the side wheel present on many devices is a very nice way to navigate the
UI, but unfortunately MSFT did not do a good job taking advantage of it in
Internet Explorer.

in web pages that have controls (e.g. form buttons) located side by side (on
the same horizontal line), the wheel does not navigate through all the
controls of the web page (tested on the BlackJack Smartphone)

that's really very ennoying - as it is making the side wheel un-usable in
that case: the RIGHT and LEFT D-pad buttons must be used in that case to
select those controls.

how many years will it take to MSFT to fix those minor bugs that become
major usability issues?

I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue for device manufacturers
to resolve.

The P/ocketTV Team wrote:
> the side wheel present on many devices is a very nice way to navigate the
> UI, but unfortunately MSFT did not do a good job taking advantage of it in
> Internet Explorer.
>
> in web pages that have controls (e.g. form buttons) located side by side (on
> the same horizontal line), the wheel does not navigate through all the
> controls of the web page (tested on the BlackJack Smartphone)
>
> that's really very ennoying - as it is making the side wheel un-usable in
> that case: the RIGHT and LEFT D-pad buttons must be used in that case to
> select those controls.
>
> how many years will it take to MSFT to fix those minor bugs that become
> major usability issues?

I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue for device manufacturers
to resolve.

The P/ocketTV Team wrote:
> the side wheel present on many devices is a very nice way to navigate the
> UI, but unfortunately MSFT did not do a good job taking advantage of it in
> Internet Explorer.
>
> in web pages that have controls (e.g. form buttons) located side by side (on
> the same horizontal line), the wheel does not navigate through all the
> controls of the web page (tested on the BlackJack Smartphone)
>
> that's really very ennoying - as it is making the side wheel un-usable in
> that case: the RIGHT and LEFT D-pad buttons must be used in that case to
> select those controls.
>
> how many years will it take to MSFT to fix those minor bugs that become
> major usability issues?

"Linley Meslier" <meslierlp******.com> wrote in message
news:1166357262.395889.30180@80g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
>I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue for device manufacturers
> to resolve.

ok, then samsung did not do too good on that one.

but i think MSFT should normalize the way standard controls behave. maybe
not all devives have a wheel, but all those that do should be handle in a
standard way be the OS. it would reduce the chances that manufacturers
screw-up.

I wouldn't want to see microsoft impose device design on us. it's just
great to be able to choose among such a wide variety of design both in
terms of hardware and software. And I consider the blackjack as being
particularly attractive. Why don't you switch to htc made devices.
they're just amazing.

The PocketTV Team wrote:
> "Linley Meslier" <meslierlp******.com> wrote in message
> news:1166357262.395889.30180@80g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
> >I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue for device manufacturers
> > to resolve.
>
> ok, then samsung did not do too good on that one.
>
> but i think MSFT should normalize the way standard controls behave. maybe
> not all devives have a wheel, but all those that do should be handle in a
> standard way be the OS. it would reduce the chances that manufacturers
> screw-up.

I meant to say I don't consider the blackjack as being particularly
attractive.

Linley Meslier wrote:
> I wouldn't want to see microsoft impose device design on us. it's just
> great to be able to choose among such a wide variety of design both in
> terms of hardware and software. And I consider the blackjack as being
> particularly attractive. Why don't you switch to htc made devices.
> they're just amazing.
>
> The PocketTV Team wrote:
> > "Linley Meslier" <meslierlp******.com> wrote in message
> > news:1166357262.395889.30180@80g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
> > >I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue for device manufacturers
> > > to resolve.
> >
> > ok, then samsung did not do too good on that one.
> >
> > but i think MSFT should normalize the way standard controls behave. maybe
> > not all devives have a wheel, but all those that do should be handle in a
> > standard way be the OS. it would reduce the chances that manufacturers
> > screw-up.

If the sidewheel is a jog wheel rather than volume control, the
implimentation can be set in the registry... google groups as this was
discussed here shortly after wm5 devices began to show up.

