Because HTC has decided to drop the D-pad on some of their new phones just
what do you use the D-pad for anyway?

I can think of a few things I use the D-pad for.

1. To navigate links on a Web page.

2. To navigate contacts with up and down and if a contact has more than one
phone number the left and right select which number.

3. To wake up the phone when the screen has gone dim. That is safer than
tapping on the screen somewhere to wake it up.

4. After changing an option in WMP I use the D-pad to blank the screen and
save battery power.

5. Talking about WMP I use the D-pad a lot with WMP for volume, next track
or previous track.

I'm sure there are other programs where the D-pad is very handy and I can't
figure out why HTC decided to remove it,

Any input?

"Roger 2008" <rwpcs@att.net> wrote in message
news:raGdnVktObcU_-3XnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Because HTC has decided to drop the D-pad on some of their new phones just
> what do you use the D-pad for anyway?
>
> I can think of a few things I use the D-pad for.
>
> 1. To navigate links on a Web page.
>
> 2. To navigate contacts with up and down and if a contact has more than
> one
> phone number the left and right select which number.
>
> 3. To wake up the phone when the screen has gone dim. That is safer than
> tapping on the screen somewhere to wake it up.
>
> 4. After changing an option in WMP I use the D-pad to blank the screen
> and
> save battery power.
>
> 5. Talking about WMP I use the D-pad a lot with WMP for volume, next
> track
> or previous track.
>
> I'm sure there are other programs where the D-pad is very handy and I
> can't
> figure out why HTC decided to remove it,
>
> Any input?

Lack of a dpad (or a reasonable facsimile, like a touchpad or trackball) is
a deal breaker for me. I can't get excited about devices like the Touch Pro
2 that everyone else is seeming in love with. I'm all for larger screens
and making devices more finger-friendly, but that doesn't mean eliminating
other forms of input is a good idea. Buttons and dpads make devices easier
to operate with one hand- easy one-handed operation is probably my "killer
app" for dpads, but I concur with everything on your list- particularly
navigating in a browser, and media controls and screen blanking in media
players (Coreplayer and TCPMP have a handy 10 second skip ahead/back you can
map to the dpad. Very handy when I quickly rip recorded TV shows to play on
my device. I don't even bother wasting time editing out commercials first
since I can so easily skip them in Coreplayer.)

IMO, this new buttonless form factor is just a case of mimicking the wrong
aspects of competitors' devices. HTC (any everyone else) seems to be saying
"the iPhone is a sucessful product, so let's make our devices LOOK more like
that." Personally, I don't think the ommission of a dpad is what fuels the
iPhone's success. Regardless, the iPhone was designed ground-up to utilize
its buttonless form factor. Windows Mobile was not, so a lack of a dpad is
guaranteed to "break" older third-party programs that rely on navigational
button input, like games, and just reduce the overall usability of the
device. Fragmenting the Windows Mobile market into a pile of devices with
different GUIs and input methods is guaranteed to cause headaches for
developers, and send them screaming to other platforms. It was bad enough
they had to contend with the Standard/Professional schism, but now the
"Professional" platform is further splintered into devices with and without
directional controls, with and without accelerometers, etc. Microsoft needs
to rigidly define a "minimum" hardware/control spec which OEMs can then add
to if they like. (If they have, and hardware navigational control is now
optional, then they need to rethink that decision pronto!)

As I've joked before, I may be destined to use my AT&T Tilt a lot longer
than I originally intended! (Listen to me! Soon I'll be grousing along
with Bev Howard about how they don't make WinMo devices like they used to!
Give us a few years and we'll both be hunkered down in a Ted Kaczynski-shack
huddled over our then-obsolete devices posting sarcastic missives to this
newsgroup complaining Microsoft, HTC, et al, have lost their way.) ;)

I often say that my perfect WinMo phone would be something like a Dell Axim
X51v with a phone built in- big, beautiful screen, with lots of buttons, a
big battery and lots of full-sized expansion slots. Hopefully some OEMs
won't forget the folks like me who DON'T want an "iPhoney" as time goes by.

I was intrigued by HP's upcoming "Obsidian" phone- it's a touchscreen WinMo
device in a QWERTY bar style normally used by non-touch devices like the
Moto Q, HTC Excalibur, Snap, etc. I loved the feel of my wife's old Dash in
my hand, but lack of WinMo Professional/touch screen was the deal breaker
for me. (The Wizard-style 200MHz OMAP processor and 64MB RAM didn't do it
any favors either, but it was a good device in its day.)

I've toyed with the idea of buying a Pharos Traveler 619 just for giggles:
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/p...9&sku=A2296416 ,
a bit outdated, but it's the pioneer of the HP Obsidian-style QWERTY bar
with touchscreen form-factor. It even has my sorely-missed IR port, but is
a Wizard/Excalibur-era 200MHz OMAP/64MB device. For $200 unlocked, though,
it's a steal. When my Wizard died (BTW, even before it died, I had mostly
worn out the "down" direction of the dpad by overuse!) I considered the
Pharos 619 before settling on the Tilt. In the end, the faster processor
and extra RAM won out over the Excalibur-like form-factor and IR port.

