Hello,

I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power cut
it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer properly,
even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the shutdown
sequence.

UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically, but
as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I havn't
looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a reasonably
short time.

Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it designed
exclusively for Californians?

Regards

Christopher R. Lee wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power
> cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer
> properly, even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the
> shutdown sequence.
>
> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically,
> but as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I
> havn't looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a
> reasonably short time.
>
> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it
> designed exclusively for Californians?

You don't need to buy a new UPS for each new operating system unless
your UPS is incredibly old and/or from a unknown mftr. If your UPS is
made by one of the big guys - APC, Belkin, Tripplite - they will have
updated software on their websites. Go there and download the software,
after making sure it is compatible with Vista. Then you can control how
your computer shuts down during a power outage.

I don't understand what Californians have to do with this subject at all.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

You need to get a larger capacity UPS to increase the time available to your
computer.
"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:57044CCD-58D6-4C83-869C-DB5E1EFBC3B4@microsoft.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power
> cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer
> properly, even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the
> shutdown sequence.
>
> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically, but
> as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I havn't
> looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a reasonably
> short time.
>
> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it designed
> exclusively for Californians?
>
> Regards

If you have an APC UPS, here is a download link for their PowerChute Personal
Edition v2.1.1 for Vista:

http://www.apcc.com/tools/download/s...swfam=129&tsk=


I Bleed Blue and Gold
GO BEARS!


"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:57044CCD-58D6-4C83-869C-DB5E1EFBC3B4@microsoft.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power cut it
> doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer properly, even
> when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the shutdown sequence.
>
> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically, but as
> I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I havn't looked
> to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a reasonably short time.
>
> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it designed
> exclusively for Californians?
>
> Regards

make sure the battery is not losing it's charge and your load isn't too much
for it

--
Licensed Boating Capt. Jonathan Perreault
http://www.AllAboutGames.BraveHost.com
- note: click continue, when it ask about security certificate -

Best Comments From Users:
Vista is satan's way to bring hell to earth. -Me

A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely
foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. -Web

No Matter The Problem Even With Linux, It's Microsoft's And Windows's
Faults -Everyone
"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:57044CCD-58D6-4C83-869C-DB5E1EFBC3B4@microsoft.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power
> cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer
> properly, even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the
> shutdown sequence.
>
> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically, but
> as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I havn't
> looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a reasonably
> short time.
>
> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it designed
> exclusively for Californians?
>
> Regards

I bought mine in a local hypermarket, but unusually for that sort of retail
outlet it's manufactured locally (saves CO2 transporting heavy stuff across
the Atlantic/Pacific, I suppose).

The firm is Infosec, who make very good stuff. However, like many suppliers
they don't yet have a Vista driver for this model. Also, since they are more
geared up for big industrial installations than home applications, the
interface is RS232, which is still standard in industry and laboratories and
will be for a long time to come.

I suppose I could buy a RS232 card or USB converter.

But my point is really that it should be possible to shut down an OS cleanly
and quickly by means of some kind of panic button/icon. Ideally (some
hope...), the PC should have a button (like the old reset button) that can
be activated by the user or the UPS, and read by the OS without any
proprietary UPS software.

In reply to another reply, I mentioned California, because hardware and
software designers need to be aware that in many parts of the world power
consumption and power outages are a limiting factor for the use of
computers, and big UPSs cost money. The same arguments are valid for
uninterruptible broadband access, but that's another story.

Regards


"Cal Bear '66" <xxx@xxx.org> a écrit dans le message de
news:B964A9BE-1805-45A1-ADBE-80DD5A9CDE62@microsoft.com...
> If you have an APC UPS, here is a download link for their PowerChute
> Personal Edition v2.1.1 for Vista:
>
> http://www.apcc.com/tools/download/s...swfam=129&tsk=
>
>
> I Bleed Blue and Gold
> GO BEARS!
>
>
> "Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:57044CCD-58D6-4C83-869C-DB5E1EFBC3B4@microsoft.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power
>> cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer
>> properly, even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the
>> shutdown sequence.
>>
>> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically,
>> but as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I
>> havn't looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a
>> reasonably short time.
>>
>> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it
>> designed exclusively for Californians?
>>
>> Regards
>
>

You have to size the battery capacity of the UPS with the electrical load
you have applied to the UPS. I get a good 30 minutes of battery backup time
when there is a power failure. You either have an almost dead battery or
your UPS is under the capacity you really need.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)



"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:57044CCD-58D6-4C83-869C-DB5E1EFBC3B4@microsoft.com...
> Hello,
>
> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power
> cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer
> properly, even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the
> shutdown sequence.
>
> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically, but
> as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I havn't
> looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a reasonably
> short time.
>
> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it designed
> exclusively for Californians?
>
> Regards

"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:C26DD201-DC96-4B97-85E0-EE0828871220@microsoft.com...