If it's a volume control, it's tied by hardware to the phone side and
can't be reassigned.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

"Linley Meslier" <meslierlp******.com> wrote in message
news:1166369100.939259.129700@j72g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> I wouldn't want to see microsoft impose device design on us. it's just
> great to be able to choose among such a wide variety of design both in
> terms of hardware and software. And I consider the blackjack as being
> particularly attractive. Why don't you switch to htc made devices.
> they're just amazing.

Completely agree. Since MS seems to be screwing
up more than getting it right these days, the more "open"
anything it does is, the more likely we USERS are going to
be able to correct said screw-ups.


>
> The PocketTV Team wrote:
> > "Linley Meslier" <meslierlp******.com> wrote in message
> > news:1166357262.395889.30180@80g2000cwy.googlegrou ps.com...
> > >I may be wrong but I believe this is an issue for device manufacturers
> > > to resolve.
> >
> > ok, then samsung did not do too good on that one.
> >
> > but i think MSFT should normalize the way standard controls behave.
maybe
> > not all devives have a wheel, but all those that do should be handle in
a
> > standard way be the OS. it would reduce the chances that manufacturers
> > screw-up.
>

Hi, I'm Bob, I think the side scroll wheel should navigate between controls
on a form
Hi, I'm John, I think the side scroll wheel should scroll up and down by
pages
Hi, I'm Steve, I think the side scroll wheel should replace forward and back
on web pages
Hi, I think the we should let MS [Samsung, HTC, HP, Motorola] decide what's
best.

Uh-huh

I'd go for letting the user decide, via control panel options, or at least
opening the api's so that some third party can provide those options.
--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:%23mmFedYIHHA.1064@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> the side wheel present on many devices is a very nice way to navigate the
> UI, but unfortunately MSFT did not do a good job taking advantage of it in
> Internet Explorer.
>
> in web pages that have controls (e.g. form buttons) located side by side
> (on the same horizontal line), the wheel does not navigate through all the
> controls of the web page (tested on the BlackJack Smartphone)
>
> that's really very ennoying - as it is making the side wheel un-usable in
> that case: the RIGHT and LEFT D-pad buttons must be used in that case to
> select those controls.
>
> how many years will it take to MSFT to fix those minor bugs that become
> major usability issues?
>

i don't disagree with all of you, but then at least MSFT should provide a
way for the side wheel (or jog/scroll) to do each of that.

some of you seem to say that by hacking the registry, i can get the side
wheel to do what i want. i'm not so sure.

for example, if IE requires q RIGHT and LEFT virtual key even to move
between controls located on the same horizontal line, as it seems to be the
case in WM5, then i don't seem that you can get the side wheel to navigate
between controls on a form (as Bob and I would prefer).

that's why I am saying the this issue should be resolved by MSFT, i.e. at
least they should design the IE API so that the side wheel could be used to
navigate between all the controls in a web form (if the user / manufacturer
prefer that).


"Sven" <sejohannsen********.com> wrote in message
news:utrSg6gIHHA.3268@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Hi, I'm Bob, I think the side scroll wheel should navigate between
> controls on a form
> Hi, I'm John, I think the side scroll wheel should scroll up and down by
> pages
> Hi, I'm Steve, I think the side scroll wheel should replace forward and
> back on web pages
> Hi, I think the we should let MS [Samsung, HTC, HP, Motorola] decide
> what's best.
>
> Uh-huh
>
> I'd go for letting the user decide, via control panel options, or at least
> opening the api's so that some third party can provide those options.
> --
> Sven
> MVP - Mobile Devices
> "The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
> news:%23mmFedYIHHA.1064@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> the side wheel present on many devices is a very nice way to navigate the
>> UI, but unfortunately MSFT did not do a good job taking advantage of it
>> in Internet Explorer.
>>
>> in web pages that have controls (e.g. form buttons) located side by side
>> (on the same horizontal line), the wheel does not navigate through all
>> the controls of the web page (tested on the BlackJack Smartphone)
>>
>> that's really very ennoying - as it is making the side wheel un-usable in
>> that case: the RIGHT and LEFT D-pad buttons must be used in that case to
>> select those controls.
>>
>> how many years will it take to MSFT to fix those minor bugs that become
>> major usability issues?
>>
>
>

