Read this:

[url]http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9019238[/url]

Alias

In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B wins.

Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.

There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
software they need.



Alias <aka@notthereorhere.cn> wrote in news:f2c359$669$1@aioe.org:
[color=blue]
> Read this:
>
> [url]http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic[/url]
> &articleId=9019238
>
> Alias
>[/color]

Joseph Johnson wrote:[color=blue]
> In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B wins.
>
> Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
>
> There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
> Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
> Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
> software they need.[/color]


If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.

Harry Krause wrote:[color=blue]
> Joseph Johnson wrote:[color=green]
>> In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B
>> wins.
>>
>> Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
>>
>> There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers
>> working on Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy,
>> and Linux and Open Source gives their low cost high quality
>> programmers, the legitimate software they need.[/color]
>
>
> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
> most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
> users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
> and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
> the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.
>[/color]

Ubuntu 7.04 comes with an HP Printer Control Panel. Your printer will
work with 7.04. MS isn't bringing this patent crap up because they
aren't afraid of Linux. They're scared sh*tless.

Alias

On Tue, 15 May 2007 08:01:00 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:
[color=blue]
> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
> most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
> users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
> and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
> the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.[/color]

I'm not a Linux advocate, but I've used it and I disagree with two things in
your post.

I guess it depends on how you define "most desktop users", arguably a
generalized statement, but in my experience most desktop users that I deal
with are happy to surf the Internet, send e-mail and occasionally write a
letter and print it out.

Linux does that easily, with no software cost to the user.

Also, my 7-year-old HP 2100 installed with no effort on my part other than
selecting it from the list presented when I clicked on "Add printer."

Don't get me wrong: I'm still waiting for Vista to stabilize enough for me to
risk it on my existing hardware, but as for Linux, I see it as a very viable
alternative for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot of money on software
and wants to do the three things I mentioned.

--
Joey DoWop Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh

Alias wrote:[color=blue]
> Harry Krause wrote:[color=green]
>> Joseph Johnson wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B
>>> wins.
>>>
>>> Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
>>>
>>> There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers
>>> working on Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy,
>>> and Linux and Open Source gives their low cost high quality
>>> programmers, the legitimate software they need.[/color]
>>
>>
>> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
>> most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
>> users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces
>> together and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of
>> support for the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP
>> printer.
>>[/color]
>
> Ubuntu 7.04 comes with an HP Printer Control Panel. Your printer will
> work with 7.04. MS isn't bringing this patent crap up because they
> aren't afraid of Linux. They're scared sh*tless.
>
> Alias[/color]


Ubuntu's printer control panel doesn't fully exploit the features of my
HP color laserjet. The printer driver in VISTA does.

Joey DoWop Dee wrote:[color=blue]
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 08:01:00 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:
>[color=green]
>> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
>> most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
>> users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
>> and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
>> the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.[/color]
>
> I'm not a Linux advocate, but I've used it and I disagree with two things in
> your post.
>
> I guess it depends on how you define "most desktop users", arguably a
> generalized statement, but in my experience most desktop users that I deal
> with are happy to surf the Internet, send e-mail and occasionally write a
> letter and print it out.
>
> Linux does that easily, with no software cost to the user.
>
> Also, my 7-year-old HP 2100 installed with no effort on my part other than
> selecting it from the list presented when I clicked on "Add printer."
>
> Don't get me wrong: I'm still waiting for Vista to stabilize enough for me to
> risk it on my existing hardware, but as for Linux, I see it as a very viable
> alternative for anyone who doesn't want to spend a lot of money on software
> and wants to do the three things I mentioned.
>[/color]


Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.

Yes, ubuntu found one of my printers, but the feature set its driver
offered was not nearly as good as the one available through VISTA.

Harry Krause wrote:[color=blue]
> Alias wrote:[color=green]
>> Harry Krause wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> Joseph Johnson wrote:
>>>> In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B
>>>> wins.
>>>>
>>>> Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
>>>>
>>>> There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers
>>>> working on Linux because officially their gov't can't condone
>>>> piracy, and Linux and Open Source gives their low cost high quality
>>>> programmers, the legitimate software they need.
>>>
>>>
>>> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least
>>> for most desktop users, most small business users, and most
>>> organizational users without an IT department to keep all the bits
>>> and pieces together and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in
>>> terms of support for the latest hardware or even year-old hardware,
>>> like my HP printer.
>>>[/color]
>>
>> Ubuntu 7.04 comes with an HP Printer Control Panel. Your printer will
>> work with 7.04. MS isn't bringing this patent crap up because they
>> aren't afraid of Linux. They're scared sh*tless.
>>
>> Alias[/color]
>
>
> Ubuntu's printer control panel doesn't fully exploit the features of my
> HP color laserjet. The printer driver in VISTA does.[/color]

What does Vista's drivers provide that Ubuntu's doesn't?