>>> when there is a power cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut
>>> down the computer properly

How long is not enough time? Minutes or seconds?

The fastest shutdown sequence would probably be to hibernate. This dumps
the entire contents of memory to your hard drive and then switches off.
It's what laptops do when the battery dies. Go into Power Options in the
Control Panel, click "Choose what the power buttons do" and then set either
the power button or the sleep key (whichever comes to hand quickest in an
emergency) to Hibernate.

The reason I asked how long is that it isn't instant. It takes about forty
seconds on my system. If that's too long then obviously I haven't helped!

Sleep is quicker than Hibernate but don't be tempted by this as I believe it
doesn't power off completely.

"Rojo Habe" <nosp@m.thx> a écrit dans le message de
news:A41748D1-5034-4D9A-9087-BF636712DFB5@microsoft.com...
>
> "Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:C26DD201-DC96-4B97-85E0-EE0828871220@microsoft.com...
>
>>>> when there is a power cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to
>>>> shut down the computer properly
>
> How long is not enough time? Minutes or seconds?

The UPS starts beeping as soon as the power is off, then it becomes more and
more inistent. As usual with these things there's no indication how much
time I really have.
>
> The fastest shutdown sequence would probably be to hibernate. This dumps
> the entire contents of memory to your hard drive and then switches off.
> It's what laptops do when the battery dies.

I should have thought of that; in a properly engineered system, a
non-portable PC would "know" it has a UPS, and also be able to detect a
mains power outage.

> Go into Power Options in the Control Panel, click "Choose what the power
> buttons do" and then set either the power button or the sleep key
> (whichever comes to hand quickest in an emergency) to Hibernate.

Thanks, I'll try that.

>
> The reason I asked how long is that it isn't instant. It takes about
> forty seconds on my system. If that's too long then obviously I haven't
> helped!

If it's that short, why don't PCs have a small battery built-in as in a
portable? At least, as far as I'm aware you can't buy a battery like that.
For this idea to work, M$ would have to think of another way of
automatically installing their updates. This should not be done at shut-down
time, since when a user tells a computer to switch off it should do just
that, within a specified time limit. A side effect of current practice
encourages is that users tend to leave equipment not totally shut down,
which raises economy and safety issues.

>
> Sleep is quicker than Hibernate but don't be tempted by this as I believe
> it doesn't power off completely.

A small battery, as that in a portable, would last a pitifully short amount
of time in a desktop. You see how heavy a UPS is.

90% of the weight is the battery that is large enough to be used for a
desktop.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)



"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:D78D07E0-0803-4600-9C01-FA9D016F1EF0@microsoft.com...
>
> "Rojo Habe" <nosp@m.thx> a écrit dans le message de
> news:A41748D1-5034-4D9A-9087-BF636712DFB5@microsoft.com...
>>
>> "Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
>> news:C26DD201-DC96-4B97-85E0-EE0828871220@microsoft.com...
>>
>>>>> when there is a power cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to
>>>>> shut down the computer properly
>>
>> How long is not enough time? Minutes or seconds?
>
> The UPS starts beeping as soon as the power is off, then it becomes more
> and more inistent. As usual with these things there's no indication how
> much time I really have.
>>
>> The fastest shutdown sequence would probably be to hibernate. This dumps
>> the entire contents of memory to your hard drive and then switches off.
>> It's what laptops do when the battery dies.
>
> I should have thought of that; in a properly engineered system, a
> non-portable PC would "know" it has a UPS, and also be able to detect a
> mains power outage.
>
>> Go into Power Options in the Control Panel, click "Choose what the power
>> buttons do" and then set either the power button or the sleep key
>> (whichever comes to hand quickest in an emergency) to Hibernate.
>
> Thanks, I'll try that.
>
>>
>> The reason I asked how long is that it isn't instant. It takes about
>> forty seconds on my system. If that's too long then obviously I haven't
>> helped!
>
> If it's that short, why don't PCs have a small battery built-in as in a
> portable? At least, as far as I'm aware you can't buy a battery like that.
> For this idea to work, M$ would have to think of another way of
> automatically installing their updates. This should not be done at
> shut-down time, since when a user tells a computer to switch off it should
> do just that, within a specified time limit. A side effect of current
> practice encourages is that users tend to leave equipment not totally shut
> down, which raises economy and safety issues.
>
>>
>> Sleep is quicker than Hibernate but don't be tempted by this as I believe
>> it doesn't power off completely.
>

It does not beep because it is almost out of power it beeps just to let you
know that your primary power is gone and that it is being used to run your
PC. What is the size or rated power of your UPS?