"Linley Meslier" <meslierlp******.com> wrote in message
news:1166369259.125256.16770@79g2000cws.googlegrou ps.com...
>I meant to say I don't consider the blackjack as being particularly
> attractive.


yes, to begin with, the BlackJack has a serious design flaw: its D-Pad.

see http://www.modaco.com/D-Pad-a-seriou...w-t250367.html

"The PocketTV Team" <support@pockettv.com> wrote in message
news:%23kOQXakIHHA.3424@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...

>
> some of you seem to say that by hacking the registry, i can get the side
> wheel to do what i want. i'm not so sure.
>
Don't know that that's not true.
>
> that's why I am saying the this issue should be resolved by MSFT, i.e. at
> least they should design the IE API so that the side wheel could be used
> to navigate between all the controls in a web form (if the user /
> manufacturer prefer that).
>
Just for arguments sake, are you sure it would be the PIE api that needs
fixing? What you are talking about is an external input that causes some
action in PIE. I think the action is already there and available. You
mention there is already a hardware function that does what you want, just
not from the hardware you want.. Wouldn't it be a matter of directing the
output of the wheel driver to that input of PIE? The hardware drivers are
typically the OEM responsibility I believe.

Just a discussion point. Not intended as a counter or defense.
--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices

>> that's why I am saying the this issue should be resolved by MSFT, i.e. at
>> least they should design the IE API so that the side wheel could be used
>> to navigate between all the controls in a web form (if the user /
>> manufacturer prefer that).
>>
> Just for arguments sake, are you sure it would be the PIE api that needs
> fixing?

well, if PIE requires that the D-Pad LEFT and RIGHT virtual keys be sent in
order to navigate between controls located on the same horizontal line, then
yes, PIE would need to be modified.

because the right wheel/jog control will send the D-Pad UP and DOWN virtual
keys, i.e the equivalent of the UP and DOWN D-Pad. The manufacturer can
cause the wheel/jog control to send other virtual key messages, but that is
useful only if the applications can interpret them correctly.

> What you are talking about is an external input that causes some action in
> PIE. I think the action is already there and available. You mention there
> is already a hardware function that does what you want, just not from the
> hardware you want..

yes. D-pad can send 4 directional messages. jog can only send 2 of those
4. if IE relies on 4 for navigation, and cannot go through all the control
on a web form using only the two directional messages sent by the jog, then
it won't work.

> Wouldn't it be a matter of directing the output of the wheel driver to
> that input of PIE?

it's already doing that. PIE received the virtual key messages sent by the
wheel/jog, of course.

> The hardware drivers are typically the OEM responsibility I believe.

that's not the point. if the IE API does not allow navigation through all
the controls using only two directional messages, then you will naver be
able to make a driver that does it. the API has to allow it, and then you
can take advantage of this with a driver.

>
> well, if PIE requires that the D-Pad LEFT and RIGHT virtual keys be sent
> in order to navigate between controls located on the same horizontal line,
> then yes, PIE would need to be modified.
>

I disagree. Microsoft should not modify PIE to enable specific hardware.
If they did it would be an endless job, as new hardware with other inputs
sending other keys would be have to be taken into account with every device
that is released.

It much cleaner and safer for the device OEM to alter the driver for the
hardware. They should make the hardware mappable, where you can
programmatically or through the registry change the virtual keys that each
direction of the wheel sends.

This is most certainly an OEM issue.


--
Chris Tacke
OpenNETCF Consulting
Managed Code in the Embedded World
www.opennetcf.com
--

Curosity question...

Since you never sign any of your posts and your email address identifies
yours as a "team" of a well known ppc application which has no
information about people on their site... who are you?

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]