On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:44:18 -0600, Bruce Chambers
<bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Adam Albright wrote:[color=green]
>>
>> You know, not one of you anti-Registry Clearer guys have offered a
>> shred of evidence to support your claims. Nothing but the usual hot
>> air and the thinly veiled take my advice I know more than you BS
>> that's always present.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Actually, what we've "offered" is years of first-hand observations and
>experience. We've seen the trouble registry cleaners can cause. What
>we've never seen, and what you've steadfastly refused to produce, is
>*any* evidence that registry cleaners do any good.[/color]

Total BS. Prove your case by stating chapter and verse. Take all the
room your need. Otherwise all you're doing is trying to bully YOUR
opinion. By the way, there is no "we", you can only speak for
yourself, so try to drop that crutch so many here us if you want to
have any creditability.[color=blue]
>[color=green]
>> Give me some FACTS.[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
> Please do. I know what I've seen.[/color]

The burden of proof is on you since you're broadly knocking Registry
Cleaners in general, then you ask me to prove a negative.

So you TELL US what you've seen. Name the application used, the
version number and roughly the date and then detail what when wrong.
Then maybe you've made a case for not using a particular Registry
Cleaner in a particular situation. Of course you're not doing that.
You are simply saying Registry Cleaners are bad, bad, as have others.
[color=blue]
>derive a substantial portion of
>my income helping people recover from the use of registry cleaners.[/color]

Oh please...
[color=blue][color=green]
>> The point here being there would be little need
>> for Registry Cleaners IF Windows actually knew how to totally delete
>> applications you no longer wanted. The truth is it often doesn't clean
>> up totally and Windows is in part to blame.[/color]
>
>
> No, any blame would attach to the programmers who cannot be bothered to
>develop proper uninstallation routines for their products.[/color]

That a boy, now defend Microsoft. The routine to uninstall software,
part of Windows from the beginning and now in Vista found in Control
Panel under Programs and Features is the Microsoft RECOMMEDND way to
uninalled software you no longer want on your system. It works poorly,
often leaving behind traces of applications you no longer want. True,
the uninstall routines from developers also often do the same. Hence
the need for Registry Cleaners. <grin>[color=blue]
>
> Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and
>every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there.[/color]

I see you're now changing your tune. You changed from the original
claim all Registry cleaners are bad, bad, avoid them like the plague,
to now saying something more truthful; SOMETIMES some "cleaners" under
some situations COULD, not automatically will, but MAY cause
problems. That sounds like a 180 degree sift in what was originally
stated by the anti-Registry Cleaner crowd. ;-)
[color=blue]
>And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
>good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
>real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
>effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
>non-existent benefits.[/color]

You forgot to add IN YOUR OPINION. Mine experience is very different.
Countless times a friend, neighbor, has had a very sluggish system.
Running a quick check with some Registry Cleaner showed a forest of
broken links in the Registry. After "cleaning", performance was
noticeably better.[color=blue]
>
> I will concede that a good registry scanning tool, in the hands of
>an experienced and knowledgeable technician or hobbyist can be a useful
>time-saving diagnostic tool, as long as it's not allowed to make any
>changes automatically. But I really don't think that there are any
>registry cleaners that are truly safe for the general public to use.
>Experience has proven just the opposite: such tools simply are not safe
>in the hands of the inexperienced user.[/color]

I was waiting for that. Now you're backtracking still more. What's
that? Now you're admitting there are good Registry Cleaners? You just
got done saying no "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
good. Make up your mind.

Of course as often seen here you need to inject the typical put down.
Oh, you're an expert, you're so experienced, oh, you make your living
doing this, other puffing piled on which if meant to or not always
implies the vast majority of people coming to newsgroups like this are
just mindless dummies, but not you. Got it. Thanks for sharing your
OPINION. Got any facts?

You guys crack me up.

ROTFLMAO!