"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:D78D07E0-0803-4600-9C01-FA9D016F1EF0@microsoft.com...
>
> "Rojo Habe" <nosp@m.thx> a écrit dans le message de
> news:A41748D1-5034-4D9A-9087-BF636712DFB5@microsoft.com...
>>
>> "Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
>> news:C26DD201-DC96-4B97-85E0-EE0828871220@microsoft.com...
>>
>>>>> when there is a power cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to
>>>>> shut down the computer properly
>>
>> How long is not enough time? Minutes or seconds?
>
> The UPS starts beeping as soon as the power is off, then it becomes more
> and more inistent. As usual with these things there's no indication how
> much time I really have.
>>
>> The fastest shutdown sequence would probably be to hibernate. This dumps
>> the entire contents of memory to your hard drive and then switches off.
>> It's what laptops do when the battery dies.
>
> I should have thought of that; in a properly engineered system, a
> non-portable PC would "know" it has a UPS, and also be able to detect a
> mains power outage.
>
>> Go into Power Options in the Control Panel, click "Choose what the power
>> buttons do" and then set either the power button or the sleep key
>> (whichever comes to hand quickest in an emergency) to Hibernate.
>
> Thanks, I'll try that.
>
>>
>> The reason I asked how long is that it isn't instant. It takes about
>> forty seconds on my system. If that's too long then obviously I haven't
>> helped!
>
> If it's that short, why don't PCs have a small battery built-in as in a
> portable? At least, as far as I'm aware you can't buy a battery like that.
> For this idea to work, M$ would have to think of another way of
> automatically installing their updates. This should not be done at
> shut-down time, since when a user tells a computer to switch off it should
> do just that, within a specified time limit. A side effect of current
> practice encourages is that users tend to leave equipment not totally shut
> down, which raises economy and safety issues.
>
>>
>> Sleep is quicker than Hibernate but don't be tempted by this as I believe
>> it doesn't power off completely.
>

"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:D78D07E0-0803-4600-9C01-FA9D016F1EF0@microsoft.com...
>
> For this idea to work, M$ would have to think of another way of
> automatically installing their updates. This should not be done at
> shut-down time, since when a user tells a computer to switch off it should
> do just that, within a specified time limit.

Windows downloads the updates and waits until shutdown so as not to
interfere with your work. Some updates can, and will, be installed
automatically in the background. Some require a reboot to complete them.
It is these that are normally performed at shutdown time. There's normally
an icon in the taskbar telling you the update is ready to be installed and
there's nothing to stop you installing it manually by double-clicking the
icon; the computer will reboot as part of the update process.

> A side effect of current practice encourages is that users tend to leave
> equipment not totally shut down, which raises economy and safety issues.
>

I believe the general MS philosophy is to encourage the use of Sleep mode,
which puts the computer into an extremely low-power state. To the user it
looks almost identical to hibernation. The big difference is it doesn't
save the RAM to the hard drive, therefore a minimal amount of power is used
to keep the memory alive. The hard drive, graphics card and all other
hardware are switched off, the fans power down and to all intents and
purposes the thing looks as though it's powered off. Because the RAM is
kept intact, and a minimal amount of power is still being used, it only
takes about five seconds to switch back on, as opposed to maybe thirty to
come out of hibernation. Everything is as it was when you left it. Any
open applications are still running and all open windows are in the same
state you left them in. I've even hit the Sleep button in the middle of a
game, just to see what happened, and when I switched back on it never missed
a beat! I've never seen a previous version of Windows manage that.

Even if you do a full shutdown your power supply will still be drawing
current unless you physically switch it off, either using the power switch
on the back (if there is one) or at the wall outlet. Sleep mode uses very
little more power than this.

Laptops (and presumably desktop PCs with appropriate drivers for the UPS)
are able to transition from Sleep to Hibernate in the event of a power (or
battery) failure.

I tend to shut down my PC (or at least reboot it) about once a week; other
than that I just hit the sleep button.

In message <D78D07E0-0803-4600-9C01-FA9D016F1EF0@microsoft.com>
"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote:

>> The reason I asked how long is that it isn't instant. It takes about
>> forty seconds on my system. If that's too long then obviously I haven't
>> helped!
>
>If it's that short, why don't PCs have a small battery built-in as in a
>portable?

Because at that level, batteries are relatively cheap, the problem is
the electronics to get you over to the backup power and back again, and
charging circuitry.

>At least, as far as I'm aware you can't buy a battery like that.

You'll be well into 75% of the cost of the cheaper UPSes you see today
which will run you for several minutes. Most consumers wouldn't bother.

>For this idea to work, M$ would have to think of another way of
>automatically installing their updates. This should not be done at shut-down
>time, since when a user tells a computer to switch off it should do just
>that, within a specified time limit.

Then configure your PC appropriately. Or, when you need to do a
shutdown in a hurry, choose that option rather then the "Install updates
and shut down" button.

