If you have problems with new computers, that is almost certainly not
a Vista issue.
What has the computer manufacturers tech support said when you called?
If their answer was unsatisfactory, you should return immediately
before the return period expires.

"MS should have made Vista backwards compatible"
Vista is backwards compatible...to a point.
Total backwards compatibility is not a reasonable possibility and
probably never will be.
If total backwards compatibility is that important, you should
probably stay with your original OS.
For the programs you have that do not work with Vista, what have their
manufacturers said when you asked what they are going to do about
Vista compatibility.
There are many that believe Vista would have been better off is
backwards compatibility were ignored completely so the new OS would be
leaner and more secure.
But as a software engineer with a computer science degree you already
know all of this.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]
[url]http://www.dts-l.org[/url]


"oiffer" <oiffer@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:429C14A3-6469-4A3D-9092-3D0E8CEDA421@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Crashing:
>
> I purchased a brand new, top of the line HP pavilion with Vista.
> From day 1
> it crashed. No rhyme or reason. Sometimes it would crash (blue
> screen) when
> I was gaming. Sometimes it would crash when I was using Mozilla.
> Sometimes
> it would crash when I was not even using it!! No added utilities...
> factory
> utils only.
>
> Unfortunately, I also bought a brand new compaq presario notebook
> with
> factory installed Vista to use at work. I constantly get device
> conflicts
> and have to reboot Vista. I interact with clients all day, and have
> to
> reboot during meetings with them. Not good.
>
> I am NOT a Luser... I have a comp. sci. degree and was a software
> engineer
> for 8 years. I know how to use a computer. Vista is just as bad as
> Win95's
> first release. And the position taken by MS is the same as
> always... its the
> hardware or the software you are using. Upgrade. At the very
> least, MS
> should have made Vista backwards compatible so I could use the same
> versions
> of the software I was using before without having to repurchase
> everything
> (Nero for example).
>
> It's always the same story with MS... every new release is worse
> than the
> last. XP was actually stable and they had to go and rush a beta
> version of
> Vista to the public. MS, once again, using its customers for free
> QA. It's
> like a friend who keeps hitting me over the head with a baseball
> bat, yet I
> keep going back to them to get more.
>
> I promise I will NEVER buy another microsoft product as long as I
> live.
>
> If your Vista works well, then congrats. Google Vista and see how
> many
> people are happy with it. It would be interesting to see if there's
> been a
> surge in XP sales from people trying to get their computers to work
> properly.
>
>
> - an ex-MS customer[/color]

Rich wrote:[color=blue]
>
> In fact ever since I began using Win 2000 in 2000 I've had a total of
> three blue screens.
>[/color]
that's because there is a option there that auto-reboots the pc when
critical errors hit... most the time you don't get to see the blue-screen
except on very rare situations that the system doesn't even have the power
to reboot any more...

tell us: how many reboots did you have since 2000 ?

;)

Good lord,
heh .. if you don't notice reboots then there isn't much help for you :)


Three blue screens and ....


NO unintentional reboots, imagine that



Rich

Rich wrote:
[color=blue]
> Good lord,
> heh .. if you don't notice reboots then there isn't much help for you :)
>
>
> Three blue screens and ....
>
>
> NO unintentional reboots, imagine that
>[/color]
you lucky son ... :)

I've only had about a dozen crashes since beta 2 of Vista, and ALL of them
were due to badly written driver software

--

----
Fox
----


"oiffer" <oiffer@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:64E900BE-1208-4F1A-B4AC-BDDA6D3ABE6A@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> If I had a dollar for every time Windows Vista crashed on me, I would have
> enough money to buy a mac.
>
> Good job MS... worst OS release ever. And it won't even let me reinstall
> XP
> over it.[/color]

Jupiter Jones [MVP] wrote:
[color=blue]
> If you have problems with new computers, that is almost certainly not
> a Vista issue.[/color]

Never is a Microsoft problem according to the MickeyMouse Fanbois.

Love and Kisses,
Doris

--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... [url]http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2[/url]
Installing: Windows vs Linux ... [url]http://tinyurl.com/ywqmbw[/url]
BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry Krause,
Feliks Dzerzhinsky
Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.

"Never is a Microsoft problem"
No one ever said that, that is entirely your own idea.

So if you go to a shop and order a computer with your favorite flavor
of Linux and it immediately locks up regularly, it must be a Linux
problem so there is no reason to bother the shop?

