Alias wrote:[color=blue]
> Frank wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Alias wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alias wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with most of this post. Like you said, time will tell and
>>>>> if MS somehow realizes that most people are honest and removes the
>>>>> WPA and WGA crap, it may not die a slow death.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your "take" on Vista while you "played" with it on a store computer
>>>> is that it's "XP SE"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My goodness, the man can read! Is there a full moon out in Virgina?
>>>
>>> Alias[/color]
>>
>>
>> Virgina...? You lost something in Virginia? You're fixated on
>> Virginia? You want to go to Virginia? Or is that simply a diversionary
>> tacit to change the subject matter that points out what a really
>> clueless person[/color]
>
>
> Your ISP is in Virgina. I assume you live near by.[/color]

It is? Hahaha...you don't know how to read a header do you? I couldn't
be farther away from Virginia unless I left the Continental limits of
the United States![color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> you are claiming playing with Vista in a store...don't make me laugh.[/color]
>
>
> You can laugh? Why would you doubt that? Stores want to sell Vista and
> they let potential customers try it out. Not only did the nice clerk let
> me try it out, he explained a lot of things about Vista that I might not
> have seen by myself. They don't do that in the USA?[/color]

Of course they have Vista loaded on in-store computers. They do not let
them connect to the Internet for obvious reasons which in my travels to
Europe, I have never seen them do in any store.
Also store computers, like most pre-loaded computers, don't come with
any really useful software.
In other words, the only real way to get a true feeling for Vista is to
load it, sit down and be productive with it. Something you've yet to do.

[color=blue]
> [url]www.elcorteingles.es[/url] has all the phone numbers you want, your lame
> attempt at trying to find out where I live notwithstanding.[/color]

You're afraid I'll come see you? A little paranoid huh?
What, or who are you so afraid of?
Who do you think you're hiding from?
Hahahah...sorry pal, I couldn't possibly care less about you or where
you live.
You're very unimportant to me.
Frank

In article <#7ZfI0HzHHA.4928@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl>,
Frank <fb@nospamer.cmn> wrote:
[color=blue][color=green]
> > Your ISP is in Virgina. I assume you live near by.[/color]
>
> It is? Hahaha...you don't know how to read a header do you? I couldn't
> be farther away from Virginia unless I left the Continental limits of
> the United States![/color]

Alias is clearly not too bright. He obviously did a WHOIS lookup on
your IP address, which is owned by Road Runner. The address is listed
as Herndon, VA.

Unfortunately for Alias, he's *not* smart enough to figure out what
socal.res.rr.com means. Yes, that's about as far away from Virginia as
you can get without leaving the US!

Note to Alias. The address of record of the owner of an IP address
doesn't always relate to the location of the poster currently using said
IP address.

Mike

"Mike" proved...[color=blue]
> Alias is clearly not too bright. He obviously did a WHOIS lookup on
> your IP address, which is owned by Road Runner. The address is listed
> as Herndon, VA.
>
> Unfortunately for Alias, he's *not* smart enough to figure out what
> socal.res.rr.com means. Yes, that's about as far away from Virginia as
> you can get without leaving the US!
>
> Note to Alias. The address of record of the owner of an IP address
> doesn't always relate to the location of the poster currently using said
> IP address.
>[/color]

Too funny. LMAO

Frank wrote:[color=blue]
> Alias wrote:[color=green]
>> Frank wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Alias wrote:
>>>
>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Alias wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with most of this post. Like you said, time will tell and
>>>>>> if MS somehow realizes that most people are honest and removes the
>>>>>> WPA and WGA crap, it may not die a slow death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your "take" on Vista while you "played" with it on a store computer
>>>>> is that it's "XP SE"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My goodness, the man can read! Is there a full moon out in Virgina?
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>>
>>> Virgina...? You lost something in Virginia? You're fixated on
>>> Virginia? You want to go to Virginia? Or is that simply a
>>> diversionary tacit to change the subject matter that points out what
>>> a really clueless person[/color]
>>
>>
>> Your ISP is in Virgina. I assume you live near by.[/color]
>
> It is? Hahaha...you don't know how to read a header do you? I couldn't
> be farther away from Virginia unless I left the Continental limits of
> the United States![/color]

