i just don't understand why the Smartphone UI is so poorely designed (by
MSFT).

for example, Start > Settings has 3 or 4 pages of items on separate screens,
and the only way to go through this list is to go from screen to screen
using "More..." to go to the next or pressing the BACK key to go to the
previous screen.

it would have been SOOOO much simpler and nicer to have just ONE screen with
a long scrolling list of items.

oh, yes, i know, you can select items in each screen by pressing a number
key, but frankly i would prefer loosing this feature and not having to
"think" in order to go through the list.

and now that most popular smartphones have a full keyboard, a smart
interface could recognize some letters pressed and scroll to the
corresponding item in the list - like when you look for a contact.

it looks like the UI design choices have been made based on the idea that
scroll is always very slow (not the case with today's devices).

oh, another inept UI design thing, too, in that same Settings section:

why not put "More..." on the right soft key, which is not used, rather than
map it to a digit or otherwise require two key press to get to the next
screen (up then OK)

not only this would have made Settings easier to navigate, but it would also
have freed one item in the list, i.e. better use of limited screen
real-estate.

i wonder is MSFT has competent UI experts, sometimes...

"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:OnmqXGFJHHA.1248@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>i just don't understand why the Smartphone UI is so poorely designed (by
>MSFT).
>
> for example, Start > Settings has 3 or 4 pages of items on separate
> screens, and the only way to go through this list is to go from screen to
> screen using "More..." to go to the next or pressing the BACK key to go to
> the previous screen.
>
> it would have been SOOOO much simpler and nicer to have just ONE screen
> with a long scrolling list of items.
>
> oh, yes, i know, you can select items in each screen by pressing a number
> key, but frankly i would prefer loosing this feature and not having to
> "think" in order to go through the list.
>
> and now that most popular smartphones have a full keyboard, a smart
> interface could recognize some letters pressed and scroll to the
> corresponding item in the list - like when you look for a contact.
>
> it looks like the UI design choices have been made based on the idea that
> scroll is always very slow (not the case with today's devices).
>

time has shown that solutions come from developers such as yourself who
see the need, write the solution and give or vend it to the community.

time has also proven that requests, complaints, suggestions, rants, etc
directed at ms from these and similar forums have no apparent influence
on what ms fixes or adds to it's os and products... count the [msft]
responders vs others to sample their presence here.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in
message news:%23L2JRyFJHHA.1008@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> time has shown that solutions come from developers such as yourself who
> see the need, write the solution and give or vend it to the community.

i'm talking about the UI built-in by MSFT in the device. it would not make
sense - and probably would be quite difficult - to develop a replacement for
such things as the Settings applet.

> time has also proven that requests, complaints, suggestions, rants, etc
> directed at ms from these and similar forums have no apparent influence on
> what ms fixes or adds to it's os and products...

i know, since i can see that MSFT still "doesn't get it" - and it still
making some of the least usable UI on mobile, still, after all those years.

> count the [msft] responders vs others to sample their presence here.

maybe it is time MSFT listen to the users and look at the competition.

sorry, but when i want to set-up an alarm (just a SINGLE alarm for tomorrow
morning), i can to it on my nokia without thinking, without any risk of
mis-configuration, and i am sure that i will not miss my flight. not the
case with a Smartphone.

in fact on a smartphone (and PPC) there is no easy way to setup a simple
alarm for tomorrow morning: in order to do that, you must be certain of what
day of the week is today (since you can only set alarms for particular days
of the week - so if you pick the wrong day, you are screwed), or you can set
it for all days, but then it will ring again every day unless you
reconfigure the alarm after the first day. once again, this is ugly,
compared to other devices.

At 20 Dec 2006 10:01:26 -0800 The PocketTV Team wrote:

> i'm talking about the UI built-in by MSFT in the device. it would not
make
> sense - and probably would be quite difficult - to develop a
replacement for
> such things as the Settings applet.

Agreed. But to be fair to MS, Smartphones come in many flavors-
different sized screens, different input devices (full keyboard, dialpad)
so it's challenge to create a one-UI fits all. They probably have to
think lowest common denominator in the design.


