we found a typical case that generates many support tickets:

some people install they applications on a memory card (especially on
Smartphone where the internal flash memory is more limited).

then someday their phone have problem, so they get a replacement from the
wireless operator, and they try to run all their installed applications from
the memory card.

of course, it does not work well, because those applications were not
installed on the new phone, so any needed registry settings are not there.
but average people don't understand that they should not do that.

the problem is that the OS itself does not complains, it does not prevent
those never-installed applications from running from the SD card, and so it
is the responsability to each application to detect this situation and
display some sort of informative message telling the user:

"You are trying to run an application that was not properly installed on
your phone. even if you install an application on a memory card, the
installation process store some necessary information in the registry (which
resides in your device). if you have a new device, you NEED to re-install
all your applications using your new device."

of course, you could go on and explain people how to do a backup and
restore - if their new device is the same model as the old one, and how to
re-install applications using ActiveSync - if they used setup-files rather
than Over-The-Air CAB files to install their apps.

but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some registry
settings installed at init should detect this situation.

i agree 100%

"The PocketTV Team" wrote:

> we found a typical case that generates many support tickets:
>
> some people install they applications on a memory card (especially on
> Smartphone where the internal flash memory is more limited).
>
> then someday their phone have problem, so they get a replacement from the
> wireless operator, and they try to run all their installed applications from
> the memory card.
>
> of course, it does not work well, because those applications were not
> installed on the new phone, so any needed registry settings are not there.
> but average people don't understand that they should not do that.
>
> the problem is that the OS itself does not complains, it does not prevent
> those never-installed applications from running from the SD card, and so it
> is the responsability to each application to detect this situation and
> display some sort of informative message telling the user:
>
> "You are trying to run an application that was not properly installed on
> your phone. even if you install an application on a memory card, the
> installation process store some necessary information in the registry (which
> resides in your device). if you have a new device, you NEED to re-install
> all your applications using your new device."
>
> of course, you could go on and explain people how to do a backup and
> restore - if their new device is the same model as the old one, and how to
> re-install applications using ActiveSync - if they used setup-files rather
> than Over-The-Air CAB files to install their apps.
>
> but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some registry
> settings installed at init should detect this situation.
>
>
>
>
>

At 18 Dec 2006 09:44:21 -0800 The PocketTV Team wrote:

> but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
> registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.


Very good point, but this might be another argument that .ini files
placed in the program's install folder are preferable to registry
settings (when possible- obviously the more complex the app the more
likely reg settings are probably prudent.) Even neater would be a
program that, on startup, checks for proper installation and "fixes
itself" if not properly installed... ;-)



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Out of curiosity, does yours?

--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:eZwTlwsIHHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
> registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.
>
>
>
>

BTW, I would think that the ordinary user you postulate would be running the
app from the icon in Programs, not by navigating to the executable using
some file browser. That program icon wouldn't be there on the new phone, and
that might be a clue that it needs to be re-installed.

--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Sven" <sejohannsen********.com> wrote in message
news:O2InYLyIHHA.3668@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Out of curiosity, does yours?
>
> --
> Sven
> MVP - Mobile Devices
> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
> news:eZwTlwsIHHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>
>> but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
>> registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote:
>
>"You are trying to run an application that was not properly installed
>on your phone. even if you install an application on a memory card, the
>installation process store some necessary information in the registry
>(which resides in your device). if you have a new device, you NEED to
>re-install all your applications using your new device."
> [...]
>but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
>registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.

Obviously, I'm speaking even less for Microsoft than I normally do:
Wouldn't it be preferable if the app could silently recover from this
situation and create default values for whatever registry settings it
might need (warning the user if the keys would effect other apps)?

This seems like standard stable app development to me, but I'm curious
what others think.

--
Scott Seligman [MSFT]
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers
no rights.

"Sven" <sejohannsen********.com> wrote in message
news:O2InYLyIHHA.3668@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Out of curiosity, does yours?

until now, we did not handle this case correctly - because we did not
realize that was a case likely to happen often.

but since it does happen quite often, we have decided to handle it in our
future versions.

in fact we will detect the situation and rebuild the registry with default
settings that should allow the application to work. the application will
need to get re-activated / re-registered on the new device.

the problem is that this situation affects virtually ALL applications that
can be installed on a storage card and that set-up things in the registry
via the CAB file installation. and developers are unfortunately not aware
that this is a case to handle.

people will move storage cards (with applications installed on them) from
one device to another one, for various reasons, and they expect those apps
to work.

i pretty sure MSFT didn't include that in their "M2M Logo Certification
Program".

