On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:58:16 +1000, "The Old Bloke"[color=blue]
>"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message[color=green]
>> "The Old Bloke" <leopard32@XXGmail.com> wrote in message[/color][/color]
[color=blue]
>I did check the .zip thoroughly before I posted it. It is safe[/color]

That's not the point.

The point is that if I read a post that has not much descriptive text
and points to a .ZIP, I have no colateral information to assess how
trustworthy the link and target may be.

OTOH, if you point to a page that has the link on it, I have the page
to read and check.

IOW, we're not debating your judgement in assessing the file. The
point of failure is that we have no wway of knowing (even in the least
rigorous sense) that whatever posted the link was "you", or that the
target "you" pointed to was whetever it was claimed to be.

We've had malware posting to newsgroups, and we've had exploits
delivered via .ZIP (so that by the time you poke around in the .ZIP,
it may have already "opened" through such exploits).

Hence, etc.


[color=blue]
>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]
Trsut me, I won't make a mistake![color=blue]
>-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -[/color]

Frank & Adam,

Take your personal attacks to email and lets get on with the business at
hand

--

Bob Eyster
MS Windows Vista Home Premium



"Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
news:0j9r73laoctn2b3s03t5kqj47q4fc94uei@4ax.com...[color=blue]
> On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:14:45 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
> <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
>[color=green]
>>"The Old Bloke" <leopard32@XXGmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:137q3o19vkgtse3@corp.supernews.com...[color=darkred]
>>> I'm using Vista Home Premium
>>>
>>> This has fixed nearly all my permissions
>>>
>>> [url]http://dazzy.org/vista/TakeOwn.zip[/url]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>[/color]
>>
>>
>>As Malke pointed out no one who knows anything about computers will
>>blindly
>>download a .zip file because someone on a newsgroup said it "fixed" some
>>indeterminate problem. I have no idea what this program does but from the
>>name and what little you told us I'm guessing it changes some file
>>permissions to make Vista act more like XP. This will seriously compromise
>>the security in Vista and is not recommended unless you have the skills to
>>return the file system to it's default state if needed. Many of the built
>>in
>>programs and features in Vista require the default file permissions to
>>work
>>properly. In the future as programs, drivers, utilities, whatever are
>>written for Vista having the file permissions in an unknown state may
>>cause
>>many unexplained problems that will be impossible to track down. I'm not
>>saying changing file permissions is inherently bad. I am saying posting a
>>link to a program that makes unknown changes to file permissions and
>>urging
>>other people to run it is a really bad idea. To do so in a newsgroup
>>frequented by many beginning computer users is very irresponsible.[/color]
>
>
> As bad as most MVP's running their mouth giving bad information? Even
> beginners to computers quickly learn MVP often stands for Microsoft
> shill, blowhard or wannabe.
>
> Define work "properly", like you mean the file system is suppose to
> crawl with copying files or moving them taking way longer than under
> XP? Maybe you mean Vista saying it needs to close Windows Explorer
> over and over. How about UAC nagging about you wanting to delete a
> desktop shortcut? Media Player constantly crashing? Unable to write
> files to the root drive? So many "improvements" had to guess which one
> you mean.
>
> Pretending Vista works great is way more irresponsible.
>[/color]

Hi Bob,

Well said, I was about to say more or less the same thing myself.

While I don't like the idea of 'censorship' or even the idea of the presence
of a 'big brother' it seems to me that when postings degenerate into the kind
of personal tit for tat slanging match conducted by Frank and Adam against
each other, that it would be a good idea if Microsoft (or whoever the
'webmasters' of the newsgroup are) would have some 'responsible' people
'observing' the content of postings to 'warn' people about their literary
conduct regarding personal attacks etc like some other forums or 'message
boards' that I have registered with and made use of.

Peace!

