I am still confused about WM5's handling of applications. When you
click the corner X, it does not close the application. It minimizes it.
How come? It doesn't even feel like Windows because even Windows 95
(which is what WM is built on, right?) has Minimize (_), Maximize ([]),
and Close (X) buttons.
My complaint is that after opening and "X'ing" a few apps, the whole
device slows down and I need to go into Start -> Memory and close apps.
Then it's back to its normal self again.

Sometime it even freezes and if someone calls, then I hear the ring but
can't answer, because it's frozen. I'm probably making a big leap here
but it seems like the slowdowns and stops are symptoms of the same
problem.

Ugh.


Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
something I need to learn to live with?

"Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>
> Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
> something I need to learn to live with?
>

There are plenty of 3rd party apps (free "magic button", others) that do
actually close an app when you click on the x. Also doing ctrl-Q will close
the app.

But I also feel that it was shortsightedness on the part of the developers
to not have the app close by default, since there are many 3rd party apps
that use the device in ways that was not originally considered.

3rd part programs allow you to close programs with the X. I personally use
Spb Pocket plus which adds lots more functionality. There are other
programs that only give you that function but I personally am not familiar
with them.

--
Edgar

"Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>I am still confused about WM5's handling of applications. When you
> click the corner X, it does not close the application. It minimizes it.
> How come? It doesn't even feel like Windows because even Windows 95
> (which is what WM is built on, right?) has Minimize (_), Maximize ([]),
> and Close (X) buttons.
> My complaint is that after opening and "X'ing" a few apps, the whole
> device slows down and I need to go into Start -> Memory and close apps.
> Then it's back to its normal self again.
>
> Sometime it even freezes and if someone calls, then I hear the ring but
> can't answer, because it's frozen. I'm probably making a big leap here
> but it seems like the slowdowns and stops are symptoms of the same
> problem.
>
> Ugh.
>
>
> Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
> something I need to learn to live with?
>



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Hi Justin,

"Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

> How come? It doesn't even feel like Windows because even Windows 95
> (which is what WM is built on, right?

No, Windows Mobile 5.0 is not built on top of Windows 95.

The behavior that you see is by design. In fact, I _think_ that a 3rd party
developer, in order to meet the windows mobile logo requirements has to
design the application in such a way that it is only minimized when the user
presses the "X" button. Anyway, as far as I know, the original idea was that
the system only minimized an application instead of closing it to gain some
time when you would "re-open" it (having it already running the system would
just switch back to it.) ; only when the system resources would be low,
would the OS start/prompt you to stop some of the already running
applications.

Marius

Cool. Thanks for the pointers!!!!

xTenn wrote:
> "Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
> news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
> > something I need to learn to live with?
> >
>
> There are plenty of 3rd party apps (free "magic button", others) that do
> actually close an app when you click on the x. Also doing ctrl-Q will close
> the app.
>
> But I also feel that it was shortsightedness on the part of the developers
> to not have the app close by default, since there are many 3rd party apps
> that use the device in ways that was not originally considered.

I will check out Spb Pocket plus. Thanks for the tip there. I'm bummed
that this is not configurable from within the OS as it was released.
It's not like it's a Release Candidate version of the OS, and it's not
even the first generation of Windows Mobile =[. Hope they get this
right the next time around.


Edgar wrote:
> 3rd part programs allow you to close programs with the X. I personally use
> Spb Pocket plus which adds lots more functionality. There are other
> programs that only give you that function but I personally am not familiar
> with them.
>
> --
> Edgar
>
> "Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
> news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >I am still confused about WM5's handling of applications. When you
> > click the corner X, it does not close the application. It minimizes it.
> > How come? It doesn't even feel like Windows because even Windows 95
> > (which is what WM is built on, right?) has Minimize (_), Maximize ([]),
> > and Close (X) buttons.
> > My complaint is that after opening and "X'ing" a few apps, the whole
> > device slows down and I need to go into Start -> Memory and close apps.
> > Then it's back to its normal self again.
> >
> > Sometime it even freezes and if someone calls, then I hear the ring but
> > can't answer, because it's frozen. I'm probably making a big leap here
> > but it seems like the slowdowns and stops are symptoms of the same
> > problem.
> >
> > Ugh.
> >
> >
> > Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
> > something I need to learn to live with?
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Marius Prisecaru wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> No, Windows Mobile 5.0 is not built on top of Windows 95.