Alias

Harry Krause wrote:
[color=blue]
> Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
> the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
> version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
>[/color]
That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
hardware prices have been continually going down because of competition in
a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises has
been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after version
of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly did
pay for that version of Windows you are now running.

Love and Kisses,
Doris.


--
My Microsoft Hero (he loves this company!) ... [url]http://tinyurl.com/yp9cn2[/url]
Title Says It All ... [url]http://tinyurl.com/2ssodl[/url]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Doris Day - MFB wrote:[color=blue]
> Harry Krause wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
>> the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
>> version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
>>[/color]
> That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
> preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
> hardware prices have been continually going down because of competition in
> a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises has
> been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after version
> of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
> Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly did
> pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
>
> Love and Kisses,
> Doris.
>
>[/color]
You are truly clueless about the true nature of the world. Hardware
manufacturers are grateful to MS and its production of ever-more complex
and resource-hungry software. Otherwise people would still be using
their 1.4 GHz Celerons that they bought 5 years ago.

The price MS charges OEMs is absurdly low. Or do you actually think
that $400 Dell would cost $200? If that were true, why don't Dell's
Linux boxes cost substantially less that their Windows boxes?

- --
Iron Feliks
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Doris Day - MFB wrote:[color=blue]
> Harry Krause wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
>> the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
>> version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
>>[/color]
> That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
> preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
> hardware prices have been continually going down because of competition in
> a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises has
> been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after version
> of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
> Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly did
> pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
>
> Love and Kisses,
> Doris.
>
>[/color]

Yawn. Just what do you think a major purveyor such as Dell or HP pays MS
for a OS license? Not much.

I bought an OEM version of Vista. Considering that my computer booted up
the first time with it, and after it went through it various procedures,
it found ALL my existing hardware and installed drivers for it, and I
didn't waste any time searching, I got my moneysworth. Wasn't very
expensive, either.

Ubuntu booted up properly, but didn't find or properly install drivers
for half the hardware I have. And the command structure, good god, I
thought DOS 1.1 was cryptic.

This latest ubuntu was not the first time I messed about a bit with
Linux. I'm still not impressed with it. It is worth exactly what one
pays for it.

On Tue, 15 May 2007 08:01:00 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:
[color=blue]
> Joseph Johnson wrote:[color=green]
>> In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B wins.
>>
>> Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
>>
>> There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
>> Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
>> Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
>> software they need.[/color]
>
>
> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
> most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
> users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
> and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
> the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.[/color]

You've obviously not tried Linux in the last two years. It will easily
satisfy the needs of 98% of users. It may take a little effort to INSTALL,
but so does MS. Once it is properly installed and set up it's no more
difficult to use that MS or MAC - it's just a little different. IMHO xp
may have been a 'B', vista is shaping up to be a 'C', Linux is an 'A-' and
MS sees the handwriting on the wall.

Harry Krause wrote:[color=blue]
> Doris Day - MFB wrote:[color=green]
>> Harry Krause wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
>>> the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
>>> version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
>>>[/color]
>> That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
>> preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
>> hardware prices have been continually going down because of
>> competition in
>> a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises
>> has
>> been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after
>> version
>> of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
>> Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly
>> did
>> pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
>>
>> Love and Kisses,
>> Doris.
>>
>>[/color]
>
> Yawn. Just what do you think a major purveyor such as Dell or HP pays MS
> for a OS license? Not much.[/color]

No one that's sensible buys either one.
[color=blue]
>
> I bought an OEM version of Vista. Considering that my computer booted up
> the first time with it, and after it went through it various procedures,
> it found ALL my existing hardware and installed drivers for it, and I
> didn't waste any time searching, I got my moneysworth. Wasn't very
> expensive, either.
>
> Ubuntu booted up properly, but didn't find or properly install drivers
> for half the hardware I have. And the command structure, good god, I
> thought DOS 1.1 was cryptic.[/color]

Clicking on something is too complicated for you?
[color=blue]
>
> This latest ubuntu was not the first time I messed about a bit with
> Linux. I'm still not impressed with it. It is worth exactly what one
> pays for it.[/color]

No, it's worth it's weight in gold. No WPA. No WGA. No SPP. No DRM
restrictions. No viruses. No malware. AND, you don't need a new Ninja
computer to run it.