On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 23:17:23 -0500, Adam Albright <AA@ABC.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 00:00:58 -0400, MICHAEL <u158627_emr2@dslr.net>
>wrote:
>[color=green]
>>* OzBoy:[color=darkred]
>>> Bit lost here, thought the poster asked for a registry cleaner not
>>> whether they work or not and especially not for the flaming that went
>>> on. Only been coming here for a couple of weeks and was very surprised
>>> by the contents of this post. Thought the idea was to help people????
>>> Confused.[/color]
>>
>>Pointing out the possible dangers of registry cleaners
>>*is* helping the user.... and other users who may read the
>>posts. This debate comes up every time registry cleaners
>>are mentioned. I think a lot of the debate is a good thing-
>>it allows lurkers or others who may come across the posts later,
>>to see the good, the bad and the ugly of registry cleaners.
>>For the most part, I think using them are a bad idea... used only
>>as a last resort. They can be helpful, *if* you know what you
>>are deleting or "cleaning/fixing".... most average users have no idea.
>>
>>User beware, have backups, and be prepared to live and learn...
>>maybe a hard lesson. Then again, most of us have been there,
>>done that. Perhaps, it's his turn.
>>
>>At least now, the OP has received the various POV and can make
>>his own decision.... armed with a little more insight.
>>
>>
>>-Michael[/color]
>
>You know, not one of you anti-Registry Clearer guys have offered a
>shred of evidence to support your claims. Nothing but the usual hot
>air and the thinly veiled take my advice I know more than you BS
>that's always present. [/color]
Go right ahead, don't listen to anything anyone has said about DON'T messwith the registry. For you it's perfectly safe.
[color=blue]
>
>Give me some FACTS. Cite chapter and verse, not just bloated opinion.
>
>Any application used improperly can pose a danger. Like Vista itself.
>Funny the fanboys never ever are critical of the biggest enemy to PCs
>everywhere: Windows. The point here being there would be little need
>for Registry Cleaners IF Windows actually knew how to totally delete
>applications you no longer wanted. The truth is it often doesn't clean
>up totally and Windows is in part to blame. You would think with all
>the mindless nag screens Vista has, it would be smart enough to pop up
>a warning box saying such and such entry in Registry points to
>nowhere. Wishful thinking. [/color]
--
more pix @ [url]http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html[/url]

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:37:37 -0500, OzBoy <OzBoy.2tfsx3@no-mx.forums.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Understand exactly where you coming from but wouldn't it be best to
>have a thread titled "Are registry cleaners any good?" and then let
>people put there comments up. This thread is entitled best registry
>cleaner for windows and over 6 pages I think only 4 are mentioned.[/color]

The best registry cleaner is NO REGISTRY cleaner. But if you have to pokearound in the registry, just fire up regedit. Make a backup of your registry, and have at it.
[color=blue]
>But I do understand what you mean just a little surprised at the some
>of the posts under this topic.....no doubt I will continue to be
>surprised as I get to know the site and it's members a little better.
>
>Cheers OzBoy[/color]
--
more pix @ [url]http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html[/url]

"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:b0i293lfaqqnlgcc59f3f62l9sjpm57n3b@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:15:23 -0400, "Daave"
> <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Adam Albright wrote:[/color][/color]
[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> When presented with facts, just plonk. How typical of fanboys.[/color]
>>
>>I'm anything but a "fanboy," but I would like to see you present these
>>facts.[/color]
>
> The fact is Registry Cleaners work when used properly is well
> documented. All that's required is learning how to use Google and
> you'll find countless articles from some REAL experts, not the fakers
> that hang out here that confirm it.[/color]

Maybe there are fakers here making such claims, but you are also making
a claim. Are you able to back it up or not? If not, then you're no
different than the fanboys and fakers IMO.

[email]keepout******.com.inva[/email]lid wrote:[color=blue]
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:37:37 -0500, OzBoy <OzBoy.2tfsx3@no-mx.forums.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Understand exactly where you coming from but wouldn't it be best to
>> have a thread titled "Are registry cleaners any good?" and then let
>> people put there comments up. This thread is entitled best registry
>> cleaner for windows and over 6 pages I think only 4 are mentioned.[/color]
>
> The best registry cleaner is NO REGISTRY cleaner.[/color]

No, there are cleaners and then there are cleaners. One needs a good
cleaner that doesn't act like a shotgun and do it all automatically.

[color=blue]
> But if you have to poke around in the registry, just fire up regedit. Make a backup of your registry, and have at it.[/color]

Talk about dangerous ...