Can't remember where I saw this. I might be mistaking Windows Mobile
with Windows CE here.

> The behavior that you see is by design. In fact, I _think_ that a 3rd party
> developer, in order to meet the windows mobile logo requirements has to
> design the application in such a way that it is only minimized when the user
> presses the "X" button.

That part makes sense. I'm not a software developer by any stretch, but
I understand that in a modern OS you want a consistent experience
across the board.

> Anyway, as far as I know, the original idea was that
> the system only minimized an application instead of closing it to gain some
> time when you would "re-open" it (having it already running the system would
> just switch back to it.) ;

This is where they lost me.

> only when the system resources would be low,
> would the OS start/prompt you to stop some of the already running
> applications.

By the time it gets this far, my $600 phone is borderline useless. I
have to do a soft restart to get out of this stage because both the
Today screen and the Start menu is slow, has pieces missing, and
doesn't respond to stylus clicks.

Anyways thanks for the insight, Marius, and everyone else. I have some
options to explore, and I'll probably post a blog entry once I've
landed on a solution.

Hi Justin,

"Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
news:1168635771.202222.210740@v45g2000cwv.googlegr oups.com...
> Marius Prisecaru wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> No, Windows Mobile 5.0 is not built on top of Windows 95.
>
> Can't remember where I saw this. I might be mistaking Windows Mobile
> with Windows CE here.

Here is a short summary of WM5/WCE5: Windows Mobile 5.0 is "Windows CE 5.0"
"configured" in a certain way. Fortunately, Windows CE 3/4/5 are true 32bit
operating systems (as opposed to Windows 95/98); their kernel has been
written from scratch.

Marius

"xTenn" <xTennRemoveThisPart@tds.net> schreef in bericht
news:eEZuf1nNHHA.4172@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> "Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
> news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >
> > Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
> > something I need to learn to live with?
> >
>
> There are plenty of 3rd party apps (free "magic button", others) that do
> actually close an app when you click on the x. Also doing ctrl-Q will
close
> the app.
>
> But I also feel that it was shortsightedness on the part of the developers
> to not have the app close by default, since there are many 3rd party apps
> that use the device in ways that was not originally considered.



It's incomprehensible that one needs 3rd party software just to make an OS
work normally. The way Windows Mobile 2003 "works" seems quite bizarre...




(PDA novice)
--
regards,

|\ /|
| \/ |@rk
\../
\/os

mccm dot vos at hccnet dot nl
http://home.hccnet.nl/mccm.vos/

ICQ 326628

For you and others, who think it is a bug, or complain it is inconsistent
because it is not like your desktop, or have some form of hope it will be
different in the next release, you might want to read

http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...-No-Close.aspx

Is it what you want to hear? Probably not. Are you free to disagree? Most
certainly. Will it matter? Probably not.



Personally I use Pocket Plus ;)

--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Linea Recta" <mccm.vos@abc.invalid> wrote in message
news:45a80d0e$0$330$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> "xTenn" <xTennRemoveThisPart@tds.net> schreef in bericht
> news:eEZuf1nNHHA.4172@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
>> news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >
>> > Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
>> > something I need to learn to live with?
>> >
>>
>> There are plenty of 3rd party apps (free "magic button", others) that do
>> actually close an app when you click on the x. Also doing ctrl-Q will
> close
>> the app.
>>
>> But I also feel that it was shortsightedness on the part of the
>> developers
>> to not have the app close by default, since there are many 3rd party apps
>> that use the device in ways that was not originally considered.
>
>
>
> It's incomprehensible that one needs 3rd party software just to make an OS
> work normally. The way Windows Mobile 2003 "works" seems quite bizarre...
>
>
>
>
> (PDA novice)
> --
> regards,
>
> |\ /|
> | \/ |@rk
> \../
> \/os
>
> mccm dot vos at hccnet dot nl
> http://home.hccnet.nl/mccm.vos/
>
> ICQ 326628
>
>

