But this is just an example of
influencers and there are more for other stakeholders, just get the picture,
ok?

(3) Computer is a solution, computer is a solution, computer is a solution,
and OS is part of solution, CPU is part of solution, Office is part of
solution, graphic card is part of solution, fan is part of solution, power
supply is part of solution, Adobe CS3 is part of solution, AutoCAD is part
of solution, and so on and so on. Regular people use solutions instead of
parts. Period.

In my view (which is more than just a personal opinion), MS is a tech
company founded by a computer nerd but had not been acting like one (until
in recent years), and that's why it could succeed and not Apple nor Nix
family. It spent tremendous efforts on understanding users and framing its
business model and strategies so that it could better accepted by the
market. Technology has never been its primary strength; it is how it
understands what users and decision makers would think and care about.

As a user, I resent many of its recent practices and product designs. As a
strategist, I can fully comprehend and understand although I won't not take
the same actions.

If you failed to recognize and appreciate your competitor's success, you are
doomed to fail.

Final notes: Heard of Minitel? Low cost solution for simple
Internet-related tasks and personal stuffs are always there, and Minitel was
a big success (in France and part of Europe) at its time but eventually
failed because it couldn't adopt WWW. In any case, the needs for a low cost
solution for simple tasks are always there and Linux needs to think about
how to pack the solution. Dell is a good start but not enough. And forget
about the US market. No company can ever survive when it lost its home
market which is its cash cow, so if you wish to compete in the home market,
you are looking for suicide.

Just think about it, ok? Don't bother to reply and I am not here to debate.



"Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:e0DzJtGzHHA.1484@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> xfile wrote:[color=green]
>> Microsoft deliveries its OS mainly through OEM's and many of its
>> products, e.g. Office, is part of the solution or enhanced user
>> experience (e.g. games and hardware) of using the computers.
>>
>> Techies, hobbyists, and enthusiasts are served as opninon leaders in the
>> ball game.
>>
>> Promotions and educational materials are prepared sepcifically for
>> business and technical professionals as well as for average users.
>>
>> At early stage, it partnershiped with Intel (not officially) so that it
>> would gain supports from the most critical hardware component and thus we
>> have this Wintel term.
>>
>> Apple, known by everyone, deliveries the solution with everything built
>> by itself and focus on nice segments.
>>
>> By the way, to be a nich segment player is not a bad thing. Many nice
>> products only serve nich segments for highly specialized people with
>> special tastes and needs, and we are also a nice player.
>>
>> But if you want to go for the mass market, do it accordinly.
>>
>> Finally, it is three of you that helped the user to install and configure
>> the system so that they could enjoy it and that makes you similar to an
>> OEM or system builder.
>>
>> Which part doesn't make sense? It is your or Linux's business model
>> doesn't make any sense.[/color]
>
> Sorry, but I don't see the connection between the truisms above and Ubuntu
> not being ready for the average computer user.
>
> Alias[color=green]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>> news:Oseec1FzHHA.5380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> xfile wrote:
>>>> You are nothing close to an average user so does your friend and
>>>> Stephan Rose, and in all cases, you guys are the OEM for the user.
>>>>
>>>> Just to be clear about one thing, I have nothing to against Linux and
>>>> nowhere did I ever say nor imply that Linux is not a good OS.
>>>>
>>>> Which part of mainstream users want to have a "solution" that you don't
>>>> understand?
>>>>
>>>> MS and Apple all do that with different ways and what makes you think
>>>> that you can fight against consumers?
>>>>
>>>> I have a term reserved for people like you - technical arrogance.
>>> You're not making any sense.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>> news:uc$wJRFzHHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> xfile wrote:
>>>>>> Which part? And can you provide "specific" comments on it?
>>>>> "Linux are for techies"
>>>>>
>>>>> I installed Ubuntu for a 74 year old lady who is no techie. She's very
>>>>> happy with it and hasn't had a problem in over six months. With XP,
>>>>> she was calling every week to have all the viruses and malware
>>>>> removed. Last week, a friend installed it for a family with a six year
>>>>> old and an eight year old. They love it and are not, by any stretch of
>>>>> the imagination, techies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Face it, Linux is ready for the general public. I know it and all the
>>>>> Ubuntu and other flavors of Linux knows it and Microsoft knows it
>>>>> (patents and all that jazz). Why don't the MS fanboys and girls know
>>>>> it?
>>>>>
>>>>> The above also counters your theory that the "mainstream public"
>>>>> doesn't want to switch to a new OS.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:uq0upx5yHHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>> xfile wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In addition, mainstream users buy computers as a "solution" just
>>>>>>>> like other products, and they don't want nor have the interest to
>>>>>>>> do DIY needless to say to install a new OS or switch to a new OS.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linux are for techies because they never want to userstand
>>>>>>>> mainsteam users, and they have no idea about what is "solution" or
>>>>>>>> "offer". Over years, they have been told countless times but they
>>>>>>>> are too proud to take any others' advises, and yet, they blame why
>>>>>>>> people don't appreciate their works. LOL.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Using automobiles as an example, they are sales people for auto
>>>>>>>> accessories and parts, while the mainstream car owners want to buy
>>>>>>>> a finished car.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My two cents.
>>>>>>> Your sweeping generalizations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>>> "Lang Murphy" <lang_murphy********.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:330D72CD-8EAC-42BC-8144-3C11E57ADC52@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>>>> I've said it many time before, and I'll say it again... nix ain't
>>>>>>>>> ready for "Joe Normal."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I forget the person who suggested I try PCLinuxOS, and,
>>>>>>>>> that said, I d/l'd it today and installed it on a desktop. (Tried
>>>>>>>>> installing it on a laptop with a wireless NIC, but, uh, no go?)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I installed PCLOS, as it's called, on a desktop. Install went
>>>>>>>>> OK. Got to the desktop fine. Where's the Network icon? None. How
>>>>>>>>> does one access the local network? Ah, open "My Computer". Heh,
>>>>>>>>> heh, heh... then open "Remote Places." Then open "Local Network",
>>>>>>>>> only to receive the msg "The Lisa daemon does not appear to be
>>>>>>>>> running. In order to use the LAN browser, the Lisa daemon must be
>>>>>>>>> installed and activated by the system administrator."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Uh, OK... where does one go from here? (NOT looking for answers
>>>>>>>>> from nix folks, it's a rhetorical question.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it so hard to put a "Network" icon on the desktop?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is it so hard to have that functionality be transparent to the
>>>>>>>>> user? Is the "Joe Normal" user going to know how to log on as
>>>>>>>>> administrator and install and activate the Lisa daemon? Uh, no?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> OK... this may appear to be an attack on nix... it's not, believe
>>>>>>>>> me. Were one to have the time to determine how to install and
>>>>>>>>> activate the Lisa daemon... well, no issue, right? One can figure
>>>>>>>>> it out -eventually-, right?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, of course, I'm not saying that Vista is "issue free." That
>>>>>>>>> said... when I install Vista, I get a "Network" icon on the
>>>>>>>>> desktop that takes me right to the stuff I'm tryng to access. No
>>>>>>>>> "install Lisa daemon" stuff...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, yeah, Vista's not "issue free." We all know it, and I'd be a
>>>>>>>>> dope to claim otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And I -am- most interested in trying different nix distros; ones
>>>>>>>>> that might be considered "Joe Normal" friendly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have yet to discover -that- nix distro.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lang[/color]
>>[/color][/color]