Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using vista
for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few improvements
which can be made upon the game handling parts of the operating system.
First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release enough information on
this. They should have set up a site which had a list of all games fully
compatable with vista rtm. along with contact details for developers to
contact microsoft when the game becomes compatable with vista. on this list
they could also declare which of these games is compatable with the games
browser. Which games show cover art, allow parental controls. have the game
saves maped along with other such details as homepage link etc. To be honest
Im surprized that verry little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed
patches for their games so make them compatable with the games explorer
fully. This could also be down to lack of information(official that is)
about how the new system works. This compatablility list could be added to
gamesforwindows.com along with voting on the games you want to see
compatable so that games developers can see enough people have interest in a
title being supported and support it. Now what else needs to be added or
improved. Well the live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting
but to my disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade
games is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind
more this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use
the trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect.
A windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues could
quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time. after all
it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off. I wouldnt be
surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as live anywhere would
be a great way of distributing content on multiple platforms. as in buy an
arcade game on the pc and have the option to download it on the 360 too. And
how about a plugin for media center which adds your gamertag and all the
options from the 360, messanging etc. have the live marketplace also
accessable from media center. Well thats all im going to wright on the
subject right now but I will no doubt add to this brainstormer later as i
also would like you to add to it. What do you think of vistas game features.
For some too little for others too much. Me well I believe if you do
something you might as well do it right.

You have forgotten someting...

Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial version
you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems has been
informed for US to MS....

One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....

Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines I
always have an spare machine to play with....

Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
Once.....!

It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
Software runing fne on Vista!!!



"John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of these
> games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover art,
> allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other such
> details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry little,
> introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games so make
> them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be down to
> lack of information(official that is) about how the new system works. This
> compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com along with
> voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games developers
> can see enough people have interest in a title being supported and support
> it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the live branding of
> microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my disguist the only site
> relatively related to microsoft for arcade games is an msn one. So they
> build an operating system wit gaming in mind more this time, borrow the
> live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the trademark on the
> majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A windows version
> of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting something like live
> arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be created and live arcade
> added. I thought it would be a simple site design and that there would be
> a link or button on the games explorer. I was mistaken. Or maybe not. I
> just want to clarify that all these issues could quite possibly be in
> discussion at microsoft for quite some time. after all it was the
> xbox360's developers that finished the project off. I wouldnt be surprized
> if the live arcade feature comes to windows as live anywhere would be a
> great way of distributing content on multiple platforms. as in buy an
> arcade game on the pc and have the option to download it on the 360 too.
> And how about a plugin for media center which adds your gamertag and all
> the options from the 360, messanging etc. have the live marketplace also
> accessable from media center. Well thats all im going to wright on the
> subject right now but I will no doubt add to this brainstormer later as i
> also would like you to add to it. What do you think of vistas game
> features. For some too little for others too much. Me well I believe if
> you do something you might as well do it right.

You have forgotten someting...

Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial version
you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems has been
informed for US to MS....

One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....

Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines I
always have an spare machine to play with....

Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
Once.....!

It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
Software runing fne on Vista!!!



"John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of these
> games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover art,
> allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other such
> details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry little,
> introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games so make
> them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be down to
> lack of information(official that is) about how the new system works. This
> compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com along with
> voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games developers
> can see enough people have interest in a title being supported and support
> it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the live branding of
> microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my disguist the only site
> relatively related to microsoft for arcade games is an msn one. So they
> build an operating system wit gaming in mind more this time, borrow the
> live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the trademark on the
> majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A windows version
> of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting something like live
> arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be created and live arcade
> added. I thought it would be a simple site design and that there would be
> a link or button on the games explorer. I was mistaken. Or maybe not. I
> just want to clarify that all these issues could quite possibly be in
> discussion at microsoft for quite some time. after all it was the
> xbox360's developers that finished the project off. I wouldnt be surprized
> if the live arcade feature comes to windows as live anywhere would be a
> great way of distributing content on multiple platforms. as in buy an
> arcade game on the pc and have the option to download it on the 360 too.
> And how about a plugin for media center which adds your gamertag and all
> the options from the 360, messanging etc. have the live marketplace also
> accessable from media center. Well thats all im going to wright on the
> subject right now but I will no doubt add to this brainstormer later as i
> also would like you to add to it. What do you think of vistas game
> features. For some too little for others too much. Me well I believe if
> you do something you might as well do it right.