A friend of mine is repairing a computer loaded with XP. His copy of XP
is legitimate, purchased from a reputable computer store. Windows
Updates says that it isn't "genuine". The customer calls MS and is told
he has to buy another copy of XP. That's the kind of groovy thing that
happens with XP and Vista and will be their downfall. So, if you're
enjoying Vista, savor the moment, because soon MS will activate and
genuine itself right out of business.

Alias

Harry Krause wrote:[color=blue]
> Doris Day - MFB wrote:[color=green]
>> Harry Krause wrote:
>>[color=darkred]
>>> Just about any PC you buy from a box store is equipped to boot up, surf
>>> the internet, and handle email, because most of those PCs come with a
>>> version of Win installed. No software cost to the user.
>>>[/color]
>> That is simply not true. When you purchase a new computer with Windows
>> preloaded, the cost of Windows is part of the purchase price. Whereas
>> hardware prices have been continually going down because of
>> competition in
>> a free market, Microsoft through its predatory OEM licensing practises
>> has
>> been able to maintain its ridiculously high pricing. Version after
>> version
>> of Windows pricing has pretty much stayed the same, until the release of
>> Vista, where Microsoft has hit the consumer even harder. You certainly
>> did
>> pay for that version of Windows you are now running.
>>
>> Love and Kisses,
>> Doris.
>>
>>[/color]
>[/color]


[color=blue]
>
> I bought an OEM version of Vista. Considering that my computer booted[/color]
up the first time with it, and after it went through it various
procedures, it found ALL my existing hardware and installed drivers for
it, and I didn't waste any time searching, I got my moneysworth. Wasn't
very expensive, either.
[color=blue]
> Yawn. Just what do you think a major purveyor such as Dell or HP pays MS
> for a OS license? Not much.[/color]

No one that's sensible buys either one.
[color=blue]
>
> Ubuntu booted up properly, but didn't find or properly install[/color]
drivers for half the hardware I have. And the command structure, good
god, I thought DOS 1.1 was cryptic.

Clicking on something is too complicated for you?
[color=blue]
>
> This latest ubuntu was not the first time I messed about a bit with[/color]
Linux. I'm still not impressed with it. It is worth exactly what one
pays for it.

No, it's worth it's weight in gold. No WPA. No WGA. No SPP. No DRM
restrictions. No viruses. No malware. AND, you don't need a new Ninja
computer to run it.

A friend of mine is repairing a computer loaded with XP. His copy of XP
is legitimate, purchased from a reputable computer store. Windows
Updates says that it isn't "genuine". The customer calls MS and is told
he has to buy another copy of XP. That's the kind of groovy thing that
happens with XP and Vista and will be their downfall. So, if you're
enjoying Vista, savor the moment, because soon MS will activate and
genuine itself right out of business.

Alias

ray wrote:[color=blue]
> On Tue, 15 May 2007 08:01:00 -0400, Harry Krause wrote:
>[color=green]
>> Joseph Johnson wrote:[color=darkred]
>>> In the end, you can't beat free. If product A = B, and B is free, B wins.
>>>
>>> Even if B is a B- or a C+, it could win.
>>>
>>> There are thousands of Chinese, Russian, and Indian programmers working on
>>> Linux because officially their gov't can't condone piracy, and Linux and
>>> Open Source gives their low cost high quality programmers, the legitimate
>>> software they need.[/color]
>>
>> If product B is "linux," then it is no better than a "D", at least for
>> most desktop users, most small business users, and most organizational
>> users without an IT department to keep all the bits and pieces together
>> and working. It's especially behind the 8-ball in terms of support for
>> the latest hardware or even year-old hardware, like my HP printer.[/color]
>
> You've obviously not tried Linux in the last two years. It will easily
> satisfy the needs of 98% of users. It may take a little effort to INSTALL,
> but so does MS. Once it is properly installed and set up it's no more
> difficult to use that MS or MAC - it's just a little different. IMHO xp
> may have been a 'B', vista is shaping up to be a 'C', Linux is an 'A-' and
> MS sees the handwriting on the wall.
>[/color]


I tried ubuntu this past week...does that count?
Oh, and other than unwrapping VISTA and popping it into my DVD drive, it
took no effort to install VISTA.