> i know, since i can see that MSFT still "doesn't get it" - and it still
> making some of the least usable UI on mobile, still, after all those
years.
>
>
> maybe it is time MSFT listen to the users and look at the competition.


While it's often cumbersome, I still haven't seen a phone UI I've really
liked yet, which leads me to believe that a good UI with a tiny screen
and a dialpad is still something of a Holy Grail.

>
> sorry, but when i want to set-up an alarm (just a SINGLE alarm for
tomorrow
> morning), i can to it on my nokia without thinking, without any risk of
> mis-configuration, and i am sure that i will not miss my flight. not
the
> case with a Smartphone.
>
> in fact on a smartphone (and PPC) there is no easy way to setup a
simple
> alarm for tomorrow morning: in order to do that, you must be certain of
what
> day of the week is today (since you can only set alarms for particular
days
> of the week - so if you pick the wrong day, you are screwed), or you
can set
> it for all days, but then it will ring again every day unless you
> reconfigure the alarm after the first day. once again, this is ugly,
> compared to other devices.
But on the otherhand, on my basic Nokias I could ONLY set up an alarm for
the next day (or later today if the alarm time hadn't passed.)
Flexibility adds complexity. On my Series 60 Nokias (3650 & 3620) alarms
had to be scheduled on the calendar- which was at least as cumbersome as
my PPC Phone if not more so.

Again, I'm not saying the MS WinMo UI is great- I'm just saying, IMHO,
it's in the middle of a pack of weak UIs.




--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:eV$lhKFJHHA.3268@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...

> why not put "More..." on the right soft key, which is not used, rather
> than map it to a digit or otherwise require two key press to get to the
> next screen (up then OK)

The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in locating
the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key not the right
soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for consistency, the Settings
screens would have to put "More" on the left soft key not the right soft
key.

Now, when you bought your Settings screens applet from Microsoft, did it
come in a package with a logo saying "Designed for Windows Mobile 5"? Of
course not. So don't expect consistency from the Settings screens.

> not only this would have made Settings easier to navigate, but it would
> also have freed one item in the list, i.e. better use of limited screen
> real-estate.

Bingo.

> i wonder is MSFT has competent UI experts, sometimes...

They sure do. Each product such as Vista or Office or Smartphone Start Menu
or Smartphone Settings Screens has a competent UI expert who watches trial
users try to deal with their product. Each expert comes up with the best
possible UI for their product. No trial user gets to try to deal with more
than one product. No expert watches another expert's trial users. No
expert talks to another expert.

> The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in
> locating the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key
> not the right soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for
> consistency, the Settings screens would have to put "More" on the left
> soft key not the right soft key.

i know, and my previous comments regarding the Settings applet also apply to
the Start applet. and in fact applarently here they improved something with
the icon layout, (an alternate to the list). in the icon layout for the
Start applet, all the icons can be scrolled through without having to select
"More..." to go to the next screen.

this is appreciable, it's just too bad they don't use that in Settings and
in many other configuration dialogs that are still based on their old stupid
paged-based lists.that don't scroll.


"Norman Diamond" <ndiamond@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:ehMSBcJJHHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
> news:eV$lhKFJHHA.3268@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>> why not put "More..." on the right soft key, which is not used, rather
>> than map it to a digit or otherwise require two key press to get to the
>> next screen (up then OK)
>
> The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in
> locating the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key
> not the right soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for
> consistency, the Settings screens would have to put "More" on the left
> soft key not the right soft key.
>
> Now, when you bought your Settings screens applet from Microsoft, did it
> come in a package with a logo saying "Designed for Windows Mobile 5"? Of
> course not. So don't expect consistency from the Settings screens.
>
>> not only this would have made Settings easier to navigate, but it would
>> also have freed one item in the list, i.e. better use of limited screen
>> real-estate.
>
> Bingo.
>
>> i wonder is MSFT has competent UI experts, sometimes...
>
> They sure do. Each product such as Vista or Office or Smartphone Start
> Menu or Smartphone Settings Screens has a competent UI expert who watches
> trial users try to deal with their product. Each expert comes up with the
> best possible UI for their product. No trial user gets to try to deal
> with more than one product. No expert watches another expert's trial
> users. No expert talks to another expert.