You should read the post again:
"I purchased a brand new, top of the line HP pavilion with Vista.
From day 1 it crashed."
That does not sound like a Windows issue, however you can continue to
ASSUME whatever you like regardless the facts.
I would not accept such regardless the operating system.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]
[url]http://www.dts-l.org[/url]


"Doris Day - MFB" <snort@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1179520793.948076@netadmin1.interbaun.net...[color=blue]
> Never is a Microsoft problem according to the MickeyMouse Fanbois.
>
> Love and Kisses,
> Doris
>
> --
> My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ...
> [url]http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2[/url]
> Installing: Windows vs Linux ... [url]http://tinyurl.com/ywqmbw[/url]
> BallmerBumBois: Frank, Julian, Richard Urban, Jupiter Jones, Harry
> Krause,
> Feliks Dzerzhinsky
> Sorry if I missed anyone, place your name here _________________.
>
>
>
>[/color]

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in news:
#WmTk0OmHHA.4960@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
[color=blue]
> Another nix troll.[/color]

Nope.

As it turns out, just another dissatisfied customer.

I assume that it's foolish to believe that by spending good hard earned-
money for above-average hardware from well-known large OEMS, that they are
expected to work properly from the get-go ?

Then, why not vent to a Vista 'discussion board' as offered thru the MS
'Communities' directly at the MS website........

Well, no more worries. I got rid of Vista and installed XP SP2 on my
top-of-the line HP (that had either software or hardware problems, no fault
of MS or Vista). Everything works great now!



"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" wrote:
[color=blue]
> "Never is a Microsoft problem"
> No one ever said that, that is entirely your own idea.
>
> So if you go to a shop and order a computer with your favorite flavor
> of Linux and it immediately locks up regularly, it must be a Linux
> problem so there is no reason to bother the shop?
>
> You should read the post again:
> "I purchased a brand new, top of the line HP pavilion with Vista.
> From day 1 it crashed."
> That does not sound like a Windows issue, however you can continue to
> ASSUME whatever you like regardless the facts.
> I would not accept such regardless the operating system.
>[/color]

Because the O/S does not work well with the "hardware" or "drivers" or
*CRAPWARE* that the OEM installs during the manufacturer of a computer does
NOT a bad operating system make!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns9934C0F21F2EBthisnthatadelphianet@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in news:
> #WmTk0OmHHA.4960@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:
>[color=green]
>> Another nix troll.[/color]
>
> Nope.
>
> As it turns out, just another dissatisfied customer.
>
> I assume that it's foolish to believe that by spending good hard earned-
> money for above-average hardware from well-known large OEMS, that they are
> expected to work properly from the get-go ?
>
> Then, why not vent to a Vista 'discussion board' as offered thru the MS
> 'Communities' directly at the MS website........
>
>[/color]

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in
news:eb5HKbamHHA.3760@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
[color=blue]
> Because the O/S does not work well with the "hardware" or "drivers" or
> *CRAPWARE* that the OEM installs during the manufacturer of a computer
> does NOT a bad operating system make![/color]

I agree completely.

But my point was not as to who is at fault. I don't want to get into that.

When you purchase comsumer goods, you have an expectation that it should
work perfectly, fresh out-of-the box. Agree ?

Just because someone is hating Vista doesn't automatically make them
another '*nix troll'.

In a perfect world, I would expect a new computer to work flawlessly.
Unfortunately, due to various stimuli - they don't. The first 24 hours of
use by a new owner can trash a system. Then he comes here, or calls the
manufacturer, and says "it never worked right from the beginning". Why?
Because he is trying to load everything that he had on his old operating
system without doing any research.

Should he have to do research? No, I don't believe he should have to. If
something is not compatible the O/S should just refuse to load that
program/driver - period! And the O/S should tell the operator *WHY* it won't
load.

Sure, the owner would be pissed, but at least he wouldn't trash his computer
as a result of the incompatible program/driver. It is much easier to explain
to a person that his program xxxxx will not work with Vista than it is to
try to figure out how to solve for the problems that program xxxxx created.

The Vista installer should pick up on the same items. If the owner did not
remove what is necessary to allow a competent install, the install should
halt - and present a precise error message that is understandable by a 70
year old grandmother. Enough of these cryptic error messages already!