Southern California, per chance?
[color=blue][color=green]
>>[color=darkred]
>>> you are claiming playing with Vista in a store...don't make me laugh.[/color]
>>
>>
>> You can laugh? Why would you doubt that? Stores want to sell Vista and
>> they let potential customers try it out. Not only did the nice clerk
>> let me try it out, he explained a lot of things about Vista that I
>> might not have seen by myself. They don't do that in the USA?[/color]
>
> Of course they have Vista loaded on in-store computers. They do not let
> them connect to the Internet for obvious reasons which in my travels to
> Europe, I have never seen them do in any store.
> Also store computers, like most pre-loaded computers, don't come with
> any really useful software.
> In other words, the only real way to get a true feeling for Vista is to
> load it, sit down and be productive with it. Something you've yet to do.[/color]

For long term use, yes. To check it out, no. Reading about others'
experiences is good research too.
[color=blue]
>
>[color=green]
>> [url]www.elcorteingles.es[/url] has all the phone numbers you want, your lame
>> attempt at trying to find out where I live notwithstanding.[/color]
>
> You're afraid I'll come see you? A little paranoid huh?
> What, or who are you so afraid of?
> Who do you think you're hiding from?
> Hahahah...sorry pal, I couldn't possibly care less about you or where
> you live.
> You're very unimportant to me.
> Frank[/color]

Then stop stalking me and stop asking. You won't do either as it's not
in your nature.

Alias

Alias wrote:
[color=blue]
> Then stop stalking me and stop asking. You won't do either as it's not
> in your nature.
>
> Alias[/color]

Already got my answer about the store you visited....hahaha...and you
have no idea what my nature is...you're not a even a good guesser.
I'm just waiting to see if you have any real character at all in you.
Though I can already guess at the answer to that question.
Frank

Alias,

My final thoughts and hope you can take it as a friendly advise:

If you have a strong feeling for Linux and Ubuntu, why don't you come up
Ubuntu-based solutions and start selling it to people around you and then
move to others?

Regular users don't like to go here and there to download components,
utilities, and applications so that they can come up a piece of solution,
and that's why we have some many different kinds of solution providers from
brand name OEM's to system builders to consultants, etc..

If you think MS screwed it up this time, take the opportunity by all means
instead of coming to here to insulting Windows users.

Trust me, if you can come up good value propositions, people will move but
OS by itself is hardly enough.

It takes 50+ years for Japanese car manufacturers to establish their brand
reputation, and since you are in Spain, I assume you know Zara who spent
nearly 30 years to become an international brand name, so does MS.

What I am trying to say is - it takes time and just take one step at a time.

Take care.




"Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
news:Oseec1FzHHA.5380@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> xfile wrote:[color=green]
>> You are nothing close to an average user so does your friend and Stephan
>> Rose, and in all cases, you guys are the OEM for the user.
>>
>> Just to be clear about one thing, I have nothing to against Linux and
>> nowhere did I ever say nor imply that Linux is not a good OS.
>>
>> Which part of mainstream users want to have a "solution" that you don't
>> understand?
>>
>> MS and Apple all do that with different ways and what makes you think
>> that you can fight against consumers?
>>
>> I have a term reserved for people like you - technical arrogance.[/color]
>
> You're not making any sense.
>
> Alias[color=green]
>>
>>
>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>> news:uc$wJRFzHHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...[color=darkred]
>>> xfile wrote:
>>>> Which part? And can you provide "specific" comments on it?
>>> "Linux are for techies"
>>>
>>> I installed Ubuntu for a 74 year old lady who is no techie. She's very
>>> happy with it and hasn't had a problem in over six months. With XP, she
>>> was calling every week to have all the viruses and malware removed. Last
>>> week, a friend installed it for a family with a six year old and an
>>> eight year old. They love it and are not, by any stretch of the
>>> imagination, techies.
>>>
>>> Face it, Linux is ready for the general public. I know it and all the
>>> Ubuntu and other flavors of Linux knows it and Microsoft knows it
>>> (patents and all that jazz). Why don't the MS fanboys and girls know it?
>>>
>>> The above also counters your theory that the "mainstream public" doesn't
>>> want to switch to a new OS.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>> news:uq0upx5yHHA.3916@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>> xfile wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In addition, mainstream users buy computers as a "solution" just like
>>>>>> other products, and they don't want nor have the interest to do DIY
>>>>>> needless to say to install a new OS or switch to a new OS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linux are for techies because they never want to userstand mainsteam
>>>>>> users, and they have no idea about what is "solution" or "offer".
>>>>>> Over years, they have been told countless times but they are too
>>>>>> proud to take any others' advises, and yet, they blame why people
>>>>>> don't appreciate their works. LOL.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using automobiles as an example, they are sales people for auto
>>>>>> accessories and parts, while the mainstream car owners want to buy a
>>>>>> finished car.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My two cents.
>>>>> Your sweeping generalizations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>>> "Lang Murphy" <lang_murphy********.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:330D72CD-8EAC-42BC-8144-3C11E57ADC52@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>> I've said it many time before, and I'll say it again... nix ain't
>>>>>>> ready for "Joe Normal."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, I forget the person who suggested I try PCLinuxOS, and, that
>>>>>>> said, I d/l'd it today and installed it on a desktop. (Tried
>>>>>>> installing it on a laptop with a wireless NIC, but, uh, no go?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I installed PCLOS, as it's called, on a desktop. Install went OK.
>>>>>>> Got to the desktop fine. Where's the Network icon? None. How does
>>>>>>> one access the local network? Ah, open "My Computer". Heh, heh,
>>>>>>> heh... then open "Remote Places." Then open "Local Network", only to
>>>>>>> receive the msg "The Lisa daemon does not appear to be running. In
>>>>>>> order to use the LAN browser, the Lisa daemon must be installed and
>>>>>>> activated by the system administrator."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uh, OK... where does one go from here? (NOT looking for answers from
>>>>>>> nix folks, it's a rhetorical question.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it so hard to put a "Network" icon on the desktop?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it so hard to have that functionality be transparent to the user?
>>>>>>> Is the "Joe Normal" user going to know how to log on as
>>>>>>> administrator and install and activate the Lisa daemon? Uh, no?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> OK... this may appear to be an attack on nix... it's not, believe
>>>>>>> me. Were one to have the time to determine how to install and
>>>>>>> activate the Lisa daemon... well, no issue, right? One can figure it
>>>>>>> out -eventually-, right?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, of course, I'm not saying that Vista is "issue free." That
>>>>>>> said... when I install Vista, I get a "Network" icon on the desktop
>>>>>>> that takes me right to the stuff I'm tryng to access. No "install
>>>>>>> Lisa daemon" stuff...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, yeah, Vista's not "issue free." We all know it, and I'd be a
>>>>>>> dope to claim otherwise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And I -am- most interested in trying different nix distros; ones
>>>>>>> that might be considered "Joe Normal" friendly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have yet to discover -that- nix distro.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lang[/color]
>>[/color][/color]

"Mike" <no@where.man> wrote in message
news:no-287722.11541021072007@news.supernews.com...[color=blue]
> In article <330D72CD-8EAC-42BC-8144-3C11E57ADC52@microsoft.com>,
> "Lang Murphy" <lang_murphy********.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> And, of course, I'm not saying that Vista is "issue free." That said...
>> when
>> I install Vista, I get a "Network" icon on the desktop that takes me
>> right
>> to the stuff I'm tryng to access.[/color]
>
> Actually, no, you don't. The default install has very few icons on the
> desktop. You have to place the network icon the desktop.
>
> Mike[/color]

Mike,

Good catch! I stand corrected.

Lang

"Ian Betts" <igb123@talktalk.net> wrote in message
news:0B1E55A5-40F3-4E41-B577-AD9736C0AFB1@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> You lost again friend, this is a Vista list.
>
> Go to a linux list.
>
> --
> Ian
>[/color]


Ian,

I'm a regular here. I know which ng this is... thanks, anyway.

Lang

"ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.07.21.15.26.33.406650@zianet.com...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 02:23:05 -0400, Lang Murphy wrote:
>[color=green]
>> I've said it many time before, and I'll say it again... nix ain't ready
>> for
>> "Joe Normal."
>>[/color]
>
> We've been running Ubuntu Linux and RedHat Enterprise Linux on nine public
> access internet computers at the local library for nearly two years. Zero
> complaints. The patrons have easily adapted and find their needs are met
> quite handily.
>[/color]


Ray,

Well... I don't know if public access PC's are the same thing as home PC's.
I would guess that your library computers are locked down so the general
public can't screw things up. I would hope so, anyway... ;-) In that
environment, I would think just about any locked down OS would do the job
with little complaint from anyone. They have access to what, the library
catalog and the internet, right? Maybe a word processor and a spreadsheet?
But not the system configuration stuff, right?