"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:%230oOYRKJHHA.2456@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
[Norman Diamond]
>> The reason is because Microsoft's rulebook calls for consistency in
>> locating the controls. The Start menu puts "More" on the left soft key
>> not the right soft key. In order to obey Microsoft's rules for
>> consistency, the Settings screens would have to put "More" on the left
>> soft key not the right soft key.
>
> i know, and my previous comments regarding the Settings applet also apply
> to the Start applet.

You mean you want to be consistent with Microsoft's rules for consistency
instead of Microsoft's practices?

> and in fact applarently here they improved something with the icon layout,
> (an alternate to the list). in the icon layout for the Start applet, all
> the icons can be scrolled through without having to select "More..." to go
> to the next screen.

That doesn't happen on mine. In the first Start screen, a down action from
the bottom row of icons wraps around to the top row, still in the first
Start screen, not advancing to the second Start screen. I just tried it on
two WM5 phones in two different languages, wrapping around twice just to
make sure.

> this is appreciable, it's just too bad they don't use that in Settings and
> in many other configuration dialogs that are still based on their old
> stupid paged-based lists.that don't scroll.

Consistency is the last refuge of an uncreative person. (That was probably
old when I read it 30 years ago.)

"Norman Diamond" <ndiamond@community.nospam> wrote in message
news:eVW1$KMJHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
> news:%230oOYRKJHHA.2456@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> [Norman Diamond]

> That doesn't happen on mine. In the first Start screen, a down action
> from the bottom row of icons wraps around to the top row, still in the
> first Start screen, not advancing to the second Start screen. I just
> tried it on two WM5 phones in two different languages, wrapping around
> twice just to make sure.

try with the Samsung SGH-i607 aka Cingular BlackJack, it works like i
describe. it is probably based on a more recent version of the OS, compared
to the other devices that you tried. Or maybe samsung improved the Start
screen themself?

Well, that's one of the realities with Windows Mobile. What is in your hand
is traceable to MS, but not necessarily attributable to them. The Start menu
you tend to see with nine positions, related to the nine hard key positions
is actually an OEM option. They could have stayed with the list as it was in
WM2003. There is a GPS virtual port control panel applet that is hidden by
most OEMs. Some include voice dial features, some don't. MS's Voice Command
is available to be put in ROM by OEMs. Some carriers cripple WiFi and BT
implementations. MS provides the OS, and some basic functionality, the OEMs
provide the rest. What you have in your hand is much more a Samsung device
than an MS one.

Whether the OEM changes are 'improvements' are a matter of personal
preference. I happen to like the App buttons and their layout relation to
the keypad. I find I can more quickly find an app by the icon than by
reading a list. I can see rapidly it's not on that page and hit more. Not
sure I'd like the settings list to scroll as opposed to being static and
numerically selectable.

I would guess you are welcome to write a new settings selector applet for
us. Doesn't sound like it would be that hard. Just a scrolling list that
executes other applications. Probably wouldn't be that hard to redirect the
current Settings icon in Start to your app. Don't forget to make it
compatible with every SP out there as they all have different lists of
settings. Be nice to let the consumer order the list too, alphabetize, set
to personal order, or even dynamically reorder based on use patterns. Oh,
and don't forget we want it skinnable.



--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:%23EZtKqMJHHA.1276@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
>
> try with the Samsung SGH-i607 aka Cingular BlackJack, it works like i
> describe. it is probably based on a more recent version of the OS,
> compared to the other devices that you tried. Or maybe samsung improved
> the Start screen themself?
>

>
> That doesn't happen on mine. In the first Start screen, a down action
> from the bottom row of icons wraps around to the top row, still in the
> first Start screen, not advancing to the second Start screen. I just
> tried it on two WM5 phones in two different languages, wrapping around
> twice just to make sure.
>

On my Dopod 595 smartphone,

The "#" key moves the screen forward while the "*" key moves the screen
backward.
And the number keys are mapped exactly to the position of the 9 icons on
the screen.