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
>
>

Cough, Cough........ Yawn..... Hmmmmmmm........ you seem to be forgeting
something. I was not complaining about lack of software or driver support.
In fact I dont think you even fully read what I was saying. Of course the
rtm build wont compare to vista in a couple of years for software
compatability and useability. That is a given. Its a new piece of software.
One on which other software is dependant (an os) Maybe this is my own fault
and that i may have come accross to you as complaining about the os in a
deeper form, but that is not what I was trying to get accross.
What I was trying to get accross was a lack microsoft focus devs. You have
people working on explorer, wmp, media center etc, but there seems to not be
any games focused group. (Thats just how I percieve it right now, there
could well be a dev team working on this aspect of windows on some microsoft
campus somewhere) but still I want to raise the topic at least.
So from what I can tell the www.gamesforwindows.com site is registerd to
microsoft and not the magazine company of that name. Right now the site
gives a sort of coming soon impression. Not that it isnt finished, but it
seems only to be a portal for advertising games for windows branded games.
What I hope for the future from that site is a community much like
www.xbox.com . Why not, Pc gamers are just as important as consol ones. And
before going further in this brainstorm may I stop you in your tracks. No
replies on the lines of "we dont need another gaming site) Sure we dont. We
need a portal for pc gamers just like xbox, nintendo, and playstation.
Diferent thing all together. Why dont we have it now. Gamertags will no
longer be exclusive to consol gaming come halo 2 for the pc. Why not open
the site now and warm the comunity up for the release. Let people who want a
gamertag get one through games for windows instead of having to go through
xbox.com . Because there are some people who dont want an xbox and have no
intention of getting one. People who wouldnt be passing by the xbox.com site
and go ....hmmmmmmmmm i might as well get my gamertag now. Make it easier
for god sake and build the comunity. I have no real problems with vista
right now. I think the games browser was a good idea. I am simply making
some sugestions as the games browser is a small leap from microsoft to
support pc gamers. So is directx10. Comunity is the leap forward, fluidicy.
They need to cater for pc gamers in these areas just as they did for the
xbox. We need a proper marketplace not that horable thing they have up right
now. We want arcade games. We want ease of access both from games browser
and media center and we want features. None of this cannot be done. They can
still do this. I just think the sooner they do it the better. The amount of
fud going around about vista was enourmas and most of the time b-sh+t. They
need to show people they wont just sit back till another service pack. Or
wait a couple of years to make pc gaming even better when they can do it
now. Microsoft could get good publicity if they do make a focussed
developement group for the gaming sector, much like the 360. working on
backwards compatabilty, features, game ratings/coverart/age rating updates.
People would like it. Or maybe not. I guess we wont know until they actually
take a chance.

"Development" <thedotnetguru********.com> wrote in message
news:uxJqmsOSHHA.5100@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> You have forgotten someting...
>
> Any new OS from Microsoft Even if it's a final release or comercial
> version you must wait until it has been tested for US and all the problems
> has been informed for US to MS....
>
> One more time..... all of the new USERS are the really PAID testers.....
>
> Also .. as a developer I never used a just released version on my machines
> I always have an spare machine to play with....
>
> Don't expect to have vista installed and run al your XP software a
> Once.....!
>
> It's MS don't forget we will have to wait until SP1 to see all our XP
> Software runing fne on Vista!!!
>
>
>
> "John McHugh" <cryptonic@phreaker.net> wrote in message
> news:440C88FE-76E1-4230-B1B9-7F4B11A22666@microsoft.com...
>> Well in this thread I hope to get a few points accross. Iv been using
>> vista for a while now and so far i can only think of a small few
>> improvements which can be made upon the game handling parts of the
>> operating system. First off the games manager. Microsoft didnt release
>> enough information on this. They should have set up a site which had a
>> list of all games fully compatable with vista rtm. along with contact
>> details for developers to contact microsoft when the game becomes
>> compatable with vista. on this list they could also declare which of
>> these games is compatable with the games browser. Which games show cover
>> art, allow parental controls. have the game saves maped along with other
>> such details as homepage link etc. To be honest Im surprized that verry
>> little, introvision darwinia so far, have relesed patches for their games
>> so make them compatable with the games explorer fully. This could also be
>> down to lack of information(official that is) about how the new system
>> works. This compatablility list could be added to gamesforwindows.com
>> along with voting on the games you want to see compatable so that games
>> developers can see enough people have interest in a title being supported
>> and support it. Now what else needs to be added or improved. Well the
>> live branding of microsoft sites seems to be interesting but to my
>> disguist the only site relatively related to microsoft for arcade games
>> is an msn one. So they build an operating system wit gaming in mind more
>> this time, borrow the live trademark the xbox video game system. Use the
>> trademark on the majority of sites except for the one you would expect. A
>> windows version of xbox 360's arcade. I dont know I was expecting
>> something like live arcade. I thought the windows marketplace would be
>> created and live arcade added. I thought it would be a simple site design
>> and that there would be a link or button on the games explorer. I was
>> mistaken. Or maybe not. I just want to clarify that all these issues
>> could quite possibly be in discussion at microsoft for quite some time.
>> after all it was the xbox360's developers that finished the project off.
>> I wouldnt be surprized if the live arcade feature comes to windows as
>> live anywhere would be a great way of distributing content on multiple
>> platforms. as in buy an arcade game on the pc and have the option to
>> download it on the 360 too. And how about a plugin for media center which
>> adds your gamertag and all the options from the 360, messanging etc. have
>> the live marketplace also accessable from media center. Well thats all im
>> going to wright on the subject right now but I will no doubt add to this
>> brainstormer later as i also would like you to add to it. What do you
>> think of vistas game features. For some too little for others too much.
>> Me well I believe if you do something you might as well do it right.
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