Maybe I'm just picky, but even in the field of 50+ WinMo devices out there,
I can't find my ideal device. In fact, in a contest sponsored by
Microsoft's Windows Mobile Training website (a website for mobile sales
professions I participate in) I recently won as a prize my choice of any
currently available unlocked GSM Windows Mobile device valued at up to $500.
I couldn't find anything I wanted, and opted for an Amazon.com gift card
instead. (I figured I could use it to subsidize a more expensive WinMo
device that had the features I wanted. It's still sitting in my Amazon
account unused!)

The iPhone doesn't have one, so obviously the public doesn't want, or need,
one.

"Roger 2008" <rwpcs@att.net> wrote in message
news:raGdnVktObcU_-3XnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@giganews.com...

> I'm sure there are other programs where the D-pad is very handy and I
> can't
> figure out why HTC decided to remove it,

Right, just a wheel.

"THE Wheel"


Sven wrote:
> The iPhone doesn't have one, so obviously the public doesn't want, or
> need, one.
>
> "Roger 2008" <rwpcs@att.net> wrote in message
> news:raGdnVktObcU_-3XnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>> I'm sure there are other programs where the D-pad is very handy and I
>> can't
>> figure out why HTC decided to remove it,

Assume it's primarily a cost issue, then style and copying the i...

The lack of cursor buttons is a huge detriment to serious usability.

Beverly Howard

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in message
news:%23yC0MkHEKHA.5780@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>
> Lack of a dpad (or a reasonable facsimile, like a touchpad or trackball)
is
> a deal breaker for me. I can't get excited about devices like the Touch
Pro
> 2 that everyone else is seeming in love with. I'm all for larger screens
> and making devices more finger-friendly, but that doesn't mean eliminating
> other forms of input is a good idea.

Well, it isn't a total lose. The Touch Pro will have a "Zoom Bar" so you
can use one finger to do what takes two fingers to do on the i. See page 51
of the following:

http://member.america.htc.com/downlo...MUS_WWE_UM.pdf

NPR article on ebooks this morning and the reporter noted that she found
herself trying to turn her kindle pages by stroking the upper right
corner of the unit...

....wonder how much positive publicity an oem could garner by including a
touch sensor in the upper right corner of a reader capable device ;-)

Beverly Howard

"Beverly Howard" <Bev@NoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in message
news:%235xLfkIFKHA.3480@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> NPR article on ebooks this morning and the reporter noted that she found
> herself trying to turn her kindle pages by stroking the upper right corner
> of the unit...
>
> ...wonder how much positive publicity an oem could garner by including a
> touch sensor in the upper right corner of a reader capable device ;-)
>
> Beverly Howard

Since that's where some WinMo devices put the video calling camera, it might
not be too hard to program an eBook reader to do that. The camera could be
turned on when the reader is in operation, and a quick "blackness" (when
your thumb or finger brushes past and temporarily covers the lens) could
trigger the page turn. Probably wouldn't work well in bed, though...

An excellent suggestion Bev!

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Beverly Howard" <Bev@NoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in message
>news:%235xLfkIFKHA.3480@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> NPR article on ebooks this morning and the reporter noted that she found
>> herself trying to turn her kindle pages by stroking the upper right corner
>> of the unit...
>>
>> ...wonder how much positive publicity an oem could garner by including a
>> touch sensor in the upper right corner of a reader capable device ;-)
>>
>> Beverly Howard
>
>Since that's where some WinMo devices put the video calling camera, it might
>not be too hard to program an eBook reader to do that. The camera could be
>turned on when the reader is in operation, and a quick "blackness" (when
>your thumb or finger brushes past and temporarily covers the lens) could
>trigger the page turn. Probably wouldn't work well in bed, though...

The camera seems like overkill to me. Touch the bottom half the
screen to go down, the top half to go up, minus some border on one
side to bring up the menu.

I was playing with using the motion sensors to turn the page (make a
turning gesture with the entire device to turn the page). That
feature failed rather spectacularly on a recent bumpy bus trip :)

--
--------- Scott Seligman <scott at <firstname> and michelle dot net> ---------
Music hath charms to soothe the savage breast, to soften rocks, or
bend a knotted oak.
-- The Mourning Bride by William Congreve

On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:53:46 -0500, Beverly Howard
<Bev@NoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:

>Assume it's primarily a cost issue, then style and copying the i...

I'm pretty sure I heard a claim that the DPad is not necessary with UI
that makes finger control easy. And it adds bulk to the device. Would
a DPad help iPhone users enough to justify the extra cost and bulk? I
sure don't think _current_ Windows Mobile UI can do without it.