I play with nix because I -am- a computer geek. I'd love to have a nix
distro that "felt right" to me. I just haven't run across that distro yet...
and, truth be told, I couldn't run nix on either of my home PC's because of
hw and sw incompatibilities. It's all about the apps, right?

Anyway... thanks for the civil reply. Appreciated!

Lang

<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>>
>> Lang[/color]
>
> Ubuntu 7.04 has a network icon so you haven't been there or done that.
>
> Alias[/color]


Geez, even putting in disclaimers means nothing to you. Read my post again.

Lang

"xfile" <cou-cou@remove.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OJGq3l5yHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> In addition, mainstream users buy computers as a "solution" just like
> other products, and they don't want nor have the interest to do DIY
> needless to say to install a new OS or switch to a new OS.
>
> Linux are for techies because they never want to userstand mainsteam
> users, and they have no idea about what is "solution" or "offer". Over
> years, they have been told countless times but they are too proud to take
> any others' advises, and yet, they blame why people don't appreciate their
> works. LOL.
>
> Using automobiles as an example, they are sales people for auto
> accessories and parts, while the mainstream car owners want to buy a
> finished car.
>
> My two cents.
>[/color]

<snip>

xfile,

Thanks for the acknowledgement... that's exactly what I was doing: sharing.
For good or ill. ;-)

Lang

"Charlie Tame" <charlie@tames.net> wrote in message
news:%23Zxa$W6yHHA.3400@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Lang Murphy wrote:[color=green]
>> I've said it many time before, and I'll say it again... nix ain't ready
>> for "Joe Normal."
>>
>> Sorry, I forget the person who suggested I try PCLinuxOS, and, that said,
>> I d/l'd it today and installed it on a desktop. (Tried installing it on a
>> laptop with a wireless NIC, but, uh, no go?)
>>
>> So I installed PCLOS, as it's called, on a desktop. Install went OK. Got
>> to the desktop fine. Where's the Network icon? None. How does one access
>> the local network? Ah, open "My Computer". Heh, heh, heh... then open
>> "Remote Places." Then open "Local Network", only to receive the msg "The
>> Lisa daemon does not appear to be running. In order to use the LAN
>> browser, the Lisa daemon must be installed and activated by the system
>> administrator."
>>
>> Uh, OK... where does one go from here? (NOT looking for answers from nix
>> folks, it's a rhetorical question.)
>>
>> Is it so hard to put a "Network" icon on the desktop?
>>
>> Is it so hard to have that functionality be transparent to the user? Is
>> the "Joe Normal" user going to know how to log on as administrator and
>> install and activate the Lisa daemon? Uh, no?
>>
>> OK... this may appear to be an attack on nix... it's not, believe me.
>> Were one to have the time to determine how to install and activate the
>> Lisa daemon... well, no issue, right? One can figure it out -eventually-,
>> right?
>>
>> And, of course, I'm not saying that Vista is "issue free." That said...
>> when I install Vista, I get a "Network" icon on the desktop that takes me
>> right to the stuff I'm tryng to access. No "install Lisa daemon" stuff...
>>
>> So, yeah, Vista's not "issue free." We all know it, and I'd be a dope to
>> claim otherwise.
>>
>> And I -am- most interested in trying different nix distros; ones that
>> might be considered "Joe Normal" friendly.
>>
>> Have yet to discover -that- nix distro.
>>
>> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>>
>> Lang[/color]
>
>
> Strange, I had no such trouble. My biggest problem thus far has been with
> Video drivers and Printers.
>
> However you do mention one of the major irritations of Vista, ie things
> not being where expected or even where they would be logical. These
> cosmetic changes impose a quite unnecessary learning curve on users.
>
> You said
>
> Is it so hard to have that functionality be transparent to the user? Is
> the "Joe Normal" user going to know how to log on as administrator and
> install and activate the Lisa daemon? Uh, no?
>
> So why is the user who is moving to Vista expected to know that
> "Add/Remove" programs is gone and hiding in control panel when all the
> other control panel stuff is elsewhere? Why disguise display resolution as
> something else?
>
> You are citing unfamiliarity as a problem yet Vista has it designed in...
>
> What I see so far is a slower, more awkward, more cumbersome version of XP
> with fancy visual effects. When you look at what is really "New" there is
> very little, well, maybe a mail client that's already on it's third
> replacement cycle and still doesn't actually work :)[/color]


Charlie,

Good points all. No doubt Vista's UI is worlds apart from XP's. The thing I
like about the "new" CP is its search box. Not sure where they put
Add/Remove programs? Try the search box. I use it quite often. To good
effect, I think.