Alias

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:52:01 -0500, The Sand <The.Sand.2tfto4@no-mx.forums.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
>My system (Vista) crashed July 5th due to Trend Micro Anti-Spyware and I
>paid $59. to talk to the people at Microsoft for 6 HOURS to get it
>running again (best $59 bucks I ever spent.) Anyway... he (the
>Microsoft guy) installed CCeaner on it... it's on my desktop right now.
>I haven't used it again but clearly Microsoft thinks it's good and/or
>safe or they wouldn't of installed it.[/color]

I've been using Trend for 9 years. they made 1 booboo with an engine release a few years back. I have to assume their QC picked up after that.It grabbed every resource when it rebooted. They had it fixed within thehour. But anyone it hit had no idea what caused the machine to come to acrawl.

I've been scanning with it daily, and weekly for all that time. Very clean safe machine.

My question is what makes you think it was Trend, and not something trendfound ?
Something trend found is a more likely cause of damage than trend.
There are things out there aimed specifically at trend. I've seen trend shut down without warning. Few & far between. But I usually find a nasty on the machine later. I hear Mcaffee, and Norton horror stories all the time, but not many about Trend.

What is CCeaner ?
--
more pix @ [url]http://members.toast.net/cbminfo/index.html[/url]

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:28:57 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"
<cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote:

[color=blue][color=green]
>>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]
> Tip Of The Day:
> To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...[color=green]
>>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color][/color]

My tip of the day. ALWAYS suspect ANYTHING any MVP claims.

ROTFLMAO!

Adam Albright wrote:[color=blue]
> On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 07:44:18 -0600, Bruce Chambers
> <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Adam Albright wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> You know, not one of you anti-Registry Clearer guys have offered a
>>> shred of evidence to support your claims. Nothing but the usual hot
>>> air and the thinly veiled take my advice I know more than you BS
>>> that's always present.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Actually, what we've "offered" is years of first-hand observations and
>> experience. We've seen the trouble registry cleaners can cause. What
>> we've never seen, and what you've steadfastly refused to produce, is
>> *any* evidence that registry cleaners do any good.[/color]
>
> Total BS. Prove your case by stating chapter and verse. Take all the
> room your need. Otherwise all you're doing is trying to bully YOUR
> opinion. By the way, there is no "we", you can only speak for
> yourself, so try to drop that crutch so many here us if you want to
> have any creditability.[/color]


Sorry, Adam. But I can't help it if *you* are so utterly lacking in
first-hand experience. Maybe you should wait a few years before
spouting off on technical issues about which you know nothing.

[color=blue][color=green][color=darkred]
>>> Give me some FACTS.[/color][/color]
>[color=green]
>> Please do. I know what I've seen.[/color]
>
> The burden of proof is on you since you're broadly knocking Registry
> Cleaners in general, then you ask me to prove a negative.
>[/color]

Not so. *YOU* claim registry cleaners do good things. I'm asking you
to offer proof of that claim. You can't. No one has ever been able to
do so.


[color=blue][color=green]
>>
>> No, any blame would attach to the programmers who cannot be bothered to
>> develop proper uninstallation routines for their products.[/color]
>
> That a boy, now defend Microsoft. The routine to uninstall software,
> part of Windows from the beginning and now in Vista found in Control
> Panel under Programs and Features is the Microsoft RECOMMEDND way to
> uninalled software you no longer want on your system.[/color]


Yes, and what it does is call the application's uninstall routine; the
one provided by the application's developer.
[color=blue]
> It works poorly, often leaving behind traces of applications you no longer want.[/color]


Only when the aplications' developers take short cuts.

[color=blue]
> True,
> the uninstall routines from developers also often do the same.[/color]

My point.
[color=blue]
> Hence
> the need for Registry Cleaners. <grin>[/color]


No, because you still haven't established that these orphaned registry
entries, in and of themselves, do any harm.
[color=blue][color=green]
>> Granted, most registry "cleaners" won't cause problems each and
>> every time they're used, but the potential for harm is always there.[/color]
>
> I see you're now changing your tune. You changed from the original
> claim all Registry cleaners are bad, bad, avoid them like the plague,
> to now saying something more truthful; SOMETIMES some "cleaners" under
> some situations COULD, not automatically will, but MAY cause
> problems. That sounds like a 180 degree sift in what was originally
> stated by the anti-Registry Cleaner crowd. ;-)
>[/color]

No, it's what I've always said.