At 12 Jan 2007 12:44:53 -0800 Justin Brown - SYNACS wrote:
> I will check out Spb Pocket plus. Thanks for the tip there. I'm bummed
> that this is not configurable from within the OS as it was released.
> It's not like it's a Release Candidate version of the OS, and it's not
> even the first generation of Windows Mobile =[. Hope they get this
> right the next time around.
It's a design decision- not a bug, and it's been this way as long as
there have been PPCs. In the minds of the developers, it's already
"right."
For a free and effective task-switcher/-ender try VBar from Vieka. It
allows you close apps with the X, and only takes up 20kb on the device.





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Thanks for your input, although nobody called it a bug.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> It's a design decision- not a bug, and it's been this way as long as
> there have been PPCs. In the minds of the developers, it's already
> "right."
> For a free and effective task-switcher/-ender try VBar from Vieka. It
> allows you close apps with the X, and only takes up 20kb on the device.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Sven,

Thanks for the thoughts. I went ahead and read that blog. It's somebody
took the time and offered some background on this, official or not.

But just to take a quotation from that entry, MikeCal wrote "our
philosophical reason for not closing apps was the belief that users
shouldn't need to manage their memory." Fair enough. These developers
at Microsoft do a great job, but in this scenario, the system is
intentionally crippled. It's not that the default behavior is unsavory,
but rather that the default behavior is the user's only choice. Yuck.

Another quote on his statement that "users shouldn't need to manage
their memory" -- (he's being a facetious here) "You can tell me that in
some cases we do a fine job, but in the cases when we don't, the
world comes to a screeching halt, time goes backwards, and history is
rewritten to be somehow more dark and foreboding than it already is."
Well, thanks but I don't want to "need" to manage my memory. I want the
option to close the program with one click. That's called usability.
And no the world doesn't come to a screeching halt, just my GD phone
does for crying out loud. Sorry but that's how I feel about it when the
phone rings and my UI doesn't allow me to answer. I only get upset
about it because I don't believe it *has* to be that way!

Thanks for listening.



Sven wrote:
> For you and others, who think it is a bug, or complain it is inconsistent
> because it is not like your desktop, or have some form of hope it will be
> different in the next release, you might want to read
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...-No-Close.aspx
>
> Is it what you want to hear? Probably not. Are you free to disagree? Most
> certainly. Will it matter? Probably not.
>
>
>
> Personally I use Pocket Plus ;)
>
> --
> Sven
> MVP - Mobile Devices
> "Linea Recta" <mccm.vos@abc.invalid> wrote in message
> news:45a80d0e$0$330$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
> > "xTenn" <xTennRemoveThisPart@tds.net> schreef in bericht
> > news:eEZuf1nNHHA.4172@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> >>
> >> "Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
> >> > something I need to learn to live with?
> >> >
> >>
> >> There are plenty of 3rd party apps (free "magic button", others) that do
> >> actually close an app when you click on the x. Also doing ctrl-Q will
> > close
> >> the app.
> >>
> >> But I also feel that it was shortsightedness on the part of the
> >> developers
> >> to not have the app close by default, since there are many 3rd party apps
> >> that use the device in ways that was not originally considered.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's incomprehensible that one needs 3rd party software just to make an OS
> > work normally. The way Windows Mobile 2003 "works" seems quite bizarre...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (PDA novice)
> > --
> > regards,
> >
> > |\ /|
> > | \/ |@rk
> > \../
> > \/os
> >
> > mccm dot vos at hccnet dot nl
> > http://home.hccnet.nl/mccm.vos/
> >
> > ICQ 326628
> >
> >

I'm going to try VBar as Todd suggested. I'm in the mood for something
free (spent enough on the phone & accessories -- Sprint PPC-6700).

Thanks again, guys.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> For a free and effective task-switcher/-ender try VBar from Vieka. It
> allows you close apps with the X, and only takes up 20kb on the device.