Bob

"Bob Eyster" wrote:
[color=blue]
> Frank & Adam,
>
> Take your personal attacks to email and lets get on with the business at
> hand
>
> --
>
> Bob Eyster
> MS Windows Vista Home Premium
>
>
>
> "Adam Albright" <AA@ABC.net> wrote in message
> news:0j9r73laoctn2b3s03t5kqj47q4fc94uei@4ax.com...[color=green]
> > On Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:14:45 -0700, "Kerry Brown"
> > <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote:
> >[color=darkred]
> >>"The Old Bloke" <leopard32@XXGmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:137q3o19vkgtse3@corp.supernews.com...
> >>> I'm using Vista Home Premium
> >>>
> >>> This has fixed nearly all my permissions
> >>>
> >>> [url]http://dazzy.org/vista/TakeOwn.zip[/url]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>As Malke pointed out no one who knows anything about computers will
> >>blindly
> >>download a .zip file because someone on a newsgroup said it "fixed" some
> >>indeterminate problem. I have no idea what this program does but from the
> >>name and what little you told us I'm guessing it changes some file
> >>permissions to make Vista act more like XP. This will seriously compromise
> >>the security in Vista and is not recommended unless you have the skills to
> >>return the file system to it's default state if needed. Many of the built
> >>in
> >>programs and features in Vista require the default file permissions to
> >>work
> >>properly. In the future as programs, drivers, utilities, whatever are
> >>written for Vista having the file permissions in an unknown state may
> >>cause
> >>many unexplained problems that will be impossible to track down. I'm not
> >>saying changing file permissions is inherently bad. I am saying posting a
> >>link to a program that makes unknown changes to file permissions and
> >>urging
> >>other people to run it is a really bad idea. To do so in a newsgroup
> >>frequented by many beginning computer users is very irresponsible.[/color]
> >
> >
> > As bad as most MVP's running their mouth giving bad information? Even
> > beginners to computers quickly learn MVP often stands for Microsoft
> > shill, blowhard or wannabe.
> >
> > Define work "properly", like you mean the file system is suppose to
> > crawl with copying files or moving them taking way longer than under
> > XP? Maybe you mean Vista saying it needs to close Windows Explorer
> > over and over. How about UAC nagging about you wanting to delete a
> > desktop shortcut? Media Player constantly crashing? Unable to write
> > files to the root drive? So many "improvements" had to guess which one
> > you mean.
> >
> > Pretending Vista works great is way more irresponsible.
> >[/color]
>
>[/color]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:30:00 -0700, TufftyBob
<TufftyBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Hi Bob,
>
>Well said, I was about to say more or less the same thing myself.
>
>While I don't like the idea of 'censorship' or even the idea of the presence
>of a 'big brother' it seems to me that when postings degenerate into the kind
>of personal tit for tat slanging match conducted by Frank and Adam against
>each other, that it would be a good idea if Microsoft (or whoever the
>'webmasters' of the newsgroup are) would have some 'responsible' people
>'observing' the content of postings to 'warn' people about their literary
>conduct regarding personal attacks etc like some other forums or 'message
>boards' that I have registered with and made use of.[/color]

You should understand this is a newsgroup regardless how you come upon
it. It isn't a forum, it isn't a list or message board and there are
no webmasters since it isn't web based either and nobody is or could
be "in charge" though many try to act like they are, typically fanboys
and MVPs, the two groups that ironically make the most noise and
engage in the most off topic whining and endless bellyaching about
other posters.

As far as Frank, he's obvious a troll. He routinely gets his ass
kicked because his constant bad conduct calls for it. Anything else
you need cleared up, just ask.

Assuming (though I dont like to 'assume' anything for obvious reasons) that
you are correct about the difference between this (and possibly even other)
newsgroup(s) and forums and message boards etc, then I stand corrected, as I
was unaware of there being any material difference. As I thought everybody
who posts has to register and every poster can reply, ask questions and start
new threads as well as search for old ones, then again I could not see why
this newsgroup was any different. But like I said I was unaware of any
difference but now I 'know', I won't be making that mistake again, as I would
only make an ass out of (anyone else not just 'U' and) me! ha ha.