[color=blue][color=green]
>> And, since no registry "cleaner" has ever been demonstrated to do any
>> good (think of them like treating the flu with chicken soup - there's no
>> real medicinal value, but it sometimes provides a warming placebo
>> effect), I always tell people that the risks far out-weigh the
>> non-existent benefits.[/color]
>
> You forgot to add IN YOUR OPINION. Mine experience is very different.
> Countless times a friend, neighbor, has had a very sluggish system.
> Running a quick check with some Registry Cleaner showed a forest of
> broken links in the Registry. After "cleaning", performance was
> noticeably better.[/color]


Countless neighbors and friends? Gee, what a lot of experience. Come
back when you've supported hundreds of systems professionally, for over
a decade.





--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
[url]http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html[/url]

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell

Daave wrote:[color=blue]
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:b0i293lfaqqnlgcc59f3f62l9sjpm57n3b@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:15:23 -0400, "Daave"
>> <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Adam Albright wrote:[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> When presented with facts, just plonk. How typical of fanboys.
>>>
>>> I'm anything but a "fanboy," but I would like to see you present these
>>> facts.[/color]
>>
>> The fact is Registry Cleaners work when used properly is well
>> documented. All that's required is learning how to use Google and
>> you'll find countless articles from some REAL experts, not the fakers
>> that hang out here that confirm it.[/color]
>
> Maybe there are fakers here making such claims, but you are also making
> a claim. Are you able to back it up or not? If not, then you're no
> different than the fanboys and fakers IMO.[/color]

I have used SystemSuite 4 and 5 MANY times to fix up my computers. It
has been especially useful in removing files after an install (including
Windows) or an uninstall. That said, SystemSuite has two choices, an
automatic registry cleaner which I would never use and one where you
choose what to remove which I do use. After using it, I have seen my
boot up time go from two minutes to 40 seconds with XP.

Alias

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:35:39 -0400, "Daave"
<dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:
[color=blue]
>"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
>news:b0i293lfaqqnlgcc59f3f62l9sjpm57n3b@4ax.com...[color=green]
>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:15:23 -0400, "Daave"
>> <dcwashNOSPAM@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Adam Albright wrote:[/color][/color]
>[color=green][color=darkred]
>>>> When presented with facts, just plonk. How typical of fanboys.
>>>
>>>I'm anything but a "fanboy," but I would like to see you present these
>>>facts.[/color]
>>
>> The fact is Registry Cleaners work when used properly is well
>> documented. All that's required is learning how to use Google and
>> you'll find countless articles from some REAL experts, not the fakers
>> that hang out here that confirm it.[/color]
>
>Maybe there are fakers here making such claims, but you are also making
>a claim. Are you able to back it up or not? If not, then you're no
>different than the fanboys and fakers IMO.[/color]

I wasn't asked a specific question. I detest anybody that makes
sweeping claims without proof, which again is what's happening with
the anti-Registry Cleaner crowd much like the defenders of the useless
UAC who since have backed away from the original everything is peachy
claims about Vista's so-called wonderful User Account Control BS.

The burden of proof in on those claiming Registry Cleaners are "bad"
and should be avoided. Just hot air. Where's their proof?

Somebody put some here =====>

Notice the original claim; all Registry Cleaners are bad, avoid at all
costs, which has now shifted to saying some are bad, but not all, or
only bad if you don't know what you're doing, but I do know kind of
posts which are so typical here. <snicker>

Well isn't that true for ANY application?

Have I said buy a Registry Cleaner, put it on automatic mode and let
it do it's thing? No! Neither has anybody else. I'm simply countering
the empty headed all Registry Cleaners are bad, they don't work noise
some keep making which is obviously based on their own bad experiences
or just "what they've heard".

I like FACTS. Anybody got some?