>
>The lack of cursor buttons is a huge detriment to serious usability.
>
>Beverly Howard

-----------------------------------------
To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and please indicate which newsgroup and message).

Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
PenFact, Inc.
20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
Boston, MA 02116
www.penfact.com

squeaky wheel gets the grease ;-)

Beverly Howard

At 04 Aug 2009 13:32:17 -0400 r_z_aret@pen_fact.com wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:53:46 -0500, Beverly Howard
> <Bev@NoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
>
> >Assume it's primarily a cost issue, then style and copying the i...
>
> I'm pretty sure I heard a claim that the DPad is not necessary with UI
> that makes finger control easy. And it adds bulk to the device. Would
> a DPad help iPhone users enough to justify the extra cost and bulk? I
> sure don't think _current_ Windows Mobile UI can do without it.


Since the iPhone was designed from ground-up as a finger-only UI, I doubt
a dpad would help it much. WinMo, however, wasn't. Even if you assume
the WinMo OEM bolts on a peachy-keen touch-based UI that makes a dpad
completely redundant, I have to think the lack of any navigation controls
would break compatibility with many 3rd-party apps.

On the iphone I would at least like to see cursor buttons on the on-screen
keyboard. It is virtually impossible to position the cursor accurately
within text. With the finger typing as crappy as it is, for me anyway, I
often notice a mistake a few letters back. I have never managed to get the
cursor where I need it to backspace over a character. With the copy and
paste feature now in 3.0, it typically assesses the attempt to position the
cursor as wanting to highlight and do one of those brand new innovative
functions. So I wind up backspacing almost as much as I type. Give me a
stylus, (even with Transcriber) or a real keyboard any day I actually need
to enter something on my iPhone.

So, take that as an endorsement of a D-Pad, especially if you don't get an
up,down,left,right option some other way.


<r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:hmrg759erd4h5cchu0b1ohpvh1v5eomrsm@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:53:46 -0500, Beverly Howard
> <Bev@NoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
>
>>Assume it's primarily a cost issue, then style and copying the i...
>
> I'm pretty sure I heard a claim that the DPad is not necessary with UI
> that makes finger control easy. And it adds bulk to the device. Would
> a DPad help iPhone users enough to justify the extra cost and bulk? I
> sure don't think _current_ Windows Mobile UI can do without it.
>
>
>>
>>The lack of cursor buttons is a huge detriment to serious usability.
>>
>>Beverly Howard
>
> -----------------------------------------
> To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
> please indicate which newsgroup and message).
>
> Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
> PenFact, Inc.
> 20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
> Boston, MA 02116
> www.penfact.com

>> at least like to see cursor buttons <<

Agreed, but a big part of the problem is understanding how the designers
set up editing.

The "magnifying glass" is still confusing to me, but it does help once
it's up.

Beverly Howard

Here's a trick it took me several months to accidentally discover on my
wife's iToy:

When you want to position the cursor in a piece of text, like a mistyped
URL, hold your finger on the text for a few "Mississippi", and a little
magnifying glass pops up with the area your finger is covering enlarged
inside. Now lift your finger and place it in the magnifying glass where
you want the cursor placed.

So intuitive, eh?


As I often joke, we use styli instead of fingers on touchscreens for the
same reason we write with pens instead of fingerpaints.


At 04 Aug 2009 20:30:09 -0600 Sven wrote:
> On the iphone I would at least like to see cursor buttons on the on-
> screen keyboard. It is virtually impossible to position the cursor
> accurately within text. With the finger typing as crappy as it is, for
> me anyway, I often notice a mistake a few letters back. I have never
> managed to get the cursor where I need it to backspace over a
> character. With the copy and paste feature now in 3.0, it typically
> assesses the attempt to position the cursor as wanting to highlight and
> do one of those brand new innovative functions. So I wind up
> backspacing almost as much as I type. Give me a stylus, (even with
> Transcriber) or a real keyboard any day I actually need to enter
> something on my iPhone.
>
> So, take that as an endorsement of a D-Pad, especially if you don't get
> an up,down,left,right option some other way.
>
>
> <r_z_aret@pen_fact.com> wrote in message
news:hmrg759erd4h5cchu0b1ohpvh1v5eomrsm@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:53:46 -0500, Beverly Howard
> > <Bev@NoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Assume it's primarily a cost issue, then style and copying the i...
> >
> > I'm pretty sure I heard a claim that the DPad is not necessary with UI
> > that makes finger control easy. And it adds bulk to the device. Would
> > a DPad help iPhone users enough to justify the extra cost and bulk? I
> > sure don't think _current_ Windows Mobile UI can do without it.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>The lack of cursor buttons is a huge detriment to serious usability.
> >>
> >>Beverly Howard
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > To reply to me, remove the underscores (_) from my email address (and
please indicate which newsgroup and message).
> >
> > Robert E. Zaret, eMVP
> > PenFact, Inc.
> > 20 Park Plaza, Suite 400
> > Boston, MA 02116
> > www.penfact.com
>
>