> Sven
> MVP - Mobile Devices
> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
> news:eZwTlwsIHHA.1240@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>
>> but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
>> registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Sven" <sejohannsen********.com> wrote in message
news:e4kOeOyIHHA.4112@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> BTW, I would think that the ordinary user you postulate would be running
> the app from the icon in Programs, not by navigating to the executable
> using some file browser. That program icon wouldn't be there on the new
> phone, and that might be a clue that it needs to be re-installed.

you have a point, but from what we see, those people are smart enough to use
the file explorer to start an application.

i completely agree with you, and that's what we have chosen to do in our
apps.

but applications cannot always recover completely if they choose to store
activation keys/codes in the registry: in that case, they would need to be
re-activated with a new key/code - and activation keys/codes often depends
on other information unique to the device, like the owner's name, so even if
it was saved in the application folder, it would not always work. but at
least, the application should reconfigure itself as it was after the initial
install.

but implementing what you suggest (i.e. silent recovery in case the
application registry keys are not found) not something that is advertized as
important in the mobile application development guidelines published by
MSFT.

and it's not as simple as it may seem and it can require significant
development to do that right in complex applications that rely on numerous
registry keys. it's definitely not just one line of code.


"Scott Seligman [MSFT]" <scosel@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:em7utu$5ab$1@panix3.panix.com...
> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote:
>>
>>"You are trying to run an application that was not properly installed
>>on your phone. even if you install an application on a memory card, the
>>installation process store some necessary information in the registry
>>(which resides in your device). if you have a new device, you NEED to
>>re-install all your applications using your new device."
>> [...]
>>but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
>>registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.
>
> Obviously, I'm speaking even less for Microsoft than I normally do:
> Wouldn't it be preferable if the app could silently recover from this
> situation and create default values for whatever registry settings it
> might need (warning the user if the keys would effect other apps)?
>
> This seems like standard stable app development to me, but I'm curious
> what others think.
>
> --
> Scott Seligman [MSFT]
> This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers
> no rights.

I suggest that a program should be able to run from an SD card. So,
you can move your program with you and plug it into another device and
done. Creating registry keys if they are missing should not be too
hard, right?
For license reasons I understand you problem.
I solve this by:
a) making the program freeware
b) use the customners email-address as part of the code

in the later case I hope people will not likely give away their email
+ code to friends that are not really good friends. And I hope that
these friends will refuse to copy to a 3rd person. If I find a license
key in the internet, the key will be disabled in next version (which
are free for download to anyone who bought once).
Just my .02$ (if at all)

"Gernot Frisch" <Me@Privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4upr0lF198nroU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> I suggest that a program should be able to run from an SD card.

but there is no requirement to do that, and other developers might not want
their applications to be easely copied to a card and passed around, as it
can make piracy easier.

> So, you can move your program with you and plug it into another device and
> done.

only if the other device is the same type, in general applications designed
for smartphones will not work on pocket pc's, and even on pocket pc,
applications designed for WM5 might not work on the older 2003 or 2002.

> Creating registry keys if they are missing should not be too hard, right?

when you have a hundred keys/values used by various independent modules, it
requires some work to make sure they are all re-created with correct default
values by each module involved. no problem if you have a small freeware with
just 10 values under your registry key.

> For license reasons I understand you problem.
> I solve this by:
> a) making the program freeware

it's sometimes difficult to pay the rent with freeware, unless you can make
enough indirect-revenus from them.

> b) use the customners email-address as part of the code

this is not always a good idea and can lead to many support tickets as
people change email quite frequently, especially with the spam issue.