And, I guess, folks might have problems with drivers and printers with
Vista. That issue is keeping me from installing Vista on one of my personal
PC's. I have legacy hw that doesn't have Vista drivers. Or... nix drivers.
So I'm stuck with XP on that box until I can upgrade my hw to Vista
compatible stuff.

Thanks,

Lang

<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.[/color]
>
> Well I am telling you Ubuntu. Go there, do that again. =P[/color]

I may... if time allows. ;-)
[color=blue]
> As far as I am concerned, it is by far the most newbie friendly.
> Everything else doesn't even register on the radar for me honestly.
>
> Though, disregarding OS, I think we all forget one big thing.
>
> Does "Joe Average" go out, buy an OS, and install it on their computer?
> No, "Joe Average" generally does not do that. Sure, there are
> exceptions...but generally speaking, "Joe Average" simply goes out and
> buys a computer with the OS pre-installed.
>
> "Joe Average" would likely have plenty of problems installing and
> configuring *any* operating system, I don't care who makes it and what it
> is called. There can be a fair share of problems installing windows too.
> Right now I am dealing with the problem that my file system under XP isn't
> quite toast yet but appears to have damage from somewhere (non-hardware
> related, disk passes any and all tests I have thrown at it). But I also
> can't re-install XP because not a *single* XP install CD I have, and I
> have several, will boot on this computer (*nix live CDs as well as the
> maxtor diagnostic cd boot fine though ruling out a problem with the
> drive)! Appears that the problem resides with the XP Setup's inability to
> handle certain types of partitions or too many of them causing it to
> freeze in the very beginning.
>
> Could "Joe Average" deal with this? Actually yea Joe Average could...by
> taking it to a computer shop and having the OS installed for them...
>
> What I am trying to get at is that everyone focuses too much on the one
> thing that most uses do the list: "Installing the OS".
>
> This can be anything ranging from a pleasant experience to an absolute
> nightmare with every OS depending on the hardware thrown at it. Vista
> Included!
>
> What's more important, and nobody appears to care about this, is using the
> OS once it is installed and configured. I rank that far higher than any
> problems I could ever encounter when installing and configuring an OS.
>
> And in that regard, I just recently set up a co-worker with Ubuntu who had
> a WinXP install so horribly messed up it was beyond repair. His level of
> technical knowledge is so low that he thought having 60
> concurrently running malware, spyware and virus processes was normal. No,
> I am not exaggerating. I counted them.Ya really think he would be able to
> install any version of windows or would know where to even start? Even if
> said installation were easier than say Ubuntu?
>
> He's had absolutely zero problems with Ubuntu once I installed and
> configured it. He just happily uses it. Reinstalling XP would have been
> pointless as it would have been a matter of time until it became that
> infected with crap again.
>
> --
> Stephan
> 2003 Yamaha R6
>
> 君のこと思い出す日なんてないのは
> 君のこと忘れたときがないから[/color]

Good points, Stephan. I think, maybe, my issue with nix, is that, as I've
gotten older, I'm WAY less tolerant of having to learn new stuff. Vista, as
different as it is from XP, is not a challenge to me. Any flavor of nix that
I've tried, which includes, up to now, RedHat, SuSE, Ubuntu, and now,
PCLinuxOS, every one of them, has thrown challenges at me that I'm not
willing to address.

My intention of starting this thread was to hear back from folks like
yourself... folks who are cognizant of the differences between Vista and
other OS's. And it's always pleasant to trade thoughts in a civil manner.
Not something that happens with any frequency in -this- ng, these days.
So... thanks for that. Always appreciated!