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
news:Xns9934D00A35DE9thisnthatadelphianet@216.196.97.142...[color=blue]
> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in
> news:eb5HKbamHHA.3760@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>[color=green]
>> Because the O/S does not work well with the "hardware" or "drivers" or
>> *CRAPWARE* that the OEM installs during the manufacturer of a computer
>> does NOT a bad operating system make![/color]
>
> I agree completely.
>
> But my point was not as to who is at fault. I don't want to get into that.
>
> When you purchase comsumer goods, you have an expectation that it should
> work perfectly, fresh out-of-the box. Agree ?
>
> Just because someone is hating Vista doesn't automatically make them
> another '*nix troll'.
>
>
>[/color]

[color=blue]
> Should he have to do research? No, I don't believe he should have to. If
> something is not compatible the O/S should just refuse to load that
> program/driver - period! And the O/S should tell the operator *WHY* it
> won't load.
>
> Sure, the owner would be pissed, but at least he wouldn't trash his
> computer as a result of the incompatible program/driver. It is much easier
> to explain to a person that his program xxxxx will not work with Vista
> than it is to try to figure out how to solve for the problems that program
> xxxxx created.
>
> The Vista installer should pick up on the same items. If the owner did not
> remove what is necessary to allow a competent install, the install should
> halt - and present a precise error message that is understandable by a 70
> year old grandmother. Enough of these cryptic error messages already![/color]

Amen!!

"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in message
news:uno2BObmHHA.4552@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...[color=blue]
> In a perfect world, I would expect a new computer to work flawlessly.
> Unfortunately, due to various stimuli - they don't. The first 24 hours of
> use by a new owner can trash a system. Then he comes here, or calls the
> manufacturer, and says "it never worked right from the beginning". Why?
> Because he is trying to load everything that he had on his old operating
> system without doing any research.
>
> Should he have to do research? No, I don't believe he should have to. If
> something is not compatible the O/S should just refuse to load that
> program/driver - period! And the O/S should tell the operator *WHY* it
> won't load.
>
> Sure, the owner would be pissed, but at least he wouldn't trash his
> computer as a result of the incompatible program/driver. It is much easier
> to explain to a person that his program xxxxx will not work with Vista
> than it is to try to figure out how to solve for the problems that program
> xxxxx created.
>
> The Vista installer should pick up on the same items. If the owner did not
> remove what is necessary to allow a competent install, the install should
> halt - and present a precise error message that is understandable by a 70
> year old grandmother. Enough of these cryptic error messages already!
>
> --
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>
> Quote from George Ankner:
> If you knew as much as you think you know,
> You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>
> "DanS" <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@a.d.e.l.p.h.i.a.n.e.t> wrote in message
> news:Xns9934D00A35DE9thisnthatadelphianet@216.196.97.142...[color=green]
>> "Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> wrote in
>> news:eb5HKbamHHA.3760@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Because the O/S does not work well with the "hardware" or "drivers" or
>>> *CRAPWARE* that the OEM installs during the manufacturer of a computer
>>> does NOT a bad operating system make![/color]
>>
>> I agree completely.
>>
>> But my point was not as to who is at fault. I don't want to get into
>> that.
>>
>> When you purchase comsumer goods, you have an expectation that it should
>> work perfectly, fresh out-of-the box. Agree ?
>>
>> Just because someone is hating Vista doesn't automatically make them
>> another '*nix troll'.
>>
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]

I still suggest you contact the OEM so they can make it right.
If at a later time you decide you want Vista and there is a hardware
problem with vista, you may have no recourse especially if the
warranty is over.

--
Jupiter Jones [MVP]
[url]http://www3.telus.net/dandemar[/url]
[url]http://www.dts-l.org[/url]


"oiffer" <oiffer@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:C8350AF4-E927-4FE9-908B-C8569D460BF3@microsoft.com...[color=blue]
> Well, no more worries. I got rid of Vista and installed XP SP2 on
> my
> top-of-the line HP (that had either software or hardware problems,
> no fault
> of MS or Vista). Everything works great now![/color]

On Fri, 18 May 2007 20:29:53 -0600, "Jupiter Jones [MVP]"
<jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote:
[color=blue]
>I still suggest you contact the OEM so they can make it right.
>If at a later time you decide you want Vista and there is a hardware
>problem with vista, you may have no recourse especially if the
>warranty is over.[/color]


Actually by changing the installed OS, he has already probably voided
his warranty.