> in the later case I hope people will not likely give away their email +
> code to friends that are not really good friends.

there are several better ways to protect software. for example on-line
validation with an automatic server can check that a copy is used only one
one device and disable the key if that's not the case. this does not
involves a human hunting for pirated keys on the net, which is not efficient
at all.

b

/_The PocketTV Team_ a émis l'idée suivante/ :
> when you have a hundred keys/values used by various independent modules, it
> requires some work to make sure they are all re-created with correct default
> values by each module involved. no problem if you have a small freeware with
> just 10 values under your registry key.

why re-create keys??
can't you just do:
if (keys are present) then (get values from keys) else (use default
values) ?

the license problem does not change but i think it requires less work
than recreat all keys

--
Faust
"Une âme en peine peut en cacher une autre"

> why re-create keys??
> can't you just do:
> if (keys are present) then (get values from keys) else (use default
> values) ?

it depends on your implementation, but yes, it's equivalent.

the problem is to make sure that the case of a missing key is interpreted
correctly, the problem is not to re-create (or to not recreate) the key.

unfortunately applications are rarely thourougly tested in situations that
the developer thinks are unlikely to happen. that's the source of most
un-detected bugs.

e.g. if the developer installs some registry keys in the CAB file, he will
often assume that the keys must be there (therefore their abscence would be
a rare error case, and handling it correctly might not be well tested).

while actually it appears that the case is not so rare when people change
memory cards from one device to another one.

some guy recently told me that he changed his phone, but no problem, since
he installed all the apps on his memory card, he has a full backup - so he
throught!


"Faust" <miss.me@no.where.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.9ad77d6cbd4b852d.16328@chez.moi.invalid...
> /_The PocketTV Team_ a émis l'idée suivante/ :
>> when you have a hundred keys/values used by various independent modules,
>> it requires some work to make sure they are all re-created with correct
>> default values by each module involved. no problem if you have a small
>> freeware with just 10 values under your registry key.
>
> why re-create keys??
> can't you just do:
> if (keys are present) then (get values from keys) else (use default
> values) ?
>
> the license problem does not change but i think it requires less work than
> recreat all keys
>
> --
> Faust
> "Une âme en peine peut en cacher une autre"
>
>

If full repair is too complex, at least detecting the scenario should be
easy (we're running and these keys/files/shortcuts are missing) so at that
point give a message to the user that they need to reinstall.


--
Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded World
www.opennetcf.com
--


"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:%23ppASF0IHHA.2232@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>i completely agree with you, and that's what we have chosen to do in our
>apps.
>
> but applications cannot always recover completely if they choose to store
> activation keys/codes in the registry: in that case, they would need to be
> re-activated with a new key/code - and activation keys/codes often depends
> on other information unique to the device, like the owner's name, so even
> if it was saved in the application folder, it would not always work. but
> at least, the application should reconfigure itself as it was after the
> initial install.
>
> but implementing what you suggest (i.e. silent recovery in case the
> application registry keys are not found) not something that is advertized
> as important in the mobile application development guidelines published by
> MSFT.
>
> and it's not as simple as it may seem and it can require significant
> development to do that right in complex applications that rely on numerous
> registry keys. it's definitely not just one line of code.
>
>
> "Scott Seligman [MSFT]" <scosel@online.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:em7utu$5ab$1@panix3.panix.com...
>> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>"You are trying to run an application that was not properly installed
>>>on your phone. even if you install an application on a memory card, the
>>>installation process store some necessary information in the registry
>>>(which resides in your device). if you have a new device, you NEED to
>>>re-install all your applications using your new device."
>>> [...]
>>>but i think it's important that all applications that rely on some
>>>registry settings installed at init should detect this situation.
>>
>> Obviously, I'm speaking even less for Microsoft than I normally do:
>> Wouldn't it be preferable if the app could silently recover from this
>> situation and create default values for whatever registry settings it
>> might need (warning the user if the keys would effect other apps)?
>>
>> This seems like standard stable app development to me, but I'm curious
>> what others think.
>>
>> --
>> Scott Seligman [MSFT]
>> This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers
>> no rights.
>
>

"<ctacke/>" <ctacke[@]opennetcf[dot]com> wrote in message
news:uAQLtO3IHHA.2456@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> If full repair is too complex, at least detecting the scenario should be
> easy (we're running and these keys/files/shortcuts are missing) so at that
> point give a message to the user that they need to reinstall.

yes.

but this case is overlooked too often, e.g. even MSFT logo certification
tests do not require apps to handle this case gracefully.