Peace

Bob

"Adam Albright" wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:30:00 -0700, TufftyBob
> <TufftyBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>[color=green]
> >Hi Bob,
> >
> >Well said, I was about to say more or less the same thing myself.
> >
> >While I don't like the idea of 'censorship' or even the idea of the presence
> >of a 'big brother' it seems to me that when postings degenerate into the kind
> >of personal tit for tat slanging match conducted by Frank and Adam against
> >each other, that it would be a good idea if Microsoft (or whoever the
> >'webmasters' of the newsgroup are) would have some 'responsible' people
> >'observing' the content of postings to 'warn' people about their literary
> >conduct regarding personal attacks etc like some other forums or 'message
> >boards' that I have registered with and made use of.[/color]
>
> You should understand this is a newsgroup regardless how you come upon
> it. It isn't a forum, it isn't a list or message board and there are
> no webmasters since it isn't web based either and nobody is or could
> be "in charge" though many try to act like they are, typically fanboys
> and MVPs, the two groups that ironically make the most noise and
> engage in the most off topic whining and endless bellyaching about
> other posters.
>
> As far as Frank, he's obvious a troll. He routinely gets his ass
> kicked because his constant bad conduct calls for it. Anything else
> you need cleared up, just ask.
>
>[/color]

Bob;
Microsoft does occasionally delete inappropriate posts from the
Microsoft newsgroup servers.
Since the Microsoft newsgroup servers are the property and controlled
by Microsoft, they have every right to delete whatever the deem
inappropriate.

Some call it censorship and it may be.
But on privately owned servers, the owner is free to do what they
want.
This applies to every owner, not just Microsoft.
Is it really censorship an owner controlling what is done on the
owners property?

While these newsgroups are not moderated, they are not completely free
with anything goes either.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]
[url]http://www.dts-l.org[/url]


"TufftyBob" <TufftyBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:5D6DBF5A-8B65-4426-B34F-C3185EE239B3@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Hi Bob,
>
> Well said, I was about to say more or less the same thing myself.
>
> While I don't like the idea of 'censorship' or even the idea of the
> presence
> of a 'big brother' it seems to me that when postings degenerate into
> the kind
> of personal tit for tat slanging match conducted by Frank and Adam
> against
> each other, that it would be a good idea if Microsoft (or whoever
> the
> 'webmasters' of the newsgroup are) would have some 'responsible'
> people
> 'observing' the content of postings to 'warn' people about their
> literary
> conduct regarding personal attacks etc like some other forums or
> 'message
> boards' that I have registered with and made use of.
>
> Peace!
>
> Bob[/color]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:28:01 -0700, TufftyBob
<TufftyBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Assuming (though I dont like to 'assume' anything for obvious reasons) that
>you are correct about the difference between this (and possibly even other)
>newsgroup(s) and forums and message boards etc, then I stand corrected, as I
>was unaware of there being any material difference.[/color]

The important difference is any newsgroup (except for the handful of
moderated ones) is they are self-regulating in that anybody can decide
on their own which posts to read, respond to or ignore. Ditto for
posters. Heck, if somebody don't like what I'm saying or what somebody
else said, just don't read those posters. Won't bother me in the
least.

Accordingly NOBODY could be or is in charge. So having posted to
groups like these for decades, I resent the always present control
freaks, net cop, nannies and assorted other characters that try to
assume some kind of control which is almost always based on some
agenda. Here, it is obvious a certain element don't like to hear
anything even remotely critical of Vista or Microsoft and try to
restrict that. They even try to pretend this group and others like it
are "owned" and/or controlled by Microsoft which again is baloney. The
irony is all the self-anointed guardians make way more noise than the
people they quickly label trolls or worse.
[color=blue]
>As I thought everybody
>who posts has to register and every poster can reply, ask questions and start
>new threads as well as search for old ones, then again I could not see why
>this newsgroup was any different. But like I said I was unaware of any
>difference but now I 'know', I won't be making that mistake again, as I would
>only make an ass out of (anyone else not just 'U' and) me! ha ha.[/color]

It's a common mistake. ;-) While often confused with the "Web" and
associated with the "Internet" this is actually USENET, a separate
network which predates both, getting started in late 1979 at Duke
University. Learn more here:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet[/url]

Adam Albright wrote:



He routinely gets his ass[color=blue]
> kicked because his constant bad conduct calls for it.[/color]
---------------------------------
hahaha...not by a fc*ckin know nothing drunk loser like you...lol!
You're the weakest POS I've ever seen in any ng.
Frank