If you aren't aware, when you have updated pending, hit the Right arrow
button over to the right of the shutdown button and you'll have a "Shut
Down" button which will shutdown without installing updates.

Second, if an application initiates a shutdown, updates won't install
unless that application uses the appropriate API to tell the OS to shut
down. UPS software will normally shut down without the updates
installing.

>A side effect of current practice
>encourages is that users tend to leave equipment not totally shut down,
>which raises economy and safety issues.

I'm not sure you mean with regards to economy issues, although if it's
energy consumption, that's roughly the same whether it requests a reboot
and wastes the user's time AND uses electricity, or does it during a
shutdown, using only additional electricity.

As far as safety, if you have actual safety concerns about your computer
while it's running, maybe you need a new machine.

--
You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than just a kind word.

My UPS is an IPEL 350 Evolution, 350 VA, specified for 8 min at full power,
with a limit of 30 min.

That should be adequate for a normal PC, but since I can't afford/don't want
to buy a new one just to please Vista, there is no way I can make it tell
the PC to shut down.

In reply to various other posts:

- Vista may well provide an icon to indicate that an update is pending, but
you may not be there to see it, and anyway it's hard to can't keep track of
all those little incomprehensible icons.

- There was some mention of sleep and hibernation modes. There's nothing
like that on my recent Dell/Vista. French Vista only has Veille (= standby)
and Arreter (shutdown) on the start menu, and right clicking has no effect.

In conclusion, what's needed (but is obviously too much to ask for at the
moment) with desktop PCs and their operating systems is safe and automatic
shutdown when the power goes off, without any hardware- and
software-specific external accessories. This should need only a few seconds
of backup power, and not much power at all if the RAM could be dumped to
flash memory.

Regards


"Richard Urban" <richardurbanREMOVETHIS********.com> a écrit dans le message
de news:uSJ75FNFIHA.5752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> You have to size the battery capacity of the UPS with the electrical load
> you have applied to the UPS. I get a good 30 minutes of battery backup
> time when there is a power failure. You either have an almost dead battery
> or your UPS is under the capacity you really need.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Urban
> Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
> (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
>
>
>
> "Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
> news:57044CCD-58D6-4C83-869C-DB5E1EFBC3B4@microsoft.com...
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), but when there is a power
>> cut it doesn't always leave me enough time to shut down the computer
>> properly, even when Vista hasn't decided to update itself during the
>> shutdown sequence.
>>
>> UPSs come with software that's designed to take control automatically,
>> but as I can't afford to buy a new one for each new operating system, I
>> havn't looked to see if there is a model that shuts down Vista in a
>> reasonably short time.
>>
>> Does Vista have any kind of emergency shutdown facility, or is it
>> designed exclusively for Californians?
>>
>> Regards
>

"Christopher R. Lee" <nobody@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:5DD1D747-B20F-4E86-A4FA-6225A499F20C@microsoft.com...
> In conclusion, what's needed (but is obviously too much to ask for at the
> moment) with desktop PCs and their operating systems is safe and automatic
> shutdown when the power goes off, without any hardware- and
> software-specific external accessories. This should need only a few
> seconds of backup power, and not much power at all if the RAM could be
> dumped to flash memory.

The operating system can already cope with this; it's how it behaves on
laptops.

As for the hardware: you may or may not find a PC that can operate on
internal batteries, or you could maybe design and build one yourself, using
a laptop motherboard as a starting base? Either way, it's not the fault of
Windows that your PC (or mine) can't detect power failures.

> - There was some mention of sleep and hibernation modes. There's nothing
> like that on my recent Dell/Vista. French Vista only has Veille (=
> standby) and Arreter (shutdown) on the start menu, and right clicking has
> no effect.


My shutdown menu on the Start menu has the following options: Switch User,
Log Off, Lock, Restart, Sleep and Shut Down. Just to be sure we're looking
at the same thing, you click the Start button and hover the mouse over the
right-pointing arrow (to the right of the power-off and lock icons). The
power-off icon sleeps by default (unless there are critical updates pending)
but can be configured in the control panel to shut down instead. It's very
odd that you only have two options on yours, particularly since Standby has
been superseded by Sleep. It's seems strange that Microsoft should restrict
your choices on the basis of what primary language is installed. I can only
assume that your copy of Windows came preloaded on your machine and that for
some reason the vendor has set it up like this.

The only ideal solution that will fit your needs is if Infosec come up with
a Vista-compatible version of their software. The product still seems to be
available on their web site, so I'm sure they will. Have you tried
contacting them?

Oh, and to answer a point in your original post: yes, you can buy USB serial
port adaptors. Amazon France seem to be charging more than Amazon UK but
here are a couple of links:

http://www.amazon.fr/Vision-Systems-...3253213&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/USB-RS232-Co...3253083&sr=8-1