On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:31:44 -0400, [email]keepout******.com.inva[/email]lid wrote:
[color=blue]
>On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:37:37 -0500, OzBoy <OzBoy.2tfsx3@no-mx.forums.net> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>Understand exactly where you coming from but wouldn't it be best to
>>have a thread titled "Are registry cleaners any good?" and then let
>>people put there comments up. This thread is entitled best registry
>>cleaner for windows and over 6 pages I think only 4 are mentioned.[/color]
>
>The best registry cleaner is NO REGISTRY cleaner. But if you have to poke around in the registry, just fire up regedit. Make a backup of your registry, and have at it.[/color]

You just defeated your own argument. The whole point of using a
Registry Cleaner is to AVOID "poking around" in your Registry using
the build-in regedit. That for sure is how to get in trouble.

Let's deflate the main arguments the anti-Registry Cleaner crowd keeps
making, which is if you use them, such a application will just
automatically clean out what it finds without asking first.

Myth: All Registry Cleaners simply run wild and delete things without
asking first. Totally false!

Truth: Every Registry Cleaner I've tried and I've tired over a dozen,
ALWAYS shows you a list of what it SUGGESTS you remove. Most
allow you to view the details of each key and allow YOU to
walk down the list and uncheck what you might not want to
clean. Some even rank what they suggest you remove so you
can avoid deleting keys you're not sure about.

Myth: Since the Registry is just a text file, deleting a handful of
invalid keys has minimal effect on reducing the size of the size
of the Registry thus no value is realized.

Truth: Just a few orphaned keys can REALLY slow down the system
because Windows will invest time trying to follow the
instructions that no longer point to any valid file. How
much impact this has on performance depends on WHAT kind of
junk is left behind. So even removing just a few invalid
keys while it has no impact on the size of the Registry
can have a major impact on how fast Windows loads and how
well the system runs.

* Arun:[color=blue]
> Can any One Suggest Best Registry Cleaner And residual file Cleaner for vista
> Ultimate.............[/color]

One of the better discussions on registry cleaners,
can be found here; [url]http://www.edbott.com/weblog/archives/000643.html[/url]

Be sure to scroll through the many comments,
there are pro and con posts, along with some
user recommendations. The article was originally
posted back in 2005, but the comments have continued
up until recently.



-Michael

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 00:47:51 -0500, "Hugh Jass" <imnot@home.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
> But if I had a car, and took out the V6 engine, and put in a V8 engine, I
> would want the V6 distributor out, because it isn't doing anything.[/color]


My view is that if the old distributor wasn't hurting you in any way,
and unless you *knew* for sure that you could take it out without any
risk of breaking something, you should leave it in.


[color=blue]
> "Myweb" <meiweb@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:ff16fb663e4008c98ed164ba10d0@msnews.microsoft.com...[color=green]
> > Hello Arun,
> >
> > For what did you have the need for cleaning your registry? If you delete
> > something without knowledge and about the need for the entry you can break
> > your system. Then maybe you have to reinstall. So why not using it like it
> > is? If you buy a car you also will not take out some electronic or some
> > devices from the engine.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > Myweb
> > Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
> > confers no rights.
> >[color=darkred]
> >> Can any One Suggest Best Registry Cleaner And residual file Cleaner
> >> for vista Ultimate.............
> >>[/color]
> >
> >[/color]
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from [url]http://www.teranews.com[/url][/color]

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:28:58 -0500, OzBoy
<OzBoy.2tfpgm@no-mx.forums.net> wrote:
[color=blue]
>
> Bit lost here, thought the poster asked for a registry cleaner not
> whether they work or not and especially not for the flaming that went
> on. Only been coming here for a couple of weeks and was very surprised
> by the contents of this post. Thought the idea was to help people????
> Confused.[/color]


It is *often* true that the best way to help someone is not to answer
his question directly, but to explain that what he plans to do is
ill-advised.

If someone asks "which should I use to wash my car--coca-cola or
pepsi-cola?" it is *not* helpful to reply with either choice.

Regarding flaming, I agree with you entirely.

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Replacing a car engine demonstrates a fair amount of knowledge, well
beyond the average user.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]
[url]http://www.dts-l.org[/url]


"Hugh Jass" <imnot@home.com> wrote in message
news:4691bfef$0$16350$88260bb3@free.teranews.com...[color=blue]
> But if I had a car, and took out the V6 engine, and put in a V8
> engine, I would want the V6 distributor out, because it isn't doing
> anything.[/color]