Adam Albright wrote:
[color=blue]
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:28:01 -0700, TufftyBob
> <TufftyBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>[color=green]
>>Assuming (though I dont like to 'assume' anything for obvious reasons) that
>>you are correct about the difference between this (and possibly even other)
>>newsgroup(s) and forums and message boards etc, then I stand corrected, as I
>>was unaware of there being any material difference.[/color]
>
>
> The important difference is any newsgroup (except for the handful of
> moderated ones) is they are self-regulating in that anybody can decide
> on their own which posts to read, respond to or ignore. Ditto for
> posters. Heck, if somebody don't like what I'm saying or what somebody
> else said, just don't read those posters. Won't bother me in the
> least.
>
> Accordingly NOBODY could be or is in charge. So having posted to
> groups like these for decades, I resent the always present control
> freaks, net cop, nannies and assorted other characters that try to
> assume some kind of control which is almost always based on some
> agenda. Here, it is obvious a certain element don't like to hear
> anything even remotely critical of Vista or Microsoft and try to
> restrict that. They even try to pretend this group and others like it
> are "owned" and/or controlled by Microsoft which again is baloney. The
> irony is all the self-anointed guardians make way more noise than the
> people they quickly label trolls or worse.
>
>[color=green]
>>As I thought everybody
>>who posts has to register and every poster can reply, ask questions and start
>>new threads as well as search for old ones, then again I could not see why
>>this newsgroup was any different. But like I said I was unaware of any
>>difference but now I 'know', I won't be making that mistake again, as I would
>>only make an ass out of (anyone else not just 'U' and) me! ha ha.[/color]
>
>
> It's a common mistake. ;-) While often confused with the "Web" and
> associated with the "Internet" this is actually USENET, a separate
> network which predates both, getting started in late 1979 at Duke
> University. Learn more here:
>
> [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet[/url]
>
>
>[/color]

Yeah, you tell'em mr lush...lol!
Sober up you loser.
Frank

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:17:41 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>Bob;
>Microsoft does occasionally delete inappropriate posts from the
>Microsoft newsgroup servers.[/color]

Reality check: The majority of people posting here and reading
articles here do NOT access the articles on Microsoft's news servers.
So for anybody to claim they can censor or in any way can or try to
control content is just baloney.
[color=blue]
>While these newsgroups are not moderated, they are not completely free
>with anything goes either.[/color]

Sadly most newsgroups that have higher traffic also have control
freaks or net cops that just got it in their heads THEY get to police
the group. That seems to be your hobby. Just once in awhile
contribute something useful instead of your constant whining over
trivial things like that post shouldn't be posted here, post it in a
more appropriate group or your shameless undying defense of Microsoft.
What you do get out of it?

This is a self help NG. If users spend there time wasting band width with
petty spats and loading the server with this junk, it cost extra money for
those users that have to pay by the minute to DL messages.

Maybe a NG needs to the created for those users who need to vent their
differences. Maybe it could be called KiddyCorner.

Some users complain about Top Posting and Bottom Posting how it waste time.
Well so does the personal attacks on each other that can create a thread
that has about 100 messages or more.
--

Bob Eyster
MS Windows Vista Home Premium



"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:uzCQtuDxHHA.5108@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> Bob;
> Microsoft does occasionally delete inappropriate posts from the Microsoft
> newsgroup servers.
> Since the Microsoft newsgroup servers are the property and controlled by
> Microsoft, they have every right to delete whatever the deem
> inappropriate.
>
> Some call it censorship and it may be.
> But on privately owned servers, the owner is free to do what they want.
> This applies to every owner, not just Microsoft.
> Is it really censorship an owner controlling what is done on the owners
> property?
>
> While these newsgroups are not moderated, they are not completely free
> with anything goes either.
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> [url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]
> [url]http://www.dts-l.org[/url]
>
>
> "TufftyBob" <TufftyBob@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:5D6DBF5A-8B65-4426-B34F-C3185EE239B3@microsoft.com...[color=green]
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Well said, I was about to say more or less the same thing myself.
>>
>> While I don't like the idea of 'censorship' or even the idea of the
>> presence
>> of a 'big brother' it seems to me that when postings degenerate into the
>> kind
>> of personal tit for tat slanging match conducted by Frank and Adam
>> against
>> each other, that it would be a good idea if Microsoft (or whoever the
>> 'webmasters' of the newsgroup are) would have some 'responsible' people
>> 'observing' the content of postings to 'warn' people about their literary
>> conduct regarding personal attacks etc like some other forums or 'message
>> boards' that I have registered with and made use of.
>>
>> Peace!
>>
>> Bob[/color]
>[/color]