You'll note I didn't say you were likely to like the answer. It really only
serves to explain why it is the way it is. I can tell you from personal
experience, that it is unlikely to change. Note that I don't work for MS,
Mike does. I can tell you there has been some softening. Initially a program
that wanted a 'designed for Pocket PC' couldn't even have an 'exit' in the
menu. I understand that is no longer the case. Maybe when everyone in the
beauracracy that was involved in the design decision has moved on, and
no-one recalls why they did it that way, it will change.

Until then, I use PocketPlus*, and avoid the high blood pressure and ulcers
thinking too much about it causes. Incidentally though, I do leave the
functionality set to minimize, and require a tap and hold to actually close
things. I don't find the serious slowdowns you seem to see under normal
circumstances. Possibly you have too many apps loaded to memory as opposed
to a flash card, limiting the amount of memory the device has to work with
to begin with.

* P.S. there are great free options out there too. I just like the other
things PocketPlus does on top of the task management.
--
Sven
MVP - Mobile Devices
"Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
news:1168706442.404822.147250@11g2000cwr.googlegro ups.com...
> Sven,
>
> Thanks for the thoughts. I went ahead and read that blog. It's somebody
> took the time and offered some background on this, official or not.
>
> But just to take a quotation from that entry, MikeCal wrote "our
> philosophical reason for not closing apps was the belief that users
> shouldn't need to manage their memory." Fair enough. These developers
> at Microsoft do a great job, but in this scenario, the system is
> intentionally crippled. It's not that the default behavior is unsavory,
> but rather that the default behavior is the user's only choice. Yuck.
>
> Another quote on his statement that "users shouldn't need to manage
> their memory" -- (he's being a facetious here) "You can tell me that in
> some cases we do a fine job, but in the cases when we don't, the
> world comes to a screeching halt, time goes backwards, and history is
> rewritten to be somehow more dark and foreboding than it already is."
> Well, thanks but I don't want to "need" to manage my memory. I want the
> option to close the program with one click. That's called usability.
> And no the world doesn't come to a screeching halt, just my GD phone
> does for crying out loud. Sorry but that's how I feel about it when the
> phone rings and my UI doesn't allow me to answer. I only get upset
> about it because I don't believe it *has* to be that way!
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
>
>
> Sven wrote:
>> For you and others, who think it is a bug, or complain it is inconsistent
>> because it is not like your desktop, or have some form of hope it will be
>> different in the next release, you might want to read
>>
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/...-No-Close.aspx
>>
>> Is it what you want to hear? Probably not. Are you free to disagree? Most
>> certainly. Will it matter? Probably not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Personally I use Pocket Plus ;)
>>
>> --
>> Sven
>> MVP - Mobile Devices
>> "Linea Recta" <mccm.vos@abc.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:45a80d0e$0$330$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
>> > "xTenn" <xTennRemoveThisPart@tds.net> schreef in bericht
>> > news:eEZuf1nNHHA.4172@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> >>
>> >> "Justin Brown - SYNACS" <jcbrown******.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1168627454.455687.209340@s34g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > Can I change this minimize behavior via a registry hack, or is this
>> >> > something I need to learn to live with?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> There are plenty of 3rd party apps (free "magic button", others) that
>> >> do
>> >> actually close an app when you click on the x. Also doing ctrl-Q will
>> > close
>> >> the app.
>> >>
>> >> But I also feel that it was shortsightedness on the part of the
>> >> developers
>> >> to not have the app close by default, since there are many 3rd party
>> >> apps
>> >> that use the device in ways that was not originally considered.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It's incomprehensible that one needs 3rd party software just to make an
>> > OS
>> > work normally. The way Windows Mobile 2003 "works" seems quite
>> > bizarre...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > (PDA novice)
>> > --
>> > regards,
>> >
>> > |\ /|
>> > | \/ |@rk
>> > \../
>> > \/os
>> >
>> > mccm dot vos at hccnet dot nl
>> > http://home.hccnet.nl/mccm.vos/
>> >
>> > ICQ 326628
>> >
>> >
>