Lang

<snip>[color=blue][color=green]
>> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>>
>> Lang[/color]
>
> Why didn't you email me? All the questions you have can be
> answered by google, too. It's okay to ask questions when you're
> not sure what needs to be done, there are forums and websites-
> just like there are for Vista and all Windows' products.
>
> Your experience with PCLinuxOS, or any Linux flavor for that
> matter, may take some readjustments..... just like Window users
> getting used to Vista- it's really not much different in the way one
> has to retrain the brain/habits/familiarity. Perhaps, the terminologies
> and placement of tools takes a bit getting used to in Linux compared
> to Windows, and that should be expected after dealing with a
> Windows world for so long. It's like moving to a new city and not
> being able to find your way around, but eventually you do. Don't
> let unfamiliar surroundings keep you from seeing and enjoying the sites.
> Unfortunately, for many they only ever "visit" Linux as a tourist, and
> never
> really get the true experience or really learn how to navigate around....
> they miss a lot and make far too many assumptions based on the Windows
> world they came from. They cut their visit short and leave. In reality,
> Linux
> can offer them the exact same things that they believe only exist in their
> gated Windows community.
>
> No, I haven't left Windows megalopolis, yet. But, I sure do get out
> a lot more often than I ever did, and I've really started enjoying the
> nice and comfortable ride... not many car-jackings around these parts,
> either. The scenery is looking better all the time, too.
>
>
> Take care,
>
> Michael
>
> P.S.
> Lang, let me know if you need a lift... there's plenty of room. :-)[/color]

Michael,

Thanks for the reply. My intent, although probably not clearly stated, was
to open a thread about the, er, intricacies, of getting any flavor of nix up
and running, as compared to Vista. I guess, no... I know, that my attempts
at getting any flavor of nix up and running are half-hearted, mainly because
when I hit the wall, so to speak, I have no interest in trying to climb over
that wall.

Yes, my 20 years of Windows experience puts me at an advantage over those
who don't "do" IT for a living. And, yes, my experience with Windows no
doubt slants my perspective. I think the points you make are right on the
money. That said, I think it's just too much to expect "Joe Normal" to jump
into nix. I've seen some of the other replies about how "I've installed nix
and my users are happy campers." Well... the users are happy campers because
they've got an IT guy who takes care of any problems they have. Well... I
know, as stated, that my Windows experience slants my perspective.

I've still got PCLOS installed on a box here. When time allows, I will look
further into the lisa thing.

Again, thanks for the reply. And, as always, thanks for being civil; greatly
appreciated!

Lang

"Lang Murphy" <lang_murphy********.com> wrote in message
news:330D72CD-8EAC-42BC-8144-3C11E57ADC52@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> I've said it many time before, and I'll say it again... nix ain't ready
> for "Joe Normal."
>
> Sorry, I forget the person who suggested I try PCLinuxOS, and, that said,
> I d/l'd it today and installed it on a desktop. (Tried installing it on a
> laptop with a wireless NIC, but, uh, no go?)
>
> So I installed PCLOS, as it's called, on a desktop. Install went OK. Got
> to the desktop fine. Where's the Network icon? None. How does one access
> the local network? Ah, open "My Computer". Heh, heh, heh... then open
> "Remote Places." Then open "Local Network", only to receive the msg "The
> Lisa daemon does not appear to be running. In order to use the LAN
> browser, the Lisa daemon must be installed and activated by the system
> administrator."
>
> Uh, OK... where does one go from here? (NOT looking for answers from nix
> folks, it's a rhetorical question.)
>
> Is it so hard to put a "Network" icon on the desktop?
>
> Is it so hard to have that functionality be transparent to the user? Is
> the "Joe Normal" user going to know how to log on as administrator and
> install and activate the Lisa daemon? Uh, no?
>
> OK... this may appear to be an attack on nix... it's not, believe me. Were
> one to have the time to determine how to install and activate the Lisa
> daemon... well, no issue, right? One can figure it out -eventually-,
> right?
>
> And, of course, I'm not saying that Vista is "issue free." That said...
> when I install Vista, I get a "Network" icon on the desktop that takes me
> right to the stuff I'm tryng to access. No "install Lisa daemon" stuff...
>
> So, yeah, Vista's not "issue free." We all know it, and I'd be a dope to
> claim otherwise.
>
> And I -am- most interested in trying different nix distros; ones that
> might be considered "Joe Normal" friendly.
>
> Have yet to discover -that- nix distro.
>
> And, no, don't tell me Ubutnu. Been there, done that.
>
> Lang[/color]


I wrote a bunch of replies yesterday... for some reason, they didn't make it
out of my outbox... just sent them now... I was not ignoring the first 10 or
so responses... appears there are a few more now...

Lang